Another Prom Story

Comments

1
Blue sequin gown? Fuck, I wouldn't let him go in that either. Sequins are so damn tacky!!

Why not a nice chiffon?
2
Little latin boy in drag, why are you crying?
3
And imagine — this is just another one of those silly affairs where pomp, circumstance, and costume make people's lives tough for a single night (and in the days leading thereto). Just imagine all the times the non-ceremonial events and the non-costumed are totally fucked over even more badly for coming out — particularly other trans kids — with hardly a word of notice for their circumstances.

Your obsession with proms, Dan, has become a bit old and a bit lazy.
4
@2, I think the quote was "little latin boy in a dress". Assuming we're talking about the same movie.
5
"School officials new he planned to come in a dress"

old knews.....
6
obviously this 19 year old has had too much time on his hands.....
7
I'm glad you posted this Dan.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. MLK.

Best wishes and good luck to you Omar. Remember, not everyone in your life will be a jerk.
8
Okay, the dress thing seems kinda tacky, but god damn do I want to kick his parents in the balls for a few hours...
9
The last two paragraphs of the story were my thoughts exactly:
Bonilla, who says Flanagan is a generally accepting place of gay students, hasn't indicated he plans to take any action against the school. But Gail Rolf of California's non-profit educational support service Project 10 told the Herald Bonilla might have a case.
"The question is, would they have suspended another student for the exact same behavior?'' she asked. "Because if not, that's a lawsuit right there."

The reporter spoke to "school spokesman" Nadine Drew. Why didn't the reporter ask that?
10
@9, I get the sense that the reporter's not really up to snuff like that. Points for writing the story at all, but it's really tabloid sloppy.
11
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/05/22/16…

Omar in his blue sequin dress.
12
Wait. The students VOTED for him. Some significant portion of them actually like him, or at least enjoy the thought of a guy in drag as the prom queen. What the hell is the adults' problem?
13
@11: Indeed. Definitely nothing little about him.
14
@12: Proms have this tendency to get the unders of adults bunched in a massive wad — whether it's Fundy McFundie at one end or Dan at the other.
15
it's a gorgeous dress. i want that dress.
16
I wore a pimpin' vest and a pair of Reebok Classics to my prom. Shame I didn't know I had the world's worst haircut, though. I remember standing up in the line with all the other senior superlatives and having the countess or whatever lean over and say, "oh, didn't you know my aunt was a hairdresser? She was giving out free prom haircuts."

OH THE PAIN, PROM WAS DEPRESSING.
17
7

tell us your kidding.....
18
3

cut Dan some slack-
when prom season is finally over we'll be reduced to pissing ourselves over 15 year old videos from WVa preachers.....
19
@16: YOU WERE DUCKY?!

@18: No. I plan not to. It might have been kinda nice to see him mention something about the 9-year-old trans kid in today's news who's being home-schooled now because the principal forced her to use the nurse's WC and banned her from the girls' toilets. A nine-year-old girl! Shiftier is how the superintendent rationalized this. Of course, Dan has no reason to legitimize this kid's situation because it's just not . . . legitimate to him. A gay boy electively wearing a dress to a prom somehow is. Right. OK.
20
@19: Did Ducky win "Most Popular" in a landslide? I think not.

I was just some queer in a vest and a bad haircut doing the frug to New Order.
21
@20: Not the point. Jon Cryer didn't have to win anything in a landslide to be a winner in the hearts of teenagers from that day and age.

And unlike Ducky, you were touched by the hand of God.

(Sorry, that was really hard to avoid.)
22
Why do these kids keep asking permission?

They get punished for being good kids and asking can I do this?

Back in the 70s when I was in High School...If we wanted wear something the school didn't like or attend with someone they didn't approve, we didn't ask. We just showed up and let it me a surprise for everyone.

23
@21: And yet he's TV's biggest loser because he's being dragged screaming through season after season of the world's worst sitcom.
24
Doesn't he know that cross-dressing and other experimental $hit (drugs, bi, ghey, lez, bondage, tats etc) are best saved for the college years?
25
@11: Wow, I seriously doubt that school had a hotter prom queen candidate.
26
@23: One-and-three-quarters men?
27
I noticed that all the emails on their website follow a pattern. It is fairly likely that the principal's email address is sharon.shaulis@browardschools.com...
28
Dear Teslsa,

We are not omniscient—you and me both.

I wasn't aware of the story about the nine-year-old trans kid being fucked with. You also can't say—not for certain—that the kid in the blue dress at the prom in Florida isn't trans. And the last time a trans kid being fucked with by his school came to my attention, I rallied Slog to raise nearly 7K for her, and got her and her entire family out of Fulton, Mississippi.

So, like, go fuck yourself and stuff.

Love,

Dan
29
@28: Oh, GURL.

Bravo, Dan, bravo.
30
28

Sorry Danny.
You rally the Trans hate, you're responsible.
$7000 of other people's money won't buy you off.
The West Virginia preacher rails against gays,
you rail against trannies.

At least he apologized.
31
I rail against trannies? Really? Cite?
32
This kind of shit really pisses me the fuck off. I went to a middle school in bum fuck nowhere Northern California, where my best friend's little sister was an out an open butch lesbian, and she never had any problems. The one time she had any problems with a substitute the other students came to her defense. At one of my high schools with a student body of about 300 two lebians went to prom together and nobody gave them any shit.. actually they were pretty popular at that school. and there were a few gay guys that came out and all anybody had to say was, "I knew it!" Maybe it's because it was still in California, but when I say middle of nowhere I mean it. I was raised on a ranch, my middle school was right next to a cattle ranch and that high school was 45 mins away from any kind of store.

I didn't figure out I was lesbian until after high school, but I know that if I had come out in school I would have been just fine. It breaks my heart that these kids have to go through this kind of shit. Just grrr...
33
He should move to Seattle. There they let bank robbery suspects out of jail to go to the prom.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/94623…

A little thing like coming in drag wouldn't be a problem, as long as he stopped to rob a convenience store or two along the way.

Waiter!

34
@28: I didn't mean to get so completely under your skin. I really wouldn't want to detract thirty seconds from your annoyance when that energy could be going to much more valiant matters as you so see fit.

