SL Letter of the Day: Engaging Question


The guy's a dick. Not because he's turned off by a mere 15 lbs of fat -- people like what they like, and you can't really change that -- but because he's a real DICK for NOT TALKING to you. If he won't start talking deeply, specifically, intimately, and truthfully right now, walk away. It'll only get worse after the marriage.

A good start would be to ask him, "Why exactly do you want to get married if you don't really want to fuck me?" His reasons may surprise you.
surprised Dan didn't say DTMFA. Guy seems like a shallow jerkwad.
Ho hum. Give me a kick-back from that $2 she spent on the app and maybe I'll get motivated to write something too. Or maybe not.
SIL's spouse sounds a bit lazy, but she also sounds a bit oblivious. Quote: "I want him to want to have sex with me. That is where my turn on is and I'm not getting it. " Well, that could very well be where his turn on is too, y'know, and if you're really never initiating, or at least showing some interest, then he won't get it either.
Both of them seem like the best advice each can get is DTMFA.

But, hey, that's just my viewpoint.
Do NOT do NOT do NOT do NOT marry someone with whom the sex is not fabulous. This will NOT get better after you get married. I think you should break up with him and find someone who wants to fuck you as you are, but short of that, at least postpone the wedding and give the sex relationship time to turn around. If it doesn't, LEAVE.
Man this women has some serous issues. She complains that she feels unwanted due to being fatter but now she worries if she loses the fat she will be self conscious. What a terrible place this woman is in, she has no easy way out.

She needs to accept that she has put herself into a terrible position even if it is not her choice. Not to say that she is the only one that can change this but she can only control her own behavior, not his.
An important piece of info is missing here. What happens when you initiate? Does he make a true effort to get into it? Or does he act like you're being silly? I think that is a difference between normal 'ebb and flow' marital sex and time to DTMFA.

Also, if possible it is best not to get bitter about him looking at cuter versions of you. What could be more natural? He chose you in the end, didn't he?

One last thing-Dan is fully correct about the friends with benefits sitch. Does he want you to bring home STIs? What is with that?

Since when does one instigate sex?

Also, the entire "You instigate!" "No, you instigate!" dynamic sounds dysfunctional and doomed.
I love your answer, but confess I skipped over all but the first paragraph of the question.
i have a slightly different take. my advice, LW, is that you need to suck it up and initiate more.

seven years actually is quite a while to be together (even on and off) and after a while sex simply does get less spontaneous. that's natural.

I want him to want to have sex with me.

yeah - the problem is - HE WANTS THE SAME THING.

unless one of you can reset your expectations here you are doomed. either he needs to be cool with initiating all the time or you need to be cool with initiating half the time.

honestly - initiating half the time seems fair to me.

...I'm a tad passive in this area, and it's not like he's instigating either!

he's probably secretly resenting you for not initiating enough.

I asked him to be more attentive and flirty so I might feel more attractive and be encouraged to instigate sex, and he says this is too much work just to get laid

How come YOU can't be attentive and flirty?. seriously - it sounds like you're putting to much of the onus on your man here to keep the spark alive.

it's OK to be passive early on in a relationship when the overall lust quotient is high enough for a partner to always want to initiate.

things change...

if you can't suck it up and be more equitable on iniatiation then i think you need to move on to a new guy who will see you as a novelty. but be ready to change guys every five years or so.

also - initiating sex doesn't have to be that hard. doesn't always have to be flirting and flowers. you can just raise an eyebrow and say "wanna have some fun upstairs?".
and be ready for the occasional disappointement too.

For a long term couple with kids, twice a month seems pretty normal and realistic to me.
The guy's an idiot. His wife is a bisexual who doesn't mind threesomes, and he's saying "he'd rather just masturbate and get it over with"???

Most guys would kill for this arrangement. If he can't handle a few extra pounds or lacks the sex drive to properly take advantage of the situation, he should get the hell out of the way so this hot bitch can get the polyamorous, no-holes-barred fucking she deserves.
For all the talk about sex, it doesn't sound like that's what SiL wants. She wants to be wanted.

It doesn't sound like the lack of sex is the problem, but the lack of sex exactly by her rules. If she can't get it from her soon-to-be-husband, she shouldn't doom the two of them to a life of unhappiness.
She is 135lbs at 5'4" ! That is not overweight. At all. Period. Dump that jackass.
LOL @9, Definitely not the word I wanted there. I think this sinus infection might be putting pressure on my brain.
I'd just like to mention that 5'4 and 135 pounds is NOT fat. Really, it's not even close to fat. I'm fine if he's only into really skinny women or if she looks quite different from before but I thought someone should point out that that's not a good threshold for "letting yourself go" in a general way.
You have kids. He probably works. Everything else seems to be working. Try getting the kids out of the house more and setting up more "date nights" to put the romantic mood there.

Stop expecting spontaneous sex in a lifestyle that doesn't allow it. If you truly are "best friends" you two should be able to identify problems and work through this one pretty easily. Also... try masturbating yourself. You sound needy.
ignore all of the women here clinging to the weight thing... the weight might be a small issue, but I really doubt that its reason #1 that you're not getting your physical needs met (as much as) you'd like to.
@15 - she doesn't say that her weight is the problem (in fact, he denies it). She says she fears that her weight is the problem.

@11 has probably hit the nail on the head. She has this idea of how sex should (must) be: he has "to be more attentive and flirty so I might feel more attractive". She doesn't feel like she should have to do anything to make HIM feel attractive, etc. It's entirely up to him.

He's not "instigating" anything because he's tired of feeling like he has to jump through hoops for her and not getting what he needs - and, just to be clear, what he needs is the same thing she needs: to feel attractive and loved.
"As for his restrictions on your girl-on-girl action, I think allowing for a FWB arrangement is safer, disease-wise, than insisting on casual and/or anonymous connections. Perhaps you can soothe his concerns about being dumped for a woman by agreeing to only doing the FWB thing with other happily-married women, i.e. no single lesbians or bi women, no unhappily married women. But a pass to sleep with other women is a big deal—have you given him one?—and his demands, while not ideal, are by no means unreasonable."

I wish my bisexual husband and I could do that (gender-flipped). I was interested in poly and see nothing morally wrong with it, so we tried it -- but I couldn't reconcile my emotions with my intellectual philosophy. I tried and tried -- for 6 months, he had boyfriends. Single, cute gay guys who weren't interested in anything but a relationship with him.

