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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
That said, I do get frustrated when I'm cycling through a downtown core and some jackoff makes a mid-street crossing without a) looking both ways first and b) frequently doing so with a handheld up to one's ear and an attention removed to some far-off place.
1922 was also around the time, I think, that the infamous parade spectacle of a hobo clown being bumped every couple of meters by a Ford Model T to the raucous applause of by-standers (by-walkers? jay-standers? heh). But the campaigns of the new motorists wanting a monopoly over roads and arterials began in earnest in the 1910s as these motor clubs began to form individually in cities. Cincinnati I recall was one hotbed of political activity for the motor club and an early victory over pedestrians and bicyclists, but I'll have to dig through my old references to confirm that. I remember seeing the political ad for that at one time. Nasty stuff.
Everyone in the situation is human, and everyone is prone to making mistakes. The cop tried to dole out a routine violation, had some people get WAY TOO riled up about said violation, and the situation got out of hand. It could've gotten a lot worse, he could've been a lot more forceful, but as it stands, it's pretty obvious that the girls involved were in the wrong, regardless of it being a bullshit ticket.
Everyone in the situation is human, and everyone is prone to making mistakes. The cop tried to dole out a routine violation, had some people get WAY TOO riled up about said violation, and the situation got out of hand. It could've gotten a lot worse, he could've been a lot more forceful, but as it stands, it's pretty obvious that the girls involved were in the wrong, regardless of it being a bullshit ticket.
@64: That's what I'm talking about. Responsible jaywalking should not be ticketed.
@71: Well said.
@30: TROLL HARDER, F@GG0T!
@31: Are you shitting me? I grew up on the North Side, in a mostly-white neighborhood, and just finished my first year at college on the South Side, living in a ~95% black neighborhood. Jaywalking is jaywalking, Lovely Linda. I see no noticeable difference between the rates of jaywalking by blacks or by whites. Again, you just seem to be grasping at straws in the misguided hopes that one of them will justify your resentment of people different from you. And all you're doing is making yourself seem like trailer trash.
@47: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wire…
BOOM SHAKALAKA!
@58: The sticky 't' key is the least of your worries. Lighten up, Francis. You and Lovely Linda are just as bad as your "kill whitey" counterpart wackos.
@80 has it completely backward: In cities with active jaywalking cultures, people become better jaywalkers, and you see fewer stupid moves on the part of pedestrians. Drivers, in turn, cease to expect that they can drive on autopilot, and they learn a much better balance of offense/defensive and always-alert driving than Seattleites have at present.
All you doubters, try jaywalking (looking for cops, which unfortunately detracts from your safe awareness of your surroundings) from 1st & Pine up to Broadway sometime. It's only 1 mile. Ignoring the REALLY LONG "don't walk" lights will cut your journey time in half. And you'll really feel the momentum in your journey (you'll never want to take the damned 49 again).
Jaywalking doesn't just improve urban mobility; it's ESSENTIAL to it.
Wow it looks like a lot of Seattle's wimpy white-guilt progressives are finally getting sick of the never-ending onslaught of Typical Negro Behavior and monkeyshines from seattle's teenapers. Celebrate all the amazing benefits of Divershitttty issuing forth from these unevolved people of shit color and size.
In fact, this city's still-very-real auto-supremacy -- lights timed only for smooth flow of passenger vehicles; very long don't-walk signals (often 90% of the light cycle); perpetual hostility to jaywalkers -- is why Seattleites haven't developed good jaywalking skills/rhythms.
My other statement -- that drivers too become more alert when not feeling entitled to supremacy -- was a corollary and was not a direct response to anything you said.
It's a small crime, to be sure. But when you jaywalk, you take the following chances:
1) you could be hit by a car
2) you could be hit by a bike
3) you could cause an accident
4) you might get a citation
5) if you resist #4, you might bet busted.
These are occupational hazards. Maybe they're worth it, maybe not. But if you're the one jaywalking, it's nobody else's fault.
