Don't be such a sack, Dan. 40 lbs pretty much excludes all but the smallest breeds. So anyone wanting to keep anything other than a toy on a rope is pretty much SOL. But then, focusing on that aspect of it wouldn't have allowed you to make your pulpit point about the perils of pitbulls, would it?

And while you didn't solicit it, I'd agree that having a wolfdog on a college campus would be an insanely bad idea, and cruel to both the community and the animal.

Ha ha fuckers.

I see I can still own a goddamn tiger on campus. No weight limits on kitties!

Well see dog breeds are just like race, because, um.... BECAUSE!

You can't breed dogs for behavior. Herding, hunting, retrieving, fighting, nope, none of it. That's just breedist hate speech. Next thing you know you'll be telling my that bloodhounds are good at tracking or Golden Retrievers at retrieving.

Letting students keep pets (ANY pets) in their dorm rooms is a bad idea. Sure, some of them are actually responsible, but far too many will end up neglecting their pets to death.

Ask any animal shelter operators in college towns... there's always an spike in abandoned pets right around graduation time. And that's merely non-dorm students; let all the freshmen bring their kitty and puppy to school with them and you're asking for trouble.

If the students need to have animal company, encourage them to volunteer at animal shelters.

When it comes to this issue, Dan, you're a moron.

If you really need animal company on campus, there's always Fraternity Row.

i know, i know, deaf ears:

vick dog now therapy dog: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story… (actually 3+ of them are)

pit bulls as police dogs:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section…

pit bulls as narcotics & explosive sniffing dogs:
http://www.lawdogsusa.org/home.html

and more and more are moving in that direction everyday:
http://www.kmox.com/Pit-bulls-rescued-fr…

denver is currently facing lawsuits from people with disabilities whose therapy dogs are pitbulls.

Dan, just an FYI, the link to the first "etc" is the same story from Hanover Pa. on the eight year old boy who is in the "mauled" link. You're 100% right, but I don't want you to be accused of exaggerating!

@1: 40 lbs does NOT exclude all but the "smallest breeds." 40 lbs would be considered a medium sized dog, and would include many lighter-boned, rangy dogs like Border Collies. It's a more generous size limit than many apartments, which if they allow dogs at all, don't allow dogs over 20 lbs.

And wolf-hybrids are NOT dogs. They shouldn't ever be considered dogs. They don't behave like dogs, and need much more careful handling than even pit bulls. Most cannot be housebroken, and tend to be shy around strangers (so don't make good guard dogs or watchdogs).

The real tragedy is keeping an animal (especially a cat which needs to run around and can't go outside) in a dorm room. Have you seen a dorm room recently?

@5 Ya, the first time I tried to get a cat I called a boarder who told me she wouldn't make an appointment with me because I was a college student. Abandoning a cat is something I would never ever ever do. She didn't want to hear it.

How come there isn't a single reputable public health or animal welfare or veterinary organization that supports singling out specific dog breeds this way? Does anyone know? Is it a conspiracy of some kind?

I guess every silver lining has a cloud.

@8 I can't say I really favor a ban on a breed as, well, the whole concept is pretty fluid. But I do take objection to claims that behavior or temperament cannot be breed for. So yeah not all or even most pit bulls are aggressive, but they and other breeds have certainly been breed for things like fighting and defense over the years which makes them more likely than say an English Mastiff which has not.

Personally I would like to see a ban on breeding for fighting or aggression across all breeds as well as continuing to crack down on dog fights and irresponsible owners.

Again, Dan, bad owners breed bad pets. one should be LICENSED to own aggressive breeds, but they aren't all bad dogs just because they have the potential to be bad. A well-socialized pit-bull is usually one of the sweetest dogs you'll ever meet. I DO agree with prohibiting dangerous breeds from places, at least until we have a rigid licensing system, but you really, really need to stop being a sensationalist about this shit.

People die in car wrecks far more often than pit-bull attacks, but I don't hear you demonizing cars every three fucking posts.

