Comments

1
Oh c'mon, this has to be a joke, right? I mean yes, every since I started reading Savage Love I've realized I'm dead boring, but non-kinksters make plenty of appearances in Savage Love, though often they do so in the act of freaking the fuck out at a kinksters kink.

So Savage Love may ruin the relationship of a 15 year old girl (but really, what wouldn't?) but never that of an adult.
2
How far does the ice cream sex metaphor go? I'm sure many very kinky people would describe me as pretty vanilla. And that's okay; I've got no one to impress and nothing to prove. But I would rather think of myself as say, mint chocolate chip.

I've thought of writing in once or twice in the decade I've been reading Savage Love, but most of that was before I managed to get any action. Things are pretty good, I'd say for this finite chunk of electric meat.
3
Mr. Yourmom is the very definition of that guy. But he is GGG and as we all know, that is what really counts.
4
Ha ha "strap ons aren’t just for breakfast." Glad we cleared that up, I was worried about it.
5
So wait - those of us who have preferences that are considered by mainstream culture to be somewhat deviant are defined as such because deviant is always necessarily defined against a norm and therefore ISN'T the norm?
7
"Angry at heterosexuals?" What fucking column was she reading? Because it sure wasn't Dan's.
8
I always wondered if the curve in the penis was related to positions people have sex. If the penis curves down when erect, it seems it would be more exciting doggie. If it curves up it seems it would be more effective for a woman in missionary. If it curves to the side, well, your guess is as good as mine.
9
I couldn't help but think that Dan's link to that pathetic post is generating cash for that girl. I wish that I hadn't clicked through.
10
She's anti-hook-up. Fuck her.
12
Dan, it's not your fault she's an idiot. Don't listen to her!
13
@11 - I'm anti- folks pontificating on what is right and wrong for other folks to do. The whole hook up thing works for some people, not for others, but there sure as shit is no universal "hook ups are bad" so far as I've seen. (minus the STD risk, of course)
14
And in all these years, I never heard Dan disparage heterosexuality or claim that everyone is kinky.
15
We really do live in a world where Vanilla is now a Kink. That is, you have to explain/justify whatever your sexual habits/desires are to new partners, potential new partners, and strangers on teh Internets. What them gender studies types call the Heteronormative approach (missionary position vaginal as Automatic) is dying. Dan's attempt to create a Homonormative Master Narrative has foundered on the shoals of the sheer multiplicity of the shit people like to do in bed. Or not in bed, wherever. With or without shit. You know what I mean. . .
17
People actually like the missionary position?
18
@16 I don't think because someone is not in a relationship, for whatever the reason, means they don't need or want sex. My own experience tells me that lack of sex for a healthy individual can lead to obsessive loss of concentration for anything else.
19
Well, I've been reading Dan's column since I was 13 (almost 20 years now), and he ruined me, too. Of course, I wouldn't have it any other way! Damn, I would be miserable if I hadn't had the chance to learn early on that my sexual interests are not something to be ashamed of.
20
@16 Just because something is possible doesn't mean it's likely or should be demonized.
21
If you liked this, you might well _love_ http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/ ; viz esp. "God of Cake" from the right sidebar of that page.
23
Yeah, these people with relatively shallow and boring sex lives may be out there. But we don't have to encourage them by jumping into relationships with them.
25
@17 When your partner is handcuffed or otherwise tied down to the bed spread eagle... yeah, missionary can be fun. :)
26
@Ken Mehlman: Is it possible? Sure. But there is not, to my knowledge, any evidence to support that contention. And even if there were, I think any ill effects would be difficult to separate from cultural influence. For example, the fact that gay teens commit suicide at several times the rate of straight ones does not indicate that being gay CAUSES those suicides. Rather, it is widely acknowledged that the stigma these teens must face is the problem; it is the reaction to their homosexuality, rather than the sexual preference itself, that is damaging. Similarly, any negative long-term outcomes of engaging in casual sex could result from internalized shame that is itself a function of living in our sex-negative culture or the judgments of others who are living in that same sex-negative culture.

