Comments

1
This is one I really hope to hear an update on down the road. Pretty please, ASMAD!
2
I'm going to give the letter writer the benefit of the doubt and assume his mother is tripping his gaydar for tons of reasons, but mowing the lawn, fixing things and punching doesn't make one a dyke - that just sounds like someone who's a bit antsy and temperamental, and feels better when doing something physically taxing.
3
This cleanly falls into the "none of your fucking business" category. Would you like your mom meddling in your sex life? No? Then stay the fuck out of hers.
4
I'd wait until after the holidays for the conversation.
5
The lesbians I know will be rather surprised to hear that they should immediately stop trying to cook and go out and mow the lawn, and get in some fights. But who am I to say? Rules is rules.
6
@2 Perhaps it's a code!

Mowing the lawn = eating pussy
Fixing things = eating pussy
Punching people = eating pussy

There's no other explanation why those things would make someone 99% sure they were dealing with a lesbian.
7
I'm with Anne. None of his evidence is sexuality-related.
8
Yeah, I'm mixed on this one. I can't really say the listed reasons are compelling reasons. It might be enough to just ask/say that AND THEN DROP IT. I certainly wouldn't list your reasoning, either. Ball's in her court, and she might volley it back in a month or two, or never. And in either case you have nothing further to do or say about it.

But I dunno. I've seen a lot of women in her sort of position (perhaps, sans the gay son wondering about her orientation) and I've seen a wide variety of reasons behind them, including resentment at a marriage that wasn't so hot that derailed all kinds of other plans or possibilities in that person's life. That's a distinct possibility too.
9
Hating cooking=a dyke? My my. There are lots of us non-traditionally-feminine female types out here who aren't, you know, dykes. Just not traditionally feminine. You'll have to do better than that.
10
@ 7, 9 - Again, let me emphasize that I'm assuming that the letter writer is just trying to quantify why, exactly, his dear mother keeps tripping his gaydar, and there are more reasons besides "she hates cooking."

Of course, if the letter writer is himself gay, there's also a good chance he's just projecting and may be grasping at straws. He may also be looking for a way to excuse his mother's behavior, which by his own account is the driving force behind this divorce.
11
The woman is ending a 40 year relationship. This probably isn't the best time to confront her about her sexuality.

Let the divorce dust settle. Then, after a reasonable amount of time has passed, invite her to accompany you to lesbian friendly event where she could meet ladies her own age.

If she is gay it will be a nice for her to meet women who have had similar experiences and have managed to get through them. If she isn't gay, it will just be a pleasant day spent w/ her son... and if, at the end of that day you still have doubts, then you can more easily turn the conversation around to ask her about her own orientation.
12
heh. 'conservative circle jerks'

13
Come on, don't you you think a kid knows when there's a good chance one of his parents is gay? It's not like he just bumped into her at the bus station and she mentioned she doesn't like cooking but likes mowing the lawn. He just provided those anecdotes as details to round out his story. We all know that none of those things - or all of those things - is conclusive proof. But when you live with someone for years and years, and know a lot of gay people, don't you think he's probably good a pretty good read on the sitch? Isn't his question about if, and how, to crack the door for her? If face to face isn't right for some reason (though I'm a fan of that approach), maybe start with an article, a book, or a conversation about a friend who was married w/ kids who recently came out?
14
Does anyone remember the This American Life episode where they test the testosterone of the TAL staff, and take guesses how they would all rank? A lot of them went on mike guessing the gay staff member would rank low. But when they went so far as to describe him as beefy, I thought to myself that he simply had a testosterone-boosted attraction to men. And, surprise, the beefy gay guy ranked highest in testosterone.

Maybe your mom simply has a testosterone-boosted heterosexuality. If your mom feels she has no one close who responds to her, maybe you only have yourself to blame if she takes your questions as the opportunity to drive the point home.