I tried having a guy here and there, as well. I turned down most offers, because it just made me incredibly uncomfortable to be doing it with other people -- I had plenty of partners before my husband, but after we married, I saw no need to go elsewhere. We're almost perfectly matched in the bedroom, with all our kinks lining up.

We (my husband and I) had discussed it and both agreed that in the future, we'd look for a long-term triad partner. We had a threesome with one guy I found who we both liked. He was awesome, interested in all the same stuff we are (and in some cases, stuff that my husband is interested in but I'm not, like computers, or stuff I'm interested in but dh isn't, like books.) but lived in another state. The experience made us both realize that threesomes or a long-term third partner would be ideal.

Unfortunately, the main issue I had was that his boyfriends were single and gay -- I felt as though what was going on was unfair to everyone. They were looking for a boyfriend -- someone to be there when life was sucky as well as when it was great, and they got a married f-buddy. My husband was trying to please everyone and never quite able to. I felt nervous and threatened by the intense nature of the long-term relationships, but felt they were safer than anonymous one-night-stands. I hated lying to his parents about what was happening.

The entire thing was just an unholy mess, and we came out with our marriage intact but fragile.

If we could find a happily married poly bi guy, that would be just . . . perfect. Almost perfect. Perfection would be a long-term triad partner, but it seems like out bi guys are few and far between.

Making her partner initiate sex everytime is probably a much bigger deal to SIL's partner than she thinks. A little effort on the obvious and acknowledged front of initiating sex may go further and take a hell of a lot less work than losing 10-15 lbs.
@11 - Dead on the money.
@17 (and other comments on what's "fat"): Well, to be fair, he hasn't called her fat or indicated that he felt she had "let herself go." SHE thinks it's weight-related. It might be. Might not.

To me, the fact they're getting married soon is probably as likely a factor in his lack of interest. Maybe he's suffering anxiety, regret, something. Who knows. I'm just shooting in the dark here, but just because she's convinced it's her weight -- rather than him realizing he's gotten bored with the relationship, getting a case of nerves, or WHATEVER -- doesn't mean that's what it is.
Do not get married unless you work this out. Postpone if you have to. Do not marry somebody who does not want to have sex with you.

If he thinks it is easier to just masturbate, rather than romance you a little, run like the wind! You are going to have a miserable, sex-starved marriage.

5'4", 135 pounds and wants to have lesbian sex on the side? Damn girl, that is just hot! You can do so much better!

I think the writer could benefit from individual counseling of a normal variety for body image issues and some general insecurity. But if she's being pro-active in getting herself to a weight that feels more comfortable for her(no 5'4"/135lbs is NOT fat), has supportive friends, and is managing to get some hot girl on girl play...that sounds pretty confident to me. Especially that she's managed the above with two kids.

In fact it sounds like the only source of insecurity in her world is with her partner's attraction to her. That is why I think this is a DTMFA situation. She sounds a bit sexually submissive and he sounds like an asshole...but it could be that he's actually sexually submissive too and just REALLY bad at communicating.

But if everything else except the sex and intimacy is going great, and she's not willing to drop what's not working(the romantic stuff) to possibly save what is working(the friendship) I've heard really good things about Elizabeth Larson(see above link). But I sure wouldn't put a down payment on the wedding dress till things had gotten better then they are right now.

Lastly, I disagree with Dan that she owes her partner an open relationship quid pro quo because he lets her have one night stands with other women. It was a pre-existing condition that she has done by his terms, often including him in activities. I am Poly and very pro-open relationship but the lack of communication in this one would be a breeding ground for disaster if he was allowed to act on his wandering eye while claiming to be "too tired" to get it up for his primary.
I was with her right up until she pooh-poohed his suggestions. If she's not willing to initiate sex or send obvious signals, then her complaints about not getting enough ring pretty hollow. Having a house full of kids (especially, I would guess, those of other people) takes up an enormous amount of your time and effort. I can see a guy not wanting to get mixed up in her head games under those circumstances.

No, I don't think the guy's doing everything (anything?) right, but there's enough weird inner psychodrama here to make me seriously doubt her perspective and her willingness to make changes.

Also, in re: 15 pounds, maybe I'm different from this guy, but that sounds like nothing at all. It seems to me that sexiness is more attitude than anything else. If a woman acts sad and dumpy then she's going to look sad and dumpy. If she is confident in what she's got and presents it well, "fat" turns into "curves" instantly. Maybe she doesn't turn his crank anymore because she's so insecure.
The solution to your problem is to fucking LISTEN to your partner. He's TELLING you the solution, but you don't want to hear it.

"He says it's because I don't instigate sex enough. There is some truth to this but he knows I'm a tad passive in this area, and it's not like he's instigating either! "

In other words, you are doing the exact same thing he is, but you expect to be given a free pass, while he has to step up his game. Hypocrite.

"I asked him to be more attentive and flirty so I might feel more attractive and be encouraged to instigate sex,"

In other words, you want him to do all the work to make you feel attractive, but you have no intention of reciprocating, to make HIM feel attractive, ever. Do you understand why he refers to it these days as "just getting laid?" It's because at this point, he is convinced that you don't really want him, and that he has to put on an act to persuade you out of your general state of disinterest IN HIM. Having to persuade someone to have sex isn't making love, it's getting laid. No wonder he stopped asking, and would "rather just masturbate and get it over with." Once you reach that conclusion, it feels more polite to just take care of your own physical needs without importuning the disinterested party. It's also a fucking depressing place to inhabit. You slowly come to the conclusion that your partner regards you as fucking Quasimodo.

Look at the solutions that he proposes. All of them are about getting you to initiate at least part of the time. He asks you to INITIATE some reasonable percentage of the time. He asks you to put on a certain article of clothing to indicate that you are INTERESTED. He wants some indications from you -- FOR A CHANGE -- that sex with him is something that you would actually LIKE, rather than something that he always (always...) has to persuade you into.

You, meanwhile and oblivious, are convinced it's all about the weight gain. From here, I think that's just a coincidence. The weight issue came on at roughly the same time (and rate, probably) as seven years of him doing all the initiating. It's not that you are too fat for him, it is that he is emotionally worn out from constantly feeding your sexual self-image while getting little or none of the same from you in return.