Neither you nor I are omniscient, and that really was never the point here. But thank you for at last, uh, reporting how that fund-raising for Juin Baize went, despite letting it slide when it came up in SLOG discussions antecedent to this one here. If somehow I missed that memo, then please feel welcome to guide me toward the direction of that SLOG post and put me in my place. As for this thread, it is clear that you really have a thing for the prom.

On one level, quite touching. On another, quite trite — given how the right to a public education really is what matters for the gay or transsexual kid being hit hard. Somehow, pageantry and celebrity appear more important to you — that is, as tallied by what you choose to blog here. Maybe that's just a bad perception and you feel totally otherwise. What of Constance and Omar? A tough moment, sure, but at least they have their completed public education. At least their parents cannot say it's costing them dearly to have a gay or trans kid being pressed out of school. Let's not even discuss the Malawi couple, because that might be too much for one comment.

And really, the tail end of an old post — that is to say, this one here — is hardly the most productive way to engage in a citation match. That said, however, if you really want to go there, then we should dance (fwiw, I like tango, and I like to lead, but I'm always willing to take turns). I do love research and citation. I love peer review. These are cornerstones to what I do for a living. You wanna do it over a beer? I probably wouldn't object — especially if we're talking Elysian here.

But for tonight, I'll take your advice and go manually fuck myself. Thanks for reminding me!
35
31
from QUEERTY

"UPDATE: Ugh. Turns out Savage's entire post about McKenna's trans identity, according to the blog Pam's House Blend, was a ruse to incite hatred toward the AG. And now the story is destined to focus on Dan's TRANSPHOBIC attack — insulting McKenna as a disgusting trans politico, in the same fashion anti-LGBT politicians attack our kind — than McKenna's lawsuit.

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…"
36
from QUEERTY comments

"No. 1 · Dyssonance
Oh, I'm pissed.
Yes, he made it up. And your "update" doesn't do a service, it makes it worse.
Yeah, the lawsuit needs to be covered, but the whole trans lives as an insult thing — which he has done before on many occasions — it totally unacceptable.
Here, or anywhere. You might as well have reported the whole thing without crediting him — probably wise to do.
This is utterly unacceptable, and I'm personally hot for someone's hind end on a platter right now.

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…"
37
from QYEERTY comments

"No. 2 · Alleyne
Savage definitely made this up. McKenna was a decorated Eagle Scout. He would've had to have transitioned as a 6 year old to move up the ranks to become an Eagle Scout.
What this means is that Savage considers making up lies about trans indentity to be an appropriate way to draw attention to his disapproval of McKenna's politics. There's no "arguably" here, it's the definition of transphobia in action. McKenna may well be anti-LGBT, but that in itself is enough to call him out on. Why make up lies unless you consider trans identities to be something worth using as a *thing* rather than something real, meaningful and worthy of respect.
This is not Savage's first foray into transphobia, btw. He does it regularly, along with regular outbursts of misogyny and biphobia/bi-erasure. Savage doesn't respect any queer or gender identity except his own.

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…"
38
more QYEERTY comments

"No. 4 · missanthrope
"Savage doesn't respect any queer or gender identity except his own."
Quoted for truth. I've never figured out the appeal of this guy, he often goes into this territory (especially bi-erasure) in his column and is generally just clueless about how others might identify other than himself.
But anyways, if you do a google search you'll see that Savage has been pounding away at this lie for sometime now, so far that i've even found some reputable blogs that have repeated the whole "america's first transgender state AG" lie as a fact.
Bottom-line Savage is using someone's gender identity (even a false/percieved one) to attack their character for a political purpose. This should be as unacceptable as a someone person claiming else is gay as a personal attack, that's pretty much the equivilent here.
And queerty shouldn't be dismissive about the people who have a problem with this, the HCR repeal is a real issue, but Savage took the focus away from that when he decided to start telling lies to score political points. He should issue an apology. But I doubt we'll get one since he usually thinks he is beyond impunity."

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
39
more QYEERTY comments

No. 6 · Lia
I'd bet $100 this weedy Republican fella was born with a Y chromosome.
Not that I'd have any objections if he were a weedy Republican transgendered man. In fact, that would make me like him a little better.
So the question is: WTF, Dan Savage? Why use gender identity of all things as a smear, when someone isn't trans? If he were actually trans and Dan was trying to smear him for it, it would be even worse.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. I'm bisexual and I can recall many incidents where Dan has blithely stated that my sexual orientation doesn't exist. Dan's as out of step with queer reality as HRC is.

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
40
and more QYEERTY comments

No. 7 · jeffree
What was Dan Savage's point?? He's not commenting on the AG's actions or politics but spewing a lie about someones gender identity, like that it would be bad if the guy was Trans? Its a desparate move, a big FAIL & it means Dan is stooping to a new *low* if he can't stick to the real reasons the AG Mckenna is a enemy of lgbt rights.
I think Dan needs to apologise. Sooner than later. Bless Ms. Pam for calling Dan out, Sorry but he makes us all look bad when he distorts truth & misses the real issue. BAD DAN BAD!

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
41
yes.
more QYEERTY comments

No. 9 · Lynn
Dan Savage's use of a transphobic smear attack is the same sort of thing that used to be used against straight candidates, with opponents accusing them of being secretly gay or lesbian.
Honestly, if the article had been written by Michael Savage, I would understand. But Dan Savage should know better.

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
42
QYEERTY comment
re Dan's TRANSPHOBIC attack —

o. 14 · Kieran
Another example of how unbridled hatred often cause people to say and do things that are stupid and ultimately self-defeating.

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
43
disappointed reaction to Dan's TRANSPHOBIC attack —

"it only hurts our cause. While I admire Dan for the stands he has taken in the past gotta give him a huge fail for this one…………."

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
44
peeing on Dan's face....

"No. 22 · Drake
Who anointed Dan Savage to speak for the entire GLBT Community, when he is a sex entertainment writer who mainly writes about whips, leather, peeing on sex partners, etc? I'd prefer that we had someone less kinky as the "official face"."

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
45
Dan @28
"So, like, go fuck yourself and stuff."

