SL Letter of the Day: Lots of Catholic Girls LOVE Sex

Comments

1
Yes Dan, she was Catholic before they signed the contract and Catholics have very specific and open sexual restrictions so sorry, but that's the deal. No?

If sexual deprivation was a kink- and I think that it is- then who is depriving who of the contractual agreement?

All sex all the time, no matter what? Homey signed a contract.
2
It's okay to go ahead and fuck the guys you hint about too.

Wasn't there some 70s chestnut about Catholic girls? Argh, it came to me - "Only the Good Die Young". Billy Joel, how embarrassing.
3
Her pussy is slammed shut! Go have a good time. But first, make sure you document her refusal to have sex. Either by demanding she go to counseling or telling her priest to set her straight.
4
I think he could get an annulment if they were married in the Church.
5
Come on! Catholic girls are always getting pregnant in high school, at least at my high school. This situation reminds me of "Far from Heaven." He should watch it with his wife.

Or his wife may have a low sex drive problem, maybe she could see her doctor. Basically, I agree with Dan though.
6
LOL, your take on marriage counseling was funny and pretty accurate.

And even if they found a counselor who focused on what the woman is bringing to this problem (such counselors do exist), that counselor would reach the same conclusion you do - doesn't matter what this guy does, she isn't going to fuck him.

But, Dan, I gotta disagree on whether they should stay married. It's only a matter of time before these two get divorced, so they should split up NOW before their lives get any more enmeshed.
7
Oh boy, grab the popcorn and sit back, because this is gonna be a good one.

Dan's right, of course - he has a right to expect sex in his marriage. And get it. And to go elsewhere for it if he's not getting it. But I'm sure there will be a hundred people here who are somehow going to try to turn this into his problem.
8
@1 Ah, trolling.

Anyway.

I agree; fuck that noise. Go have sex elsewhere and don't feel an ounce of regret. I don't think it's fair that our culture implies that men are villainous for wanting to fuck their wives. This guy comes across as a great guy (faithful to a fault), but he'll be seen as the bad guy if anyone finds out about it. Ridiculous.
9
I think Dan's advice is spot on, unless of course there are reasons for the asexuality (as per comment 5, other mental health issues (was she molested as a child?), or a number of other reasons which should be ruled out. But the wife needs to be proactive about this if she wants to save the marriage.
10
that's an astonishingly ANGRY response. maybe you're just having a rough day, or this guy hit a nerve somehow. but a) it's not your wife's job to have sex with you, and b) it's not ok to assume you can fool around without your partner's knowledge or consent.

i get that you're a big advocate of open relationships, and good for you, but only when both partners are on board. telling this guy, point blank, to "fuck other women, as many as you want! that's not cheating!" is straight up bullshit and you know it.
11
"With the help of a good counselor your wife will never run out of things you're doing wrong."

FTW
12
I think due diligence requires SMILE to at least lay all this out for his wife whether she wants to listen or not before he just fucks off and, well, fucks. "My needs aren't getting met, and this is not what I signed up for, so I am going to get them met elsewhere if you're not interested."

If she's avoiding the subject out of guilt or embarrassment, a good swift verbal kick in the ass might bring her around enough for her to start working on it. Maybe? I hope?
13
Does anyone think that maybe the weight loss is linked here? Maybe she found the "bigger" version of her husband sexy, but just can't find herself attracted to the slimmed down model?
14
Really? He really, really believes he can't find a more "beautiful" woman out there who won't lie to him and who wants to fuck him AND talk to him? Why the hell do you want to stay married someone who bald-faced lied to you?

Just get the fuck out of there. I could sympathize if you brought in external factors that compelled you to stay, but otherwise ... why? Oh, why? This is a big hypothetical, but what if she did find out? What if she freaked out? What if she demanded a divorce, with all the blame on your "infidelity"? Is that worth staying married to a beautiful woman who clearly prioritizes her own beliefs above promises made to her husband?

I mean, fine, yes, morally, I think you've got the go-ahead to fuck around. But I, for one, can't see why you can't just leave her and find someone who wants to be your wife AND fuck-partner.
15
@10
'it's not your wife's job to have sex with you'
huh ? whaa ?
16
i think they should stay married for 40 years and then split up
17
@10: "it's not your wife's job to have sex with you"

I absolutely disagree. It is your spouse's obligation to have sex with you. Not at the drop of a hat, obviously, but to make reasonable efforts to fulfill your marital duties. Humans are hard-wired to want sex, just like they're hard-wired to eat, breathe, and be social. If you're going to insist that your spouse fuck only you, then you have a duty to make good efforts to fulfill your spouse's sexual needs, or to let them get those needs met elsewhere.

The key to all of this is reasonable efforts. You don't have to have sex whenever your spouse snaps his or her fingers, but you should make an honest effort to keep them well-fucked. Refusing to have any sex, and refusing to take any steps to fix that, is not "reasonable."
18
@15 yeah. "job." sure, it's nice, and a lot of people like it, but you both need to be on the same page. period. this guy knew what he was getting into. maybe he was lied to, but that is a reason to leave, not a reason to cheat.

if you aren't getting what you want, be a man about it and leave your wife. you can't have it both ways. not unless she's fully aware and supportive of your extracurricular activites.
19
@10, "it's not your wife's job to have sex with you"?

Really? You don't think that a sexual relationship is kind of implicit in marriage - to say nothing of a situation like this where they explicitly discussed it?
20
I absolutely agree with Dan on this one!
If the wife isn't feeding you at home, she has no cause to get angry if you eat out.