Still, there's the weight, and worse, your attitude about it. You are afraid that he isn't initiating because of the weight. You want him to initiate more, despite the weight. In fact, if you lose the weight and he happens to start initiating more, you will hold that fact against him, despite getting what you wanted, namely, more initiating. I'm appalled that you would admit that out loud. There's no winning with you.

@11 very true. It used to drive my husband nuts that I rarely initiated, I thought, "well, we're still having sex, what's the problem?", but I finally realized, after being told about 100 times, that the feeling of being desired is AS important as the actual sex, otherwise it can just feel rote and perfunctory. No one wants to feel like you're doing them a favour by deigning to sleep with them.

I wish you had shared what you are doing to keep your relationship sex filled. Are you going out of your way to flirt and entice him? Do you make an effort to make him feel wanted? You aren't putting that burden on him, are you, making him fully responsible for all the flirting, acting attentive, and instigating? Because, in my opinion, that would be a crappy thing to do to someone you love. Everyone desires to feel wanted.

"Nothing makes a woman more beautiful then the belief that she is beautiful" -Sophia Loren

Try believing that you're beautiful without expecting him to make you feel beautiful, and try pursuing him as a way to mix things up. Good luck.
Very Bad Homo @ 12,

You're joking? Right? Twice a month sounds damn depressing for this parent of two.
#28 - Wow, you ought to start writing your own column.

Oh hell no. With an infant, maybe. But for
me, twice a month would be grounds for divorce.

Speaking of that, DON'T GET MARRIED, people. This problem isn't going to fix itself.

Projecting your own relationships problems much?

How does your experience match up with this part of the letter:

He says he doesn't think about sex until he wants it, so if there's any prep work that has to go into it he can't do it.

He doesn't want to fuck HER, period.
"I asked him to be more attentive and flirty so I might feel more attractive and be encouraged to instigate sex, and he says this is too much work just to get laid. He says he doesn't think about sex until he wants it, so if there's any prep work that has to go into it he can't do it. He'd rather just masturbate and get it over with."

So your sex life sucks and he's specifically said that he's not willing to put forth any effort to make you feel desired because it's easier to masturbate. Guys like that, who aren't willing to put forth any effort to maintain the sex life, do not deserve to have wives who want sex. He should find himself one of those ladies who pretends to like sex until marriage and then gives up on it, and marry one of those. This lady wants to feel desired and wants to change things, and he's not willing to put forth the effort. It's not going to get better with time. You need to have this talk before you're married.

That being said, has the writer done anything to entice him lately, or have they fallen completely into routine? Bring home a new sex toy or game or outfit, or tell him there's something you want to try. If he has no enthusiasm for having a minor sexual adventure with you (something more enticing than masturbation, hopefully), that's that. But I hope the writer has made some effort to make herself feel sexy. Go out and get something that you look hot in, extra 15 lbs be damned, and find someone who thinks you're hot. Did your latest hookups not find you attractive? I don't think the insecurity is helping, and you can't blame all of that on him.
I don't know - 15 lbs. isn't an awful lot to sweat over, and if it is, then he's extremely shallow.

My guess is that he's bored and wants to move on and this is his excuse. She sounds like she's so ready to nest that she'll put up with his attitude because it's the quickest way to settle down. Notice how they both blame each other for not making the moves? That means no one is really interested.

Time for her to get on to someone else who is thrilled with all of her, someone she can thrill to as well. Same for the fiance. But to other people, not each other.
Early thirties. She's at her sexual peak, he's way beyond it. She's going to have to buy some toys, and get with the girls.
come on, girls;

repeat after Big Momma-


doesn't matter if you have permission.

we seem to be having this conversation every week-

lucky for Danny his credulous fans are really really stupid....
@34, you seem a little too willing to accept the letter at face value. This is from a woman who minimizes her own contribution to the problem:
He says it's because I don't instigate sex enough. There is some truth to this but he knows I'm a tad passive in this area, and it's not like he's instigating either!

(emphasis mine).

There's some truth to this (but not much) but anyway it's his fault because he knows I'm just a tiny bit passive and besides, I shouldn't have to do it unless he does it.

Sure, he probably is a bit of an uncommunicative jerk. But he has told her what at least part of the problem is - she's choosing to ignore it.

And so what if #28 is speaking from experience? That probably gives his/her views some relevance. I don't mind admitting I've been there - a selfish partner like that is simply setting herself (and him) up for major emotional pain.


Now YOU'RE instigating. :)
"He says it's because I don't instigate sex enough. There is some truth to this but he knows I'm a tad passive."

This sounds like my marriage. When we dug into the roots of a "tad passive", my wife discovered that she resented me, was angry with me, repelled by me, and generally had wanted out (subconsciously) for years. Good times.

SIL might want to examine her true feelings more deeply. I personally would resent a personally who lets me be bisexual as long as there's no emotional attachment.
Oh, bittch is fat...
Dump him.

I'm 42 and my fiancee and I knock boots regularly. Neither one of us is in perfect physical shape, and neither of us is hung up on body issues. We just love the hell out of good sex, and out of each other. (FTR, she's in her early 30s and I am the most spectacularly fortunate man on the planet. And I ain't just saying that. This woman is a saint.)

The point is that as we age, we do NOT necessarily have a diminished libido, and we do NOT necessarily have body issues with ourselves or our lovers. Every person is different, and every relationship is as well.

SIL doesn't need to lose weight. She needs to take up with someone who can and will continue to give her the sexual satisfaction that is her birthright as a woman and as a human being.

SIL's fiance sounds like a domineering, passive-aggressive, controlling little bitch with serious issues, like possibly even fetish-serious. If he's willing to jeopardize a relationship with someone he's known for years over a bit of cellulite, all it means is that he's not worth the chemicals that his body metabolizes to keep him alive.

Hell's sake. He's got SIL so wrapped up that she's ready to take all the blame for all the ills in the relationship, and that makes him the sine qua non of shitheads. Yes, SIL, something is wrong - but it's not with you.

If dumping him is too harsh, then consider telling him that if he does not get his crap in one coil, immediately, he WILL be dumped by the end of the month.

He'd damn well better figure out what's wrong, and figure it out fast, or he won't have to worry about wanting to have sex with you at all. You'll be off getting off with someone else, and he'll be pawing his pud in his saggy stained BVDs.

Which, if he does not straighten out, is precisely what he deserves.

