I've tried Tina before, and all it did was amp me up like 12 cups of espresso, so I never understood the "it helped me to escape" analogy used by many. It did, however, help me to clean out my garage, attic and cupboards, all in one day.
I guess, like all drugs, it works differently on people.
I'll back Dan up on this. I've tried numerous times to get involved in gay mens health. I've got the education (masters in non-profit management), volunteer experience, work history, I'm gay... Should be able to get some sort of position. I can't though. The most commonly used reasoning is that I can't understand the demographic that they serve. I've worked needle exchanges, passed out condoms at bathhouses, and fed LGBT-identified homeless youth...I'm not exactly inexperienced in the demographic. It makes no sense at all. I understand the value in having employees who have been through similar situations, but there should be value in hiring those who have worked hard because they believe this is a problem the whole community needs to tackle together.
@11 and 13:
Doesn't matter, by the standards applied by Dan in this post. Once you've done something dumb in your life, don't bother trying to change -- to Dan, you're just that guy with the drug problem and HIV, or that bareback porn guy, for the rest of your life.
When I saw that picture of Brent Corrigan, I thought it was the slightly slow guy from the phone commercials who's been all over Slog lately... separated at birth?
I am happy for the people who quit using because this proves that you are not powerless over addictions. Will power is the most important tool for stopping the abuse of drugs. The problem with the addiction treatment industry is that they see the 12 step religion as being the only way out. The truth is that learning how to stop and remaining abstinent is the only step that is required.
Abstinence is the same as sobriety.
Here is a link for SMART Recovery which is one of several alternatives to 12 step groups. http://www.smartrecovery.org/
Here are The Orange Papers which take an extensive and critical look at the AA approach. http://www.orange-papers.org/
You are such an asshole - you insensitive...Karma will get you- Hope you buy flight insurance for your boyfriend and the kid - at least you could die and leave them something nice to remember you by...No that wouldn't be possible
Sort of a recurring theme for Dan. I think he once admitted in a comment thread that his experience trying to volunteer for a gay men's health organization was the same as #10.
I get his frustration: the message we give by only having former addicts and HIV-infected men head these groups is that using drugs and behaving irresponsibly is part of the identity, just something gay men do. Why can't we have gay men out there saying "I'm out, sober, and clean, and don't need drugs or risky sex to be secure in my identity?"
BTW saying that AA is religious is more than just my opinion. It is also the legal opinion of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals; http://articles.sfgate.com/2007-09-08/ba…
"Alcoholics Anonymous, the renowned 12-step program that directs problem drinkers to seek help from a higher power, says it's not a religion and is open to nonbelievers. But it has enough religious overtones that a parolee can't be ordered to attend its meetings as a condition of staying out of prison, a federal appeals court ruled Friday.
In fact, said the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, the constitutional dividing line between church and state in such cases is so clear that a parole officer can be sued for damages for ordering a parolee to go through rehabilitation at Alcoholics Anonymous or an affiliated program for drug addicts."
So I encourage any one now under court order to attend AA to take this decision into account because you do have options.
The wisdom of this decision by the Ninth Circuit Court gives me optimism about their coming decision on Prop 8.
Former junkie gets clean, puts his life back together, decides to help people in the same desperate situation he escaped from. Wow, what an asshole. Let's make fun of him.
@10, @20: I guess I can understand that perspective, but it seems like there are way more productive and useful ways to approach the issue than viciously attacking others in the community. That just comes off as bitchy and whiny.
Yes I am. The thread is in part about addiction treatment so I am giving my angle on addiction treatment. There is nothing inherently wrong with former addicts helping other addicts, but that is all that 12 step programs have to offer. A person who has never used at all can also help addicts recover simply by being a good role model.
What people need to get over an addiction is to be encouraged to use self will. Telling people that they must accept that they are powerless is the exact opposite of what is needed. If you make the mistake of believing you are powerless then you are MORE likely to relapse. Telling people that abstinence is not enough complicates an already difficult situation. One step, stopping is all that is needed. After you stop an addiction other problems caused by addiction tend to clear up. I don't even call myself a recovering alcoholic. I am simply a teetotaler who used to drink. I do not need to consider myself as in recovery for the rest of my life. I simply stopped a few years ago and I am just as sober as one who attends meetings every day.
Dan WASN'T making fun of him though... I mean, where did he say "haha, loser"? He supports people getting clean and having safe sex. He just doesn't support the idea that the only way you can empathise with people with drug problems and HIV is to have drug problems and HIV. It makes no sense. It's silly. I want to train to counsel victims of rape and other trauma, but I'm pretty sure no one will ever imply that I should be raped first.