Okay, so I'm coming a little late to this party (time diff and all) but re: your comments to Tesla, Dan: Not cool, not kind, and definitely not Canadian...I'm rethinking sending you those TimBits...
46
from QUEERTY-
"Dan is a Bigot"

No. 26 · Bill Perdue

As for Dan Savage, he's a Democrat.
What did anyone expect? That Democrats are against bigotry?
The Democrat and Republican parties are cesspools of bigotry. They gave us DADT and DOMA and gutted ENDA, all with gratefujl Republican support. Obama's "gawd's in the mix" galvanized the bigot vote and passed Prop 8. Etc.
Q. How does Savages trans baiting differ from Republican gay baiting.
A. It doesn't. Bigotry is bigotry.

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
47
@31 cont...

No. 27 · PaquitofromtheBlock
People like Savage sure help us dig our own graves…

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
48
@31

more from QUEERTY

"No. 29 · TheAwfulTruth
What can you expect from a columnist who every other week writes about poop or bizarre sex?"

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
49
@31

this is low.

"No. 30 · hardmannyc
Dan Savage has exactly one cause: promoting Dan Savage. Why do you think he adopted a child? For publicity."

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
50
@31

from QUEERTY

"No. 31 · RLS
Dan Savage cares about nothing more than promoting a gay white male agenda. I was totally over him for his borderline racist comments after prop 8 passed, so I'm not surprised about this. People like him are the problem, not the solution, and there are far too many like him."

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
51
@31

Boob weighs in:

No. 132 · boob
I think he took the joke too far; it'd be great if he apologizes, but Dan has had a history of being an asshole. If you don't like it, don't listen/read his blogs. He doesn't represent the gay community, so why are we treating him like he does?

Read more: http://www.queerty.com/dan-savages-super…
52
from gudbuy t'jane
a trans woman on gender, feminism, and glam rock (among other things)

Dan Savage’s transphobia, back again
MARCH 24, 2010
by gudbuytjane

Dan Savage has a long history of transphobic commentary in the advice column he writes for Seattle’s The Stranger. Yesterday he took his transphobia to a new level, mockingly suggesting that Washington state Attorney General Rob McKenna is trans (he’s not). In Savage’s world view being trans is so shameful it is something to slur right-wing politicians with.
I am sure Rob McKenna’s policies are worth criticism, but if that’s the case critique policy. Savage’s response weakens any real criticism of McKenna because the right can now point to this stupid diversion. Further, it fractures response to McKenna by alienating a segment of people who might agree but find mocking trans people to make a political point reprehensible. So Savage isn’t just transphobic, he’s a shitty political activist, too.

Past initial outrage what will the response be, I wonder? I’m expecting Savage and his supporters to dig in, that’s nothing new, but this is a hard point to gloss over for those trying to remain ‘impartial.’ I’ve heard a lot of lip service from cis allies over the years, but I’ve rarely seen them give up something they like consuming – I’ve had people flat out tell me they know Savage is transphobic but they’re going to read him anyway. The kind of transphobia Savage engaged in by making those comments about McKenna has real life implications for trans people. I wonder how many more passes he’ll get.
53
comments from from gudbuy t'jane

evmaroon PERMALINK
Time to turn out the lights on Dan’s writing career. He has no idea what kind of crap he creates with this sort of shit. As if the LGBT community isn’t fractured enough already.
54
comments from from gudbuy t'jane

Jessica Sideways PERMALINK
Ugh, I so hate Dan Savage, he’s such an ignorant, arrogant asshole.
55
comments from from gudbuy t'jane

Gina PERMALINK
Dan Savage, Michael Musto (Village Voice), & Daniel Kusner (Dallas Voice)… gay men who repeatedly objectify, ridicule and exploit trans women and their identities… got to go.
56
@31 cont...

comments from from gudbuy t'jane

Megan PERMALINK
I’m wondering just what it is about these smarmy little douchebags that apparently makes them so “edgy” that the alternative weeklies just can’t seem to publish enough of their drivel.
57
@31

comments from from gudbuy t'jane

Wendy Blackheart PERMALINK
Don’t forget biphobic too. Basically, he’s pretty fucking phobic.
58
more @31

comments from from gudbuy t'jane

sharav PERMALINK
He is ‘edgy’ because he started off as a drag queen, became very well known, and has his “Stranger” shtick.
59
HOT DIGGITY DAMN!
Alleged, get yourself to a hormone therapy lab and grow a pair.
And by a pair, I mean a pair of cerebral hemispheres. The brain stem alone will only get you so far in life.
60
more @31

comments from from gudbuy t'jane about Dan Savage, Transphobe at Large:

alexmac PERMALINK
Would anyone have some advice on questions to ask dan savage? He will be coming by my campus this month and I want to call him out then.

Megan PERMALINK
I’d advise just staying home…he’s got his insulated little privileged mindset, and I seriously don’t think that he’s willing to change it no matter what questions you might ask.

gudbuytjane PERMALINK
I remember that, and yeah, it’s so so tired. Now Savage is being an ass saying he’ll apologize if money is raised for some trans cause. It’s ridiculous.
gudbuytjane PERMALINK
Unless you can figure out the logic trap that will cause his privilege to explode, like an evil computer on the old Star Trek, then it’s pretty much pointless.

piny PERMALINK
I mean, really, is he saying that trans people need to pay to complain about transphobia?

gudbuytjane PERMALINK
@Piny: Here’s Savage making snark about apologizing.
" Let’s see what we can raise for a trans kid who’s still alive, shall we? (Oh, and folks who want me to apologize for this: Okay, I will—after we raise at least 2K for Juin and his family. Otherwise, meh, I’ll just keep hating on trans people like the raging anti-trans beegoat that I am.) “

Jess PERMALINK
I have a better idea: Why not stop making stupid comments and continue to raise money for trans causes?
61
@31

"Sam PERMALINK
I have no idea why Dan Savage is considered an LGBT icon when he proves time and time again to have nothing but contempt for the L, B, and T communities. One out of four doesn’t count!"
62
@31
more comments from from gudbuy t'jane about Dan Savage, Famous Transphobe:

"But where the root of the feeling that BitchPhD expressed – that Dan Savage expresses – comes from, is the certainty that there just is a “right way” for gender to be expressed. The mockery of boys with long hair for being “girlish” – or the mockery of gay men for taking it up the ass – is the same kind of mockery. Dan Savage is effectively joining forces with the homophobes by mocking a man for looking “trans”, just as BitchPhD last year was joining forces with the sexists for mocking Ann Coulter for looking “mannish” or being “a cunt”."
63
@31

This one is very good:

"EllieB PERMALINK
I stopped reading him ages ago because of his seriously gyno- and bi-phobic remarks…. then he had a change of heart and seemed to really try to not be horribly offensive to cis-women, lesbians, and bisexual folks. So I started perusing his column again.

aaaand then a couple years ago he started really turning on the transphobia and and I checked out again. He doesn’t seem particularly repentant on this issue. I’ll still listen in on his podcast now and again, but I can never get through a whole one… it’s like, everything’s going along swimmingly, he’s giving sound advice, and then something will come out of his mouth that’s just… off. Judgmental, or bigoted, or hurtful. Something fat-phobic, or transmisogynist. Even the way he’s been pushing non-monogamy squicks me out, and I’m poly! He keeps presenting non-monogamy as basically the one true way, and saying that most people in monogamous relationships are either unhappy or deluding themselves. Bullfuckingshit.

And then this… blog? Whatever it is. It’s just so godawful. It really, really shows that he just Doesn’t Get It when it comes to trans and gender issues. Or he just doesn’t care. Either way, ugh.

At least the comments section is overwhelmingly full of people calling him out on this shit."
64
Is it just me, or does "citation" mean more than just copy/pasting what other trolls say in other comment sections? ....cause if that's all it takes, I wasted WAY too much time on those papers I wrote.....
65
from a Savage fan:

Columnist Dan Savage raising money to reunite trans youth with family

March 26, 8:18 AM

Transgender & Transsexual Issues
Examiner.Com ATLANTA

Matt Kailey

"Author and sex-advice columnist Dan Savage is raising money to help a trans youth’s family relocate to be with the youth."

"Savage is considered to be transphobic by the trans community,..."
66
Kathy says:
March 24, 2010 at 2:45 am
But some of his best friends are transphobic.

Savage does have a history on this issue – and – if the commenter is to be believed – his unaknowlegded prejudices caused a hostile work environment. Something the company should consider addressing.
67
@31 from ENDAblog

Why There Can Be No Compromise On Inclusion of Trans People in ENDA: Gay Men

"Now, we all know that the Rhode Island Avenue Cesspool of Solmonesian Style digs up trans people from out of nowhere to create insta-trans-employees – but, HRC has a clear, albeit unstated (and, in fact, repeatedly denied), goal: total destruction of trans political viability.

(Yes, we do all know that; whether one is capable of admitting it is a different matter.)

But Dan Savage is a different creature.

He’s not a self-important, Wal-Mart-esque corporation.

He’s an individual – albeit one with a platform. And, I can’t say that don’t find a lot of his stuff interesting, funny, etc.

Of course, on a point of similarity with HRC, I can’t say I have the impression that he particularly gives a damn about whether trans people live or die.

However, the above-quoted piece from SLOG, would legitimize any opinion that anyone might form of him in that direction.

However, Savage does not come to this dispute with an unblemished reputation – hence the title of this post. (Seriously – would any trans person trust Dan Savage to evaluate him/her fairly?)

Savage not only does not come to this dispute with an unblemished reputation – he lacks a credible scenario.

And, as of right now, he should lack a job.

Enough is enough.

No more gay men making a living off of trans-anything.

Its time for a double ultimatum:

(1) Dan Savage should lay everything on the table regarding how he comes to justify USING trans existence (namely: PROVE what he’s said about McKenna) or he should be fired.

(2) Every LGB(T) rights organization that wants to be taken seriously as having anything credible to say about trans-anything (this means you, GLAAD; HRC? don’t even bother) must get behind the first prong of this ultimatum.

If Savage makes his case – that McKenna actually is a self-loathing FTM who is working to undermine trans people’s (and LGBs) ability to exist – I’ll be the first to apologize to him and I’ll hop on Savage’s anti-McKenna, fudgepackin’ train.

If Savage doesn’t?

He must go.
68
@31
more from ENDAblog

(ENDA DISTRACTION!!!!!)

Why Does Dan Savage Still Have a Job?
Well, in your heart, you know why.

He used trans-existence as just another tool to quasi-journalistically play with himself in public.

Had he done so with any racial – or even religious – category, he’d have been fired before his finger left the ‘enter’ key after submitting the thing for publication.

But trans-existence is fair game to play with.

In fact, I’m not sure I’d ever even heard the name Rob McKenna prior to Savage’s latest transphobic ejaculation.

But other people apparently had, such as these commenters at Queerty.
Lynn writes:

Dan Savage’s use of a transphobic smear attack is the same sort of thing that used to be used against straight candidates, with opponents accusing them of being secretly gay or lesbian.

Honestly, if the article had been written by Michael Savage, I would understand. But Dan Savage should know better.

Actually, it is his employer that should know better.

It should know better than to keep giving voice to – I’ll say it more succinctly than Lynn – a transphobic gay Michael Savage d/b/a/ Dan.

Why Does Dan Savage Still Have a Job?

Because its still okay for gay men to abuse trans people for fun, profit – and to sufficiently poison the cultural well so as to ensure that people like Dan Savage never have to compete with trans people on a level playing field.

Tell The Stranger to join the real world and to flush its savage turd.

Here’s an e-mail: editor@thestranger.com

Here’s a phone number: (206) 323-7101

The rest is up to you.

69
Holy crap. Last I looked, this had half the number of remarks. And that was less than two hours ago before I went to grab a bag of ice (heat wave in May when it was snowing just two weeks ago!?).

@64: Agreed. A citation should be nothing more than a reference to back an argument made in a paper. This anonymous Cmd-V diarrhoea character could do better the case if they actually formed a cohesive, cogent argument.