The very fact that you frame the question in the way you did says more about you and your morals and biases than anything else. A non-judgmental, non-moralistic question would ask: "What are the long-term consequences of engaging in a series of casual sexual encounters?", not "What are the negative long-term consequences of engaging in a series of casual sexual encounters?"
27
@17

Why denigrate a sexual practice that others find satisfying? Just because I don't want to have receptive anal sex with a man, it doesn't mean I disparage the act. To each their own. There's nothing wrong with the way other adults have consensual sex.
28
@Ken Mehlman:

I'm going to jump on the @26 bandwagon. As I stated - some people can handle it, others cant. Some people view sex as an emotional thing, others a hybrid, and still others can completely compartmentalize sex from emotion.

Is that healthy? Fuck if I know, I'm not a psych. But I know plenty of very well adjusted individuals who can separate sex from emotion just fine.

Are there potential health issues with random hook-ups? Sure. And individuals who don't practice some sort of safety in these situations (ie: routinely engage in receptive, unprotected intercourse with complete strangers) likely have underlying emotional and/or psychological issues that I'm quite certain none of us here are qualified to quantify.

However, the ability to engage, safely, in mutually satisfying "casual encounters" probably only has negative consequences, emotionally speaking, if the individual is subsequently shamed in some fashion or another by the morality police.

Again, I fully agree that not everyone is equipped to have hook-ups or casual partners. Some people crave and need monogamy for some reason or another. Some people need something in the middle - a few partners that are long-term. Some people don't need monogamy at all.

But a blanket statement, phrased in a question such as yours, I would step out and say is wrong. Unless you can prove me wrong, of course.
29
Huh, there are so many problems with that post. First off, her assertion that she's been reading SL longer than I have *might* be true, but then I was reading it in the back of The Onion in the early-mid nineties when they were still published out of Madison, too. "angry at heterosexuals column written by Dan Savage", besides missing hyphens, is not an accurate description of SL in this period, though "tinged by latent sexism" might be. Finally, SL didn't ruin shit, her trust issues (not taking "I'm not kinky" as a believable answer) and overgeneralizing ruined shit. She missed the part where being GGG is accepting a partner as they are, and that includes non-kinky.

Yeah, yeah, I know it's only half-serious. :-)
30
@28 And I'll pile on by saying there are plenty of negative consequences for heterosexuals in relationships including violence, ugly divorces, cheating and, in many countries, high mortality in childbirth. And my reply to your first comment implying I was argumentative, I was merely pointing out that not eveyone can be in or want relationship sex.
31
can i have a mutually satisfying casual encounter with you, michaelp?
32
I liked your "regrets" over SLOG, Dan.
33
@31 - as anyone who has had the misfortune of any sort of encounter will tell you, there is no such thing as a "mutually satisfying" encounter with me.
35
Re: Hookups

I'm uncomfortable *talking* to strangers, let along fucking them. So hookups ain't for me.

However, I have a problem with the way the blogger makes her proclamation that Hookups Are Bad, as if hookups being bad for her automatically makes them bad for everyone else. I say, if you like 'em, go for it. Just don't tell me all about and expect me to understand what the hell the appeal is.
37
@8: Sideways-bent dick just makes everything DIFFICULT. Feels bad, man.
38
@34/36 -

I love broccoli, myself. Raw, steamed, with peanut butter - it's all good.

But on what authority are you saying that monogamy (or, as a nephew recently misspoke at Christmas - monotony) is "good for you"?

And I'm just saying that I'm terrible at the sex ;-)
39
@21 - "Hyperbole & a Half" is BRILLIANT!
40
Great way to bring up your own personal interests (i.e., kinks) - pin them on his lack of response. No wonder the guy buggered off.
41
She sounded like she was obsessed with determining kink in a man who may not have any. Why can't (most) women except an answer when a man gives them one.

Ans what a whiner, her first bf dumped her. Who's hasn't almost no one ends up with their first love. I think she has serious problems blaming a sex advice columnist for her inability to accept an answer to a question and move on. From gist of it, she never asked for Dan's advice she took his advice for others and applied it with out fore thought. What a winy biacth. And since when has Dan been "anti" hetero? I think he;s rather fair to all sexual orientations/identities.
42
Methinks some of you are being a smidge too judgemental. You're aware that she's writing about her *first* relationship, which we presume took place many years ago during her tender, naive years, likely teenaged or early 20s? And she's writing, in an amusing, self aware way about how she messed up? Raise your hand if you screwed up one or more of your first relationships.

It's an amusing story, obviously told from the standpoint of someone who, years later knows how she screwed up, and recounted it as sort of a lessons learned retrospective. Take it for what it is. Lighten the hell up.
43
Predictably, someone offers up some dry humor and most people miss the point.
44
Broccoli is good and all, but I need variety in my diet. Sorry if that offends the broccoli only eaters.
45
@25 thank you for that. Tonight 25, tonight.
46
Seriously: SHE'S BEING IRONIC!

Have any of you angry commenters actually read the damn thing?
47
She maybe trying for irony but she's not a good enough writer to pull much of anything off.

And over the course of a relationship, or even a week, sometimes you can have vanilla and sometimes chocolate and sometimes tutti-frutti. Not every single sex act has to be unique and mind-blowing. Sometimes you just crave a little comfort and tenderness after a long day, and you save the more varied approach for another day.
48
I didn't think I would have to read down so far to find some people who saw the humor in her post. Shit, on her own blog it didn't take that many comments.
50
@49 - "open relationships are common only among gay men" - are you Jim Johnson?

I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there - is it such a good thing to live longer? Honestly, I have no desire to live into my 80's. I see people that old - the pills, the pain, the difficulty being independent - and I don't get why it's so awesome.

But that's just me. I would like to see, of course, a cite for all of the things you just posted as if they were fact. While I believe that I have previously seen that folks who are partnered live longer, and will give you that, the cancer one? I'm going to have to call bullshit on that.

And open relationships are only people cheating with permission. I find that it is very rare that any relationship, gay or straight, is strictly monogamous the entire time.
51
26

let us help you-

the long-term consequences of engaging in a series of casual sexual encounters are negative.

physically/medically it is a lifestyle that guarantees STDs-
the only question is how many how soon.

emotionally it is damaging and makes it dificult to find longterm emotional satisfaction.
the longer the string of hookups the more emotional baggage.
the more cavalier and casual the attitude toward and practice of sex the less able to enjoy sex as an enhancer of a longterm relationship.
52
50

"is it such a good thing to live longer? "

that's a very personal question, mich.

but if you decide the answer is 'no'
the homosexual lifestyle is an excellent way to achieve your goals.
53
@51 - prove it.
54
infotainment like Savage "Love" has a similar effect as pornography-
it cultivates an unrealistic innacurate expectation and impression of sex in it's credulous consumers.
people become unable to find satisfaction from perfectly satisfactory sexual behaviors because they have substituted someone else's values for their own, and that someone else has lead them astray down a path that always yields fustration and disappointment.

and if you are buying the sexual values of Pat Robertson or Dan Savage, either way you are throwing away your own right and ability to decide what works for you in exchange for some smarmy smug douchnozzel's recipe for failure.

it doesn't really matter if you drink the red koolaid or the green koolaid-
you screw yourself either way.
55
53 let your momma explain it to you like she did to me last night when i was boning her
56
@27 I wasn't hatin', I was questionin'. You really shouldn't take something someone with a snarling puppy avatar is posting on Slog so personally!

Also, I don't know who you think I am (a homosexual male?) but I'm a girl, and currently in a relationship with a guy. The times I've had hetero sex in the missionary position I HATED it because I would feel suffocated, pinned down, and would have to keep my boyfriend's ribcage from smacking my face. All of my experiences with missionary have been miserable and I honestly wonder how people enjoy it, especially because I think the fact I am really short may be the reason I dislike it, but it's only a guess.

