So, given that Fremont - or even Capitol Hill (Pike/Pine) - has twice as many bars per block as Belltown, how come they get the service and we pay the taxes for it?

Or is it just cause they have really old retired millionaires in Belltown who donate to City Council and Billionaires in their tax-exempt foundation buildings there?

I don't get what people sleeping in their doorway has to do with illegal hot dog stands...

Neighbors complaining about noise, body fluids and crime is HILARIOUS. And, of course, anyone critical of the Initiative is an old, grumpy NIMBY who should move to Bellevue.

Spot on, Stranger News Department. Crackerjack reporting. I smell a Pulitzer.

Well, you see, Jenny, first a hot dog cart sets up business illegally. And first there's mustard, which is okay. But mustard leads to relish, which is disgusting. And relish leads to vomiting, which is particularly disgusting. And vomiting leads to...

Okay, maybe I'm not totally clear on how sleeping in a doorway is related to hot dog stands, either. But are you totally clear on how they're not related? I didn't think so! I have had it with this situation!

I'm starting to think all the bitching matches your pictures.

@3, the point is people weren't complaining about body fluids and crime. They were complaining about homeless people, cyclists, street vendors and the nightlife initiative.

@6 - good. Let's fence in Capitol Hill for good as well. If you're wearing a porkpie cap in your DL photo, you're in. Otherwise, you're forced to vote Pro Tunnel.

@1: Because Belltowners are where all the Californian immigrants — those not migrating to Queen Anne, that is — end up in fortress condos.

Seriously. Street food vendors? Are they mental? Do yourselves a favour, dear New Belltowners, and never visit Toronto, Vancouver, New York, or Chicago.

And uh, precious New Belltowners, you're not living in Celebration, U.S.A. You're living in a growing, diversifying city, and you're just the last-stage gentry trying to push that diversification out. If you don't like what preceded your arrival, then I'm sure it's safe that this echoes many Seattleites' sentiments: it's time to go back to your country (of California). That, or get out on your sidewalks more often instead of your parking garages.

In the CD you have to worry about dark people shooting you, on cap hill you can beat up gays with impunity but in belltown you have to worry about illegal hotdogs. Clearly belltown needs increased police presence.

Hank is suing you for Clumsy Biting of Style.

Naturally NIMBY whiners are going to be overrepresented in these sort of meetings. An idea: perhaps if they did something like offer an open bar (or free hotdogs) they could get some more diverse opinions.

I used to laugh at all of the complaining about Belltown too, but recently I found myself on 2nd avenue at 3:30AM and all I can say is that the neighborhood really changes after the bars close (and not at all in a good way). There is a very serious problem happening there that doesn't have anything to do with cyclists running red lights or illegal hot dog vendors (although as an occassional late night hot dog consumer it does gross me out). Not to say that the nightlife plan wouldn't help those problems as I don't think the problem is people hanging around after the bars close, but you may want to reserve judgement until you have the opportunity to go down and take your own photos of Belltown at 4AM.

Elephants are riding bikes in Belltown?

Only a fool, or someone who's just clocked out of a bar/restaurant, is on the streets of Belltown at 3:30AM.

True, @15.

A lot of the residents are just upset that a lot of black people are there too. After all, that's why they live in Belltown.

@6, I think Michael's point is that you're doing everyone a disservice by making dumb jokes about neighbors in Belltown, when really, it's kinda your duty as a self-identified "reporter" to identify and present the issues like you have some modicum of respect for the subjects of your articles. Or, Jesus, at least make jokes that make sense.

easy @9. Cienna has it out for CD residents who air their grievances in public too. She's an equal opportunity resident hater.

How much you want for the dog in the photos?

@18: OMG, isn't that Cienna Madrid just a NIMBY-hating bitch? Who does she think she is calling attention to the mis-guided and shallow concerns expressed at this public meeting? It's not like SHE's ever found people smoking crack in her doorway or anything. Blah-de-blah-blah. Chelada, anyone?