And anyway -- you're a gay guy. Where do you think you got your attraction to guys from if you have a dad who you don't suspect is gay, and a mom you suspect doesn't like men at all? How smart are you going to look asking the mom who passed her attraction to men to her gay son if she even really likes men at all?
15
Actually, I would approach it slightly differently. Instead of outright saying "I think you're a lesbian" just wait for a moment where you can make a joke about it. Talk about a newly single female friend and say "Well, now that you're single, are you interested?" That way if she's angry/humiliated/whatever, you can brush it off. But it still gives her that spark of an idea.
16
Those things make one a lesbian? Why didn't someone tell me I am a lesbian?
17
@12: That was my favorite part, too.
18
It sounds like his Mom mainly wants to be left alone. It doesn't really matter who might turn your crank if you don't like dealing with people face-to-face.
19
dose her. Preferably at a big family Christmas dinner.
20
After 42 years of marriage my parents divorced after my dad "accidentally" outed himself. While it was not his conscious decision, am am convinced it was a subconscious step. The tragedy, of course, was not the divorce, but the fact that they lived, unhappily married, for so long. An even larger tragedy was that IMO, my dad never came to terms with being out--passing away before he truly loved himself for who he was.

I think it's perfectly ok for Am Sure Mom's A Dyke to have the conversation, but he should be prepared, even if mom admits she's a lesbian, for the possibility that nothing may change. Some people live with such shame, they just can't overcome it, even with loving and supportive friends and family members surrounding them.
21
@3 - Identity =/= sex life. ("meddling", srsly?) ASMAD isn't asking her who she's having sex with and how it went, he's asking who she's romantically attracted to, a very different question. :-P

--

This is a tough one. But the more open communication, the better. Think about it this way: If your mom was to die tomorrow, would you regret never having asked her?

On the mechanism of asking, though, it might be helpful to ask when you and she are in a very good mood together, laughing at things, perhaps a little tipsy even. (Yeah, don't dose her with E without her overt consent. Maybe she'd be into it? When one major thing shifts, like a 40-year marriage, other things can shift as well.) Maybe bring up your own identity and joke around with it a bit before asking about her. Just a thought. Good luck.
22
Maybe I'm just a detached sort of person, but I could see one of my adult children asking that, and me not being offended or upset. I'd have some response like "What, because I wear sensible shoes?" and we'd go on to discuss sexual stereotypes. Just ask her - chances are she will just laugh or tell you the truth or maybe both.
23
transparently see through? seems wrong because it seems redundant. i would think either transparent or see through, or maybe even transparently seen through.
24
Wait, there's "tons of signs" but the best he can put forward in the letter is: "...a masculine-ish demeanor, she loves mowing the lawn and fixing things, she taught me how to punch (I'm a guy), she hates cooking..."

Dude, the guy who sells you Ecstasy is cutting it with acid or sometihng. Switch dealers before you decide a moving car wants you to hug it.
25
I think a woman like the one he describes who has just lost a lifelong relationship would be inclined to burst into tears if her son said, "so, ma, does that mean you're a lesbian?"

You damn kids don't know what it's like to be old. Feeling unsexy is a big part of it.
26
Those things make one a lesbian? Why didn't someone tell my brother he's a lesbian? I CAN'T WAIT TO TELL HIM, BUT I'M DOING THIS IN PERSON!
28
I've seriously thought I might need to sneak a hit of ecstacy into her dinner"

Bingo!
29
If she wants you to know, she'll tell you.
30
she might also be depressed. the withdrawal/isolating she's doing is classic. maybe she's depressed because she's divorcing, or conflicted about her sexuality, or maybe she's divorcing because she's depressed and she's not at all conflicted about her sexuality. who knows? so at the same time you ask her if she's a dyke, also ask her if she's depressed or thinks a lot about dying.
31
Although my mother loves to cook (and I'd have to replace "punch" with "stab"), the OP has described my mother to a T. Unfortunately, my mother is way too...indiscreet for me to have a reason to deny her appreciation for the male member.
32
I'd give her time to get divorced and live on her own for a while. I've known two women exactly like this lady in my life: One is here in Seattle (after a lifetime in Iowa) and apparently asexual, or at least done with that part of her life, and happy as a clam in the chai tea/bookclub/yoga set at her SHAG complex, and the other one found herself a new man in Olympia (where she left the old man) and spends half the year there, and the other half in the southwest.

So you never know. Give her time.
33
Is it bad I hope she kicks his ass?
34
#11 is on the right track. Don't confront her, but arrange an event a dinner a bbq with another woman who came out later in life, after a long marriage and kids. It'll let Mom know she's not the only one , if she even is , and give her an intro into the lesbian community. I'm speaking from personal experience. I would have shut down if confronted , but meeting others like me , without pressure to come out, was a blessing.
35
The qualities the correspondent cites as clews are almost as laughable as one long-married woman's reasons for believing her soon-to-be-ex were gay: his fondness for good clothes and his flirting with a fat woman. Divorce easily makes anyone involved credulous, maybe because an older, accepted, story for reality has failed, and any new such story can rush in to fill the gap.