I've lived a few blocks from your hood in Chicago, where there's a culture of jaywalking. I've lived in Pasadena, where there's a culture of crosswalk-only. Cops will ticket you here for jaywalking and also ticket cars for failing to yield.
Your argument is irrelevant for students near a school. No school, even in Chicago, would put up with students jaywalking.
In about 1982, jaywalking was common on Dodge Avenue by ETHS. Then two cars-- who were racing each other, apparently-- hit a student who was jaywalking. The student was thrown about 20 feet into the air and died shortly after landing. The street was caked with blood and feathers from his down jacket.
Immediately afterward, the response was "why was nothing done about jaywalking?".
The community in this case has asked the cops to get ahead of the issue and change the culture of the students. If the cops don't respond with ticketing, they'll be on the hook for incidents of kids getting hit.
The state and city need revenue, so it's CYA time when you're driving or walking around downtown Seattle. That being said, I'm tired of drivers being made to feel that they're evil carbon-polluting monsters. I'm also tired of pedestrians thinking they can trump any rules of the road because they're "saving the planet."
Seattleite:
I was wondering if you had thought through that statement. Making generalizations can always be a bit ...well, something you should maybe think through? so i'd like to ask you to consider that and also think about the effect of reading that on the people who might not have been the places you've been, we should recognize that their feelings are important. We want to make sure everyone feels validated whether or not they have had the benefit of coming from a I guess you'd call it a jay walking frriendly place or from around here, and we can all agree that it's wonderful to have the diverse cultures we have represented here, don't you agree?
Noo Yawker: shut the fuck up asshole.
(You pick which one is more real, honest, communicative, and human!)
But I'd honestly never heard that story before. Thanks, I guess...
I'll vent about another pet peeve, inattentive drivers texting or using their cell phones, some other time, but mix the two and you'll inevitably have tragedies. By the way gas taxes still pay for most road construction/repairs (and bike paths for that matter) in this country. I freely admit I may wrong about this since I haven't researched the subject, but anectdotaly that's how it works in the Loony Tunes Peoples Republik of Madison. Only took em about 50 years to build Monona Terrace (had to make sure FLW was long dead before doing something so sensible)
@105 said it best: "There are plenty of breaks in traffic. I don't jaywalk INTO THE PATH of cars. If I'm crossing against the light, I don't make cars stop for me; I wait for my chance. That's responsible jaywalking."
@113 also hits it on the nose: "Maybe then Seattle drivers will learn not to slam on their breaks if a pedestrian even lets her toes inch off the curb, and then spend the next 5 minutes maniacally waving her across the street, despite the oncoming traffic in other lanes that she'd prefer not to get crushed by. It's much more dangerous to have jaywalking laws than simply allowing liberty of movement."
@122, you also blabber that "cross walks and overpasses are there to protect pedestrians..."
Pedestrian overpasses and signalized crosswalks (which tend to grossly favor auto momentum at the expense of pedestrian momentum) are NOT there to protect pedestrians. They are there to make life easier for motorists. To the point of convincing most to give up on walking and remain motorists. Seriously, do you ever see anybody on these things? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paseoo…
I wait at Don't Walk signs, just like I don't run red lights when I'm driving. Jaywalkers are self-important, pretentious assholes. You so fucking important you can't wait for the signal like the rest of us? I wait. You absolutely HAVE to have that mid-block diagonal crossing? No. No you don't. Drivers have enough random crap to watch out for without jaywalkers wandering everywhere.
I also don't cross mid-block. I look for crosswalks. With Washington's "crosswalk at every intersection" system, there's always some tiny side street within a few dozen yards that provides a perfectly legal crossing, without even having to wait for a light to change. NO FUCKING EXCUSE to not use one.
This particular case. Jaywalker crossing a congested 6-lane arterial *with a pedestrian overpass right the fuck there*. And the cop was there in front of the school, at the school's request, to do a jaywalking patrol.
It's not so bad if they'd at least look both ways before jaywalking. I spent many years as a delivery driver in this city, and I can tell you that Seattle jaywalkers NEVER fucking look. They just stroll on out into the 30mph flow, and then smack your roof for having the gall to be there.