Dogs shit everywhere. Cats pee everywhere (cat owners just get used to the smell and don't notice it).

i always wondered what would happen if you had say, a morbidly obese yorkshire terrier in an apartment. they SHOULD be under 20lbs, but what if yours weighed like 25? would the board make you send it to puppy fat camp?

I've known several Rottweilers, and they've never been anything other than the biggest sweethearts.

@15: And you can tell the pit bulls with bad owners from the pit bulls with good owners... exactly how?

For me, now, that's the issue. Pit bull apologists acknowledge that bad owners make for bad pits and that the extreme bodily harm can be done by a pit with a bad owner. But how do we tell the bad-owner pits from the good-owner pits?

Safer, I think, to presume that all pits have bad owners—for the same reason you assume all guns are loaded. Safety first, the delicate sensibilities of butthurt pit owners second.

the problem doesn't come from the general public not being able to determine the difference. the problem comes for labeling them all dangerous. studies have shown that breed generic dangerous dog laws - laws that punish dogs that are ACTUALLY dangerous and have shown themselves to be so - are much more effective than breed specific laws. the problem does not come from people assuming that pits, rotts, whatevers are dangerous. the problem comes from the general public having a false sense of security around dogs not deemed "dangerous" by the law.

also in detailed studies of dog bites, situation has been shown to be more telling than breed. intact males, abuse and extensive chaining, for example, are a few of those situations. so, if you see a starved dog - of any breed - with big balls and a giant chain running loose in the street, best to stay away. if you see a dog with a collar and no balls on a LEASH with a person, that's probably generally in the category of "good-owner". most of those are more likely to slobber you to death than actually bite.

So what is the harm in outlawing pit bulls? pit bulls still get to exist in other areas of the world and the numbers can go way down, then when pit bulls (and attacks) get FAR less frequent they can be reintroduced as pat that requires a license, the license can be a way of trying to insure responsible pit owners.

Or maybe just licenses, and @16, Some vehicles, like tanks and semi's and race cars do require special licenses because not all cars are the same, like not all dog breeds are the same.

Also: Pit bulls are ugly.

Dan, the biggest reason I hate to see you post about this isn't so much that I disagree with you as that I love your column and think you're an obviously very smart person and these posts exhibit such childish, unintelligent reasoning.

Dan, you're reducing your credibility by going on these rants.

@17: Yes, but you can train a cat to piss in a litterbox, and they'll respect that rule. Dogs, not so much.

I'm surprised that no one is talking about W&J's rule, frankly. Same-old, same-old from me—I don't like your dog! NOT FAIR!!!—but here we have an institution of higher learning institutionalizing institutional anti-pit bigotry.

Thoughts on that?

the focus should really be on @5's point, not the breeds involved (at least in this case). allowing college kids to keep dogs and cats in dorms is a horrible idea, for all the reasons he listed.

i'm one of those people (a bird watcher) that thinks our non-native killing-machine cats should be kept inside, but a dorm room seems an especially cruel place for any animal to reside, (not least Homo sapiens!).

The problem, when you talk about banning pit bulls, is that you are actually talking about banning a group of dogs that LOOK a certain way--because there is no guarantee that a "pit bull" is in fact a pit bull. American Staffordshire terriers are basically pit bulls--American Pit Bull Terriers were first registered by the United Kennel Club, which was started to register pit bulls and sanction dog fights. The American Kennel Club later recognized a "cleaned up" version of pit bulls call the American Staffordshire Terrier, but they are basically the same dog. Staffordshire Bull Terriers, from the UK, are smaller dogs but still have that same general look. There is also the Bull Terrier (Spuds Mackenzie, a genetic mess if there ever was one). Then there are the Presa Canario, American Bulldog, and other molosser-type dogs that have a pit bull look. Then, of course, there are all kinds of mixes--so do you ban pit bulls and everything that looks like a pit bull? In the interest of fairness, do you ban EVERY breed that was ever used for fighting or bull baiting? (because, hey, these dogs were MADE from bull-baiting dogs and aggressive terriers). Or just ban everything that's on the list that my insurance company sends as a rider to my policy to let me know that they won't cover injuries caused by one of those dogs--off the top of my head, the list includes Dobermans, Rottweilers, American Staffordshire and Staffordshire Bull terriers, Pit Bulls, Akitas, German Shepherds, and wolf hybrids, but there are probably more. And frankly, there are some very aggressive hunting dogs and cowdogs with pit-type heads--American breeds like the Catahoula Leopard dog and the Blackmouth Cur and Plott--that should perhaps go on the list as well, but just aren't as popular or well-recognized.