No tolerance for male assholery. None whatsoever.
I can't speak for this lady, but if I were her I'd look for someone else. I don't need that kind of manipulative bullshit.
@44- Reading comprehension fail.

I asked if it was because I've put on a little weight and he denies it. He says it's because I don't instigate sex enough.
"the lack of communication in this one would be a breeding ground for disaster if he was allowed to act on his wandering eye while claiming to be "too tired" to get it up for his primary."

From his perspective, isn't that more or less what she is doing?
It was also hard for me to learn to initiate sex more often, but it does lead to great sex. I learned something about myself, too: I used to resent that I didn't know he'd want sex until five minutes before he wanted it. It takes me longer to get ramped up, so I prefer having all afternoon to get excited about the prospect of sex at night. Now I've realized that if I'm the one initiating, I can just get myself excited all day, and then let him know. On the other hand, now thinking about sex takes up about all my afternoons... And, yes, sometimes I get turned down, and that sucks, but hey, that's what internet porn is for.
PS, Thanks, Canuck, for the recommendations for sexy novels in that other thread.
47- she's bisexual, she likes men (him) and women. He can't possibly be a woman for her. Hell, he's so damned lazy sexually that he can't be bothered to put forth the effort to pretend to find her attractive. "He says he doesn't think about sex until he wants it, so if there's any prep work that has to go into it he can't do it. He'd rather just masturbate and get it over with." What the fuck is that? Foreplay, grooming, basic attentiveness? Too much work? Why does she even want to fuck him?

Why on earth would these two people even be considering marriage?

I hardly know where to start.
Yes I do: do NOT marry this man.
I can't diagnose your problems over the internet, but I can tell you that this marriage is DOOMED.

My guess is he doesn't want to get married.
Maybe he doesn't want to marry anyone; maybe he just doesn't want to marry you.
Either way, he shouldn't marry you and you shouldn't marry him.

You write
He says he doesn't think about sex until he wants it, so if there's any prep work that has to go into it he can't do it. He'd rather just masturbate and get it over with.
I call bullshit. That's not how the male sexual response works. And looky here...
I've become very insecure when he checks out other women [...] He [...] constantly views attractive women in a sexual manner. that's not how his sexual response works, either.

Are you overthinking this? Yes. Stop thinking and call it off.

Or not. I mean, someone has to feed divorce lawyers' kids, right?
Don't get married. Just don't. My other half never initiates and it is damn depressing. Do NOT get married to this man.
#49: 1) The gender of the outside partner is irrelevant. She wants a FWB arrangement, i.e., sex with someone other than him. And since she is bisexual, she could potentially leave him for this new person. Just like he could potentially leave her for another sex partner of his choosing. There's the "wandering eye" part of it.

2) She isn't all that interested in sex with him unless he pumps up her libido (more like her ego) first. There's the "too tired to get it up for [him]" part.

I think in this case "prep work" happens to include being unable to avoid thinking about the fact that she is manifestly not hot for him. Nice buzzkill there, so he tends not to think about it in his off-time. And his hand doesn't display a lack of enthusiasm in the moment, when he is thinking about it.

I do agree with you, however about the absurdity of them considering marriage at this point. Actually, no I don't believe that. The whole situation can be summed up in one of her own sentences: "I want him to want to have sex with me. That is where my turn on is and I'm not getting it. " I don't think it is unreasonable of him to want the exact same thing of her. That is exactly what he asked from her. But she waves it off, citing her fear of being too fat being the real issue, despite him specifically denying it. Why doesn't she try taking what he said at face value, instead of assuming he is lying and then wondering why nothing seems to be working?
Sounds like a serious dominance & submission thang yous got going on there... How's about non-gender specific assholery???

Funny how everyone uses their own biases to read these situations...
He came up with, "I'll instigate one time and then you have to the next time." Perfectly reasonable but it "goes against everything (she) love(s) about sex."

They're both passive fucks.

Don't get married.
"On the other hand, now thinking about sex takes up about all my afternoons..." Oh, honey, you ain't seen nothin' yet, wait till you read the books... ;) It's the same in our house, my husband has gone from complaining about not getting enough sex and affection to saying, "I'm not a machine, you know!"
Erica, you may like this woman's series over at Sexis, this one describes her "getting ready for sex" procedure:…

@49 & @50:
"He says he doesn't think about sex until he wants it, so if there's any prep work that has to go into it he can't do it."
You both see this as odd and indicative of his being a jerk, I don't.....In my experience, that's just men. The closest my husband gets to "prep work" is loading the dishwasher, and acknowledging that as *okay* means we're both a lot happier.

@52 Avast2006:
Your take on this is really good to read, although obviously uncomfortable for some people. I think we women forget that you guys don't want to have to do *all* the chasing, you guys want to know that your wives are hot for you, and sometimes can't keep their hands off you...we forget this (sometimes) and don't realize how hurtful it is until we get a wake-up call.
Was anyone else scared by the amount of numbers in this letter?
bisexual drama
She says she gained 15 pounds? That means she gained 25.

And yeah, 15-25 more pounds on a petite woman is enough to make her look dumpy and matronly.
""He says he doesn't think about sex until he wants it, so if there's any prep work that has to go into it he can't do it."
You both see this as odd and indicative of his being a jerk, I don't.....In my experience, that's just men. The closest my husband gets to "prep work" is loading the dishwasher, and acknowledging that as *okay* means we're both a lot happier."
Not all men. The men I've known know that women often have a slower "rise time" than men and may need a little work to get fully in the mood. Some men really enjoy this as it makes them hotter as well.

My spouse's comment when reading SIL's letter was that SIL's man will die single, with a strong right arm.

Twice a month may be normal for somebody with two small kids, but it can sure pick up again when the kids are older. Two to four times a week is more normal for us after 30 years together. Probably more when the kids are finally GONE.
15 POUNDS!!!

After 2 kids and in her thirties...

15 POUNDS???

I quit.


I give up.

For me, 15 fucking pounds is a yo-yo. I'd FUCKING KILL to be 135 pounds. Even in high school--i was in three sports and always dancing--I was lucky to be 150. Now I'm desperate just to get back to 170.

A dude will seriously play this level of passive aggressive bullshit--all these fucking excuses--over 15 goddamn pounds? A woman can gain 5 in water from fucking pms!

Screw it. I will continue being a celibate. There's no fucking point.

SIL here... :)

Just wanted to say that I sent the letter wanting an honest assessment of actions on both sides of the fence, which is why I included SO much detail. I'm not doubting I have responsibility and blame in the situation. If I thought it were all him, there wouldn't be any need for advice.

Also, I'm blaming the weight gain for his changes both in regards to sex frequency AND other flirty activities - conscious and subconscious. He used to check me out when he thought I wasn't looking and now he does not. Being secretly checked out does turn me on - a lot - to the point that if some random person checks me out at a bar it makes me horny. So yeah, my ego is connected to my vagina. I don't think I'm alone in this. :)
SIL @61

135 and 5'4'' is just really not even heavy. It's curvy in a way that's only good. You should seriously consider that there are other issues here - not just weight gain.

Keep in mind that the sexual aspect of a relationship just changes over time. You get used to people. The novelty wears off. You have to work a little harder to keep it going. You want your man to work harder. But you make no mention AT ALL of YOUR willingness to work harder.

My suggestion - talk to him and tell him you're willing to initiate more if he is. And try sticking to that. Your problem is summed up here:

He'll come up with some solution... but none of this has been maintainable and, honestly, it goes against everything I love about sex.

So. Sounds like a) you guys aren't committed to maintaining solutions that work and b) your expectations are out of line with reality.

Either fix the problem or get out.
maddy811 #60: Um, you did read the part of the letter, where HE says it's not about the weight and SHE insists that no, it has to be about the weight? Also the part where HE says, multiple times, that she doesn't initiate enough, and SHE basically blows that off and goes back to obsessing about the weight?

Apparently the 15 pounds in question are from rocks in somebody's head where the brains are supposed to be.
Is he in great shape? Does he need to lose some weight too maybe? You seem like a open strong-willed person and he obviously fell in love with that so play to your strengths.

#1 state the obvious to him by saying "We need to lose weight" and then #2 accepting that you are still beautiful with the additional weight but realize you want to lose it.

You are going to have to dig a little deeper and try a little harder and he will have to see that. If he doesn't and you need this to be happy in marriage and life, then DTMFA.
61 SIL: Welcome back.

So, your ego is connected to your vagina. Fine, no quarrel there. But guess what? It works the same way with his dick. (Gosh...a man's ego is connected to his dick. You honestly didn't know that about men?)

What are YOU doing to stroke HIS ego? From the sound of your letter, nothing. It goes against everything you love about sex.

Go read comment #28 again. Guys who feel like their partners don't fundamentally desire them eventually start feeling like their sexual needs are an imposition. They stop asking because it seems easier and more respectful to stop BOTHERING you. Also, and at a deeper level, because they are sick (literally) of feeling undesirable. I'm sure you are familiar with what feeling undesirable is like. What do you do when you feel undesirable? You...don't...initiate. If anything, people in this situation start avoiding the subject of sex around their partners, to avoid more pain. That would explain why he checks out other women, but not you. You are just too painful a topic at the moment. Ogling you reminds him of the fact that you are at best lukewarm to the idea of jumping his bones. Ogling women on the street or on the computer screen, on the other hand, is risk-free.

Again: you want him to step up his game. Fair enough. He also wants you to step up yours. HE TOLD YOU WHAT HE WANTED AND YOU BLEW IT OFF. Either make a commitment to giving him what he asks for -- yes, a commitment; frankly he has years on the ledger to his credit, which means years of sexual malnourishment for him that you have yet to make up for -- or admit openly that you are unwilling or unable to do for him what he does for you. I hope you don't choose the latter, because that would make you an emotional leech, and I'm sure you don't want that.
@61: "He used to check me out when he thought I wasn't looking and now he does not."

Huh. Maybe he's gotten too good at it.

"Being secretly checked out does turn me on - a lot - to the point that if some random person checks me out at a bar it makes me horny."

If it's really secret, you wouldn't notice.

So next time some random person checks you out at a bar and you get horny, you go home and fuck your fiance. There. Initiative: Gained.
When I'm reading this kind of letter, we always get to the sentence where it says, "And I don't know whether it's because I've gained weight... " And usually, I think: Well, DUH. Of course it's because you've gained weight. No one wants to fuck a fat person (except if you like that sort of thing). And that's what I thought this time, too. I thought--well, of course, it's because she's fat.

UNTIL I read her height and weight description! This woman is NOT fat. I just plugged her height and weight into several BMI calculators, and it comes up as "normal weight" every time. It can't be that bad.

This guy is jerking her around, and making odd hedges and excuses. If he was attracted to her at 120 pounds, he wouldn't lose all desire for her at 135 pounds, because it's just not that much more.

Lady, it's not your weight! Go to the gym if you want (never hurts) but it's not going to fix your problems with your fiance.
I also want to echo what others have said about the numbers. At 5'4" and 135 lbs, you cannot possibly be what anyone reasonable would consider fat. Even BMI calculators, which are notoriously demanding, place you squarely within "normal", nowhere near "overweight." So, either:
A) he has a secret fetish for rail-thin supermodel waifs, or
B) he is telling the truth when he says that your weight isn't the problem, and the fact that you are obsessing on it is in your head, not his.

Based on the clues in your letter, I'm betting on "B."
Hello, this is the fiance... or as a lot of you would like to refer to as the MFA. I hadn't even read these responses until a friend pointed out how stupid people are. I mean, granted, I would have to assume that most of the guys commenting here are just hoping maybe an awesome open-minded bisexual woman will DTMFA and email them for their brilliant viewpoint on the one-sided topic of someone else's sex life, but that's just my opinion. Now for the women... why don't we all just calm down a bit. If I'm still a MFA after giving my side of the story then sobeit. I mean, odds are I am a MFA, but I don't think so in this area of concern.

I in NO WAY WHATSOEVER think my fiance is fat, nor am I physically unattracted to her. She's F'ing gorgeous. I tell her this REGULARLY. I'm not denying that since I met her and she had her jaw surgery and couldn't eat solids for 6 weeks that she's put on a few pounds. I'm simply saying it's of no concern to me. At 25 she was in AMAZING shape, as was I. 6 years later of no working out and eating ice cream at 10pm+ 4 times a week, sure, she's gained a few pounds. But so have I!! We are total enablers for each other, but neither one of us have gained so much weight as to be sexually unattractive, in my opinion. Well, see, this is where we could argue. I think I MAY have gained too much weight. When we met I was 6' and 190lbs. Now I'm 210lbs. And unfortunately I'm one of those pregnant fat guys, so it's all in the gut. I find myself sexually unattractive, and she finds herself sexually unattractive. I tell her on a decliningly regular basis how attractive I think she is. Why is it declining? Because I can only be called a liar so many times before it gets old. (keep in mind we did both JUST START working out for the wedding).