This thread is driving me nuts.
A traffic signal is not about absolute control. It is about taking turns. It isn't always auto-centric. The Easy-West has to wait to take turns with the North-South cars as well as pedestrians.
When people jaywalk without regard to turn, it is no different then the asshole that runs the red light.
If there isn't any traffic, why should pedestrians wait? I jaywalk all the time; as long as I do not interfere with someone's rightful turn.
I can't tell you how many times I have missed a light driving Joe Metro because some conceited ass not only jaywalks, but slowly. It isn't just the guy whom seems as if he ran out of meds, but more often it is the suburbanite with shopping bags and kids in tow.
Seattle has a true problem with a holier then thou attitude. This incident just drips with it.
That particular intersection has a pedestrian overpass. Regardless, hordes of Franklin kids press into the streets and run across. I wish I could count the number of times I have refused to board an individual because they risked life and limb to catch a bus.
There is always another bus; there will never be another you.
Taking turns is something you should be taught at least by kindergarten.
I would add that it's also proper for cars to yield in the winter, or during a bad rainstorm, when drivers can put up with a 2 minute delay if it gets pedestrians out of the foul weather a little faster.
Either the $45 jaywalking infraction needs to increase enough to effectively deter jaywalking, or car operators need to be penalized to effectively deter their poor behavior. I vote for the latter. But then I'd also vote for one DUI = lost licence forever or for a long time (10 years?) and also losing the privilege of registering a vehicle for driving on the road. Owning a vehicle, say for a collector, would be ok, just not getting current registration.
Clearly jaywalking has been an issue at this location, that is the reason the cop was there in the first place. He/the department was trying to change the behavior in this particular spot in order to improve safety and traffic flow.
These kids get a big thrill out of jaywalking slowly in large groups in this spot (I've seen it), hopefully they will get the message.
One for those of us who are white and live in certain neighborhoods, mostly north of the ship canal.
And one for those of us who aren't white and live in the rest of the city.
In the first law, you won't get clocked.
In the second law, if they don't taser or mace you, they'll punch your lights out.
Regarding yesterday’s scuffle, first of all, I admit I jaywalk. But, I am fully prepared to be cited should I be well… sighted by a police officer. I selectively jaywalk. I look both ways to see that there is virtually no traffic in either direction. It’s shocking how oblivious many youngsters are when jaywalking. What with gazing at their hand held devices and sporting earphones, it’s no wonder they can’t see or hear traffic. It is also amazing how many drivers drive in the wrong direction on two-lane, one way streets (Roosevelt Way NE comes to mind). I also use a pedestrian bridge or tunnel if nearby. I use crosswalks and wait for traffic lights to change to green to walk across a street. I believe jaywalking is an offense (not necessarily an incarcerating crime) to traffic and pedestrian safety. The law should be enforced. It’s there for drivers and pedestrians alike. Should a pedestrian get struck it is the driver that is liable. That said, what the two young ladies did AFTER the officer stopped them was unacceptable. I would NEVER shout at, evade and/or resist an armed officer of the law. They were foolish. The punch the officer delivered was in self-defense. He acted quite reasonable considering the hostile crowd around him. The two young ladies haven’t a leg to stand on.
Civil disobedience is what's called for, jaywalk everyday everywhere until the police give up on enforcing this ridiculous law. You are not required by law to have an ID on you while walking, so don't show them one, and then see if they want to escalate every single case. Simply state you don't have an ID, don't answer any of their questions and repeatedly ask "Am I free to go." If enough of us don't stand for this garbage maybe the police will be forced to do their job and focus on real crimes.
Race played no part in what happened on Monday. The "issue" of race in this incident has only been raised by, wait for it..... racists.
The cop did not hit the young lady because he is white and she is black. The cop hit the young lady because the young lady hit him first. And yes, he did indeed show a great deal of restraint in dealing with the situation.
