Loughner Linked to Anti-Semitic Hate Group?

Comments

1
The question does remain, but I question the relevance. It reminds me of the violent video game debate, or Marilyn Manson being on the stereos of the Columbine shooters: crazy people kill other people because they are crazy, not because of the media they consume, and to suggest otherwise implies a restriction on freedom of speech that's uncomfortable for me.
2
Rootless, unstable young people like Loughner often drift back and forth from left to right, seeking the certitude their adrift lives can't give them. The temptations of any system that's "got it all figured out" is very strong.

And Loughner smoked a ton of pot, which often causes emotional retardation in people his age; he was 22, but emotionally may have been more like 14 or 15, whenever he started smoking it.

A guy like that, with mental problems (there are reports of "nonsensical outbursts" in his college classes), and a well-developed obsession with systems of order (grammar, logical syllogism, even his attempted military service) is ripe for exploitation by the modern far right in particular, since their certitudes are more developed than the flaccid, has-been far left.

White power, gold and silver, an interest in making lists of enemies (Jews, immigrants) -- these would be very attractive to a guy like that. "Truth" steps in when reality fails him. His real life was in tatters. Ron Paul economics, American Renaissance racism, even the music he liked; it all makes sense to me.
3
The question does remain, but I question the relevance. It reminds me of the violent video game debate, or Marilyn Manson being on the stereos of the Columbine shooters

Absolutely. And let's include the the charge of hip-hop lyrics bearing responsibility for some gang murders and abuse of women, and the accusation of violence in movies and TV bearing responsibility for some violent acts, and the claim of hardcore porn bearing responsibility for some men raping women.

I think it's entirely possible that all of these things can have an effect on someone who's not mentally stable. And, as a society, we can certainly request that video game makers and filmmakers and hip-hop artists and people who create hardcore porn dial back their stuff. And that teabaggers and other anti-government types dial back their stuff. But if they don't do it voluntarily -- which they almost certainly won't because it sells and/or they strongly feel they have a right to free expression -- then what recourse do we have?
4
I don't get the reference to Giffords being the "first Jewish female elected to such a high position". There are two female Jewish Senators (Feinstein and Boxer) and at least a half dozen other female Jewish members of the House.
5
@1, @2, @3: Reasonable, thoughful, and careful commenatary. You sloggers think before you type. How refreshing. Thank you.
6
Our recourse is to stop taking them seriously as a political group and start shaming the shit out of violent rhetoric and bigoted discourse. You can't bring a gun to a word-fight, it makes civil debate impossible. The Right's 'second amendment solutions' rhetoric is unacceptable in our country's politics, and we should demand that politicians and media outlets distance themselves from such talk. "Don't retreat- reload" is not a political ideology that has any place in the framework of our society.
7
@4 I think it was supposed to say "first Jewish female in Arizona elected to such a high position" which is the case, instead of in "the U.S. government." Just sloppy Fox News reporting I imagine.
8
@4--yeah, I thought that was odd too--the first female Jewish house member was elected in 1925 (Florence Prag Kahn)! Gifford was not the first by a long shot, nor the highest (as you point out). She might be *Arizona's* first Jewish congresswoman, but that's rather different.
9
and we should demand that politicians and media outlets distance themselves from such talk

Fine, but a demand is just a stronger form of a request, unless there's some requirement, like a law, to back it up.

So I could amend what I said above to "we can request or demand" but if those requests aren't followed or those demands aren't met, then what recourse do we have?

And should those demands apply only to political groups like the teabaggers? Or should they also apply to other types of expression that critics feel bear some responsibility for violent acts?

10
tea party profile:

high income
high education
middle age

shooter:

22 years old
low income
hs diploma
11
@10, can you site your source of the "tea party profile"?

Thank you
12
#11

Poll Finds Tea Party Backers Wealthier and More Educated

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/pol…

13
Backers and followers are not exactly the same thing .. but to say that the shooter was involved in the Tea Party would be a leap. That said unstable people are just that ... unstable. That he had legal access to a semi automatic weapon is the real crime
14
How about links to the military and government mind control:
by way of Paul Joseph Watson-
The gunman who shot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and numerous other victims including a Federal Judge and a nine-year-old girl during a political event in Tucson today, was a US military recruit who was obsessed with mind control, mirroring the circumstances of many other mass shooters in history.

Loughner’s You Tube channel contains several rambling text-based videos which discuss his fascination with mind control.

In one of his online rants, Loughner said that he was a “United States Military recruit at MEPS in Phoenix”. Reports suggest that he also may have been deployed to Afghanistan at one point.

“The mission of USMEPCOM and the Phoenix MEPS is to process individuals for enlistment or induction into the armed services,” states the website of the United States Military Entrance Processing Command.

