Holy shit, we have a local Seattle GOP operative??

Every single ride I've taken on LLR has featured at least one poor person, usually homeless, being taken off the train for non-payment. Even in poor areas. He's simply wrong on the facts, in addition to be being daft as a brush.

Fnarf @2,

The irony is, the entire Link line runs through relatively "poor" neighborhoods, with the exception, perhaps, of the downtown tunnel, where Sound Transit officers do not ride the train, because that's Metro jurisdiction.

Personally, I've seen fare inspectors get on or off at every stop between Othello and Stadium, and my fare is checked maybe one out of five times I ride, which I'd say is surprisingly high.

Quick unrelated stupid question: *IS* the train part of the ride free usage in the tunnel itself, i.e. hopping it from Westlake to the ID?

Joe @4,

Technically, there is no free ride zone on Link, but I don't believe ST checks fares in the tunnel.

1) "gates" don't work. People hop them. Has he never been to NYC?
2) validated tickets and ticket checks are the norm for trains worldwide. Has he never been to Europe?
3) the ultimate free ride is in cars where a small fraction of their real cost is actually recuperated in fees and taxes. Has he never taken a course in economics?

I have been fare-checked in the tunnel, but not as often as elsewhere.

People can make a good living off of being stupid, as long as they espouse conservative values. Look at Tim Eyeman.

I really don't mind the stupid, but the whole conservative mindset of "Oh My God, someone might be getting something that I'm not getting!" is just tedious. It's the epitome of a childish bore, and I can't abide childish bores.

You know, it's easy to jump on Herman here, but the nice thing about Twitter is that it contains instant, honest reaction rather than pablum that's been focus-grouped to death.

At worst, Herman is guilty of being victim to his preconceived notions and assuming that his ideological opponents are nitwits. Human nature.

I think I actually saw fare checkers get on at ID recently. But they were heading south.

I definitely see people pulled off the train for nonpayment pretty regularly. They don't generally look homeless - they mostly look young and angry.

There is almost never any fare-checking happening on the SLUT, I mean, err..."Seattle Streetcar", which services a much less poor neighborhood than most of light rail.

Martin @9,

But Herman's preconceptions go further than just assuming his ideological opponents are nitwits. He assumes that everybody is as craven as he is. Indeed, the reason he finds ST's fare validation system to be so crazy is he just assumes everybody will try to evade it if there are no secure safeguards like gates, because that's what he would do.

Yeah, let's also just point out that anecdote does not constitute data. He rode one time and proceeded to blather on about his own preconceived notions (something that's not limited by ideology). It really didn't require one train ride. Let's just say he's not a supersmart Bayesian logician.

I think the key element that Herman was missing was the "random" element...and the confusion is over the claim that "everyone" is checked.

It is a true statement that not everyone who rides the train will be checked.

That doesn't make Link Light Rail a liberal conspiracy to allow poor people to ride trains for free. That just means you got on and off the train in a car that wasn't visited by a fare checker in that length of time.

One could make an argument that it is worth the infrastructure and man hour costs to switch from random enforcement to absolute enforcement...but good luck with that.

I've been riding LLR in the tunnel usually at least once a day ever since it has been operating and I've never had my fare checked. Not once. It is effectively ride-free in the tunnel.

I used to sit across the hall from the guy several years back. As far as I could tell, his chief skills were being loud and saying lots of things that were not at all based in reality.

I've only been checked once on the train in the dozen of times I've ridden it. My personal experience trumps facts! It's a conspiracy!

Somebody's never ridden on public transit before

Well as long as we all realize that it isn't racist to claim that people in "poor" neighborhoods will cheat and "rich" ones won't. It's shocking how sometimes when republicans speak in code and people get offended.

He doesn't understand that there are more trains on the alignment than just his. When the fare checkers get off, he assumes they're not checking any other trains (or doing anything, for that matter), as his is the only train he sees.

However, if he were to get off with them and wait a few minutes for the next train (which, Todd, is likely going in the opposite direction--"Lunk" Light Rail runs both north and southbound trains), he would see them check that one too. He just didn't think of that. Because, as Goldy so aptly put it, he's "really stupid." Nuff said.

@14: Also an excellent point. The main reason TriMet (and I assume Sound Transit) both use what is basically a glorified honor system for fares is because the cost of securing each station (and then maintaining the security) is usually MUCH higher than the cost of allowing a few "poor people" to cheat the system. This is especially true considering that Sound Transit makes back a lot lost fares when it collects huge fines from those stealing rides. (On TriMet, the fine is at least $115, or at least 50 "free rides.")

So the question then becomes: which is more important to Todd Herman and the like? Paying higher taxes and fares to make sure each freeloader is caught and beaten like the little bitch he thinks they are, or keeping the system as cost-efficient as possible?

I opt for the latter because I'd rather have a cheaper system that provides an essential community service while minimizing the tax burden of doing so. Todd Herman, by contrast, would prefer a much more expensive system that's as mean as possible to anyone who tries to cheat it. My earlier post is corrected: he's not only really stupid, he also gets off on being an asshole.