I agree that temperament can be bred for--it's not just bad owners--and there are ALSO seizure disorders that cause aggressive behavior which responsible breeders know about and breed AWAY from--but not so much the backyard idiot, OR the person who is touched by the plight of abandoned, unwanted dogs, taking them in and trying to rehabilitate. Some shelters/rescuers cannot admit that not ALL dogs can be good pets.

Pit bulls are so called because they are trained to fight in dug out pits, and they are shaped somewhat like male cattle. They have been bred for centuries, perhaps millenia, to kill. Just like poodles were bred to swim, labradors were bred to retrieve, collies were bred to herd and hounds were trained to track and tree.

Dogs are malleable as breeds, and respond instinctively to do as their ancestors were trained to do. Individual dogs CANNOT defy this training. Take the sweetest pit bull in the world and put it in a pit with another dog and IT WILL FIGHT. Just like a coon hound will tree a squirrel without being trained.

Any pit is a time bomb. The FIRST time they hit some evolutionary trigger to fight and kill, they will. Just like you don't have to teach a golden to fetch. It just does it.

You tell bad pit owner based on the fact that if they look like white, black, or hispanic trash then they are probably bad owners. Also it is clearly obvious that the type that have them to be tough-looking are also most likely bad owners.

And actually, Dan, to your point @25, all they REALLY had to do was to say "adult weight 40 lbs or under." That keeps out most bull breeds anyway--even Staffordshire Bull Terriers, unless they are small bitches, are going to weigh more than that.

But they could certainly point to insurance requirements. Most homeowner policies will not cover a bull breed without a significant hike in premiums. So they COULD say hey, our hands are tied here...

For crying out loud, Dan. Fucking get over yourself. No professional canine association of any kind advocates breed bans, no evidence has shown that breed bans reduce the number of dog bites and attacks, but you think you, a self-professed dog hater, know better than the professionals and the real world evidence. I bet you couldn't even identify a "Pit Bull" if it was biting your dog-hating ass.

And not only that, but then you title these absurd, ridiculous, ill-informed posts -- posts of precisely the same nature as the anti-marijuana articles you so regularly decry -- in ways that damage even your larger message of non-discrimination. But of course, because you enjoy smoking pot and think it's harmless, you don't mind supporting the global crime machine that in most cases makes that possible (even if the blame for the existence of that crime machine can be laid squarely at the feet of the prohibitionists you so passionately decry).

And even if it were true, as you so disingenuously claim, that the issue for you is one of safety, nothing you are doing by posting these idiotic stories is promoting safety. Even the global extinction of Pit Bulls, Pit Bull crosses and dogs that look like they might be Pit Bulls would not stop people from being bitten, mauled or killed by dogs, things that are exceptionally rare in the first place. If you really gave a shit about dog safety, then you'd be campaigning for education and for changes to laws about dog ownership and animal cruelty. But you don't; you just have some weird bee in your bonnet about ... who knows what? Maybe it's just your passive-aggressive way of dealing with the fact that you were outnumbered in the family vote over whether or not to get a dog. Either way it's stupid, it's annoying, it's pointless, and it costs you a little of your credibility with every ridiculous post

@25 I'm guessing that's probably sarcasm, but I'll play along anyway. I don't think I've ever seen a pit bull, rottweiler or "wolf breed" that's under 40 pounds when fully grown. The language of the rule uses two popular breeds as examples of dogs that would violate the weight requirement. No big deal.