The fact that Loughner was part of the US military and yet is being characterized as an anti-government conspiracy nutcase by the establishment media is a complete contradiction. Loughner’s multitude of viewpoints seem to transcend political classification. Watching his You Tube videos, he is clearly a schizophrenic who is obsessed with mind control and other bizarre leftfield issues of minutia.

Loughner’s vulnerable and psychotic profile, combined with his interest in mind control, mirrors other famous assassins such as Mark David Chapman, John Hinckley, as well as Columbine killers Harris & Klebold.
15
@14, where are you getting "Afghanistan"? I haven't seen any indication that he ever successfully got into the military at all; MEPS is just intake. NBC and the Arizona Republic have reported that he attempted to volunteer but was rejected.
16
@4 First Jewish woman in Arizona's congressional delegation:
http://www.jta.org/news/article/1999/11/…
17
Since when is Faux News a reliable source for anything? It'd be just like them to make something up to take the heat off their beloved GOP, seeing as how they are the propaganda arm of the Republican Tea Party.
18
@12 - Party politics in my town in CA are dominated by Tea Party and Tea Party "types". I myself have been physically attacked by a local Tea Party leader while exercising my 1st Amendment rights to speak freely and seek redress form my government, while the police chief witnessed the attack and did nothing..

Oh yeah, the town has been listed as the 4th least brainy in the US in recent reports.
19
The real question is how can we blame Sarah Palin.
20
Does anyone here or at Homeland Security do any research? American Renaissance is a white racist website (not a group) which--almost unique among white racist websites--specifically welcomes (racist) Jews, and specifically and emphatically does not believe in "ZOG" or Jewish conspiracies. Other racists hate them for this.
21
Sick Liberals exploiting and manipulating this unspeakable tragedy.
Despicable political vultures scavenging political capital from the horrific violence of a madman.
Democrats and Liberals making hateful deplorable accusations that Middle America, the Tea Party, and Republican Politicians had contributed to this.

Loughner held a YouTube account under the name "ClassItUp10". Loughner's YouTube profile stated among other things that some of his favorite books were Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf, Ayn Rand's We the Living, Plato's Republic and Karl Marx's and Friedrich Engels' Communist Manifesto. One video told viewers that they "don't have to accept the federalist laws," called for a return to the gold standard, and accused the government of mind-controlling and brainwashing the citizenry.

Loughner's friend, Caitie Parker, a self proclaimed liberal who hung out with Loughner in high school and college, confirms he had radical leftist views and they used to listen to the anti government radical leftist band, Antiflag.
A YouTube video he saved is one of someone burning a flag while a leftist anti government group sings "Let the bodies hit the floor"
In his videos, he protests charging for schooling and housing. You can't get much more socialistic than that.
----------------------------------------------------------
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyf…
According to Parker's twitters: ( her twitter page: http://twitter.com/caitieparker )
Saying Jared Laughner was the gunman. Really hoping that's not the same guy I went to HS with, really good friend. Freaking out right now!!!
Official I went to high school & college, & was in a band w/ the gunman. I can't even fathom this right now.
I went to high school, college, & was in a band with the gunman. This tragedy has just turned to horrific.
As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal.
He was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class.
He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent"
22
Sick Liberals exploiting and manipulating this unspeakable tragedy.
Despicable political vultures scavenging political capital from the horrific violence of a madman.
Democrats and Liberals making hateful deplorable accusations that Middle America, the Tea Party, and Republican Politicians had contributed to this.

Loughner held a YouTube account under the name "ClassItUp10". Loughner's YouTube profile stated among other things that some of his favorite books were Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf, Ayn Rand's We the Living, Plato's Republic and Karl Marx's and Friedrich Engels' Communist Manifesto. One video told viewers that they "don't have to accept the federalist laws," called for a return to the gold standard, and accused the government of mind-controlling and brainwashing the citizenry.

Loughner's friend, Caitie Parker, a self proclaimed liberal who hung out with Loughner in high school and college, confirms he had radical leftist views and they used to listen to the anti government radical leftist band, Antiflag.
A YouTube video he saved is one of someone burning a flag while a leftist anti government group sings "Let the bodies hit the floor"
In his videos, he protests charging for schooling and housing. You can't get much more socialistic than that.
----------------------------------------------------------
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyf…
According to Parker's twitters: ( her twitter page: http://twitter.com/caitieparker )
Saying Jared Laughner was the gunman. Really hoping that's not the same guy I went to HS with, really good friend. Freaking out right now!!!
Official I went to high school & college, & was in a band w/ the gunman. I can't even fathom this right now.
I went to high school, college, & was in a band with the gunman. This tragedy has just turned to horrific.
As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal.
He was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class.
He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent"