Doctor Treating Pregnant Women With Experimental Drug To Prevent Lesbianism

Comments

101
So does anyone know a gay 3 year old? Because I surely dont! Thus this would mean they werent gay from birth and thus it isnt something that can be cured before birth (not that it needs to be cured anyways) I am just saying I dont see it as something people are born with. Noone is born gay! It is something that happens later in life, unless you can show me some gay three year olds.
102
Who on earth would sign up to be a test subject for a drug that will stop their children from being individuals? And isn't testing shit like this on un-born children kind of, you know, anti-life?

Oh, my. Let's all just hunker down to heterosex, wear dresses, and poop out litters of kids who fit their narrowly prescribed gender roles. God forbid a woman fantasize about anything else. Conformity is beautiful. Science is hard. I want a doll to play with.

Thank you, sir. May I have another?
103
With massive overpopulation in the world, and huge global issues like genocide, oil spills, wars, starvation, AIDS, financial recessions, etc etc etc... should anyone really be worrying about women that aren't interested in procreating?!?
With millions of wonderful, productive, intelligent, successful gays and lesbians in the world should anyone really be worrying about the possibility of more gays and lesbians being born?
This is a sick mindset, corruption as deep as it goes. Just another way for the government to eventually control the population. Frightening! Not much different than when the government was sterilizing black women without their knowledge. I'm appauled!
104
Shit, it's the Stepford Wife hormone! What planet am I on? What year is this? Where is Rod Serling hiding? This is nauseating. And here's something not mentioned in the article (no doubt due to lack of research and information): besides intersexed conditions, the same hormones (androgens) that cause CAH and PCOS sometimes "produce" transmen and FTMs. So it's not only lesbians and career-minded females that may be eliminated or altered. As a gay transman, this seriously concerns me. It seems it's not just the "gay gene" researchers we need to fear, it's the ones that would try to make all of us "normal".
105
It all sounds incredibly unethical. I wonder how she even got approval for a human subjects trial.
Dexamethasone used to be used to enhance fetal lung maturity in babies which were expected to be born prematurely but was replaced years ago by another steroid; Betamethasone, which is far more effective and has less negative side-effects.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cg…
106
I have no idea who this Dr. New is, and she may indeed be an unethical, eugenics-minded lunatic. But I feel the need to play devil's advocate and point out that her comments as quoted in the article indicate someone who is merely researching all the effects of dex. Does she anywhere openly advocate the use of this drug in order to prevent a fetus from developing into a lesbian? That fact that her research might open up the possibility of an "anti-gay" drug is alarming, but I still don't see any proof that that's why she's engaging in it.
107
I dont know how she (Dr New) has the time to do all this - i.e. research and articles - surely if she believes so much in what she is doing then she should be at home with her 100 kids, doing the cleaning and washing and satisfying her husband.
108
"that will stop their children from being individuals"

But aborting them and stopping them from even being people….let's wear a 'I had an abortion' t-shirt and celebrate that!

BWT, what about cleft lips, should we leave those alone?
109
It's what happens when we pathologize normal variation. Some people still consider being GLBT a pathology, not a normal variant. Intersexuality is also pathologized. The Deaf community consider that they are a variant,not a pathology--though the hearing community tends to want to "cure" deafness. It's always value judgements.

But this woman is something.

“The challenge here is... to see what could be done to restore this baby to the normal female appearance which would be compatible with her parents presenting her as a girl, with her eventually becoming somebody’s wife, and having normal sexual development, and becoming a mother. And she has all the machinery for motherhood, and therefore nothing should stop that, if we can repair her surgically and help her psychologically to continue to grow and develop as a girl.”

CAh is a pathology, being gay is not... where does she draw the line?
110
Straight. Female. Celibate. Work in a university health research department.

Can't believe this. It's not science, it's not ethical, and it shouldn't even be legal.
111
@12 the only reason homosexuality could be a sin is because people CHOOSE to assume it's unnatural. Except it happens in nature all the time. They take what is a rather neutral behavior - sex, and turn it into something ridiculously over important. Sex, is an activity and a behavior and if people weren't so hung up on religion it would be like playing soccer or driving a car. Religion is A HUMAN INVENTION. And humans are idiots.
112
I've taken dex before and...it's Seriously Bad Mojo (it pissed with my autonomic functions); the thought of anybody giving this to a child is baffling. And for the record? I never once thought 'shite - I need children1!!'
113
Dexamethasone is a corticosteroid. Will you block androgens? Yes. Will you cause a host of other issues? Hell yes. For an adult person corticosteroids (and dexamethasone is a strong one) can cause osteoporosis, adrenal insufficiency upon removing the drug, mood problems such as "roid rage", and a whole host of issues. Imagine putting that into a developing embryo whose system is far more delicate. This sickens me deeply. We don't even allow parents to slob dexamethasone cream all over the kids with eczema, it is too strong but we can give this to pregnant women and their fetuses? How sickening.
114
I found this interesting:

"CAH occurs equally often in XX and XY individuals."
(from: http://www.isna.org/faq/medical_risks/ca…)

And yet it looks as if she is only targeting XX fetuses.
115
101
My best friend has known she was a lesbian since age 5.
Thank you and goodnight. ;)
116
If only they could give pregnent women a drug that would guarantee the child would grow up to be rational. That would put an end to Christianity.
117
Nice of them to prove the biological basis for homosexuality and that it is, in fact, NOT a choice.
118
Nazis in 2010?? I thought we solved this problem!
119
@101
Ever come across a 'straight' 3 year old? Little boy having sex with a little girl?
I think not.
Sexual development occurs around puberty, and most would argue that one is developing a sexuality that is already there, but dormant. Very, very basic biology.
120
Of course, someone might have said pediatric endocrinology was a "masculine" career choice back in the day...
121
Anyone ever wonder what size a clit is ^supposed^ to be? I did, knowing that as my boyfriend puts it - I have a BBW clit. (No I'm not fat (I'm a size 6), I just have a PHAT clit). I was born as a question mark by the way - I was majorly swelled and for 2 days my mother was worried I was intersex. My sister has PCOS so it's likely that my crazy libido, big clit, bad acne, lack of maternal urge, and my general sexual preference for women are all due to a very slightly elevated androgen level.

I hope it never gets fixed! Thanks Mom for not snipping me! Best birthday gift ever!!! RIP, I love you Mom!
122
Unbelievable! I can't understand why somebody would want to do that to a woman. What is wrong with women being who they are? Huh?
123
Well, fuck her with a telephone pole. The whole goddam article is describing ME. I have zero interest in babies, never played with dollies or horsies (I wanted Hot Wheels, goddammit), I've been in a traditionally "male" field for 30 years (it's still 90% male - I'm an engineer), and I'm bisexual. So I guess I should have just gone on the goddamned compost heap at birth.

What a weird fucking thing to be working on. With all the problems the world has, people are worried about a handful of women who DON'T want to reproduce? One thing the world does not have a shortage of is people wanting to reproduce. Instead of changing a benign (possibly even beneficial) variance from the norm like this, why not spend your efforts trying to eradicate a really horrific genetic disease?

What a waste.
124
...also, the idea of waiting several decades to see if there are unfortunate side effects rather sickens me. Ever hear of DES? Thalidomide?
125
Yet one more example of the criminalization of intersexuals, from the start. Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia, and the ambiguous genitalia that sometimes occurs, is an intersex condition. We're already subjected to hormone treatments, surgery, and psychological attempts at "normalization" without our expressed consent as it stands, now! This crazy bitch comes along and takes all that one step further?! This is nothing short of an OUTRAGE! Funny, isn't it? That, under typical circumstances, people like this would be considered to have a particularly harmful form of Obsessive/Compulsive Disorder. However, if they run in conservative circles and serve those particularly inhumane ideals, then all is well. How can we honestly allow this any longer?
126
What do you expect from a society that smiles upon killing a child in the womb? They are either people or not, make up your mind.
127
Josef Mengele reincarnated????
128
Well what IDIOT mother would allow experiments to be done???!!! As far as the pre-destination...I played with dolls..went to prom...cheerleader...even yes...stripper...I am currently in a 17 year relationship with 3 children...a LESBIAN relationship...WHOA!!! Whatever!! God doesn't make mistakes in all that He creates and those who choose to interfere seal their own fate...so I'm not too worried about this "science" progressing...People playing God will get what's coming to them...
129
Hmmmmm but just think of what could happen if a cell of gay Terrorists got our… their hands on these drugs. We could use the hormones to create a legion of little nelly boy births!
130
As a wife, and a mother, and a homemaker, I find this study completely fucking offensive. I chose this lifestyle for myself, without some drug dictating that I should. Does that make me "normal"? Or does that make me a person who exercised their right to free choice and decided on a course for my life?

People who aren't wives, or mothers, or homemakers are not abnormal. They simply chose a different lifestyle for themselves than I did. That makes them just as normal as I am. Just as much a person exercising their right to choose what they do with their life.

I really don't give a shit if my kids (two boys and a girl) turn out gay, straight, pansexual or asexual. As long as they're happy, I'll be content with that.
131
@ TubularEverything - First of all, we don't SMILE on abortion. I'm a member of the "Pro-Choice" crowd that believes that it is the woman's choice (though, hopefully, she consults the father and considers his wishes, as well) whether to have a child or not. The planet is over-populated and no child deserves to be brought up in a household where they are unwanted; nor should a woman be forced to raise a child conceived during a rape if she doesn't want to be constantly reminded of a horrible experience. However, I do not support in-utero experimentation and abortion of a child for frivolous reasons (such as the possibility the child could be intersexed, which is happening!). This attempt to heterosexualize people is just sickening! Live and LET LIVE. Whatever happened to that?
132
@ 130 - Funny that you failed to mention possible intersexual or even transgendered when you said that. Don't misread me, though. Your statements are virtuous, nonetheless. I'd probably love being your kid. ;)
133
How on earth can this be medically ethical? Hasn't this woman ever heard of Joseph Mengala I am not a lipstick lesbian (though I more on the femme side) nor a "butch" lesbian -- What is her explanation for women like me? I chose not to have children -- because my father beat the crap out of me and I did not want to perpetuate the cycle. I also have never had a desire to be pregnant with all the "horrors" that entails. I have no interest in taking care of a screaming baby, changing diapers, -- I admire those that do but I am selfish with my time, energy, and resources -- WHY would I subject a child to my selfishness -- we have enough straight people in the world that do that. I have always worked "pink collar" jobs nothing that would be considered outside the norm. I chose not to marry because I didn't want someone else taking my hard earned money and now the government tells me I can't. I have one baccalaureate degree and working on a second -- So according to this "doctor" (and I use that term very very very loosely) because of my independent thinking qualities I'm not a real woman -- Well F*CK you. I am happy and healthy and don't need her to say otherwise. Once again the government/doctors don't always know best and can't fix everything -- and need to stay out of a woman's reproductive system.
134
@132 I don't often run into those conditions, so I don't think about them often. That said, I do have a friend (we've lost touch somewhat, being so far apart these days) who was born a hermaphrodite, but was raised male. I didn't know about this for a long time. So it was something of a paradigm shift when he finally told me he felt like a she, and I've tried to make it as best I can. (She understands my occasional slips with pronouns, since I met her as a him. :)

How can I do less for my kids?

Intersex is not something I think I'll ever have to help my kids deal with personally. They seem to be fairly physically "normal" (though I HATE to phrase it like that, I can't think of another way). Transgendered? Maybe. But if something happens during puberty (still some years away), I'll cross that bridge when it comes. I haven't been in that situation as a parent (though I have with being a friend.) Maybe I won't handle it as well as I think I would, even though I'm a fairly liberal-minded person. But I like to think that I'd be okay with it, and help my kids as best I can to adjust and feel loved for who they are, not who everyone else thinks they should be.
135
"abortion of a child for frivolous reasons"

What, like you're too busy working, hanging with your friends shopping so would rather spend your money on other things?

Those all seem pretty frivolous for a human life to be taken.

"Once again the government/doctors don't always know best and can't fix everything -- and need to stay out of a woman's reproductive system."

Unless you want to murder the same fetus, then you probably want the doctor to get in the way right?
136
For those of you who believe Homosexuality is a sin: http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosex…
137
@124: Thalidomide was a result of people not understanding chirality. One enantiomer of Thalidomide cured morning sickness, the other caused birth defects. If you have the useful form in enantiomeric excess, it's a perfectly good drug.
Here, the potential problems associated with this drug are well-known. There is no excuse.

@135: No, more like women who do not have the financial or psychological resources to raise a child, or who are not physically capable of safely carrying a child to term. Stop perverting the natural function of the anus and get your head out of there.
138
" like women who do not have the financial or psychological resources to raise a child"

So what about women who don't have the psychological resources to raise a gay baby, or one with Downes Sydrome, can they abort?
139
I guess technically this drug works.. seeing as reading this article makes me go from not wanting to have children, to wanting to have tons of little tomboys and gaybies out of spite.
140
@132 Since my initial shock upon reading Dan's post, I've been reading up on CAH in XX fetuses. I'm now truly surprised that nothing regarding intersexed individuals had been brought up sooner! From a 6-18-2010 Time article, "A Prenatal Treatment Raises Questions of Medical Ethics":

The early prenatal use of dexamethasone, or dex, has been shown to prevent some of the symptoms of CAH in girls, namely ambiguous genitalia. Because the condition causes overproduction of male hormones in the womb, girls who are affected tend to have genitals that look more male than female, though internal sex organs are normal. (In boys, in contrast, the condition leads to early signs of puberty, such as deep voice, body hair and enlarged penis by age 2 or 3.) But while the prenatal treatment may address girls' physical symptoms, it does not prevent the underlying, medical condition, which in some severe cases can be life-threatening, nor does it preclude the need for medication throughout life.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/…

141
@132 Since my initial shock upon reading Dan's post, I've been reading up on CAH in XX fetuses. I'm now truly surprised that nothing regarding intersexed individuals had been brought up sooner! From a 6-18-2010 Time article, "A Prenatal Treatment Raises Questions of Medical Ethics":

The early prenatal use of dexamethasone, or dex, has been shown to prevent some of the symptoms of CAH in girls, namely ambiguous genitalia. Because the condition causes overproduction of male hormones in the womb, girls who are affected tend to have genitals that look more male than female, though internal sex organs are normal. (In boys, in contrast, the condition leads to early signs of puberty, such as deep voice, body hair and enlarged penis by age 2 or 3.) But while the prenatal treatment may address girls' physical symptoms, it does not prevent the underlying, medical condition, which in some severe cases can be life-threatening, nor does it preclude the need for medication throughout life.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/…

142
If this Mengele-style "doctor" would follow her own reasoning, she wouldn't be a doctor but be at home barefoot and pushing out babies. Or, at the very best, she'd be a nurse taking orders from her misogynistic jerk of a male doctor boss who pinches her butt every time she walks by. Oh - and she'd be wearing the Halloween costume version of a nurse's uniform that has the built-in push-up bra. This is Nazi stuff, people - why isn't this woman in jail?

Oh - and for the record - this childless woman who can't stand babies or small children, and is in a traditionally "masculine" profession (oh, horror, I'm educated with a PhD, get the net) is happily married - to a man. So, one out of four isn't bad, I guess.
143
what a totally screwed up bunch of women and the Dr...also....
144
@60 - say hell no!! of course. Only ignorant people are taking this drug I'll wager. No one smart would do something like that to their fetus. Oh - and though I'm straight I still fall under that umbrella - hated dolls and never daydreamed about marrying. Even wore boys clothes until I was about 22...
145
The appropriate medical organisations (American Academy of Pediatrics, the various endocrinology groups, and so on) have issued a statement that prenatal dexamethazone should only be given for congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH)in regulated, ethics-cleared (IRB) studies at large centers planning to do long-term (to adulthood) followup of the study patients.

Management of post-birth children with CAH has controversies, and the drug regimens are variable. To me, it would seem obvious that the major issues are dealing with the severe "salt-losing" kind of CAH, and preventing precocious puberty and the curtailed growth that results from very early puberty. Policing functional external genitalia is simply NOT medically appropriate for children and should NOT be the concern of anyone other than the adult with unusual but functional genitalia plus the capacity for true informed consent.

One question for New and Meyer-Bahlberg: CAH women have a significantly lower rate of fertility (in those heterosexual women with active partner and with adequate anatomy to allow PIV sex), and the more severe the CAH, the lower the rate. What happens if the prenatal therapy makes CAH women more "gender-normed", maternal, etc, but doesn't change the reduced fertility? The CAH women desiring children would simply face more frustration, and might envy gender-variant CAH women who are perfectly happy without children.

Short-term prenatal corticosteroids are commonly used to accelerate lung maturation in unstable situations where pre-term birth is likely. There's no question that outcomes are better in neonates with adequate lung development. There have been questions about reduced short-term memory in non-CAH recipients of short-term prenatal corticosteroids, but the advantages of good oxygenation (mature lungs), in terms of decreased brain hemorrhages and general brain development, far outweigh any possible subtle changes seen in retrospective studies.
146
#19 wrote "To what degree do we embrace science as truth, and to what degree reject it? Do these decisions change when we don't agree with the results?"

You misunderstand. Science is fundamental research with no predetermined outcome; the goal is to expand our knowledge and understanding. This isn't science, it's technology: using a particular method to achieve a specific outcome. We accept or reject any given technology by balancing the desirability of the outcome and the severity of the risks.