And it is always, always, always wrong to dose someone else without their consent. Really; I'd hesitate to use that bordering-on-rape sort of attack against anyone short of a secret policeman or a major religious leader.
36
And later on, when I had worked myself up to telling my daughter I'm a lesbian...she said she already knew!
37
I dunno. Seems like you could leave it alone. As has been pointed out, Mom has just split up from a 40 year marriage. Let her process it. If you're gay and out then it isn't like you need to worry about her worrying about you judging her for being gay, right?

I think you should just be kind and loving to Mom, make it really clear you love and support her no matter what, and let her tell you when and if she's ready...assuming that there's anything to tell...
38
I'm with the MYOB crowd. As someone else said, "you don't want your mother getting into your sex life, stay out of hers". But there's nothing wrong with taking her aside during the holidays, reassuring her that you love her and are there for her no matter what, and if she finds herself with a special man or woman in her life, you'd like to be the first to know.

If she reacts badly to the mention of a woman as love interest, just smile, say you're just trying to cover all the bases and want her to be happy. That way no one gets put on the spot, but she knows it would be ok with you if she wants to be with a woman.
39
I agree with a lot of the comments here about the negativity of reinforcing a stereotype of being lesbian if a woman mows the lawn and fixes things, and/or knows how to land a right hook. Honestly, I expected more from Dan et al, but I guess we have to hope "It gets better".
40
I agree with a lot of the comments here about the negativity of reinforcing a stereotype of being lesbian if a woman mows the lawn and fixes things, and/or knows how to land a right hook. Honestly, I expected more from Dan et al, but I guess we have to hope "It gets better".
41
If mowing the lawn makes you a lesbian, there's a lesbian in every house. Let's dose the ENTIRE WORLD with ecstasy so they all realize they are lesbians.
42
this is awesome! It is completely relevant for me! My dad is a raging closet homo. When I came out my dad flipped, told me how disappointed he was, blah blah blah blah blah.
Meanwhile, he's obsessed about how fat he is, how he looks, is always fucking depressed and unhappy with his life, treats my mother like shit. He's otherwise liberal, but for some reason, his gay son is a whole other deal.

also when I came out he said "well, whether it's nature or nurture, it's still my fault."
ummm...

yeah.
I could go on.
Because I hate the abusive fucker, I prefer to just seem as happy as I can possibly be (even when I'm depressed as hell) and live my gay life to the fullest. I flaunt it in his face as much as possible. About 6 months ago, after 10 year of being out, I "accidentally" got an email from my dad intended for a friend of his which said what an embarassment I was because I was gay, then went into details about how much it pains him.

jealousy much?
43
this is awesome! It is completely relevant for me! My dad is a raging closet homo. When I came out my dad flipped, told me how disappointed he was, blah blah blah blah blah.
Meanwhile, he's obsessed about how fat he is, how he looks, is always fucking depressed and unhappy with his life, treats my mother like shit. He's otherwise liberal, but for some reason, his gay son is a whole other deal.

also when I came out he said "well, whether it's nature or nurture, it's still my fault."
ummm...

yeah.
I could go on.
Because I hate the abusive fucker, I prefer to just seem as happy as I can possibly be (even when I'm depressed as hell) and live my gay life to the fullest. I flaunt it in his face as much as possible. About 6 months ago, after 10 year of being out, I "accidentally" got an email from my dad intended for a friend of his which said what an embarassment I was because I was gay, then went into details about how much it pains him.

jealousy much?
44
I'm fairly certain he meant to say 'she hates COCKING.' Probably a bit of charming midwestern slang. no?
45
What I can't figure out is why the letter writer imagines that any of this is his business.

His mother's sexuality, closeted or open, is purely her own affair. A 40-year marriage means that she's at least 60 years old. That's old enough to be able to make her own choices about how she wants to present herself to the world.

I've been in and out of a marriage, with adult children in the vicinity, and the LAST thing I'd have wanted would be for one of my kids to embark on some campaign of trying to force me to have some kind of "breakthrough". Eesh.

If the letter writer's mom wants him to know something about her, she'll tell him. Personally, I think the preoccupation with her sexual orientation is the writer's issue, rather than his mother's. It sounds like he and his sibling have gotten together and spun the whole plotline for Mom's story. She may very well have entirely different issues and struggles, that he has no inkling of.

I agree with @37: kindness and respect are less exciting than illicit truth serums, but they'll go farther. Quit trying to pry open her psyche and just take her out for dinner and a show, or breakfast and a hike.
46
@39 (and 40): Why is it a NEGATIVE stereotype to be a woman who is self-sufficient? Or is it a NEGATIVE stereotype to be a lesbian?
47
1-- He's her son, so while the reasons he gives for thinking she's a dyke are ludicrous, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt & accept that he "just knows."

2-- He obviously cares about his mother & wants her to be happy. Self-knowledge & self-acceptance are both key to happiness, so in that vein I think he should "plant the seed" as Dan so eloquently advises. That being said....

3-- She's a conservative. People notorious for a profound lack of self-knowledge & self-acceptance. The kind of people who see nothing wrong in forcing their ignorance and self-hatred on others, and will go to extreme lengths to see it done. So while the bleeding heart in me says "Help her come out," the pragmatist in me says "Leave her to rot in her own stupid sea of self-hatred and shame, the sooner the better. I hope she takes her compatriots down as well."
48
@35:
So wait... What? Men who flirt with fat women are gay??

Hadn't heard that one.
50
When you told your parents that you were gay, how did they react? Use that as your guide. Were they immediately accepting, or did it take some time for them to come around.

Or else, just tell your mom that you love her more than anything/anyone else in the world, she helped you through some tough times and you will do anything for her, you'll listen to her and you'll be there for her. Take your mom out to dinner more often. Take her to the movies. Give her a few months, and you can ask her has she started dating yet.
51
@41: "Let's dose the ENTIRE WORLD with ecstasy so they all realize they are lesbians."

Bingo!
52
25 = yes. A lot of women don't feel the need to live up to traditional feminine images or just aren't that good at it. Being a bit butch doesn't necessarily have a thing to do with sexuality.

I think the kid should MYOB. Especially during this delicate post-divorce time. Just keep your lips zipped and wait and see.
53
I kinda agree with 45.

Sounds like what this mom needs is support. She's going through a though time, doesn't have many outlets, and probably questioning herself in a lot of ways. Her son's place is to support her in any way he can, not question her further. And if she does come out at some point, give her the acceptance that he would want for himself.

Giving his mom drugs is fucked up. If this guy really does care about his mom, he should start acting like it.
54
Mom's sex life? Ew. MYOB!
55
Mom taught you how to punch?

this is how we make the gay........
56
Seems to me that a far better approach would simply to sit down and say to her, "Mom, I love you. Something as big as a divorce after this long being married is a huge deal, and I want you to know that I support you and I am here for you. And I hope you know that as much as I love and will support you with any hard times you go through, I will also support you in any new directions you take your life. I want to be here for you during your new good times as much as for your new hard times."

Instead of "Hey, mom, I know you've been lying" tell her "I love you no matter what direction your life goes from here." Then stand back and support her.
57
@46: It's a negative stereotype because it implies that "feminine" women don't do yard work, aren't physical, etc. It also denigrates "feminine" work like cooking.

Based on the view that a lesbian stereotype is a "self-sufficient" woman, fixing stuff is self-sufficiency, but making yourself food isn't?

It's a dumbass stereotype that insults lesbians, straight women, and men.

As to the LW, dude, really? Ecstasy? The stereotypes you list, as others speculate, might just be your way of rationalizing an intuition, but with a joke like that, your letter kind of reeks of bad judgment on the whole.

I'm on the side of giving her time. She's got a lot to process, and all you gotta do right now is let her know you're there for her, for anything. Maybe that general goodness will also encourage her to come out to you.
58
Yeah, ASMAD really needs some better reasons than his mom defying strict gender roles to think she's a dyke. Unless two of those "other reasons" he mentions are 'mom hates having sex with men' and 'mom likes having sex with women', I see no reason to 'suspect' that she's gay. Butch doesn't equal gay for women any more than femme equals gay for men. I thought we got past this sort of gender and sex and sexuality conflation in the Nineties.

