Yes, Eli.

Sounds like the typical Northwestern Lefto.

http://mediamonarchy.blogspot.com/

Syllogisms really allow banal points a forum to sound sage-like.

Jared Loughner uses syllogisms.

Therefore, I need a drink. This whole thing is depressing me. Can Ted Williams do something again?

@2: except for the part where he shoots democrats, bailo. the more you try to spin it, the more you look like assholes. which would be an accurate picture.

His videos sound like a rantings of someone in a days-long, sleepless manic episode, heading for psychosis, if not already there. Deep analysis seems futile.

Are you guys listening to the Pima County sheriff right now? He could be a right wing wacko but fuck....can we have him be our police chief for Seattle?? He's got some balls calling Arizona what it's become.

LoTL: Totally. I was really surprised to hear him come right out and say that vitriol leads to things like this.

Looks like he is no right-wing wacko at all:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national…

The question: If the culture were filled with more statements like this, from Bill Clinton in 1995, instead of with rhetoric that seems to stoke the kind of anti-government paranoia on display above, would today have turned out any differently?

I'd say more likely yes than no but not necessarily. Crazed extremists don't require heated rhetoric in order to commit murder or some other violent act.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say this asshole was inspired by anti-government rhetoric from teabaggers and others. What's the solution? Limit free speech? Should we, decide that angry rhetoric against the government should not be allowed, that it is not protected by the 1st Amendment? After all, we know that free speech isn't entirely without limits, like speech that incites immediate violence. And, if we should do that, could we do that? Probably not very likely.

But, let's say we did it. Couldn't such a restriction on speech be used by, say, a (God forbid) future George W. Bush to silence angry anti-government rhetoric against his policies and actions? Of course it could. It's not as if a restriction on heated anti-government rhetoric would only be applied against teabaggers, or people on the right side of the political spectrum.

Donald Rumsfeld was ridiculed for his "freedom is untidy" comment in the wake of Saddam's overthrow and the subsequent chaos in Baghdad. Although, given the context, he deserved it, he did touch upon a fundamental truth: freedom is a messy business. You try to balance the rights and freedoms of individuals with the well-being of society, but it's impossible to draw that line in a place that makes everyone happy.

Wow, that was amazing. It's so good to see the sheriff say what he did. Reading between the lines it was clear he was referring to Palin, Limbaugh, Beck and the like. Fantastic to see they aren't all Arpaios down there. By the way, do you think this might affect Bristol Palin's planned move to Maricopa?

The Sheriff said what President Obama should have said today. I am sick of hearing all the politicians running around not blaming anyone and trying to paint this as something that "just happened out of the blue".

Too many MCs, everyone gets a mike.

Just as Republicans and other right-wing proto-murderers instigate this kind of mayhem with their inane, poisonous rhetoric and "lock and load" incitements, so they kill poor people with their denial of medical care and jobs through their obscene, zero-sum "governing."

Thanks, right-wingers, for showing us your true colors: not red-white-and-blue, but just plain red, from blood pouring out of the wounds you inflict on the rest of the human race.

Yeah, good job, right-wingers. You're all alike, waiting for the chance to murder somebody.

What is wrong with Arizona?

It's telling how the GOP is a "big tent" when they're trying to rope in all manner of people who have some beef with the government, yet so quick to distance themselves from people like this when the shit hits the fan. Plenty of Tea Party campaign rhetoric was aimed at anti-government types from all shades of the spectrum, hard-right to libertarian to "market anarchists" and every other off-brand of het-up self-styled "revolutionaries" who doesn't want to pay taxes.

But now? All we're going to hear is how this guy wasn't a real Tea Party this-or-that. Sure, he believed in the gold standard and abolishing the Fed and taking up arms against the government and the tyranny of political correctness, but he listened to Punk Rock! And read Marx! And so on. It's what they did with Joseph Andrew Stack, and it's what they'll do here.

If you're looking for contrition from the Palins of the world, forget it.