Those who want to geek out on this stuff (21-hydroxylase deficiency) can read

http://tinyURL.com/26lxzuv (The Online Metabolic and Molecular Bases of Inherited Disease)

http://tinyurl.com/27343l4 (Online Mendelian Inheritance in Man)

http://tinyurl.com/2fn6obr (Merck Manuals Online Medical Library)

The last of these says "Dexamethasone is used only in postpubertal adolescents and adults." They write that this drug has been associated with conditions such as adrenal suppression, immunosuppression, myopathy (problems with muscle development), problems with kidney function and salt balance, Kaposi's sarcoma, and psychiatric disturbances. A list of adverse reactions is here: http://tinyurl.com/2csp6hz.

On the website of the people who are doing these experiments, they write "Dr. New maintains contact with all children treated prenatally, and has found not permanent adverse effects of treatment on mother or fetus. Thus, with nearly 20 years’ experience, the treatment has been found safe for mother and child."

But Alice Dreger, Ellen K. Feder, and Anne Tamar-Mattis wrote "In the Q&A period, during a discussion of prenatal dex treatments, an audience member asked New, “Isn’t there a benefit to the female babies in terms of reducing the androgen effects on the brain?” New answered, “You know, when the babies who have been treated with dex prenatally get to an age in which they are sexually active, I’ll be able to answer that question.”

The Merck website says that dexamethasone has a category C pregnancy risk factor. pregnancy.org describes category C this way: "Studies in animals have shown an adverse effect but no studies have been done on pregnant women or no animal studies have been done and there are no adequate studies in pregnant women."

147
You know, its interesting that she talks about the "traditional mother and housewife role" of women, when she is a doctor. Why isnt SHE home watching her kids or cooking for her husband? in fact, why doesnt she leave all this silly medical stuff to the men, who are obviously better qualified to take over this position and do this research, because women are too stupid to know these things
148
Thats it. there is no God.
149
Now all we need to do is find a cure for Liberalism.
150
I remember a story from a genetics textbook where the women in this one village thought that if they drank bull's blood (ew) during their pregnancy, they'd be more likely to have a boy (which they wanted.) The high levels of testosterone affected the development of the forming genitals, and at that stage where the vulva *stays open* in a girl, the testosterone cause it to close over (as it does in a male fetus when the scrotum is formed.) So these were genetically girls, but the chemical had forced a change in the appearance of the external genitalia, making them appear to be male, although they were XY girls.

I would think that these babies being treated by Dr. New, no matter what levels of hormones are present, are going to be "hard wired" to be a certain way, and while the DEX may affect their appearance outwardly, what evidence is there that this will be anything but a cosmetic change?
151
Good fucking gawd, I can't believe someone actually considers this good research.
That's all we fucking need, more people telling society that childfree, non-straight women are "abnormal".

I'm a childfree, asexual woman. I've never had an interest in babies, I find kids annoying, and I'm a die-hard science lover to the core. I guess I'm a deviant in need of fixin' according to some. Shoulda neva' been born,what with my aberrant behavior.
152
So no more Elena Kagans, no more Donna Shalalas, no more Martina Navratilovas, no more k.d. langs, no more Constance McMillens—because all women must grow up to suck dick, crank out babies, and do women's work.

. . . no more Dr. News either.
153
Enraged. I'm not LGBT (well, maybe b, but I don't trust men), and I don't believe that it is as simple as nature vs. nurture aka genes vs. choice. Reality is so much more complex than we allow ourselves to grasp. I say this because I have clinical depression. While I wish it had not gone so far as to make suicide an attractive option, but neither would I be me without it. It fuels who I am, my art, my writing.
My sister has been the most constant, consistent positive influence on my life. Her acceptance of my condition, her being there for me when the lights went out in my soul; I can honestly say I would not be here if not for her. These people would destroy that about her as she is a lesbian. They would say that she is abnormal and must be "cured". She is in a long-term, loving relationship, raising a child, and all three are helping me to turn the lights back on. How can that be wrong? Why do they want to destroy all three of us?
In the end, it is not our sexuality, our skin-tone, our spiritual orientation, it is love that determines our humanity (for lack of a better word). Do not hate these people who would destroy love, but rather stand up for each other, reach out and hold hands with each other. Love, simply love regardless of the superficial. Please.
154
As a heterosexual male who loves women of all sexual preferences, I find this completely fucking appalling - to the point it literally turns my stomach. One earlier poster stated something to the effect of "I wouldn't believe this story if it weren't as well documented." I concur & am still in shock...
155
i am a young lesbian who is feminine, well i enjoy wearing nice clothes and making myself look good. im not "masculine" i am just me. i think that this research is absultoley STUPID! i mean who has the right to take away someones choice... even if there is a "gay" gene then the individual still has to make the desicions as to wether or not to listen to it and follow it through.... for example many gay people get married and have kids before listening to their inner self and comming out as gay. gay women can still have children, still be housewives, and still have a normal life. me and my partner will be having kids one day. and when that happens i do hope that society will be much more accepting than this!
i wouldnt wish anyone to be gay, but it is one of those things which you either are or your not, just like you either have brown hair or blonde. being gay is hard enough as it is due to the unaccepting societies that we live in. people who try and come up with things llike this are only making homophobia in the world more prevelant.... we need to stand up and fight for our rights.... fight all the time for acceptance... whether you gay straight or not quite sure... people like this should not even be aloud to carry out this sort of research... where are the ethics commities???? societies all round the world must stand up against this, and against this type of discrimination!
156
If only the parents of these so-called scientists had been childfree :/
157
If parents have an earnest desire and use medical technologies to imprint upon their offspring a tendency towards, say religious notions, heterosexuality, conformity and respect for authority then the sole considerations would be - does the treatment make for happy people? Does it make for productive citizens? Does it in any way reduce reasonably plausible human capacities? Does it have side effects, and if so are these side effects potentially detrimental? Having looked at these considerations and given an answer that liberates society of the concern for child abuse then I see absolutely nothing wring with it.