~*Sorry for the offense*~
57
@55: Knowing you, her explanation was moar like a question. "Is it in yet?"
59
If you want to be monogamous, enjoy! Find someone whom will live that life with you, and be happy.
60
*ugh*....how many marginally attractive gay men are even paying attention to this thread, and have low enough self-esteem???

HA!
62
@56 Some of us like being pinned down. :) However, I'm not an extremely short person and even if I pull my partner down on top of me I can still angle my head over his shoulder enough to breathe. It's a good compromise since he doesn't want to tie me down *nearly* enough. Try it with a height difference of four inches or less sometime, it might work a bit better?
63
@ 56 yes, I too am short- 5'2, and once dated a guy 6' 5, it was like that, I'd forgotten... Try propping your shoulders and back up on pillows, so you're almost sitting at a 45 degree angle. That way you're more face to face than being smashed underneath him. That's why I like it, to be able to look in his eyes, but I'm a sap, what can I say.
64
Damnit, michaelp, you're gay? I was thinking we should have a casual sexual encounter and then report back about how awesome it was and how it actually IMPROVED our emotional well-being. But I'm probably too female for you. I got tired of feeding the trolls, and you're basically saying the same things I am but better, so I'll let you take this. Always nice to come across intelligent, like-minded people, though, even anonymous ones.
65
The tagline on that chick's blog is "Intellectual discourse for your hangover." That's an insult to intellect, discourse, and - quite frankly - hangovers.
66
@17: I like the missionary position because it makes it easier to be tied up and still kiss! Kinksters do it missionary too :)
67
If your only source for frank and honest sex education is almost exclusively about kink, it is perfect understandable that you could get the impression that *everyone* must have a kink. Dan's column does what most of the internet does; it normalizes the fringe by giving people who would otherwise feel like they're the only ones out there with whatever fringe interests the reassurance that they are not alone. Not the only gay kid trapped int he Mormon church. Not the only one who wants to jerk off in a tub of mud. Not the only one who can't come unless he's masturbating one single way. But by focusing on the fringe, the column can make vanilla seem rare or nonexistent. This girl obviously bought into that illusion (because 15 year old girls do buy into illusions; just ask one if vampires could be real) and it bit her in her not-quite-ready-for-reality ass. Hell, just read through the archives and the comments and see if your perception of happy and fulfilling monogamy doesn't wind up being that it's rare and nearly impossible.
68
I have never understood why people think the missionary position is vanilla. If my boyfriend grabs me throws me on the bed, rips my clothes off, and pins me down while fucking me hard, not letting me up no matter how much I struggle, and looks me straight in the eye while he does it, that's pretty damn hot. Sure, bondage is fun too, but sometimes it can be even hotter to play that sort of consensual/nonconsensual scene just playing off of unequal strength (and I am pretty damn strong, so he gets a good fight in that scene but--oh darn--he always ends up winning.)
69
mehlman @ 49, who is monogamouse? the world's tiniest (and cutest) superhero, out to save the world from promiscuous humans?
70
@64 - I wouldn't go so far as to say "intelligent". I try to use common sense is all. And I'm not as anonymous as most of the folks who comment here (my real name is actually Michael, and that is a picture of me (not the drummer - that's Josh, I'm the one in the white shirt with the pink belt)). I'm just narcissistic enough to make sure I'm not overly anonymous. I do love me.
71
admittedly, when i first started reading this (at thirteen, in my defense) i was convinced my boyfriend was hiding his wondrous intriguing kinks from me. as time went on i grew a brain and realised how supremely stupid that was. i then concentrated on converting him to my kinks instead of weaseling his non-existent ones out of him. the alleged savage effect evidently needn't ruin relationships...
72
When you wrote #17, my inclination was to respond, "yr doin it rong." However, after reading #56, I'm more inclined to say "HE'S doin it rong." What you are describing isn't missionary, it's push-ups.
73
Just a lame blog from some vanilla chick getting antsy about turning 30

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