The real issue at work here is Entitlement: why these young people feel they have it, the harm it is doing and will do to their lives. And, since the parents of these girls have come forward and said that, in their opinion, their daughters did nothing wrong, we also have the concept of Generational Entitlement to contend with.
Now THAT is a discussion with which we, as a society, ought to be engaged.
I also had a good friend get hit by a Community Transit bus on 3rd Ave about a decade ago; she was crossing with the light and the bus sailed straight through it and sent her flying.
Driving around Franklin HS during school hours drives me nuts, though. The kids have an overpass, and don't use it (ugh, stairs!), and crossing that section of Rainier Ave is a lot more like crossing Aurora than it is 2nd Ave, it's right by a huge intersection where there's rarely a gap in traffic.
Downtown/Cap Hill and Old Town Ballard are dense enough that it's not hard to be safe while jaywalking--and at least once it might've been safer than crossing with the light. That's not true of all neighborhoods, though, particularly when it comes to major arterials.
we need to return our streets back to people... motorists stole our streets from all other street users decades ago and turned our streets into dangerous throughfares exclusively for cars.
how about we start holding motorists accountable for murdering pedestrians. shoot a person with a gun, get life in prison. hit them with your car and you wont even get a slap on the wrist.
Source please.
Blood everywhere!
"
you forgot:
the pit bull puppy
being thrown at the QFC shoplifter
who was making up a new definition/name of a sex act based on a political person's last name.
Dan-Savage-brand mad libs are FUN!
The masses of Seattle sheep "waiting their turn" and then strutting triumphantly at a snail's pace across the intersection when they get their light cause A LOT of right-turning gridlock in this city:
1. Nobody jaywalks, leading to a buildup at the curb over the course of a light cycle.
2. Light turns green; masses proceed.
3. Cars waiting to turn right never get a window to do so.
4. The right lane backs up, often for multiple light cycles.
5. As usual, bus riders get screwed most, as they're stuck behind right-turning cars they can't maneuver around.
So actually, @124, that makes YOU the self-important asshole. When I (safely) jaywalk, I'm out of the way long before the light changes.
That would be a scary number if you hadn't just made it up (actual number is about half of that)!
And if New Yorkers didn't each walk hundreds upon hundreds of miles more per year than Seattleites!
For what it's worth, Boston has a MUCH more entrenched jaywalking culture than New York's (and even more aggressive drivers, arguably with better reflexes), and is consistently ranked among the nation's safest cities for pedestrians.
1. Don't start giving advice about how successful pedestrian cities function. You have no clue.
2. While you're at it, don't make any claims about how cities with public transit function. You have no clue.
3. Don't purport to know anything about living in a city where people have the slightest sense of common goals, think about the consequences of their actions on those around them, are capable of sharing urban space reasonably, and don't behave like self-centered pricks at all times. You have no clue.
First, if you drive, try making a right turn downtown during rush hour, then get back to me.
Next, there is a world of difference between jaywalking in downtown (at rush hour or otherwise) and jaywalking across MLK-Rainier. They built that overpass for a reason. But sadly, you can't tailor laws that way.
Next, remember that the cop was asked to be there by the school because the school was worried about the kid's safety.
Finally, yes it started as a traffic stop and it escalated. It stopped being about jaywalking and became resisting and interfering with an arrest. But the biggest thing of all: I don't care who you are, what gender you are, or what color you are, if you put a hand on a cop, you will be hurt, period. I think the officer showed admirable restraint in use of force seeing as he was outnumbered in a confrontation.
Right-turning downtown: see my explanation @145. Jaywalking would help, not hinder, this.
"You can't tailor laws that way."
Actually, you can:
"Jaywalking laws shall be a minimum enforcement priority, except in the presence of a purpose-built pedestrian overpass or explicit signage."
Or it could be treated as a secondary offense: only enforceable when the suspect is stopped for another crime (a jaywalk in a location like this may have constituted reckless endangerment).
Or you could just put a fence in the median of MLK, directly underneath the overpass, and be done with it.
Holy fucking hell, people who are all, 'well, if you don't follow the rules, this is what you get' - do you have any idea how many statutes there are on the books today? Jillions. Know why only some of them are enforced at any given moment? Because of the personal prejudices of the enforcers.