And bear in mind I am a far left libertarian or anarchosyndicalist.

Likewise if I ever enjoyed the joys of pregnancy, which I won't, I'd favor my own genetic or pharmaceutical adjustments. I'd vastly increase the intelligence, aim straight for good but androgynous looks, I'd boost my offsprings sexdrives, respective ego and confidence and I'd strongly favor bisexuality. I'd actively make my offspring experimental, playful, patient, even-tempered but highly passionate. If I could further than that I'd certainly would, and yes, I'd make damn sure none of the selected qualities would be inhibitive or restrictive. My offspring would be GREAT and FUN people to know, if the only consideration were genetic predisposition.

http://khanneasuntzu.wordpress.com/2009/…

158
Skipped over a lot of this, so I'm sorry if there's some re-hash. A few interesting ethical issues/arguments that I anticipate:

1) "It's genocide!"
The problem is, this can be sold as a 'deathless' process if adverse effects of the drug are minimized. Anti-abortion foes will love this, since you aren't 'killing' potentially homosexual females, you're just 'changing' them. Scary.

2) "It's too dangerous!"
Dexamethasone is listed as a "Category C" drug for use in pregnancy. Category C drugs carry the following warning: 'use with caution if benefits outweigh risks.' Vague enough? The problem is that TONS of category C drugs are routinely used in pregnancy, such as albuterol (the most common asthma drug in the world) and phenergan (common anti-nausea drug for morning sickness). With a vague 'benefits outweigh risks' argument, people are going to have all the wiggle room they want to argue that the benefits of a little endocrine mayhem outweigh the 'risks' facing a homosexual child who might have a big clit to boot (antigay violence! higher suicide rates!). Of course *I* don't feel that way, but as long as Dex is a category C drug, you're going to have people spinning all kinds of arguments as to why using it is justified.

3) "My parents love me just the way I am! My life is awesome and they know it."
Yes. But before they ever met you, honestly ask yourself: would they have preferred the concept of a straight child over a gay one? It's a painful thing to think about, and I know not everyone's parents are the same, but....well, let's face it: a lot of people don't want gay kids.

The only good news in all of this is that homophobes tend to be lazy. Old-style pregnancy is usually the path of least resistance. Very few prospective parents will have their act together enough to aggressively modulate their pregnancy away from a homosexual outcome. Most will just have sex, get pregnant, hope for the best, and then act like assholes if they end up with a gay kid just like they do now. By then, it's too late to do anything effective about it.
159
FYI- this article is only referring to treating women whose fetus has a specific mutation nthat causes classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) , which can be LIFE THREATING!!!! It can cause severe development issues in the growth of the child and ambigous genetila. I searched and could not find anything about the researcher using this drug on women carrying a fetus without the mutations that cause this disease. Although the researchers did seem preoccupieed with the child's sexual idenity as an adult, which is what needed to be discussed. If there is a genetic issue dealing with sex and gender that also has other health related issues, what should the treatment goals be? They should be most concerned with health and the happiness of the patient, but no one is trying to "cure lesbianism" here. Sure there are some stupid f**ks out there that think some aweful stuff about our LGBT community, but most scientists are not up to some evil plans. (i mean, its not easy sh*t, and who has several hours to brush up on their basic genetics, much less keeping up with all the current scientific literature that isn't doing it on a daily basis). I'm just saying don't beleive eveything you read on these sensationalist websites. They took a legitimate issue that should be discussed logically and skewed it in order to get a bunch of hits, basically helping no one. Dan, this story needed attention on its own right without skewing it so it seems like some horror scifci where in the future we will try to make all the women good little house wives.
160
If parents have an earnest desire and use medical technologies to imprint upon their offspring a tendency towards, say religious notions, heterosexuality, conformity and respect for authority then the sole considerations would be - does the treatment make for happy people? Does it make for productive citizens? Does it in any way reduce reasonably plausible human capacities? Does it have side effects, and if so are these side effects potentially detrimental? Having looked at these considerations and given an answer that liberates society of the concern for child abuse then I see absolutely nothing wring with it.

And bear in mind I am a far left libertarian or anarchosyndicalist.

Likewise if I ever enjoyed the joys of pregnancy, which I won't, I'd favor my own genetic or pharmaceutical adjustments. I'd vastly increase the intelligence, aim straight for good but androgynous looks, I'd boost my offsprings sexdrives, respective ego and confidence and I'd strongly favor bisexuality. I'd actively make my offspring experimental, playful, patient, even-tempered but highly passionate. If I could further than that I'd certainly would, and yes, I'd make damn sure none of the selected qualities would be inhibitive or restrictive. My offspring would be GREAT and FUN people to know, if the only consideration were genetic predisposition.

http://khanneasuntzu.wordpress.com/2009/…

161
@24- I don't care if the sex-robots make babies. In fact, I'd rather they didn't.
162
So, if parents order a Google Sex Robot to make their baby, you will angrily jump before them and scream *NNOOOOOOO!* ?

Why exactly? Might it be ahhh 'none of your business' ?
163
About a tenth of a percent of the population had the opposite reaction to the Dex. Their lesbionic response increased... beyond madness. They've become... they've killed most of us... not just killed, they've done... things.
164
Until we can acknowledge and embrace our humanity, with all of our flavors in tact, Science , religion, and society will look for a mirror that better reflects the image it wants to reflect.

I am a mother of four flavorful children and am quite flavorful myself.

Our world and our conscience demands that we continue to search for answers.
What will you do with this information now that you have it? Will you go on and let tomorrow's new's story supplant today's righteous outrage? Will you be vocal? act ?
The energy you generate has an outcome: how do you want it applied?