I know someone in a relationship like this. I knew her before he did. Now he confides to his friends he practically has to beg for sex. When I knew her, no one was doing much begging.
21
@18..see @ 17
..and yes i'm way to lazy to argue about this.
22
I'm sure Dan's ANGRY because he gets a gazillion letters a day from guys whose wives don't think sex is part of a marriage. If there's any bullshit going on here, @10, it's that attitude.
23
@10 I think you missed the point. Depriving someone of sex for the rest of their lives is not only not a good thing to do it's also (most importantly) not sustainable. This isn't about pushing an open relationship just for the sake of it. He asked how he can stay married to her and the only way that can happen is to have sex elsewhere. It's either that or a life that is sure to be include more and more bitterness or divorce.

"a) it's not your wife's job to have sex with you"

I take issue with that. I absolutely do think it's part of my job to have sex with my wife. Not on demand at all times in all situations but there's got to be SOME attempt to meet her needs; even if there's times that I'm not really in the mood. That's part of what (monogamous) marriage is, you saying "I want to be the only sex partner that you have from now until the end" and if that's the case then you need to make a good faith effort to do what's going to be fulfilling for you partner sexually.
24
@10--fucking your spouse IS your job! You want monogamy in your marriage? Then you meet your partner's needs, especially the sexual needs. If my ex-husband hadn't wanted to have sex with me, we wouldn't have lasted even half as long as we did. If sex isn't "important enough" to a person to be willing to having it regularly with their spouse (and not begrudgingly, making it a miserable experience for both of you), then you shouldn't care if your spouse gets it somewhere else.

It goes back to something Dan has said before--asexual people shouldn't marry sexual people. It's not fair to do that to someone. If you know you can't meet your partner's main needs, you should be honest about it before the ceremony.

This girl lied to this man about how she was going to behave in the marriage. Not a strong base to build upon. DTMFA.
25
@15 iknowirght? Isn't that like, exactly part of the job description? Inasmuch as you can divorce someone for being unwilling or unable to consummate the damn thing?
26
@10

It may not be her job to have sex with the man, but you might say it is her responsibility, on the grounds of her promises and that the vast majority of people seeking long-term romantic relationships are also looking to have their libidos satisfied; should she have wanted a sexless marriage she could have found many other people more than willing to oblige. That said, it's not my fucking job to do tons of the shit I do every day in order to make loved ones happy, but I do it out of a sense of responsibility, even when I may be rather unmotivated; I often even have sex, even when feeling profoundly unmotivated, for the good of the relationship. We cannot always be in the mood simultaneous with our loved ones.

The wife in question, like many other women in her position, treats marriage as a game to be won for the rewards of a debased and apathetic culture; her life would be incomplete without a husband, even if an unloving or unloved husband; hers is the very essence of a narcissist.

With rights come responsibilities; everyone always seems to forget their responsibilities once they've received their entitlements. A relationship is a lot of hard work, just as all things worth pursuing.
27
i guess my real problem here is this: "All you're obligated to do now is tell your wife that you're not going to pester her about sex anymore because you'll be getting your sexual needs met elsewhere." that's just about the angriest most passive aggressive bullshit i've read in a while.

i'm allllllll for sex, and i do believe it's implicit in marriage. i'm not sticking up for the wife here. i'm sticking up for the husband's right to walk out the door, not to be a cheater for the rest of his life. if you don't like your marriage, get out. don't try and have it both ways.
28
All catholics and other christians should read this book-

The Christian Delusion

It is the most systematic and definitive debunking of christianity.
29
"ingest your pussy"? eww.
30
The only women I've known who hate sex have some sort of traumatic past. I'm extremely curious as to why else men or women turn down sex with their partners on a regular basis (or common reasons, at least).
31
I think the point is we invented divorce for a reason. All this guy is doing is making up his own "reasons" for not leaving -- he doesn't cite anything beyond his own desire to stay married to this woman, which is kind of flimsy compared to the previous cases we've seen that called for cheating. No kids, no incurable medical conditions on either side, nothing.

This guy says he *wants* to be a "faithful husband." Yeah, the way you do that, sir? Leave this woman, because you owe her nothing at this point, and find another that loves you, will fuck you, and gives you a reason to be loyal.
32
@27, Funny, my problem was that he buried the main point. Dan starts by saying "go out and fuck around," and then buries in the middle of a paragraph the part about how you should tell her how serious this is, and what you intend to do about it if nothing changes. My concern is that lots of guys hear the first part (if I'm not satisfied with the sex in my marriage, I get to go outside it), and miss the important part -- talk to her about your needs and how seriously you take them!
33
Grounds for annulment in the Catholic Church

* Most annulments are based on canon 1095, psychological reasons. These include a wide range of factors. Some of them may be misrepresentation or fraud (concealing the truth about capacity or desire to have children for example, or about an preexisting marriage, drug addiction, felony convictions, sexual preference or having reached the age of consent)

* Refusal or inability to consummate the marriage (inability or refusal to have sex)

* Bigamy, incest (being married to someone else, or close relatives)

* Duress (being forced or coerced into marriage against one's will or serious external pressure, for example a pregnancy)

* Mental incapacity (considered unable to understand the nature and expectations of marriage)

* Lack of knowledge or understanding of the full implications of marriage as a life-long commitment in faithfulness and love, with priority to spouse and children.

* Psychological inability to live the marriage commitment as described above.

* Illegal "Form of Marriage" (ceremony was not performed according to Catholic canon law)

* One/both partners was under the influence of drugs, or addicted to a chemical substance.