"Sooooo, if you find her physically attractive what's the problem," you may ask? The problem, as we've touched on lightly, is that I've expressed EVERY TIME THIS HAS COME UP that I NEED her to initiate SOMEtimes!! Just SOME... once a week? Is that too much? Sh!t, how about one of the two times a month we do it now? When I say she NEVER initiates, I mean she's done it less that 5 times in 7 years. Okay, sure, she's attractive enough that she's never HAD to be the one to initiate, and true, when we first met my libido was through the roof and I was constantly ripping her clothes off. However, 7 years later, 32 years old, I don't think I'm being unreasonable by expressing MY changing needs as well. Sure, it may be feminine of me, but my added weight has made me feel insecure too. Top that off with a woman who won't express WANTING to have sex with me even when I ask her too, and I'm pretty much feeling like an ugly fat loser, which who knows, maybe I am.

For the one pseudo-intelligent person who stopped to consider that there may be a second side to this whole thing and wanted to know what happens when she DOES initiate... I can tell you that when she comes on to me (not that I have a lot of experience here) I JUMP to the occasion. Never ONCE have I declined an advance. Now, HER on the other hand, and getting more to the point of why I've stopped being overly aggressive.... I can only get shot down so many times before - yeah - I'd rather just masturbate and get it over with. I don't think she really LIKES to have sex (at least with men, even though I think in the moment she really DOES enjoy herself), I think she just more so doesn't like the IDEA of being in a sexless relationship. And by the by, her asking me to flirt with her to get her in the mood isn't just a few notes right before the deed. She wants me to text/chat with her throughout the day so that 9 hours later when she finally gets home she'll be wanting it. Of course then she wants me to set up candles in the room and what have you. Like, really?

I get it ladies, I DO. We all want an over-the-top romantic mate at least some of the time. The problem is, ladies, none of YOU expect to have to DO anything. You just want to lay back and have it all done for you. I've never been overly romantic so it's not like I'm taking anything away in that department. I admit, and so would she, that I am really good in bed, and I do LOVE sex with her. Every time we do it I always ask "why don't we do that more often??" However, being that we're both strong headed individuals I'm just not jumping through circus hoops for hours on end by coming up with new "material" to make her WANT to have sex with me. I simply don't need it that badly. Again - I'm 32, been with the same girl more or less (we did take 2 years off) for 7 years, and she wants me to prepare for sex and initiate it for a solid day prior to having it?? Enh, yeah, I'd rather just jerk off. If she's so concerned about our sex life, then why the hell can't she suck it up and just come on to me now and again?? Not EVERY TIME, just now and again. I've told her she doesn't even have to do anything. We can come up with a code word like "Banana Bread." She says the code word and I'll do the rest. Just give me SOME idea that you ever even WANT to have sex!! But I get nothing!

I mean, can I at least get props for accepting masturbation? It's not like I'm cheating on her, or ever would. When we first met she practically forced me to point out girls I found attractive, something I was NOT used to coming from a woman. I was used to dating insecure women, like most men are, and with those women you're simply NOT ALLOWED to glance at other pretty girls. So, when she broke me of this habit I was free to look at who I pleased. Now I'm back to not being able to glance at a waitress if, god forbid, my fiance thinks she's thinner than her. It's really unreal. I'm available with hard c@ck waiting ANY TIME she wants it!
thanks avast2006! Some sense in this sea of ignorance!
In fact, avast2006, now that I've read all of these comments, you're a g@d d@mn genius!
this is getting interesting...
Interesting response from the guy's side of things--thanks for posting it.

I reacted badly to this whole letter not because of the letter itself, but because of the speed, predictability and certainty with which Dan concluded that, of course, it must be her weight. This is Dan's Achilles Heal, and no matter how many REAL overweight women--as in lifelong overweight women who take good care of themselves and are still overweight and have always been so--try to get him to see his own bigotry, he just doesn't get it.

And, again, I cannot tell you how infuriating it is as a real and lifelong fat girl (I had boys in college call my phone to snort in it ffs!) when skinny women obsess about their supposed fatness. So, please, forgive me, but I have no patience whatsoever for a 5'4'' woman at 135 being obsessively insecure about her weight. It's pathetic and absurd.

And I wish you better days if you have to put up with that shit.

Thanks for writing in, dumpemail424, if you really are the fiance in question. And I get that you're defensive because you've been under attack in the comments (although many people also wrote to take your side against SIL, saying exactly what you say here, that she needs to take the initiative). But why did it take you so long to get to the point? In six paragraphs, what did you say besides that she should take the initiative sometimes? Oh, yes, you said that she's not too fat, because you've gained weight too, and, hey, you're not "sexually unattractive." Except that in the very same paragraph you say that you ARE "sexually unattractive." So what is she supposed to think? Especially when your letter drips with other passive aggressive crap like that she eats "ice cream at 10pm+ 4 times a week", and that you're telling her less and less often how attractive she is, and that she wants candles lit every time you have sex, and that she should say "Banana Bread" if she wants to get laid. How sexy is that? You guys need to go to the gym together, or go biking together, or do something, so that you each like your own body, you each like the other person's body, and you do your communication face-to-face, with humility and openness, rather than passive-aggressively in the comments section of Slog.
@73: I dunno why you're so upset with Dan. He heard out the letter writer and just agreed that her *fiance* could be perceiving her weight to be the problem. He didn't say weight should be a problem, or that she's fat, whatever. He gave pretty nice advice considering people give him so much flak for "reasonable expectations" when it comes to physical maintenance.

@74: I don't think it's passive-aggressive if it's on the internet. I imagine they're both also reading each other's comments.

@69: I kind of sympathize because my boyfriend has the same insecurities. And no, I don't just dismiss him and say "Oh, well, you're a guy, it's OK." I just hope that you two laying it out here means you're actually communicating more than you used to (and not just fruitlessly butting heads ... again .... but on the internet) and this is helpful.
EricaP #74: Try reading a little closer.