So I say :
Leave my gay straight bi trans body alone. Leave my children alone.Let them grow into the beings they will become. Within them lie the seeds of our future .
165
@163 - Miranda!
166
At the foundation of this conflict is the issue of informed consent/women's rights/people's rights and the medical monetary machine. To read more visit my doula blog: http://slolaboroflovedoula.blogspot.com/….
167
You know, I'm a DES baby. My mother was given diethylstilbestrol when she was pregnant with me, because they believed it would prevent a miscarriage. The experimental evidence was thin at best, and it left a generation of children with reproductive abnormalities, and increased risk of cancer. It turned out that DES did NOT prevent miscarriages.

Now they're mucking about with sex hormones in utero again, in a manner that may reduce the marvelous diversity of human nature. Especially female human nature. Or maybe not. It also may cause unknown harm in those children. This a completely unethical experiment!
168
Some in the Deaf community have balked at surgeries to correct their deafness.
Some refuse to learn skills that would mesh them with the hearing world, like lip-reading. The reasons why might have they chosen not to is quite a debate in itself, but one is an attachment to the life they have, and changing it would somehow shame the life they changed.

Would it be the same dynamic for gays? As gay people who have come to accept themselves and others as different conflict them with the idea that someone made them more girly or manly than they would have been- is that a hatred of homosexuality? Can you imagine heterosexual self acceptance?

I think I would have been grateful my parents tested me for birth defects with amniocentesis, taking prenatal vitamins to prevent spina bifida. I can see how these parents are having the baby's best interest in mind, although I was spooked by a GATTACA world.

By the way Dan, once years ago I read an article in which you said babies are "excreted". It made me chuckle, with my biology backround. Excretion is getting rid of the useless. Kind of ties in here somehow to the limits of your grasp of things sometimes- if anything, babies are secreted- the body producing something useful.
169
Dude thats just messed up man. Let the people grow up to whatever they are going to be.

Lou
www.anon-surfing.at.tc
170
I love you, @69.
171
you fucking nazis. eugenics.
172
It seems like this would be an easy study to pursue without intervening in current pregnancies.

After all, there are literally THOUSANDS of women who get dexamethasone (and prednisone, and other steroids) during pregnancy. Usually this is to treat a serious medical illness, such as intractable asthma or allergic reaction or auto-immunity where the threat to the mother's life is immediate and clear.

Why not just follow the sexual orientation of the children born from THOSE pregnancies, instead of creating a new experiment? It is an interesting scientific question, but the ethics become very dubious when you're actively administering steroids with the fetus' future sexual orientation in mind. The experiment is performed constantly by the circumstance of saving lives - let it stay that way. If sexual orientation is changed as a 'side effect' of a life-saving treatment, that's acceptable. Otherwise, it seems hard to justify.
173
So what's your problem? Who the hell wants a dyke daughter? It's something parents put up with, not something they desire. If women want to abort, let them (you're the ones screaming about abortion rights; now what? going to backpedal on that one?). That ends the whole gay thing once and for all.
174
Dr. Mengele is alive and well and living in the sickest part of the United States, the Bible belt. Home to the highest levels of incest, divorce, pornography consumption and more. I think we may have found a use for all of those old nukes lying around.
175
I had no interest in children, or being a mother until I actually had a baby, sometimes it just happens. I can't believe we're going into this territory, Maria New is looking to get lynched by some really radical lesbians
176
Regarding the few nutjobs who come on here and BAAAW about supposed hypocrisy:

First, I know it's a huge, HUGE shock to the right-wingers, but most people actually DON'T LIKE ABORTION. Nor do we "applaud" women for having abortions (though we SUPPORT them, which is a concept you guys can't seem to get your heads around). It's both a last resort and a necessary evil. I can guarantee you that 100% of level-headed women who had abortions would, if given the choice between getting an abortion and not getting pregnant in the first place, would choose not getting pregnant.

Second, here's the funny thing: if you have an abortion, your kid doesn't have to live with the consequences. If you mess them up because you just wanted them to turn out normal, they pay the price for your mistake. See also: botched circumcision, female genital mutilation, corrective surgery for the intersexed, etc.

Now, I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be looking out for the health of their child. But being gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, intersexed (with exceptions), uninterested in reproduction, or good at mathematics does not inherently damage someone's health - in fact, in the majority of these cases, the attempt to fix the deviance in question is much more harmful to their health. It is best for the child in question if these things are let be until said child is old enough to communicate any actual problems they are experiencing, and then these problems be dealt with appropriately. Unless a foetal condition is liable to kill the future child (or the parent) or to drastically impact his or her quality of life with no hope of reprieve - and hey, it sounds like CAH can do that - it's just safer for everyone concerned to LEAVE IT THE HECK ALONE.
177
Can Doctors spend time & money in something really important instead of something like this ... Be heterosexual or homesexual always been and always will be ... It's just being white or black , short or tall, etc. Human comes in different ways to this world... Can't be that hard to understand !
178
What happened to the feminist ideal that what a woman does with her uterus is her business and no one else's? So, a woman can kill her unborn child but she can't choose to have a daughter who is not a lesbian. Got it you are all a bunch of man-hating totalitarians who want to force women to choose what you think is right. Nice.
179
You all need to learn a bit of objective thought and reading comprehension. I must have skimmed over about 100 of the comments here and EVERY SINGLE ONE took the article at face value.

The author here has put a lot of spin on the article. Sure there is a questionable aspect in the whole danger of using the drugs - perhaps even without providing proper information to the patients - but that's not the focus of the article. The focus is in the title, "Doctor Treating Pregnant Women With Experimental Drug To Prevent Lesbianism".

Now read the article again. It's about a damned scientific study, morons. It's exploring the behavioural effects of the drug and despite the absurd way in which the writer proceeded with exposition, eliminating lesbianism is not some insane agenda harboured by this doctor.

The first paragraph is written in a way to suggest that the researchers are not interested in the physiological effects of dex at all and are just concerned with the whole sexual orientation issue - an implication that even the goddamn direct quotations fail to bolster. Yes, they have a scientific interest in how the hormonal differences can sexual orientation and 'masculinization' and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

Frankly, I sure as hell would not want to be born with gender-ambiguous genitalia. I think the most contentious paragraph is the second last of the quoted section about the Q&A discussion of prenatal dex treatments. It seems that the Maria New might be implying, by suggesting that some benefits may not be quantifiable until sexual maturity, that lesbianism is inherently bad.