Also, to you Canuck, this came up on the poutine thread today: if Timmies started selling poutine alongside their sandwich/soup combo, what would this do to national sales? Discuss.
70
@31

Responses to “Why Does Dan Savage Still Have a Job?”@68

gudbuytjane says:
March 24, 2010 at 6:31 am
“Because its still okay for gay men to abuse trans people for fun, profit – and to sufficiently poison the cultural well so as to ensure that people like Dan Savage never have to compete with trans people on a level playing field.”

This is the elephant in the room, and whenever trans women bring it up we get trounced on. Look at the backlash to any criticism of cis gay male attitudes on trans people (and trans women specifically).

Thanks for this piece, it’s a good analysis.
71
@31

another Response to “Why Does Dan Savage Still Have a Job?”@68

Sean-Michael says:
March 25, 2010 at 9:39 am
Dan Savage has been saying transphobic and misogynistic things for a long time. Often against trans MEN (FtMs) who he obviously considers to be women. So he’s really insulting women in his mind, and finding this to be OK. Not sure why women everywhere haven’t stood up to his behavior by now. Perhaps they don’t bother reading his drivel. It is not the first time I walked away with a bitter taste in my mouth from Dan Savage articles.

In fact, years ago I took the advice of some of my mentors in the LGBT community and stopped reading his column and the zine/site it’s in/on after that. I advise everyone to do the same. Vote with your feet. And if you want to write in and ask them to fire him go for it. Just please take a breathe and remember your letter can do as much damage as good. If you write in during a moment of anger you may simply give them more ammunition. But if you write a thoughtful, well educated letter and do your research it may positively educated. You could even send in examples of the years of transphobic comments rather than just this one.

Being a man who happens to be trans wouldn’t be any more of an insult than being gay would in my book, but it’s a common gay male insult. Attitudes like this make it difficult to be out in the gay community as a trans man, and it’s sad to see so many popular gay zines and blogs perpetuating the hatred and misunderstandings.
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from TIGER BEATDOWN

Profiles In Douchery: Dan Savage

So, yes! This is apparently becoming a blog about people who write shitty things. Shitty things which make it to the Internet, no less! Even as the economy collapses, the douche industry booms: Ian Sloane, Aaron P. Taylor, and Former Tenured Professor of Molecular Biology Alexander MacPherson have all made vital contributions to the field. Yet, in our focus on these rising fuckwads, we must not forget the dipshits who have pioneered the art of Saying Embarrassingly Stupid Stuff on the Internet. When we look to these early-adopter dickweeds, we can see that one trailblazing young man has made endless and selfless contributions to douchery:

Behold Dan Savage: the Ur-Douche. Unlike these flash-in-the-pan douches, Dan Savage has been saying embarrasing shit for years and years and years. Behold! As he insists that bisexuals do not or should not exist!

Bud, a gay man dating a married bisexual man, was frustrated about having to share his “soulmate” with his soulmate’s wife… Under the circumstances, telling Bud to rule out bi guys and married men was sensible advice. Sorry, but avoiding bi guys is a good rule of thumb for gay men looking for long-term relationships.
Yes, Dan, and it is a little-known fact that all bisexual men are married to women. They come out of the womb that way! Crazy, huh? Here, Savage reflects sensitively on heteronormative prejudice:

Bi guys who want opposite sex partners are under tremendous pressure to stay closeted. And when a guy is closeted — as most bi guys are — he can’t really be there for his boyfriend, can he?
You know what encourages people to come out of the closet, Dan? Telling them that, if they do, no one will ever – or should ever – want to have sex with them again. It is just really, really, really, really helpful.

Here’s Dan admonishing a woman for saying the word “what” when her boyfriend brought up an extremely rare kink!

There the guy was, boned for you, and he was brave enough to put his desires out there, to make himself vulnerable (which is what the ladies are always saying they want, right?), and you lobbed the ol’ “What?!?” bomb at him and made him feel like a freak. Is it any wonder that he quickly moved on to “other things” and, one would hope, better sex partners?
The kink, in case you were interested, was inserting his nutsack into her vagina. I’ve been a sex educator. I’ve talked to people about sex – lots and lots of people, actually – and I’ve heard some pretty unusual stuff. I’ve never heard of that. In this particular case, a “what” is pretty much merited, if only so that you can figure out how that particular arrangement might work. Anyway, in the same column, Dan addresses a guy who might have gotten some poop on himself during anal sex with a lady (it would have to be imaginary poop, since this is the most obvious fakeout I’ve ever read, but whatever):

You did all the right things after that Spanish tramp shit on you… [she] owes [you] the courtesy of being appropriately mortified… I’d say she was blind drunk, utterly clueless, into shit, or all of the above. Whatever her major malfunction, SSBB, wipe her number from your phone’s memory.
So, for the record, straight ladies (and bisexual ladies, if you exist), the answers are (a) do what your male partner is into, or you are a terrible lay and a bad person, and (b) do what your male partner is into, or you are a terrible lay and a bad person. Oh, and for the record – dudes who want things their ladies don’t like are poor sad vulnerable flowers, whereas ladies who want things their dudes don’t like are tramps who should be ashamed of themselves.
Okay, so Dan Savage has issues with bisexuals and ladies. How about trans people? Here, he addresses a cisgender mom whose son refuses to speak to his other mom, a trans lady in the process of transition:

Children have a right to some stability and constancy from the adults in their lives. Perhaps I’m a transphobic bigot, but I honestly think waiting a measly 36 months to cut your dick is a sacrifice any father should be willing to make for his 15-year-old son. Call me old-fashioned.
Unfortunately, your ex wasn’t willing to make that sacrifice (selfish tranny!), or it never occurred to him to make that sacrifice (stupid tranny!)…. If your son can’t deal with having his dad/mom/whatever around right now, support him and tell his dad/mom/whatever to leave the two of you alone for the time being.

Wow. Male pronouns? Insisting that a trans person should just put off resolving her gender dysphoria, which routinely causes severe depression? Calling a trans person a “whatever”? Encouraging people to cut off contact with trans family members? I think we’ve hit the bottom of the barrel. I think this is as low as Dan Savage can possibly go.

But wait: have you seen what he writes to rape survivors?