He never said he found HER weight to be unsexy. Quite the contrary, he said that he found her as sexy as ever, weight gain or not. And what do you mean, passive-aggressive? It wasn't SHE eats ice cream at 10pm, it was WE eat ice cream at 10pm, TOGETHER. (Did you miss that?) The reason he calls her attractive less and less often is because she responds by calling him a liar. (Did you miss that too?) They both gained weight TOGETHER, and he still finds her sexy, regardless.

He said HIS weight gain made HIM feel unsexy about HIMSELF, and her steadfast refusal to ever initiate, ever, made him think that maybe SHE found HIM unsexy too.

Why was the comment about candles passive-aggressive? It's not unreasonable to expect your fiancee to WANT to have sex with you as a basic assumption. (Hell, that's exactly what she wants.) When it requires a full-blown mating display every single time in order to get her revved up, the message is that he himself, the innate qualities of his person, do not excite her, are basically insufficient. Would you want a mate that found you basically insufficient?

Regarding communications: he HAS had those conversations with her. Both he and she said as much in their letter/comment. Did you not read them? He HAS asked her to initiate, over and over and over. Her neurosis about her weight has apparently given her selective deafness.

But damn reading for comprehension if it means you can claim that he thinks she's too fat. Some of you are just bound and determined to call him a liar about his own emotions.
Yes, I think he's lying. I think he's lying that he's not cheating, I think he's lying that she demands candles every time they have sex and expects him to "initiate it for a solid day prior to having it", I think he's lying that he doesn't think she's fat. I was totally on his side before he wrote his letter. His talk about how they both eat too much, it's a back-handed way of criticizing her by seeming only to criticize himself. In my book, that's passive-aggressive. But, whatever, I'm not the one who has to go home to him. Doesn't really matter if I think he's lying. The point is that neither one feels worthy of anyone's sexual attentions, so they've got bigger problems than what I think of them.
Seriously? If neither of you is initiating sex, then how do you two ever manage? Just start masturbating and amble around the house until you run into each other? Seriously, if you're horny, get on your knees and start blowing him the next time you're alone. You don't need a reason, he probably won't ask for one. Get him hard and horny and then walk away. Make up a temporary excuse ("Oh, I should go start dinner," or "It's getting laid, we should put the kids to bed,") and tease him for a bit. Then do it again. Keep doing it until one of you breaks down and initiates something. If neither of you breaks after a week of this (Or, y'know, 24 hours), then call off the wedding--you're just not going to fuck each other.
@11 i totally agree. but only because my SO doesnt initiate and i, myself, am pretty bitter about that sometimes.
he will initiate if he wants it bad enough...and if he doesnt, then he wont get any either.

maybe its just time to call it off for good and just be friends. thats what it sounds like can live with someone, co-raise children with someone and fuck someone that you arent in a relationship with. i wouldnt marry him, though.
I'm sorry Dan, but we're talking about 15 lbs of fat. That's not very much at all, and could be shed in 3-6 months time. Yes, we should all try to look our best, and frankly, we should all try to be at a healthy weight because frankly, it theoretically keeps you alive for more fuckin.' It'll keep your junk happier too. But shit happens, like going to law school or illness or being stuck in a miserable job, and people gain weight. Hell, getting married can be stressful as shit, and the one thing I regret IS dieting before getting married. Almost ruined what should have been a joyous occasion. All that shit is stressful enough, and gaining weight is stressful enough, but to have to turn around and worry every five pounds whether or not your mate is going to leave you? I say don't get morbidly obese, but dude.... for better or for worse applies to your pants size too.
I'll just say this: the percentage of men on the planet who are willing (never mind eager) to fuck a woman based solely on her possessing a biologically functional vagina shrinks every year. As more and more men delve into the world of porn, we're learning that women can and do enjoy sex as much as men (although many of us soon unlearn the idea of the ecstatic female orgasm by the time we turn 30.) And therein lies the problem with this couple, IMHO: a man who won't initiate unless he's at his absolute best and a woman who's self-critical of herself to the point of requiring total validation from her SO prior to intercourse.

For Dumpemail424

1. Here's a truism: Barring emotional trauma, the more orgasms a woman has, the more she wants, and the less choosy she will be about the circumstances in which she receives them. If you don't believe me, do an Internet search for Harry Potter slash fiction. When you're done reading the first horrible story, realize that the person (most likely female) who wrote it was either close to, having or coming down from an orgasm while she imagined the main character's feverish coupling with his various teachers, allies or enemies. Then realize that if the idea of Harry Potter being spit-roasted by Voldemort and (insert other disgusting or evil character here) is enough to get a woman's juices flowing, you (I'm assuming that you have a working brain and functional hands) should be able to get her going and keep her going long enough to satisfy the both of you. Instead of spending your day cosseting her fragile ego, wake up a few minutes earlier than normal and give her a knee-wobbler with your fingers from behind while you rub your cock on her back. 3-5 times a week of that action and you should soon find yourself with a woman who's trying to get the children to bed early for a "continuation" of the morning's festivities.

2. If my comment about not wanting to fuck her unless you're at your absolute best struck a nerve, get over it. Yes, I was talking about your twig and berries. If you're anything like the average human male, your erections post-30 years of age are not as powerful or distracting as they were when you were a teenager. So the fuck what!? If your dick works, then put it to work! Whether it stands at attention at the slightest bit of appraisal or needs a couple of minutes to get out of bed, it works without pills or chemicals or perverse porn, so use it! If it takes your imagining her soft hand around the base of your cock, her tongue licking the underside and her lips kissing the bell end as she gently brushes her nipples against the broad thigh muscles, a lubricated finger teasing the crack of the ass as her head dips lower and lower and her lips begin to meet her fingers in a silent but wet kiss...

Where was I? Yes, and that's why people put angels on the top of Christmas trees!

I'm so lonely.

OK, I'm back. I got distracted for a minute. Like I was saying, put it to her, dammit! At this moment in time, she's placed the sex ball firmly in your court, so play your position and get the game started already! Sure, she needs the candles and the lace and trimming *now*. A few weeks of almost-sex and she'll probably be willing to use a birthday cake candle and the excuse, "The kids are playing at a neighbor's house. Spare a few minutes?"