#18 is on the nose.

belltown needs more bike lanes...

@8 word

What a handsome pooch!

Residents of Belltown should just start writing down the license plate numbers of bicyclist that run red-lights or endanger peds...Oh wait..they dont have to fucking have them! Oh well. Just knock them off their bikes with a good ole passive aggressive elbow to the head.

"passive aggressive elbow to the head"

time to learn the term passive aggressive, my friend.

@22 I just think it's a reporter's job try to get at the root of concerns like these before mocking them as misguided and shallow.

It sounds like Cienna is dismissing these folks as dumb NIMBYs just because they don't agree with McGinn, without really trying to engage their concerns (and I'm sorry, but I don't believe that no one made a single thoughtful remark at the meeting she attended). I don't think that's the way to make a case for these nightlife proposals. And it makes her sound like a shit-eating propagandist.

@12, 15: That has a lot to do with the re-development thinking more about sticking people up in the sky and not enough thinking about having people living in the sky also doing stuff down on the street.

Proprietor/resident surveillance — that is, watching your own surroundings as a warm body — at the street level is what A) makes the streets safer, and B) what brings life to the streets, day or night. Also, having windows (in dwellings where people live) prominently having a great view of the street aids to that surveillance. In other words, if a victim screams, people will be less likely to be witness if they can't see what's going on. This is why alleys feel more dangerous in most places. Don't take it from me. Take it from Jane Jacobs.

Further, when you remove all the functional, low-order-goods reasons people use the sidewalk — like grocery stores, pharmacies, street food vendors (whose eyes are also eyes of safety!) neighbourhood diners, and the like — then you are creating a barren canyon between the tall building where noooooobody(!) wants to be after all the street-side commercial activity is shuttered and closed down.

In other words, the very night life these people want to eliminate is what will single-handedly make Belltown's streets safer. It is more than an acceptable risk. Also, Belltown must boost its walk-up residential dwellings to effect more of the same surveillance.

@26: You don't see licence plates on bikes because every city which has considered it as a political response or logistical solution realize that such a system is woefully cost-ineffective to the point of being a massive money-sink. This doesn't even include the sunk cost of the massive theft of such tags (and escalated theft of bicycles). It sounds like an awfully tempting idea, but what works for the elephant doesn't always work for the mouse.

Further, registration licensing fees in many localities are pooled into general transportation revenue for the maintenance and upkeep of streets which are worn out not by bicycles, but by heavy, wide-wheeled vehicles.

@30 true.

Also, all bike riders already pay property taxes, directly or indirectly, that more than cover the wear and tear from their bikes, which is not true for cars.

@25: that there is a beautiful red merle australian shepherd (a young 'un, by the looks of it). Aussies are gorgeous dogs. And a little wack.

Cienna, it really doesn't seem worthwhile to explain your point to 3. If he's not smart enough to get it in the first place, what's the point in wasting the electrons?

There was an entertaining discussion months ago about Cienna's reporting style:

http://www.centraldistrictnews.com/2010/…

I love hot dogs , I ll eat 3 of them, with kraut while sitting on a sidewalk, and I miss Philly Pretzels, People who complaint about hot dogs usually dislike baseball, if you dislike baseball you're a vapid poseur.

@32 - I had a blue merle for nearly 17 years. His snout wasn't that long though and his ears were shorter. I still miss him.

Does the dog have an agent?
He (please forgive any gender disparity) definitely needs one. That face! Oh that FACE!

Last night's meeting was a great example of why no amount of money could persuade me to run for public office or work for an elected. How McGinn (or Diaz for that matter), didn't burst out from saying "you're an idiot, off the island" to at least half the people who spoke is beyond me.

Christ what a bunch of fucking whiners. It's the urban analog of people who buy property next to a farm and complain about the smell of shit. You stupid-ass motherfuckers paid top dollar for a condo in a neighborhood that you didn't even bother to check out. Here, I'll give you ten dollars for your condo. Go to Juanita.

I like the idea that Cienna Madrid is a talkin, typin dog.