I'd be looking at the second bullet and talking to a priest (or canon lawyer) and a counselor -- for yourself if she won't go. Everyone is entitled to a satisfactory (if not entirely fulfilling sex life). For a spouse to deny you that basic, life-affirming good is grounds for breaking up. If she doesn't want to end the marriage, it's only fair that you have the dispensation to take care of your needs outside your shared bed.

The fact that you haven't cheated yet, have asked to get into couples counseling, are ready to maintain emotional and financial fidelity really puts the burden on her to do something. If not, she's unfairly and immaturely forced you into the position of having to take action yourself, even if it means the end of the marriage.
34
Spoiler alert, life isn't as simple as you make it out to be. There's more than sex involved -- which is why it is difficult for him to leave. Ah, if only things were as simple as you paint them -- 'you don't like it? just leave!' So many wives were told that line, too, with only sad smiles as a reaction. Yet another one who 'doesn't get it'.

In principle, I think his wife should agree. In fact, she should be sorry that he's suffering (since living without sex is suffering -- I hope you'll agree with that) and she's not helping. The humane thing to do would be to be fully supportive of her husband's sexual escapades. But maybe she'll demand that he continue suffering -- because, you know, sex is supposed to symbolize love, I won't give it to you but if you get it from others it means you 'don't love me' (but if I don't give it to you, it doesn't mean I don't 'love you'...)

In the end, spoiler, it's up to them to decide. In a perfect world, he might take your suggestion and leave his wife, no matter how many tears she sheds because of that. Maybe he should be as heartless as you suggest. But even Rhett Butler had to go through a lot before he could do that to Scarlett. What makes you think he could do better -- that, without knowing what kind of situation exists between them?
35
@27:

All Dan's statement is doing is giving the wife an option. She can:

1. Accept that her husband's need for sex is legitimate and try to fuck him.
2. Accept that her husband's need for sex is legitimate and let him fuck other people.
3. Divorce him.

If he walks-- which I think he should given the absence of kids-- then he's essentially making the choice for her. I don't see how it's passive-aggressive to lay her options on the table and tell her to pick one.
36
Spoiler: If his wife is not having sex with him, has never had sex with him, and will never have sex with him, HE'S NOT CHEATING!!! Get it? You can only sexually cheat on someone you have a sexual relationship with.
37
Dan, I love you.
38
@27 (Gloria), though I agree with you in principle, I will say that this man may indeed have reasons to stay with her that go beyond sex. Not everything is sex, after all. I'm not saying I know positively that cheating would be better for him (and for his wife) than leaving -- who knows? I just want to leave the posibilities open.
39
@34, 38: You say that leaving her could be "heartless," but if she values fidelity and monogamy as much as she probably does given her faith, then cheating on her is just as heartless, even if on his terms, it's fully warranted. She'd be hurt no matter his reasons.

I don't buy that a person could be so special that she can lie to you and prioritize herself over your very reasonable, basic, human needs. I just don't. A person is special because she's open to you, wants to know what you want from her, is willing to talk, recognizes a relationship is about two people (or more, as the case may be), etc.

Oh, I agree not everything is sex -- but her refusal to have sex is well *beyond* the issue of sex. It says volumes about her as a partner, her ethics about truth and honesty, her ability to communicate, her respect for him as a husband and her lover. Those are many issues beyond sex.
40
I'm a little surprised here. When a sexual relationship isn't working, sometimes you recommend an open relationship; sometimes you recommend DTMFA.

I suppose there are grey areas, but this seems to fall more on the side of DTMFA.

They've been married 5 years, not 20. No kids. SMILE seems to want to be a good guy and stick with it, but really, I don't see why. You are right: if she's never had sex with him, either before they were married or in the past 5 years, she never will. I don't know if she's a lesbian, or was sexually traumatized as a child, or she just thinks he's ugly. Whatever. It ain't happening and it never will. Other than trying to be a nice guy, I can't see any reason to stay with her.

DTMFA
41
Oh I call bullshit on this letter. BULLSHIT! has been called.

S.M.I.L.E.??? Come on....
42
I'm with the camp that believes he needs to fully, explicitly lay this out there for her before he runs out and has any extramarital sex. We don't know the extent to which he's tried to talk to her about it, we don't know WHY she's not having sex with him (seriously, I can't imagine anybody never wanting to have sex, ever - it seems like there must be something else going on), we don't know if she really understands the ramifications of her refusal to fully participate in her marriage. I say, ultimatum first, and then mad fucking everybody if that doesn't work. Shit, he's been waiting this long, he can wait a few more weeks while he gives her one last chance.
43
Unless his wife agrees to an open relationship, it is terribly destructive advice to justify an affair. It is only fair for SMILE to inform his wife of his intent to seek relations elsewhere, outside the confines of marriage. What else are vows for? I understand the sexuality is of paramount importance to marriage. No contest. However, unless an open relationship is mutually embraced, extramarital relations remain in the realm of an affair.

44
This is the story of my first marriage. DTMFA
45
I made up his sign off.
46
He wasn't asking, but I suspect the wife has some serious baggage from her earlier life, like rape or molestation. It might be worth one conversation to find out before pulling the adultery or divorce ripcord. I doubt this is a Catholicism-related issue, since it's about sex and no alterboys are involved...
47
My first thought was: define "NEVER," -- and pictured that scene from "Annie Hall." Never as in NEVER even not even once, or never as in "not as much as I would like," because the two are very different.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for the guy. It's not like she turned it off when they got married. If it is genuinely a need for him now it was when they were dating, too. They only thing that seems to have changed is he got the itch for another woman, and lordy have mercy she wants him, too! Or at least she said so when it was nice and safe and she was going to say no anyway, which sounds a lot like what the wife did.