@6 In general, Pima County and its elected officials have been much more balanced than most of Arizona, particularly Maricopa County. Tucson is a much older city than Phoenix, with more pride (and tolerance) in its Mexican heritage - hardly surprising given that it was still a part of Mexico until the 1850s. This Sheriff, the Coconino/Flagstaff sheriff, and one in a county further south that I can't recall right now have been adamant that they cannot and will not enforce SB 1070, and to do so would prevent them from doing their job as police officers properly. They've also been highly critical of the white supremacists/NeoNazis/Minute"men" and the recent GOP-sponsored gun legislation that basically means the only major requirement for purchasing/owning/carrying a gun in AZ is being 21 years old (easier to get a gun in AZ than booze or cigarettes; the permitting process is a load of crap and a friend's 21-year-old son with a criminal record bought a gun in Mesa and had all the signatures on his "permit" in 1/2 an hour). It's a shame this had to happen at all, let alone there.
Had this happened in Phoenix - home of Sheriff Joe the megalomaniac and his corrupt bunch of right-wing cronies in the state and county legislature - I would have been much less shocked and surprised, though no less horrified.

Side note: Dear Jan Brewer - you failed horribly in trying sound even remotely sincere in your mock "sadness". Fuck you.

CBS is quoting the Sheriff as saying they're looking for another shooter.

Only 5000 comments on Palin's most recent FB note:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id…

Wait--Bill Clinton insisted that we assume the United States is the greatest democracy in the world? Disagreeing with that statement makes you some kind of sicko? I guess I was pretty young when I heard that but...WTF? You think I should be hearing more statements like THAT? What, you want lefties to start calling for revolution too? Hey, wait a minute--we already are. Thanks for leaving an even more bitter taste in my mouth.

Kudos to CBS for showing Palin's PAC crosshairs on national news.

Every fucking time. Every FUCKING time a democratic leader gets killed, fucking libs call for heads on a plate and suspension of our rights, just as any conservative does. None of you Political Party Pinks ever fucking THINK when that shit happens and you just act like retards. I heard a libertarian today call for Sarah Palin to be convicted of hate speech and treason. Nobody has any fucking sense of what they actually believe, so why in the world would anyone believe you when you make any political statement at all?

I notice that none of the hypocrites here mention that he's 22.

What the fuck does his age have to do with anything?

Live stream from Tucson for those who don't own a TV. Like me.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=1…

@24 Exactly!

I just feel so bad for that poor young shooter. he was victimized by anti-gov rhetoric from the right. It should be illegal to be overly-critical of government; juts look what happens. Yes we can in 2012!

To those of you decrying the theoretical potential loss of free speech: if an individual person were to go around telling everyone to not trust the government, prepare for armed conflict, and listen only to what they tell you to do, they would be considered either a cult leader or a terrorist.

@22

I have not read a single comment from a liberal, on several sites, say that the solution to this to suspend the right of free speech. Not one. The solution is use our free speech rights to denounce fucksticks like you, and drive the fucksticks like you who are in public office into political exile.

By the way, interesting use of the phrase "every fucking time a Democratic leader gets killed". Perhaps you are implying that this is just a minor inconvenience that we shouldn't get all upset about. Or perhaps, in the name of balance, you are contrasting it to all the Republican leaders getting killed -- wait, could you list those for me?

@29: That would be:
Abraham Lincoln
James Garfield
William McKinley
Ronald Reagan (attempted)

So in modern history, we've got Reagan. And his would-be assassin was driven by an obsession with Jodie Foster. He didn't have radio nutbags and national candidates telling him to reload and helpfully placing crosshairs over key districts. He didn't have a whole system telling him his government was out to get him, and it was time to turn to a Second Amendment solution. All he had was his own insanity. We can do so much better than that nowadays.

Also Ford(twice), but history would just get in the way of your inane narrative. Had no idea the willful ignorance was so prevalent.

"We don’t have proof yet that this was political, but the odds are that it was." Don't let that stop irresponsible clowns like Krugman and Olbermann from using this to spread their talking points. Even Ailes would be ashamed of this shreiking.

Batshit crazy is just batshit crazy. The kid was clearly out of his head. How would people care to explain the 3 elderly women and the child killed today? Politically motivated, no doubt. Nary a mention of those people whist your own your worthless sopaboxes. You're no better than the people you try to pile on week after week.