However, I once again stress - SCIENCE: this is a scientific study so it is instructive to consider the last paragraph like this, with strong consideration of science and statistics:

If there were some set of conditions that led to babies being born with various physical abnormalities and also resulted in a much higher percentage of them being born homosexual than in the normal population, then you could put down the increased rate of homosexuality, along with any other symptoms, down to the abnormal conditions and subsequent development. Now, if there were some treatment that removed all of the symptoms and yielded in the sample the same rate of homosexuality that is present in the normal population, it would effectively have cancelled the effects of the abnormal uterine conditions. Perhaps when the quoted scientist referred to having to wait till an age of sexual activity to determine the benefits on the brain, they meant that they would then be able to determine the degree of effectiveness in cancelling the effects of CAH in ALL respects.

Article is disingenuous, sensationalist BULL.
180
THIS DOCTOR? IS INSANE. SHE IS A FEMALE HITLER. HE MESSED AROUND WITH PEOPLE TRYING TO PRODUCE THE PERFECT RACE OF PEOPLE AND WE ALL KNOW HOW THAT ENDED.
IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO CHANGE SEXUAL ORIENTATION IN-VITRO, WHAT ELSE WILL THEY CHANGE. GOD MADE EVERYONE IN HIS IMAGE AND HOW HE WANTED THEM TO BE. ANYONE WHO MESSES WITH THAT IS PLAYING "GOD." THAT IS WRONG.
181
@178, granted there may be some problems with supporting the freedom to abort a baby and opposing the idea that a woman could alter her baby in utero. That said, aren't there even bigger consistency problems with opposing abortion because a baby is a living human while at the same time supporting procedures that would prevent said human being from being born gay?

Human beings die every day. But perhaps our final freedom is the freedom to be ourselves. Altering babies in the womb is arguably worse than abortion. It's a very dangerous road to follow.

@179 It may indeed be science, but it is science being practiced on pregnant women without any real understanding of what the long-term effects might be both on the women and their daughters. That's certainly scary enough for me. The article may play up the worst of that science but that hardly makes it bull.

@180 Godwin's law. Now shut up.
182
What the H*** kind of stupidity is this now? Are there not IMPORTANT things for "science" to find cures for? Being gay is not a disease, folks. Good grief! Disgusting!
183
My wife caught wind of this on FB and had a few things to say about it and how it appeared a little out of context in the media:

J M C,
This is weird and difficult. Excuse me for a minute while the NICU nurse in me comes out.
Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia is a real and potentially serious condition that can be fatal and deserves to be treated. The quote that you repeat above, Beth, is likely a result of defective synthesis of adrenal corticosteroids and only a small part of a ... See Morebigger spectrum of abnormal hormonal development, including masculinization of female genitalia, which is a result of an abnormal production of male hormones in females. However there are forms of CAH that both males and females have. And the consequences can be far-reaching for the affected, both physically and emotionally. Abnormal sexual development is not the only consequence, as I said CAH has the potential to be FATAL. One of the treatments for this condition IS corticosteroids such as Dex. Dexamethasone is not an experimental hormone, it is used all the time in pregnant women, newborns, and pretty much anyone for other reasons. It is the application of it that is experimental.
The problem I see comes in a few parts: 1) it is not possible to diagnose all forms of CAH prenatally. 2) it is not safe to administer corticosteroids for an extended period of time to anyone unless they really need them. 3) for CAH patients, their sexual development IS abnormal by definition and failure of their adrenal glands to work properly. BUT 4) is their research on the possibility of treating CAH in fetuses (a condition that deserves treatment) being co-opted by others to suggest it is a good idea to randomly give pregnant women steroids so their child will not be gay or bi? (A state of being that definitely does not deserve treatment!)
They're talking about an actual disease here and much of it is taken out of context I think. Where it crosses the line to be solely about controlling sexual development vs. treating a real hormonal imbalance is hard to say and therein lies the difficulty. Thanks for posting!
*NICU nurse retreats*
184
What happened to women's rights? I thought you lefties thought that the fetus was just an inviable tissue mass.

In your minds it is okay to kill a baby, but not to have it born where there is no possibility of it being homosexual. Wow, you people are sick.
185
So, I'm probably a lesbian, or have the potential to be one-because I had no interest in babies or having children?

HAD, being the note here. My daughter was born in October. Before I met my husband? I'd vowed never to have kids. Ever-I was born the oldest of six and had raised 2 of my brothers. The way I saw it, I had done my time.

Until I fell in love, and my husband and I decided to have that experience together-and I'm glad I waited. But if you'd of caught me two years ago and told me I'd be a mom? I'd of laughed at you.

All of that, aside from the fact-THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING BI OR HOMOSEXUAL! Forget biological imperative! Have you looked at how many people are ON this planet? These people who would make women and men out to be baby factories aren't a step above animals. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS. NOT ENDANGERED PANDA BEARS. Let people love who they want, cause it isn't hurting anyone!
186
Sorry Dan, your title is dangerously misleading. Nowhere in the post does it say that the doctors are actually conducting such trials. It states several times that the doctors would expect to see certain results, or anticipate that certain results would occur if such a trial were to take place.

To me, it sounds like there were discussions regarding such "treatment", not that such "treatment" has actually taken place. The post is obviously misleading.