I say put up or shut up. If the marriage is worth sacrificing for sex, then get a divorce now while there are no kids. This notion that he gets to keep his trophy wife and have a fantasy that he's going to get lots of hot NSA on the side will just be a future letter about how he can't get any outside his marriage either.
48
I feel so sorry for the guy who wrote this. He must be one of the most patient people on the planet, since he's apparently repeatedly put up with her "clamming up" when he tries to talk about this very important subject. I would lose it (not in a violent way, obviously!). How can she not see that she's single-handedly jeopardizing her marriage? It sounds like she went into marriage with completely unrealistic expectations - yet another reason pre-marital abstinence is a horrible idea. And I agree with Dan: go ahead and throw it out there that you'd like to bang other women. If she reacts like she's shocked or hurt, use more Dan logic: why should she be so hurt that you want to go out and do this thing that is SO unimportant to her? "Don't get me wrong, [wife's name], I'd LOVE to have a sex life with YOU, but I can see that's not what you want, and I respect that. So, I figure the best way to save our marriage is for me to meet those needs elsewhere and stop burdening you with them."

Better yet, and I know this is the oldest advice column suggestion ever, SHOW HER THIS LETTER/RESPONSE. I hope people will do that all the time after I read SL, and this is one of the ones I really, really hope the wife sees - mainly because I have a strong suspicion that she genuinely believes she's doing nothing wrong by depriving her husband of sex (UGH). I hope she scrolls through these comments, too. (Hi!) He could even email it to her with some of his own thoughts, and they could hopefully start a conversation about sex via email since it seems to be such a ridiculously uncomfortable topic for her to approach out loud.
49
She's already having way hotter sex with the guy she works with ...

Nothing says guilt like forbidden fruit.
50
I can see it now. She agrees to let him fuck around, waits until he goes all the way with some chick, suddenly becomes all pro-sex, and then, VOILA, springs a positive STD test on him.
51
You know what? The ex-catholic girl I dated was by far the most DTF girl I've ever met.
52
If he is telling the truth about NEVER, then he should check the laws in his state (and how divorce court judges interpret them) as to who gets what after a divorce, and how that could change if he's committed adultery. If he is wealthy, she may be waiting for his infidelity to be able to grab as much of what he owns as possible. If he is smart, he'll DTMFA now, on the grounds that the marriage was not consummated, in order to keep paying her for years.
Or not, if his home state is enlightened.
53
No one writes to Dan with this problem without knowing that the advice will be: to get out or to cheat away. Sounds like someone looking for support to go ahead and do what he's already thinking. Maybe it's a bs letter.

But it still gets me a little: "I knew it was a problem before we got married" and "We never have sex" ??

Does that mean never, ever? Not even once? After 5 years of marriage and knowing her long enough before to know it could be a problem?

Or are we talking about "not in three years," or something like that? (also, unacceptable)

Either way, if the letter isn't just comment bait, we're talking about a guy who says he loves his wife and charishes their relationship outside of the sexual component (and without it). They wouldn't be married otherwise.

If she was promising that things would get better after marriage, maybe she thought they would. Maybe the thought of sex makes her uncomfortable for a solid reason (religious, abusive past, emotional/physical insecurity, lack of attraction for her husband), maybe she's a lesbian, or believes that every sperm is sacred, or her husband sucks and she wants out (but can't because of religious belief), or she's never had a sex drive, or doesn't know what an orgasm feels like...there are tons of reasons. Is there physical affection in this relationship outside of sex?

She needs to work out for him the reasons why it's a problem and then work with him to fix it if she wants to stay married. If she can't do that or won't, then they can think about their options and he can make a decision. Try to communicate like never before. If that doesn't work, then I think you already know what you want to do. And you should do it.
54
@49:
"She's already having way hotter sex with the girl she works with..."
Fixed that for ya
55
Oh, and if he is going to go off and fuck other people (yes, with his wife's explicit knowledge [à la @42, et. al.] ), especially lots of other people: Practice SAFE SEX! And GET TESTED every 3-6 months. Just sayin'
56
Hmm.... Marital vows were taken on both sides. He vowed to remain faithful and he should either remain faithful or get out. His vow was not predicated on her putting out. Would the advice to have sex with someone else be the same if the husband couldn't have sex with the wife because she or he had been deployed? Still not having sex even though neither party is the one denying the other. Should either or both spouses in that situation cheat? OR is this good advice just for this type of situation because Dan feels the wife is a bitch? (Not that I disagree with that assessment because no matter the underlying reason for not having sex, the refusal to get help indicates she's a selfish bitch.)

He needs to be upfront and tell her "Get help. It isn't normal to not have sex. If you refuse, then this marriage is over." All marital counseling does not blame everything on the man, but this situation doesn't require marital counseling it requires that the wife get help for her issues about sex. The help very well may end the marriage because she may be frigid due to childhood trauma or a lesbian and frigid due to her religion, but the wife definitely needs help and the husband just stepping out isn't going to do either one of them any good in the long run.

A Catholic marriage REQUIRES both parties be open to having children which clearly she is not if she isn't having sex and thus, she has committed fraud. Don't cheat - end the marriage and maintain your vows even though your wife has broken hers.
57
Going outside the marriage is beside the point. It seems pretty obvious to me that this guy doesn't want to cheat so much as he wants to somehow force his wife to want to fuck him. That's not going to happen, and is why Dan's advice here is really pointless.

And, he says they never have sex (present tense). That pretty clearly implies that they have had sex before, but not at his preferred frequency. This is Reading Comprehension 101, people.