I’m extremely sorry that you were raped, DRARS, although your baseless accusations of rape make me doubt you when you claim to be a survivor of rape. The feminist bloggers are going to accuse me of thought crimes: If a woman says she was raped then, by God, she was raped. (Tell it to the lacrosse team.) But if my reaction to your letter is a thought crime, I can only plead entrapment: I wouldn’t have had these illegal thoughts if you hadn’t sent me such a stupid letter in the first place… Finally, DRARS, I hereby withdraw my consent for you to read Savage Love. If you continue to read my column against my will, well, we all know what word to apply to your actions.
Oh. Well. OK, then.

So, maybe it’s foolish to have any expectations of Dan Savage. I certainly try not to! For example, when he posted his charming little screed about Prop 8 and black homophobia (which, apparently, is much more of a problem than queer white racism, because they couldn’t possibly be equally important problems, could they, we couldn’t possibly live in a country where most people are simultaneously privileged by some aspects of their identity and marginalized by others, leading to counter-productive and ugly divisions between communities) and it became one of the focal points in a trend of blaming the Prop 8 verdict on increased turnout by voters of color, like, of all the problems with homophobia and black voter disenfranchisement in this country, the real problem is that black people are voting, and this in turn offered social conservatives a further chance to spread homophobia by saying that all gay people were racist, and Dan Savage, who was in a unique position to object to this, given his huge and admiring readership and the fact that he was one of the first people to get major attention for these sentiments, refused to admit that there was anything wrong with what he’d written, well, I was… not surprised.

I was, however, impressed by the fact that directly before Savage went on Steven Colbert’s show, that piece magically disappeared! Yep: you can only find it on Google Cache now. His petulant rants and links to similarly race-blaming articles are still available on the Slog, however. Enjoy the piece that opens with “black and Latino voters drawn to the polls in California because they were excited about voting for Barack Obama boosted the ‘yes’ vote on Prop 8” and then explicitly denies that he’s placing blame on anyone! I know I won’t.

Anyway, I was impressed, because it occurs to me that this is the closest Dan Savage will ever get to an apology: denying that he’s said anything wrong in the first place. I mean, damn. This is a man who will call a rape survivor a rapist for daring to question his work. Being an utter coward and deleting his blog right before he’s in a position to be called out on it is actually kind of a step up.

3 Comments

JAYNATOPIA wrote:
great article, thanks for talking about his really crappy advice and opinions.

Friday, April 24, 2009 at 3:44 pm | Permalink
ANONYMOUS wrote:
Wow, what a dick. I feel bad for having laughed at him on The Colbert Report. If I had known about this I'd have puked instead.

Friday, June 5, 2009 at 1:42 am | Permalink
TOWANDA wrote:
On some subjects he is a complete dick, and in some areas he is dead wrong. I honestly thank you for pointing this out to me, because I know that I’m so used to agreeing with him that when he says something horrible I’m reluctant to admit that it was horrible. This was a good reminder that with Dan’s advice, as with anyone’s, I need to apply my own discretion and call out assholery when it happens.

Friday, May 14, 2010 at 8:50 pm | Permalink
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Uh, dear anonymous coward:

you need to fucking take a chill pill and sit back awhile. You're really not helping. You're even starting to annoy me.
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@31

from TIGER BEATDOWN

Profiles In Douchery: Dan Savage

Okay, so Dan Savage has issues with bisexuals and ladies. How about trans people? Here, he addresses a cisgender mom whose son refuses to speak to his other mom, a trans lady in the process of transition:

Children have a right to some stability and constancy from the adults in their lives. Perhaps I’m a transphobic bigot, but I honestly think waiting a measly 36 months to cut your dick is a sacrifice any father should be willing to make for his 15-year-old son. Call me old-fashioned.
Unfortunately, your ex wasn’t willing to make that sacrifice (selfish tranny!), or it never occurred to him to make that sacrifice (stupid tranny!)…. If your son can’t deal with having his dad/mom/whatever around right now, support him and tell his dad/mom/whatever to leave the two of you alone for the time being.

Wow. Male pronouns? Insisting that a trans person should just put off resolving her gender dysphoria, which routinely causes severe depression? Calling a trans person a “whatever”? Encouraging people to cut off contact with trans family members? I think we’ve hit the bottom of the barrel. I think this is as low as Dan Savage can possibly go.
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if you're feeling cranky maybe you should turn in early...
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@31

response to @ 72

"ANONYMOUS wrote:
Wow, what a dick. I feel bad for having laughed at him on The Colbert Report. If I had known about this I'd have puked instead."
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@74: Jesus christ, you fucking brick, would you mind just shutting the fuck up? You're so not helping your case here, much less anyone else's. How bad? You're almost pushing me to defend Dan just a little bit by saying back the hell off. If you can't formulate your case in your own words — rather than plagiarizing comments from interblogs — then you really don't have a voice in this. "Quoting" other intarblogmenters willy-nilly doesn't really say anything.
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from TransGriot

Dan Savage's Transphobic Azz Strikes Again

TransGriot Note: A wonderful post from my brilliant sis Renee at Womanist Musings. And no sis, you aren't alone in your observation that Savage is a (you name the phobic) jerk.

Well, Dan Savage is a winner isn’t he? Is there a group of people that he is unwilling to verbally assault and “other,” in order to assert his undeserved privilege? It seems that for Savage, the best way to attack someone, is to suggest that they are trans, even when the opposite is true.

Really Savage? You’re going to take something that is so incredibly serious and then make tongue in cheek statements. If he did not have a history of making transphobic commentary, perhaps I could believe that he simply failed to do the proper research, but his own history convicts him.

When dealing with a conservative, there are plenty of ways that you can be critical, only someone drunk on privilege decides that the best course of events is to attack a marginalized group. When we consider that the gay community has a history of throwing the trans community under the bus, his commentary is truly problematic. Dan Savage does not speak for all gay men; however, his extremely high profile suggests that many continue to consider his views to be of great importance, though he has a history of making racist, abelist and transphobic comments.

I really think that Dan Savage needs a huge cup of STFU. Until he begins to recognize his various privileges (and yes, gay men can still be privileged), he is doing far more harm to his community than good. When you throw your allies under the bus, and taunt them cruelly, it makes people that much more reluctant to stand up and fight when you are being abused, because we wonder if we are next in the line of fire.