That said, it sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.
187
thanks 183 and others like it. this thread needed a dose of reality.
188
Dan, I'm normally a big fan of yours, but this post is waaaay off base.

http://bigthink.com/ideas/20772
189
Wow, well I really can't explain my deal then, hmmm... let's see, last night I hosted a Sushi night (all lovingly home-made by my very own femmy hands) for a lovely circle of lesbian friends. Basically love my domestic life, dinner parties, cooking, and beautifying my partner's and my little home (19 years now!); I read as STRAIGHT! all over the place, lipstick lesbian here! Very feminine and curvy, double D's etc... So, feminine-check, domestically inclined-check, 100% (gold-star) lesbian-CHECK! What would DEX have done to me? I wonder! Give me a break! This kind of homophobia reeks of eugenics ala Hitler, medical arguments be damned! This is a slippery slope, that we're apparently already on.
190
Aside from this being completely insane and disturbing, it would be incredibly funny if the "treatment" backfired and the babies turned out to be, for lack of a better term, SUPER LESBIANS and ULTRA MASCULINE.
191
if lesbianism is a disease, hook me up to a million oxygen tanks and a couple hundred IV's.

this is ridiculous.
192
Oh, sure, I don't like makeup, the thought of painful child birth, acting like a bitchy girly-girl snob, or crap like that, and they think they can just lable people like me as "abnormal".
I go both ways, but It's not cause I don't wanna "suck dick".
If I wanna be with a female, it's for anything BUT their vigina.
And, if I go for a male, it's for anything BUT their dick.
If you ask me, they apperently think little girls now days are so lustful
to the point they finger them selfs while imagining a dude getting them pregnate.
Sure, a teenager may like to imagine a dude screwing her while touching herself,
but who the **** wants to imagine getting PREGANTE at such a FRIGGIN' young age?
Arent there people who talk to children trying to KEEP them from wanting to have early sex?

The children only play with baby dolls because they want to be like mommy.
They want to be seen as a strong, beautiful, responsable(sp), girl who is seen as God in the eyes of someone younger, weaker, and needs to be taken care of.
When they can't be gentle, they will be forceful to show this.. mainly by hurting others.

.....

Thats why you get them a pet. >.>
And if that don't work, heck, their over active imgination will entertain them.
I know it did/does me.
193
My first thought was, The Stepford Wives.

This is pretty horrible. Indeed. But I also question their rather neanderthal concepts of what constitutes "masculine" and "feminine" interests. So much of that is cultural and not in any way genetic. For example: There is a gap in math scores between males and females in this country and most girls do gravitate away from math- and science-oriented careers. But in countries in the Middle and Far East, as well as eastern Europe, where math and science are not necessarily considered "guy stuff" the way they are, say, in America and the UK, female scientists and mathematicians abound. It is somewhat improbable that females in those cultures would be more genetically drawn to math and science than women here. So the gap here is obviously cultural.

And the idea of medicine as a "guy" profession is also not universal. In Switzerland, for example, over 70% of the doctors are women. And this is a country where women didn't even get the right to VOTE until 1970. So go figure.
194
U bitches making out like you the only ones taken it up the @ss

Wake up and smell the coffee ..... this shit is goin on every where,.,,

Chemtrails.... floridization...chloride.... vacination..... trumped up wars .... enviro shit eugenics.... offsourcing jobs.... Obama change ...... labratory aids swine flus.. this is just the surface.... cfr.... global 2000...... debasing the constitution.... depopulation..... get off your whiny shit and have some coffee....
195
Agree with @sshole... nothing like a dick up your ass, after a cup of coffee... lol.
196
Bollocks. What a biased beat up. We have escalating numbers of gay youth, there is no cultural formula at work trying to end homosexuality, quite the opposite.
If the author rates Elena Kagan as a role model for lesbians, then I can only imagine the author lacks any serious discernment.
Gays and Lesbians relax, heterosexuality is heading into negative territory, give it a generation and you'll have a tough time locating a Hetero couple. Sit coms will appear, in which the gay community of a small town must come to accept the odd practices of a married hetero couple.
There will be set piece routines, where a lesbian couple get confused over the meaning of archaic hetero 'speak', hilarity ensues. Another running gag will be the homosexual guy misinterprets Hetero mans friendliness as a come on, after all, every one is gay deep down. Things get hot on a camping trip, but in the end, Gay guy understands the mix up, and regular transmissions resume.
What would really rock the boat is a chemical compound that encourages free speech and common sense,...now that would F**K up everything.
197
Science and techonology are going to offer to change a lot of things about the human condition in the near future.
Get used to it. This is the next phase of evolution - enhancing/modifying our offspring.
Steven Hawking is all for it - in fact he thinks its our only way out of our current mess.
Think about it, if we could engineer our offspring to be free of cancer, mental illness, stupidity, etc., we would save a lot of money on health care.
Economics will eventually drive it. Sure it will have to be regulated.
And if you could treat your child during pregnancy to ensure they are not gay, what parents wouldn't. It would bring down the cost of HIV treatments in a major way.
In the end, its the choice of the parents.
And if the big pharms can make money off it, they will sell it!
I'm all for gay rights, but if I could ensure my future children wouldn't be gay, sure I would do it.
And I think most people would, too.
198
Science and techonology are going to offer to change a lot of things about the human condition in the near future.
Get used to it. This is the next phase of evolution - enhancing/modifying our offspring.
Steven Hawking is all for it - in fact he thinks its our only way out of our current mess.
Think about it, if we could engineer our offspring to be free of cancer, mental illness, stupidity, etc., we would save a lot of money on health care.
Economics will eventually drive it. Sure it will have to be regulated.
And if you could treat your child during pregnancy to ensure they are not gay, what parents wouldn't. It would bring down the cost of HIV treatments in a major way.
In the end, its the choice of the parents.
And if the big pharms can make money off it, they will sell it!
I'm all for gay rights, but if I could ensure my future children wouldn't be gay, sure I would do it.
And I think most people would, too.
199
BTW - all species go extince eventually. So do subtypes and subcultures.
Gays are not different.
Get used to it.
200
All women must grow up to suck dick, crank out babies, and do women's work.

Is that all a heterosexual woman is to you? Do you need a list of all the non gay women in hsitory and waht they contributed to society? I think YOU are the sick one if you think that all women who are not gay are just useless baby makers. Your MOM is one.