1. As far as his post is concerned, he adores you (even with the {gasp, swoon} extra weight) and he glad that you adore him (with *his* {gasp, swoon} extra weight.) Most of the people in this thread agree with my assumption (and his reply) that his main reason for turning you down and refusing to initiate sex with you is based on repeated rejections/aversions on your part (and not on his lack of attraction or for you.) Throw the guy a fucking bone already! You've commented on the change in your relationship since your reunion (gee, could having children in the house who are *old enough* to recognize "Mommy and Daddy" noises have anything to do with that?), so I'll assume that he's at the very least a serviceable lover. If so, here's what you need to do.

Take notes: Get the kids out of the house (sleepover, play date, karate lessons, snipe hunt, whatever.) When the kids are gone and guaranteed to not be back for at least an hour, start thinking of whatever turns you the fuck on (the last time he fucked you, the last time *she* fucked you, Harry Potter and his two buddies getting it on with the help of magic potions and Professor Dumbledore, whatever) until you're at least moist enough to take/enjoy a good fucking. Then (here's the tricky part) go to your soon-to-be husband and tell him,

"Stick it in! You can make me come like a fountain later, but 'SIL' needs fucked *now*!"
and let him fuck you! If he's in any way, shape or form a good enough man to marry he'll remind himself to give you all the orgasms you can handle at a later time, so let him have a slice or two without pressuring himself into making it "the best" for you! Both of you are going in that stupid loop: F feels bad about petty bullshit, M gets rebuffed by F because of F's petty bullshit, M slowly cuts himself off from F, F discovers that M isn't available because of his own established petty bullshit, F retreats even more (or decides that their eventual couplings have to be "special", get my drift?), M chafes under the strain of being denied physical affection on a daily basis *and* being expected to go the extra mile for what affection he receives, etc.
It almost always ends with one person in the relationship finding an outsider's legs wrapped around the other person in the relationship, and for what? Drama? Please...

2. 5'4" and 135lb usually means that the woman in question will have a) ample breasts, b) a pinchable and rubbable bottom or c) some combination of the above. Use those two things to your advantage and stop worrying about being "fat", because you aren't fat and you're insulting women with legitimate weight problems by implying that your well-within limits of average weight is equivalent to the weight of a traveling carnival's "fat lady". Pierce Brosnan's wife is probably 1/2 again your size, but you don't see James Bond photographed with the latest waiflike It Girl or some random club chick on the cover of your local tabloid. And to her credit, she always looks like she answers the question, "What is it like to be married to 007?", with, "I don't know anything about the 00s, but the 7 is wonderful!"

3. Stop putting up barriers. You're too fat, you need to be "in the mood", you need to be romanced and treated like a princess, you don't think that it's "right" to initiate because you're too shy, whatever. Grow up, please, just grow up. You're an adult woman, he's an adult man. If you want to get fucked/fuck him/have sex/make love/insert euphemism here by or with him, then put on your woman drawers and make time for the intimacy! Cutting out a daily cup of gourmet coffee (at $4-5 a cup) gives you enough money to hire a sitter for a couple of hours. Use that money to hire the sitter, then talk to some of your "closer" paramours about making use of her/their apartment or home during that time! Hell, if you've fucked them before and they were amenable to having your SO present, lending the two of you a spare room (that's away from prying eyes) on a regular basis shouldn't be seen as *too egregious*. After all, what are the two or three of you going to do, release *all-new* bodily fluids in that other person's area? Instead of demanding constant IM chatting during the work day, exchange sexy messages during lunch (or even better, send naked pictures of yourself to each other over the phone!) It may not be in your personal nature to be "forward" on a consistent basis, and it may *be* in your personal nature to enjoy the scenery (aka, romance) as much as you enjoy the show (aka, sex), but we men are simple, simple creatures when it comes to physical relationships, and almost all of us want one thing in life: a woman who's ready, willing and able to have sex with us on a regular basis without consistent levels of fuss or drama. And by showing a resistance to initiating (IOW, not playing to his ego) and adding extra frills to what sex you do have (IOW, adding unnecessary barriers to what should be a simple "insert cock into pussy until cock ejaculates" scenario), you're making a fuss of things. Stop it.



The ball's in your court. If you can't figure out how to get her to show you attention with words, then it's time to use more drastic measures. Drastic measures, I should add, that don't involve fucking other people or violence. You've got a brain, use it for more than passive-aggressive whining/senseless vilification. IOW, perv on your woman already, man! A few days of feigning/showing interest in her will go a lot farther than driving her to the point of frustration (actions, I may add, that seem to be driving *her* to make your few and far between sex sessions "special", re: all of the flowers and candles and sheets and candy.) Whether you realize it or not, you're making sex into an Dionysian mystery and she's responding to your actions. Man up and (when the kids are out of the way, even if it's only for a few minutes) show her who her man is!


Long story short, grab the guy's cock at least twice a week and you'll be fine. Delving into self-esteem issues (body dissatisfaction, fears of cheating, etc.) when you could do something as simple as unzip him underneath a blanket while the two of you are watching TV is senseless. You're an adult woman (with children at that!), so the idea of holding a man's penis in your hand and staring in his eyes should be far less embarrassing than receiving a Pap smear/having a heavy flow day during an aerobics session/anything else traumatic that would only happen to women. Remember, the male makes the moves and the woman shows appreciation/acceptance of his actions. If he's making the moves, it's your responsibility as a GGG woman to accept them if the circumstances are right (bad hair days, a failed test paper from school or the fact that your bottom isn't as perky as the 22 year old neighbor's aren't proper reasons for not having sex.)

P.S.-I don't think that the presence of children as a libido-dampener is anywhere near as coincidental as most of the people on this thread seem to believe. At least, *I'll* admit that the idea of children listening as I have sex to be a major boner-killer. It's a lot easier to feel sexy when the children are still within the age of "innocence" (read: unable to figure out *why* Mommy and Uncle "Dumpemail424" are making those noises?) than it is to act on those impulses when the children are old enough to understand what a moan and a squeal from Mommy's bedroom in the middle of the night actually implies. Getting them involved in some late-afternoon activities (preferably between 5-7PM) may do wonders for the both of you if work schedules are permissive.
Since no one else brought this up, I thought I should mention... having another man's children running around HIS house could be part of her soon-to-be husband's lack of interest.
@81: You are epic.
@81 - it took 81 posts before someone said something that made complete sense to me. Amazing post, Milbury, thank you for writing it.
...except for the angels on Christmas trees part...