Inasmuch as you can divorce someone for being unwilling or unable to consummate the damn thing?


You can divorce someone for any reason, dipshit.
58
Wow, no sympathy whatsoever for the wife? I admit five years of marriage plus who knows how many years prior is a HELL of a long time but I think a lot of you are underestimating the epically raging guilt-about-sex that comes with growing up as a Catholic female (and I speak from experience). If you listen to the Church's BS on sex your whole life, you are brainwashed into believing that sex is bad, even in marriage, is only for procreation and that a woman's chastity is her greatest gift. Once that's gone, what's she worth? Nothing. Kind of hard to deal with. Add to that the expectations that come with "waiting til marriage," especially if no one tells you that that the deflowering isn't going to be some holy, light-filled, making love on a rainbow made of angel wings experience. This woman will have to do a LOT of self-reflection to undo the damage and first, she needs to recognize that she has a problem. She needs to talk to someone (though clearly not a marriage counselor) or at least read up on some Savage Love.
59
WHAT!?! If he loves this woman, shouldn't he at least give her a chance to explain her true feelings about sex? If he wants to stay with her, he needs to pursue an explicit answer about why she doesn't want to have sex with him-- before he gives up on her altogether. There might be something she needs that he doesn't know about in order for her to open up to him... she might just be frigid. But there is also the possibility of something else.
No sex can be a symptom of a problem-- and the fact that she is uncomfortable talking about the subject tells us she has a problem with SOMETHING.
If you want to cheat, cheat. If you want an open marriage, ask her blessing. If you want to have sex with your wife, make a REAL effort to find out what the problem is. It's probably not you, but you married her, so help her deal with it.
60
I am always astounded by all the people who say that they've been reading the column for a long time and then can't figure these things out themselves. Sure, it's nice to get a personal response, but how many times has this situation been dealt with before in the column? This guy is probably looking for a personalized "Dan Savage said I could cheat on you" card, and I can see the appeal. But it seems like there are a lot of people who write in claiming to love the column and have been reading it forever, yet they've gotten themselves into the stupidest, most avoidable situations that Dan has covered countless times.

I've started writing a dozen or more letters to Dan Savage since I started reading the column a couple of years ago, and I rarely ever send them. By the time I get to the end, I read over it and can tell myself pretty much what he's going to say already. Do these people not realize that their problems aren't terribly unique and that the advice is right there in the archives, and they've probably read their own letter a half dozen times already?
61
"A person who isn't interested in having sex with you before marriage isn't going to suddenly develop a burning desire to inhale your cock/ingest your pussy after marriage. Please make a note of it."

Not always. My wife did not want to have sex before marriage. She said she had had a bad experience with a previous boyfriend pressuring her to have sex. She was so nervous and uptight because of this experience that we didn't have sex until several days after we were married.

Suffice it to say that this has changed. No swinging, but I'm not the only person to have stripped her naked, tied her up and spanked her since we got married. :)
62
Somehow I kinda doubt that she NEVER has sex with him. He doesn't mention that the marriage is entirely unconsummated, which, if true, would be a huge effing point to make and one that Dan wouldn't likely edit out of a long letter. It could very well be that his definition of "never" is simply "not enough."

That doesn't mean that he doesn't have a legitimate gripe. Not getting your reasonable needs reasonably met is grounds for getting them reasonably met elsewhere. But I think before we all jump on his wife and her steel trap pussy, let's make sure his definition of "never" is at least somewhat congruent with ours (or Dan's). If a child wants a piece of candy and you say no, she will whine that she NEVER gets any candy, even if you point out to her that she's had two pieces already that day. FWIW.
63
It's not the wife's "job" to have sex? Really... um... sex shouldn't be viewed as a "job" in a marriage (elsewhere? Well...). But a sexless marriage? No thanks. And AT LAST we get that Savage from so long ago!
64
Divorce. Now. Quickly. Possible annulment. And do not have sex with her now even if she offers. If she suddenly gets pregnant, she owns you.
65
I'm saying this in a "Give the writer the utmost benefit of the doubt" manner, just in case he's actually reading this...

Go to your parish priest and get the wedding annulled. ASAP.

Everyone on this thread is talking about her "hormone levels" or her "inbred sense of Catholic guilt" or her "hidden psychological trauma (aka molestation or rape)". My opinion is simple: the time to tell the man to whom she decided to dedicate the rest of her life to being with (whether out of love or out of a need for a beard) was before the wedding. Hell, I'd have accepted her coming forward about her lack of desire or her trauma or her reservations at any time *before* her husband became frustrated to the point of contacting a sex columnist for advice! But she didn't do that. She hemmed and hawwed and demurred and diverted and (according to him) made so much of an effort to avoid the sex issue that it went beyond the impossible. In fact, given the information that she's an avowed Catholic, I'm surprised that he hasn't even mentioned a willingness to engage in *purely* procreational sex on her part (the good old "Lie on my back and think of England", IYKWIM) Judging from the letter, the man is married to a woman who gave up on sex before marriage and is hellbent on continuing the trend *post-marriage*(an action that goes against current moral guidelines, ancient moral guidelines and *gasp* religious moral guidelines!), commenting on *why* she's given up on sex or *how* he can convince her to try the act is senseless at best based on that fact. *She* doesn't want to do it (she doesn't even want to *talk* about it or consider it!), so *he* supposed to man up and drag it out of her now? Even if he did that, this marriage would end up in three ways (all bad.)