I don’t care if Dan Savage is your gay super hero with a capitol G; if the man is being abelist, racist and transphobic, perhaps your definition of hero needs to be examined. How many times have marginalized groups suggested, that when you fail to take an intersectional approach to organizing, we all suffer? Only a man like Savage who is White, male, class privileged and cisgender could fail to see that his, I’m just like you approach to advocacy is damaging. No movement for civil rights has ever been successful without allies, and yet people like Savage continue to believe that they can just throw people under the bus, while minimizing their humanity and then demand that they come to bat for you as needed.

So, I am just going to say it: The man is not amusing or enlightening; he is cruel. As long as he continues to sit in judgment of others and to perpetuate a harmful hierarchy of bodies, he has no business sitting in judgment of anyone. Glass houses Savage, perhaps it’s time you discover that you live in one.
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response to 22222222222222@78

"womanistmusings101p · 7 weeks ago
Hey sis thanks for cross posting this. The more people that realize that Savage is an ass "
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response to @78

"bialogue · 7 weeks ago
Savage is also biphobic and is one of the most vocal proponents of the bizarre "Bisexual people don't actually exist" theories, thereby going a long way to prove the truism that "a bigot is a bigot is a bigot". And also that a person whose mental health issues make him prone to sweeping pronouncements of hatred about various "groups" of people is most likely harboring an entire host of other unfortunate and wacky prejudices that will inevitably reveal themselves over time."
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@69 Tesla....as someone who was FREAKED RIGHT OUT the first time a waitress asked if I wanted gravy on my fries after I moved to the Great White North (what?? you guys have something against ketchup? that just goes on KD? what?) I'm not sure how poutine would go over in Alberta, what with the whole xenophobic-Quebec thing we do so well there. For me, I just see it as another way to get MORE badly needed trans-fats into my diet, as the crullers and iced caps can only go so far saturated-fat-wise. So, yes, bring it ON, pass the curds and gravy!!
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womanistmusings101p · 8 weeks ago
I didn't even now about that hot mess. The man routinely says comments that are absolutely horrific and yet he NEVER apologizes. At this point I have to say an apology would be pretty meaningless because he is a bumptious bigoted prick but it sickens me to know that so many consider him to be a hero.
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@31

Knightgee · 8 weeks ago
I used to be shocked at the number of gay men and women who would routinely spout transphobic, biphobic, misogynistic, racist, ablesit, etc. crap without displaying any sense of self-awareness or commiseration with these people they so quickly condemn. I like to use Dan Savage as my reminder that marginalized bodies can still engage in the same traditions of othering and marginalization that they themselves have been victims of. I've never considered him to be anything other than a jerk capitalizing on his status as a gay man to get away with saying bigoted garbage and I;m honestly baffled as to how he's anyone's "hero".
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two words- Mi Dol
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@81: Wow. I've know Albertanaho has a hate-on for Québec (even as it wishes every night before it goes to sleep that it could have the political sway Québec has at the federal level), but I didn't know they'd have anything against any product involving beef gravy. I mean, you can go to a BK there and get the world's worst poutine, so it's not like impossible to find, per se. Yeah. Timmies would rule the universe if they added poutine.

My first "wtf" fries moment in Canada — the first night I was in country in the 1990s — was when I went to a Perkins (so obviously this must mean southern Ontario, hmmm). They brought out cider vinegar instead of ketchup. I know I looked so confused that night. And even though memories of that KitH sketch stick with me — where the two uni-aged bachelors win a lifetime supply of KD, then win a lifetime supply of ketchup, and then win a lifetime supply of tapeworms — I just don't put ketchup in my KD. I do, however, put a ton of other stuff in KD.

Also, PCWC (Prez Choice white cheddar, that is) beats Kraft at its own game.
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@85: Ah, I see you're a slice of dick cheese, too.
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@81: P.S. I'll say it once more, but this time with feeling: chocolate-dipped cruller. It's extremely rare in the wild, but it does exist. I have eaten the wonder that is the chocolate-dipped cruller.
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@31

response tp @88

Lisa Spangenberg · 8 weeks ago
It's not OK. It really is not. It's not OK for a Jew to call another Jew a kike; it never has been, and never will be. And it's very very clear from the context that Savage is using transgendered and fag as negatives, as terms of approbation. Which suggest not only that he has issues with self-loathing and hypocrisy, but that his vocabulary is sadly lacking.

You call yourself an advocate and a writer Mr. Savage? You're not acting like either.
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ditto @90

Adam · 8 weeks ago
Iam so disappointed at Dan. Some one I have always looked up. Now he is in the same track as people that tell all these lies about us. I know that many times when the rain drop hits the stone, eventually makes a hole. No need to be an asshole in how we conduct ourselves when the world is watching. Dan can you not be an asshole. Save it for ur partner or your phyco analyst...Please!!!
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good nite, dear.
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Aw, come on, Telsa, don't be this guy. Just leave unregistered comments turned off. And tell me more about this chocolate-dipped cruller...

@ 81 - Ketchup on macaroni and cheese? That ain't right. That just ain't right.
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Direct second of Ms. Anne, above. The level of conversation here so elevated since I turned off unregistered comments. Plus, chocolate cruller.

Telsa: hear what you're saying. We all pick causes near & dear to our hearts. Some part of Dan might be overly, sentimentally, touched by the prom. It's an iconic event & I'm not surprised some parts of the country are being tripped up by it as more young people come out. Good's getting done in the community by attention being brought to homophobia.

Ehhh, do I pick on Dan via comments for the anti-bi thing, or the (not always wrong) fatphobia? Sure. ;) We'd all like it if our favorite writers were only into our own personal issues, right? (Said the chubby bi girl.) Then I read more about boys in dresses & the generally excellent sex advice & that damn Savage pulls me back in.

It's prom season. These stories will increase in frequency until the bonehead school admins age out.
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Gah, second sentence should read: "The level of conversation here IS so elevated since I turned off unregistered comments."

Me edit post some day. Edit good.
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Also, on a substantive note @ 34 - First, I honestly think the prom thing has just been an interesting trend as of late, and probably a product of more and more students being comfortable coming out in high school. Surely that's something to be encouraged.