(Edit: Actually, people probably would imply it. But we wouldn't really listen to them, would we?)
Linking to an article about a man overcoming a severe drug addiction to make this point was a little insensitive though. But then, I don't think pissing people off has ever bothered Dan THAT much, so it's hardly surprising.
Its really too bad that YOU (Dan) in many cases step up to represent "US" the homos of the world.. First because you suck at it! Second because most of us despise you! And finally because you have totally sold out and live the most hetero normative life of any gay I know!! How does the impeachment process work for someone in your position!?
Good for you, Dan. The leaders of most ethnically-based civil rights organizations are high achievers. It furthers the stigmatization of gays and lesbians for so many of their professional advocates to be such world-class fuck-ups. Thanks for advocating for the professionalization of LGBTQ leadership positions--there are too many under-employed liberal arts fags (and straights) out there waiting tables.
@17, 21, 26 Heather you make very valid points. 12 Steps programs are a bunch of shit. Started by the Protestants, its little more than a not so secret club that wants to wallow in their problems. It does little to actually solve the problems and correct the behaviors that created the abuse.
Before anyone jumps on me, tell me this first, why is there no 12 step program for Eating Disorders? You abuse food therefore you must never eat again.....wait a second...!!! Exactly, the therapy is about resolving the issues that led to the abusive behavior, then reforming the relationship with the instrument of abuse. And Jeebus has nothing to do with it.
If Dan is taking a swipe at the concept of only an addict can help an addict, he's absolutely correct to do so. A fellow addict may have insight, but thats hardly the qualifications necessary, it's only been there, done that.
B: Clearly, never using meth puts some of us fagalas in the fagala minority. Sad.
This comes across super insensitive.
I guess, like all drugs, it works differently on people.
Seeing people who do drugs and sex that way would hardly be likely to listen to someone who hasn't had their problems, better he should do it.
it is that time of the month......
Doesn't matter, by the standards applied by Dan in this post. Once you've done something dumb in your life, don't bother trying to change -- to Dan, you're just that guy with the drug problem and HIV, or that bareback porn guy, for the rest of your life.
Abstinence is the same as sobriety.
Here is a link for SMART Recovery which is one of several alternatives to 12 step groups.
http://www.smartrecovery.org/
Here are The Orange Papers which take an extensive and critical look at the AA approach.
http://www.orange-papers.org/
I get his frustration: the message we give by only having former addicts and HIV-infected men head these groups is that using drugs and behaving irresponsibly is part of the identity, just something gay men do. Why can't we have gay men out there saying "I'm out, sober, and clean, and don't need drugs or risky sex to be secure in my identity?"
"Alcoholics Anonymous, the renowned 12-step program that directs problem drinkers to seek help from a higher power, says it's not a religion and is open to nonbelievers. But it has enough religious overtones that a parolee can't be ordered to attend its meetings as a condition of staying out of prison, a federal appeals court ruled Friday.
In fact, said the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, the constitutional dividing line between church and state in such cases is so clear that a parole officer can be sued for damages for ordering a parolee to go through rehabilitation at Alcoholics Anonymous or an affiliated program for drug addicts."
So I encourage any one now under court order to attend AA to take this decision into account because you do have options.
The wisdom of this decision by the Ninth Circuit Court gives me optimism about their coming decision on Prop 8.
@10: Maybe you're just an asshole.
...wait, what?
@17, 21 are you on the right thread?
What people need to get over an addiction is to be encouraged to use self will. Telling people that they must accept that they are powerless is the exact opposite of what is needed. If you make the mistake of believing you are powerless then you are MORE likely to relapse. Telling people that abstinence is not enough complicates an already difficult situation. One step, stopping is all that is needed. After you stop an addiction other problems caused by addiction tend to clear up. I don't even call myself a recovering alcoholic. I am simply a teetotaler who used to drink. I do not need to consider myself as in recovery for the rest of my life. I simply stopped a few years ago and I am just as sober as one who attends meetings every day.
(Edit: Actually, people probably would imply it. But we wouldn't really listen to them, would we?)
Linking to an article about a man overcoming a severe drug addiction to make this point was a little insensitive though. But then, I don't think pissing people off has ever bothered Dan THAT much, so it's hardly surprising.
Before anyone jumps on me, tell me this first, why is there no 12 step program for Eating Disorders? You abuse food therefore you must never eat again.....wait a second...!!! Exactly, the therapy is about resolving the issues that led to the abusive behavior, then reforming the relationship with the instrument of abuse. And Jeebus has nothing to do with it.
If Dan is taking a swipe at the concept of only an addict can help an addict, he's absolutely correct to do so. A fellow addict may have insight, but thats hardly the qualifications necessary, it's only been there, done that.