@35: assassination? No. But rightful charges of impeachment and further measures to fit his crimes, he and crew got off far to easy IMO.

@34, Batshit crazy isn't just batshit crazy. Batshit crazy comes in many flavors, including political paranoia, as is obviously the case with Loughner. And in a climate of extremely bellicose discourse (second amendment solutions and whatnot), commentary from pundits like Olbermann earlier this evening are anything but irresponsible. It's time to tone the rhetoric down a bit, we don't need nutcases anywhere on the political spectrum getting it in their heads that violence is the answer, let alone ever acceptable in our political framework. Democracy just doesn't work when someone starts making their arguments with guns rather than words.

I'm with 34. When you shoot and murder a 9 year old girl at point blank range, all the political motivations goes out the window. The guy was sick in the head. His madness might have been caught up in right wing rhetoric, but that should not diminish the fact that madness was the primary cause, not politics.

Murder count for irresponsible right wing extremists: Mike Huckabee 4, Sarah Palin 6
It's Palin in the lead. I hope she's happy.

i'm with 34 and 38. he wasn't a simple assassin - he indiscriminately shot up the random folk that were there. batshit crazy needs no politics.
too bad his round ran out before he could kill himself. or maybe his brand of batshit didn't include the suicide bit.

@40: the taliban aren't "batshit crazy". their randomized violence IS political.

this mentally-ill kid didn't shoot a republican. he shot a democrat. this is not coincidental, but it is consistent with the plague of amoklauf shootings by the mentally ill occurring every week in america - the insane impulse is enabled by the convenient access to firepower. and his impluse was anti-democrat.

#34- What a ridiculous statement. Roger Ailes has no shame at all.

By no means was this nutcase a simple assassin, but this past year we have seen bricks through windows, a curb stomping, a bombing at an Oregon bank, and a plane flown into an IRS building. The level of batshit in each situation varies, but it all occurs in an environment of 'second amendment solutions' political discourse. Tea Party rallies are attended by members carrying rifles and signs with out-of-context quotes like 'the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants'. Batshit crazy may need no justification, but right now one could argue politics are batshit crazy. It's time to tone down the rhetoric.

yeah, politics ARE batshit crazy. that is a very good point.

@ 31
Abraham Lincoln
James Garfield
William McKinley

Were from the anti-racist Republican party of a 100 years ago. The same racist idiots have switched parties and marginally different from the southern democrats of that time. You have to keep up with the labels they have changed in the last 100 years.

Minor nit, but it was actually "Second Amendment Remedies" that Sharon Angle talked about, not "solutions"

Angle: I feel that the Second Amendment is the right to keep and bear arms for our citizenry. This not for someone who's in the military. This not for law enforcement. This is for us. And in fact when you read that Constitution and the founding fathers, they intended this to stop tyranny. This is for us when our government becomes tyrannical...

Manders: If we needed it at any time in history, it might be right now.

Angle: Well it's to defend ourselves. And you know, I'm hoping that we're not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.

42: You're right. Got a bit carried away there. But the rest of the diatribe I'll stand by.

41 - I dunno if I agree that the Taliban's actions are "political." They are religious fanatics. Not batshit in the same way as Loughner may well be, but pretty freakin' screwy. To me the term "political" suggests that there is fairness and law and some sort of democracy involved. Not so with Taliban. I know there are a million ways to parse the definition of political so maybe you can still call their actions politically motivated. But in my mind Taliban are waaaaay outside the political box we commonly operate in.

If the killer was an illegal immigrant with a semi-automatic instead of a "local nut case" each of you might feel differently about this. The environment (political or otherwise) in Tucson is dangerous. Walking to your mailbox in this town is a hazard. Until the people of Tucson demand that something be done about the "local nut cases, harmless illegals, gangs, etc, there will never be any change. The shootings that happened on Saturday are an everyday thing in this town. The only reason it made national news is because a political figure was involved. Now, that is batshit crazy!!!! Welcome to the most "lawless" state in the United States...welcome to Tucson :) Enjoy the sunshine.