That said, he may well be right; she is his mom, after all, so he conceivably knows her pretty well. Either way, you can't force her out of the closet, you can only let her know that she has your support if she is gay and decides to come out.
59
I fail to see how any of the "signs" the OP mentioned relate to wanting to have sex with women. I'm honestly surprised Dan didn't raise this.
60
MYOB
61
Maybe it's just growing up in the country, but I've known many women who fixed things, hunted, knew how to throw a punch, etc... Most of them were straight. The letter writer's assumptions about gender deserve a good challenging.
62
He he - I am more of a guy (internally) than a girl - but I'm not a dyke. All you said about your Mum (except the masculine features) applies to me and I'm hetero. Stop trying to put her square peg in a triangular hole.
63
If mowing the lawn and fixing things is masculine, then I have something to worry about with my husband. And what about that Clay Aiken song I found on our mp3 player, along with Cher, Madonna and Celine Dion? Heaven forfend, and thank Bob he's French.
64
If he isn't sure, why risk damaging his relationship with his mother at a time when she's emotionally vulnerable? As someone whose parents split in my adult years (I was 34) it would seem to me to be buying drama you don't need.

So I disagree with Dan. FWIW my advice would be to say "Mom, I want you to know how much your love and support since my coming out has meant to me and I am with you no matter what." Leave it at that. If she's gay, she knows you have her back. And if she's not gay...she still knows you have her back.
65
@64 -- Well said.
66
I do the lawnmowing. I fix all our electronics. I don't cook - at all. I wear sensible shoes, for chrissake! I have a Subaru! And much as I think women are gorgeous and soft and cuddly and all, I'm mostly wired to respond to men. I meet all those superficial criteria for Big Ol' Dyke, except for the, you know, having sex with women part.
67
is she hot
68
I don't trust the judgment of a guy who sincerely uses the phrase "sneak a hit of ecstasy". It does suggest a preoccupation with himself and not much genuine concern for his mother.

And as a lady who grew up in the midwest, let me just say that the women who don't mow the lawn, fix shit, and punch, are the minority. These women can skin and butcher a deer in under and hour and still have time for some good ol' fashioned heterosexual cocksucking.
69
Dan, the past tense of "lead" is "led." When it's pronounced like led but spelled lead, it's the stuff in (non-graphite) pencils.
70
Good God Dan, even Dear Abby could have handled this better. MYOB! No condescending (and yes, it is condescending!) "seed planting." No out of the blue heart-to-hearts. Sheesh. When did we become such a nation of busybodies?!
71
This sounds so familiar! I think my Dad was gay (he died recently at 80) but I will never know. He was stubborn and defensive too. I fully accept your intuition about your Mom because I know how those clues can add up and yet be so difficult to convey to other people.

It's wonderful that you want to offer your support, but part of this is that you want to change your Mom. You want her to become something she's not: open, self-accepting, emotionally available. The sad truth is that parents rarely change much, and only excruciatingly slowly at best. She's not going to suddenly become cool dyke mom. She's going to remain heavily defended, difficult mom for a long time - dyke or not.

Focus on resolving any emotional issues between her and you - how has her anger streak affected you, etc. etc. Probably in the long run you will find that "relationship issues" cast much longer shadows than her (or your) sexual preference.
72
How about reminding him/her that just because she doesn't fit into a traditional female stereotype, that doesn't mean she's a lesbian?
Unless there's any signs that actually relate to sexuality, I wouldn't think she was a lesbian.
73
The letter writer doesn't state his age, but the weak "signs" of his mother's supposed Lesbianism, followed by the reckless and irresponsible attitude that it could EVER be ok to "seriously" consider poisoning someone with a psychoactive drug against their will shows he's not mature enough to be able to be of much support if his mother were to come out as a Lesbian.

My first thought was that he might be projecting, in hopes that he could have another homo in his family and feel less alone.

I think the best thing he can do is educate himself on Lesbian culture, the Lesbian scene in his city, and be a ready information source if ever the opportunity arises for him to open his mother up to that world.
74
Okay, so your mom is a strong woman with "sterotypical" traits so she must be a lesbian. Dan and his readers should be the first ones proclaiming that sexual orientation is not defined by character traits. Nothing wrong with talking with her about it but maybe there is a little projection going on here.

Please wait...

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