1. She's a lesbian who's too afraid of (or too beholden to) her desires to touch a man. In this case, he'll end up cheating on her in some way, shape or form that allows her to make him the "bad guy"

2. Her Catholic upbringing has led to an amount of sexual repression so severe that her libido has either been shut down and is inaccessible by anything but the most forcible forms of action (there's nothing like being told that your SO won't get wet for you unless you do everything but hold a knife to her throat!) or has taken one of those incredibly weird turns that's guaranteed to drive away all but the most "understanding of men (nothing like being told that your SO can only come if the guy who's fucking her is being fucked in the ass by another dude at the same time!) I gave a couple of personal examples, but the Internet can and will show you all sorts of perversion created by the minds of people who have been trained to think of sex as a bad thing (fursuiters, Harry Potter impregnation porn, anything that would look right on /b/.) Her unwillingness to have sex may be based on her eagerness to have sex that he wouldn't like or couldn't even *begin* to understand...

3.She has hormonal issues. That she won't fix because, "You're the person who has the problem." Or because the side effects involved in finding the right dose are too much to bear. Or because they're suddenly "against her religion". Or, for that matter, any combination of words that will allow her to retain the status quo. If things work out for the best (/sarc) he'll continue along the path of sexual frustration until he either cheats on her with a woman out of pure, hormone-driven desperation (hopefully, the woman will be a peer or a colleague, not an underage girl who likes to flirt and doesn't understand when to stop or how to make someone stop) or she'll undergo that "change of life" hormone surge that some women have and he'll come home to find his "celibate" wife riding some guy who knocked on her door in the middle of the day (mailman, Jehovah's Witness/Mormon, whatever) as if her pussy has a cold and he told her that his semen was made of Robitussin. And the only thing more discomfiting than sexual frustration at the hands of your spouse is sexual frustration at the hands of your *cheating* spouse. Right now, he's just looking for a way to make her better. If she refuses to "get better", and he endures her lack of attentions, it isn't going to end well at all.

Bottom line, get out while the getting's good. Why? Because life isn't short. Life is loooooooooooooongg, and it feels even longer when you've made poor decisions.
66
I'm saying this in a "Give the writer the utmost benefit of the doubt" manner, just in case he's actually reading this...

Go to your parish priest and get the wedding annulled. ASAP.

Everyone on this thread is talking about her "hormone levels" or her "inbred sense of Catholic guilt" or her "hidden psychological trauma (aka molestation or rape)". My opinion is simple: the time to tell the man to whom she decided to dedicate the rest of her life to being with (whether out of love or out of a need for a beard) was before the wedding. Hell, I'd have accepted her coming forward about her lack of desire or her trauma or her reservations at any time *before* her husband became frustrated to the point of contacting a sex columnist for advice! But she didn't do that. She hemmed and hawwed and demurred and diverted and (according to him) made so much of an effort to avoid the sex issue that it went beyond the impossible. In fact, given the information that she's an avowed Catholic, I'm surprised that he hasn't even mentioned a willingness to engage in *purely* procreational sex on her part (the good old "Lie on my back and think of England", IYKWIM) Judging from the letter, the man is married to a woman who gave up on sex before marriage and is hellbent on continuing the trend *post-marriage*(an action that goes against current moral guidelines, ancient moral guidelines and *gasp* religious moral guidelines!), commenting on *why* she's given up on sex or *how* he can convince her to try the act is senseless at best based on that fact. *She* doesn't want to do it (she doesn't even want to *talk* about it or consider it!), so *he* supposed to man up and drag it out of her now? Even if he did that, this marriage would end up in three ways (all bad.)

1. She's a lesbian who's too afraid of (or too beholden to) her desires to touch a man. In this case, he'll end up cheating on her in some way, shape or form that allows her to make him the "bad guy"

2. Her Catholic upbringing has led to an amount of sexual repression so severe that her libido has either been shut down and is inaccessible by anything but the most forcible forms of action (there's nothing like being told that your SO won't get wet for you unless you do everything but hold a knife to her throat!) or has taken one of those incredibly weird turns that's guaranteed to drive away all but the most "understanding of men (nothing like being told that your SO can only come if the guy who's fucking her is being fucked in the ass by another dude at the same time!) I gave a couple of personal examples, but the Internet can and will show you all sorts of perversion created by the minds of people who have been trained to think of sex as a bad thing (fursuiters, Harry Potter impregnation porn, anything that would look right on /b/.) Her unwillingness to have sex may be based on her eagerness to have sex that he wouldn't like or couldn't even *begin* to understand...

3.She has hormonal issues. That she won't fix because, "You're the person who has the problem." Or because the side effects involved in finding the right dose are too much to bear. Or because they're suddenly "against her religion". Or, for that matter, any combination of words that will allow her to retain the status quo. If things work out for the best (/sarc) he'll continue along the path of sexual frustration until he either cheats on her with a woman out of pure, hormone-driven desperation (hopefully, the woman will be a peer or a colleague, not an underage girl who likes to flirt and doesn't understand when to stop or how to make someone stop) or she'll undergo that "change of life" hormone surge that some women have and he'll come home to find his "celibate" wife riding some guy who knocked on her door in the middle of the day (mailman, Jehovah's Witness/Mormon, whatever) as if her pussy has a cold and he told her that his semen was made of Robitussin. And the only thing more discomfiting than sexual frustration at the hands of your spouse is sexual frustration at the hands of your *cheating* spouse. Right now, he's just looking for a way to make her better. If she refuses to "get better", and he endures her lack of attentions, it isn't going to end well at all.

Bottom line, get out while the getting's good. Why? Because life isn't short. Life is loooooooooooooongg, and it feels even longer when you've made poor decisions.
67
So many things could be happening here, let's start at the top!