Second, I'd argue that, given the (perhaps unwarranted) importance teenagers place on prom, disallowing a kid from going to prom for such ridiculous reasons really does poison the educational environment. Not only that, but it's school-sanctioned hostility against someone because of their sexual orientation (and possibly gender identity? My guess is the kid isn't trans, but that's just a guess). That is toxic, and for many that makes it damn near impossible to focus on studying as finals approach. Perhaps that impact is minimized by the fact that prom takes place at the tail end of senior year. But a right to public education runs straight through the end of 12th grade.

More than that, it sets up a truly distressing precedent: that it's okay for public schools to single out and harass gay students at their discretion. Is that really the kind of environment we want to foster? And I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again--sure, being trans and being gay are two very different things, but the homophobes and transphobes are largely drawn from the same pool. Any school officials that feel safe discriminating against gay/bi kids are also going to be encouraged to discriminate against trans kids.

In any event, being denied one of the defining moments of high school--even if that moment isn't strictly educational--strikes me as more than trivial. I mean, walking at your graduation is purely ceremonial as well--it's technically after you've already graduated, you don't even have to show up to get your degree--but surely being barred from walking at your graduation would also be pretty traumatic.

(For what it's worth, I do think the "go fuck yourself" was uncalled for.)
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CHOCOLATE CRULLER WANT NOM NOM NOM GORRRR...CRULLER FOOD NOM WANT WANT!!!!!!!
Now that that's out of my system32:
Malt vinegar, barbeque sauce, ketchup, cheese sauce, and chili are what belong on fries. Gravy is a little out there, but I'd try it.

@HOLY FUCK, GET A LIFE, TOO MANY POSTS TO COUNT: Alleged, we know that there are people out there who think that Dan Savage hates trans people. There are people out there who think that Jews have horns. There are people out there who think that the moon landings were faked (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUI36tPKD…). There are people out there who think that Obama is the Antichrist.
The point is, you can find a few yahoos who will say anything. Just because some people have an opinion doesn't make their opinion God's own truth.

@95: "Me post pretty some day"?
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I read this with unregistered comments off. It doesn't make much sense. Off to bed now.
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@93: xkcd is the greatest. Point well made. Still, telling off a crazy brick — that is, a scary-bad tranny — has its moment of catharsis. They are a virus. That was what our anonymous commenter was.

It was found in a Timmies box, like the boxes of 24 your boss brings the department when they get a promotion and their options can be cashed in. I happened to be standing there when the box opened; that specific doughnut radiated with light and voices from the heavens chorused. I didn't know a pastry could do that.
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@94: Continuing from @93, I understand what you're saying.

I'm not really so interested by a Dan or another person taking up causes near and dear to them so much as I am the manner by which one cause assumes such a magnanimous placement in his recurring conversations. In a word, sway.

Perhaps more to the point, it's not so much his mention of one topic over another that gets really old. Rather, it's the backhandedness, really subtle p-a shit, and editorializing (in the inclusion or exclusion of content more so than commentary) he advances regularly which is received as a slow-burn browbeating on something for which he holds contempt. Unless you make out what he remarks on how he sees a person like you (obviously, not you personally), then you might miss it. This is why one party will challenge Dan's backhandedness on being overweight while others won't notice a thing until then.

Personally, it's that Dan uses a billy club on topics he raises relating to non-cissexual people when, if he must use anything, it should be a lot more surgically precise than that. Use a carving knife, not a meat tenderizer. People who beat homos with the same deadening blows to also hit paedophiles and zoophiles use blunt-force like this. Dan does this when he conflates scary transgenders (like Donned Milo) with people of a transsexual history whose connections (or ability to relate) with those harmful people is entirely void. I get upset the same way he does when someone associates his being gay with a sketchy youth pastor or dodgy Catholic priest. It's the discourse that does the harm.

On this, Dan is very much out of his league, but pretends not to be. That's where this harm is caused. He knows that people do read, people do comment, but people don't always know the context — much like he really doesn't. He also can't dismiss this, because he knows his audience expects him to raise consciousness on sexual clarity generally. So he's sort of stuck by an Occam's razor: he placed himself as one of the most outspoken queers in the U.S., for Gen X (or Y), and for the media world. Thus, what he says carries with it a tremendous sway now. On the other, that placement means that whatever he says will come under closer inspection and greater heat. He's no dumb-dumb — although at times, not the wisest, either. But he know what he feels about anyone who renders colicky his Utopian world view, and he makes it known.

It sort of goes with the territory to hear out anyone who can cogently engage what he says (or doesn't say) to keep him in check. Not only does it remind him how many people do take to heart the crap and the gold he says, especially in the small towns (SL wouldn't be where it was today if no one gave a shit what he said), but also how in his lofty place as a voice that gets heard, he can't just spin off in his own unfettered direction without seriously moderating his tone lest he alienate his audience (revenue) base. When he's called out for going over that line, he grouses and retreats.
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@95: I made the mistake of clicking on unregistered comments here because I fell for the vomit-splosion of how many had showed up so quickly. That's when I saw how it was a problem child/man.
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@96: It's really more than telling a nine-year-old child that she can't use the school toilet or even enrol in that school which seems so much more brutal than the distraction of an end-of-school ceremony. These days, lesbian and gay kids are no longer liable to face each of these conditions — that is, denied school or access to the facilities. Trans children are. All, however, face potential bodily harm.

What makes this so much worse is when a superintendent or principal argues that by keeping the kid away from the school (Juin Baize or this nine-year-old), they're doing it "for their protection", what they're really saying is that they're too disinclined to raise the bar of peer and pedagogical decency to make it safe and inviting for every student qualified to attend a public school.

That message, when its intended recipient is the 9 or 16 year-old, is so, so damaging to one's future. It ricochets into what life decisions that kid may or may not take (i.e., medical school or working in pink collar hell forever). So that really comes down to the rubric of why one (prom prohibitions and cock-blocks) seems worse than another (being denied from school or its facilities altogether). But then again, I'm speaking as someone who was affected the way these kids have been affected, and it took me well north of a decade following those experiences to get my scholarly direction back onto a path that was derailed at sixteen.