I don't have a dog in this fight (zing!), but I wouldn't be surprised to see the school administration change their tune after having to rip out all the carpet and whatever else in a few hundred cat piss-soaked dorm rooms.

Confiscate & euthanize all pit bulls now. Criminalize their breeding, importation & ownership.

I'd just like to point out that it was a cocker spaniel that scarred me for life when it bit me and I had to go get stitches. Little fucker. I still hate cockers and I think they need to be banned.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2111-Dog-News-…

http://www.examiner.com/x-2111-Dog-News-…

For those who argue that there is INHERENT aggression in the pit bull breed

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008…

Aussie and Golden Retriever *snap* and kill owner. This made local news only, while the same week there was a non-fatal attack in NY by a pit bull...The pit bull story was picked up nationally and made it to more than 200 media outlets....media bias is a very real thing

@25-
they most likely specified those breeds because whomever instigated this new rule got influenced by all the negative press these breeds get.

I agree w/ Hernandez @32. I'd be more worried about the sanitary conditions with all the shit & piss that lazy owners aren't going to take responsibility for.

@28-
First of all, bull-baiting, please read. "...shaped somewhat like male cattle." Please provide sources of information for why you think they're called Pit Bulls.

They've been bred for a little over a century, not millenia.

I need you to clarify what they were bred to kill. Bulls? Bears? other pits? Cute little children?

Putting two pit bulls in a pit will automatically instigate a fight reaction... sounds like you speak from experience. And honestly, any fuckin' dog can tree a squirrel w/o being trained.

@26,
Thanks, although when it comes to Dan and posts containing the word "pit bull" I sort of know what to expect in the comments section, and this one only reinforced that.

What can you say... these folks love to argue about pit bulls, whether it's the focus of tonight's debate or not!

@24 Your cat still pee everywhere. He will do the majority of his business in the litter but it will still pee everywhere it can. It's even worse if you let your cat out of the house.

#43, you are a moron who knows nothing about cats. Please stop posting. Three cats, ten years and counting - and not a drop outside the litter box. Two of them walk on a leash for fifteen minutes a day when it's nice out, and all three are the happiest, most pampered pets you'd ever meet. Just shut up, please.

Dan, can you find the pit bull? http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/…

If you can't, maybe you can understand why banning "pit bulls" specifically (and leaving most other breeds alone) is just something to make you *feel* safer. And you'll understand why not all "pit bull attacks" aren't actually caused by pit bulls.

I know that I couldn't pick out the pit bull within my first couple tries. A lot of dogs identified as pit bulls, aren't.

I understand the concern for dangerous breeds, but your anti-pit bull hysteria just harms your case, rather than helping it. Use science and reputable statistics (statistics preferably with accurate breed identification - i.e. NOT based on what the local tv station says the breed is) to make your case.

I don't particularly have an interest in owning a dog like any of those, but I get tired of your stupid, entirely anecdote-based arguments.

@44 Your place must smell awful. But you wouldn't know.

Because all of us who have worked in shelters and veterinary hospitals have known plenty of very sweet pit bulls and rotties, and plenty of very nasty golden retrievers and poodles and labs and so on and so forth.

All of us have also noticed a striking correlation between asshole dogs and stupid clueless owners. I think that the people who tend to be drawn to pits specifically are often on the younger, dumber, more reckless end of the spectrum (eg. idiot 22-year-old guys who have trucknuts on their SUVs and won't neuter their dogs), which makes the problem worse.

A stupid clueless owner combined with a dog large and strong enough to kill somebody is a really terrible thing. I do think we should be bringing severe punishments on the people whose dogs hurt others, and creating a culture where it's socially acceptable -- normal and expected-- to euthanize animals who show aggressive tendencies.

(sorry, that was @12)

Keeping pets in dorm rooms is such a bizarre idea I can't even properly process it. I know loads of students with pets, and none of them would even think that bringing one to university (where they'll be busy, and stressed, and living in a tiny room) was a good idea.