- He's not getting enough, and yet she's got rug-burn from last night's encounter. Again, just because you don't get candy when you want it, doesn't mean you never get candy. (I LOVE THAT ANALOGY! \O/)

- How is his approach to sex? Suave and debonair? Or ham-fisted sweaty grappling? It doesn't matter if you're suddenly 50 pounds lighter if you still can't figure out which hole is IN, and why she hates it when you bite her nipples like that.

- Maybe she's pregnant? Maybe, she WAS and had a miscarriage? Hormones do crazy things, and Catholics are hardwired to believe (in my case anyway) that the loss of any infant life is a horrible thing. You might not go to hell, but your unborn goes to purgatory and never makes it out. That's precisely what I want floating around in the back of my head while my husband is bumping and grinding his way to ecstasy.

- Clinical depression! Just throwing that out there!

- Does she have stress in other areas of her life? Has he asked?

- I'm attractive, at least that's what the guys who hit on me have to say. But here's the difference. I don't say anything back because I don't care. I'm not interested. And if I was finding myself reciprocating those feelings, I'd know that meant I'd already emotionally checked out of my relationship and I wouldn't need Dan's help to figure that out. Or to enable me to bugger that cutie in the copy room at work.

Yes, I agree with the idea that he needs to discuss this with her. Yes I agree that withholding sex without any manifest cause isn't fair in a relationship, but again there are TWO SIDES to EVERY story, and nobody's ever going to tell it completely unbiased.
68
Another case against abstinence until marriage. Who ever came up with this crazy idea in the first place??? And why are people surprised when someone who didn't want to have sex before marriage doesn't want to have sex after marriage. This guy should get out, find someone he enjoys sex with and maybe loves enough to someday marry.
69
Dan: Catholic, smatholic. Your wife is a lesbian—or might as well be.

I laughed when I read that because the last woman I was with was Catholic (went to Catholic all-girls' schools) and I always wondered if her lack of interest in sex was because of her religion, or because she was a lesbian and just hadn't come to terms with it yet (or, I suppose, both.) She told me she had never had a relationship with a man longer than a year and all of her friends were women. The first time we were in bed (and just getting there took nearly three months) she never took her shirt off, wouldn't let me touch or see her breasts and she wouldn't touch me. What was really odd was that she was one of the most sensual, erotic kissers I've ever been with; we would kiss for hours and just kissing her was better than having sex with about half the women I've been with.
70
I thought Dan HATED letters like this?
71
Actually counselling may help, because it may help her finally admit why she's not into sex, and you can find out if it's a deal breaker issue or not. If it turns out she's a lesbian or asexual, then it's a deal breaker. She will never want to have sex with you.

If it turns out that she has some freaky kink that she's ashamed of, causing her to repress all sexuality, that's something the two of you could work through together. In that situation, she could benefit from some individual counselling. If she's supressing her sexuality due to some past trauma, it's again a situation where some individual counselling for her can help.

Couple's counselling can't hurt, and it may open the dialogue a bit more. She might not clam up in the counsellor's office the way she does when it's just the two of you. If counselling doesn't work, then try Dan's advice.
72
Bases loaded, bottom of the 9th. The sex positives are down by 3 to the sex negatives. Savage steps to the plate with a full count and rips a high hard inside fastball over the center field wall!!
Book-em Dano!
73
@10....No, never mind, you're clearly either deranged, a troll, or a deranged troll.

While I agree with Dan that a person in a sexless marriage who wants to stay married for their kids has "a right to cheat", I have to disagree with him here. These two have been married for five years and they have no children. I'm sure the wife is sparkly and awesome with the exception of this one thing, but there's probably someone out there who's just as sparkly and awesome who actually WANTS to sleep with SMILE. I think he should lay out the situation explicitly for the wife (we fix this problem or I will begin looking elsewhere), and if nothing changes, then he needs to file for divorce. They have no kids, and no compelling reason to inflict this on himself for the rest of his life. What kind of spouse would put the person they profess to love through something like this, anyway?
74
I agree with 68. Why on earth would you marry someone you hadn't ever had sex with? Sounds like a recipe for disaster, to me...
75
Wait, why shouldn't he just get out of this marriage? If he cheats, it sounds like he'll be miserable and she likely already is what with the low sex drive and horrible communication skills. I'm gonna go with

Step 1: Tell her you are not going to live this way. Try to get HER into therapy - not marriage counseling, but therapy - and figure out wtf is going on since it sounds like even she doesn't know what her fucking problem is.

Step 2: If she can't get it together, LEAVE. Just leave. There are no kids and both of you already resent each other because of your sexual incompatibility.

I mean, fucking other people is a good idea, but why not get out of your crap-ass marriage first?
76
I tried broccoli once and hated it. Sure, I can make myself to eat it again but if at all possible, I will avoid it. For this woman, sex is broccoli. Try to make it chocolate, dude.
77
I think she's using her Catholic faith as a scapegoat. I've known my share of Catholic girls and they were amongst some of the most wildly sexual women I've ever had the pleasure to have known. It's just easier to say "Oh, I'm fucked up because I was raised Catholic" than to be honest and say "I married you when you were fat because I was so much more attractive than you I figured you would be grateful and do anything I say, which includes existing without sex because I'm really a lesbian but too repressed to do anything about it."