So, to all the stupid white boys apologizing for what you perceive as non-existent racism, the reason you don't see racism? Is because you choose not to. Also, you don't live with it every day, so you have the privilege to choose not to see it. Black girls crossing the street who are *punched in the face* for being aggressed upon by an angry white douchebag in a uniform ARE reacting appropriately for their circumstances. They expect to be treated unfairly by hostile white asshats because they LIVE WITH THAT REALITY EVERY FUCKING DAY. It does not take very many days of living black to learn to expect that pattern to repeat itself. Jesus, you willful idiots are the worst fucking kind.
Jaywalking is absolutely legal. This is the reason:
If I sail my giant yacht in Lake Washington, and toot my horn, guess what. All the bridges have to go up. Even if there are 500 cars waiting, the boat can stop all of them. Reason? Because the law is written so that the route that was there first has primacy.
Now, which came first...cars or feet?
See...every pedestrian legally has the same right as a billionaire in a yacht on Lake Washington. We were here first. If we cross the street, all cars should legally come to a stop. If we cross at the crosswalk, the light should immediately go to "Walk". If we were to cross I-5, legally, the cars should all stop.
Legally.
Our priorities for "justice" in this country are f*cked. We have cops wasting the vast majority of their taxpayer-funded time pursuing petty victimless "crimes" like jaywalking and pot possession - while 95% of our rapists go unconvicted, we have the highest gun-death rate in the developed world, and our domestic violence rates are increasing. The main goal of such idiotic jaywalking stops is intimidation, plain and simple.
Also, I'm a white woman. I've jaywalked a f*cking gazillion times in my life, at least a few directly in front of cops, possibly drunk, and have never been stopped. Cops make decisions about who to stop and when, and there's no doubt that intangible emotional factors, ranging from latent racial stereotypes/profiling to simply whether the cop feels like picking up that speeder or not, come into play. Random intimidation by cops for stupid "offenses" does not safety (or justice) make.
If a car is allowed to cross the road at a spot, pedestrians should be allowed to cross at the same point.
The intersection where the incident occurred is a nightmare. You can cross on three out of four sides. There is no explanation why you cannot cross on the fourth side and of the three it is perhaps the safest to cross on foot. The bridge is a half block away, plus a long spiral staircase up, and does not feel safe. The number of criminal incidents that have occurred as people lurked in the shadows at the top of the bridge is staggering. No wonder people feel safer dashing across the road instead. The road there has two periods where no cars are crossing, except in the right turn lane, and there is plenty of time to cross as a pedestrian.
Improve the design of the intersection, don't punish the pedestrians.
I have always been somewhat of a fitness fanatic. Now in my fifties, I can still dart across the street with the best. Here is a tip for you people: sprint across the street, then when you cross, just casually keep running, as though from inertia. Keep running for at least a half-block or so. I guarantee that no seattle cop, belly full of donuts, will bother to chase after you. I've been doing it that way for years and never once got a ticket.
Also, I love how commenters missed the point of this post. I don't think Dan was so much defending the incident in question so much as sparking a larger discussion about jaywalking in general, since the incident brought it up.
Dan did say the girls should have been left alone, but mainly because he generally believes cops should just make it a zero priority and focus their energies on more worthwhile issues. Yes, those girls were out of line and mainly just looking for a fight. But that cop's got better things to do, especially in a relatively tough precinct on the south side. Somebody probably got assaulted, harassed, mugged or robbed or had their stuff taken a few blocks down the street, and that might not have happened if this cop wasn't wasting his time trying to ring up belligerent jaywalkers.
Seattlites exhibit a deep-rooted inability to claim their space. This goes for the walking dead staring at the red hand on an empty street, as well as well-intentioned drivers dangerously yielding for peds out of misguided "politeness". Dangerous assholes will cross the street recklessly regardless of petty fines, why discourage the responsible ones with a blanket ordinance?
Be aware, be predictable, and know your/others limitations.