78
BTW, for the people equating the counseling commentary to a men v women thing, I don't think that's it (and I think Dan's mentioned this before) — it's not "women are saintly and men are pigs," it's "whomever wants less sex is (demure, respectable and) in the right, and whomever wants more sex is unjustified in his/her desires." I realize that statistically this is still going to come out F v M, but as the high-sex-drive F, I can tell you, it does cut the other way. You're always "wrong" to want more sex. Because sex is DIVINE! and HOLY!, you see. A spiritual union, marked by eyegazing and hours of foreplay and simultaneous fireworks orgasms, and ONLY when both partners are EXACTLY EQUALLY aroused. Otherwise, yeah, you're a beast. Sigh.
79
"I have been married for almost five years now, and am extremely happy with my wife in every way. Except for one thing. We never have sex. I knew this was a problem before we got married, but she promised it would get better once the vows were said."

Get a divorce. Stay friends. That is what you are now, so lose the monogamy thing and just be friendly roomates who split expenses.

76, yeah, it is *his* fault she doesn't want to have sex. /eyeroll Fuck you and your attitude that guys need to simply work harder to find a woman's special place in her heart that will unlock her desire, blah, blah, blah. That is romantic novel bullshit.

If she cannot express it, that does not make it his fault.

80
@76: So he needs to be a wizard capable of performing alchemy? SHAZAM!
81
I'm reasonably certain that the Catholic faith that this woman apparently holds so dear would, in fact, tell her that it's a wife's job to have sex with her husband. The bible's pretty big on that sort of thing.

One question comes to mind: If her Catholic faith is so very important to her and having a sex life is soooo very repellent to her, why doesn't she just become a nun? It seems like it'd be the perfect life for her. She'd get to godbother all she wants without ever having to worry about anyone (aside from the horny old priests) trying to pressure her to fulfill her promises about sex. It's win-win!
82
WHOA! Okay, there are people who just aren't interested in sex and then there are people who are AFRAID of sex or have genuine sexual dysfunction. Those people can benefit from counseling! I know of one story about one woman who managed to get over her problems with sex (her husband, like SMILE, spent many sad but faithful years) and she was so glad! She was so glad that she hadn't waited any longer than she did.

So yes, there are counselors out there who would recognize that the partner putting the kibosh on all sex is the one with the problem.
83
Maybe he stinks.
84
Ok - how old is she? Some women don't gear up until their 30's. I know - because that happened to me. But in the meantime she needs to fill more of your needs the friendly if not hot passionate way... Dan has made many suggestions in the past as to how that can be done!!
85
Forget cheating. DTMFA. And get a good attorney when ya' do, SMILE!
86
A lot of people misread Dan on this one. The most important thing he said, imho: TELL HER. Don't go out and cheat before having the conversation, but don't "ask for persmission to have an open relationship", either -- INFORM her that you're GOING to have sex in your life, and if it won't be with her, then it will have to be with someone else. Have the conversation, but be assertive about your needs!
After such a conversation, doing someone else is not cheating.

I personally know a couple in this situation. A quiet DADT agreement for the husband. They're still together, and happy about it.
87
Maybe she secretly wants to hogtie him, peg him, and take a dump on his chest. Oh, the Christian guilt.

But really, we will never know what is up with this woman, unless there is a followup. Maybe she has little to no sex drive. Maybe she isn't attracted to him but wants to be married. Maybe she is a lesbian. Maybe maybe maybe

I agree with Dan's advice in a way, because I know if I were the husband I would be extremely frustrated, hurt and rejected, and feel like I should just go and bang other women. But at the same time, it seems better to divorce her. But which will be less shitty to do, really? Maybe divorce since there is opportunity to move on and find someone else to love and fuck.

I do agree that there should be some sort of serious discussion before fucks other people. If she still clams up, then there's his green light. But he should definitely inform her, at least. She may clam up, but she may just go ahead and agree on divorce. Who knows! I would love a follow up to this situation.
88
Dan is spot on with this one. I would go one further: She's probably cheating on you. That's right, Mrs. SMILE is likely getting laid on the side & laughing about your frustration with whomever she's boning, all the while making you feel as tho' you're the one who's causing the 'situation'. Therapy, especially 'relationship' therapy or sex therapy is the last thing either one of you need, unless you have too much money & self esteem.
89
I love sex, I'm beautiful, I don't need any stimulation beyond intercourse, and no man ever wants me. Fuck you all. Go to fucking hell.
90
Sorry dan, wrong advice.
No kids, no reason to stay.
leave her, and tell her why.
Why would you advocate cheating, when he can just leave?
Cheating is a LAST resort, not a first one. Yes, the wife is wrong, but the RIGHT thing to do is say "sex is part of marriage. If we don't have sex, we're just living together, and that's not how I want to live my life. I'm sorry but if we can't fix this together, I have to leave. Clearly we're not matched well, and it hasn't got any better with time and effort".

Love the advice usually Dan, but just because you hear this story over and over again doesn't mean this guy should jump the gun.
91
Rule 1) Either you are an active participant in my sex life, or you are outside the curtain, as it were, and my sex life is none of your business.
Rule 2) If you aren't having sex with me, and don't even want to talk about it, then you are not an active participant. See rule 1.

Yes, it really is that simple.

The man needs to lay it out to his wife that way, and put the ball in her court. She might surprise him, and actually agree that she just isn't interested and therefore it's none of her business. She might feel relief at being let off the hook.

If she tries to defend her turf and insist that he be faithful to her (i.e., celibate), then he should tell her, "I will not divorce you over this by choice, because there is more to our marriage than sex. But neither will I be celibate, period. If you insist on standing on this deal-breaker, I will divorce you." Again the ball is in her court, as to which choice she wants to give up: give up celibacy; give up monogamy; or give up him.

That said, he probably is smarter to divorce her before going outside the marriage, if only to protect his interests. In the courts, better that she is the villain for being asexual than that he is the villain for being unfaithful.