oh, dear.

Oh please, bad taste does not violent rhetoric make.

These guys are like the old cartoon, where the husband, upon being confronted in flagrante delicto by his wife, insists that she does not in fact see the young woman in bed next to him.

Jesus. All my guns say is their make, manufacture date and serial number. All I want to do is shoot inanimate objects. Mostly paper with numbered concentric circles. The occasional rotten apple. Politics, religion, fear, and aggression have absolutely zero to do with why I own guns.

Peaceful, liberal, rational firearms enthusiast here.

Jesus fucking christ...

I'm in favor of 2nd amendment rights and gun owners but it gets really difficult to support them when they're shooting themselves in the foot all the time.

As a gun owner, anyone who buys one of these is an idiot.

Do shooting ranges ever have guns you can rent if you like the idea of shooting but don't care to own a gun? Is that a silly idea?

@7 No, it's not. And yes, they do.

@7: I've been meaning to look into that. I'd never personally own a gun, but I'd like to be able to shoot straight in case any serious shit happens to go down in my lifetime. Also, I've got an obsessive desire to be well-grounded in everything.

Yes; we must be protected from metaphor and passion in politics.
This is getting obscene, guys. You're loading this lunatic onto the right entirely on the basis of Giffords' politics (Loughner had no way of knowing Judge Roll would be in attendance) and an incoherent comment about the gold standard among his ramblings.

Yet everyone to the left of Limbaugh appears to think Loughner's murder weapon was the starter pisol for the next presidential election. And you have a real issue here--gun control--yet you choose to obscure it beneath this attempt at mass panic. It is transparently opportunist.

If you can't, as Shakespeare said, assume a virtue, maybe you can at least grow a pair. This is shrieking freaking hysteria.

I understand the importance of a President and First Lady showing support in such a tragedy, particularly given the Congressional and Federal Judge connection. But nearly five years ago, six innocent people--the youngest 14 years old--and the shooter himself died in a similar, senseless act of gun violence spurred by mental instability. Where was that president, loved by the NRA? And where were the calls for more funding for mental illness research and treatment? May all such victims rest in peace...but let's try to reduce the number of victims, and take such threats seriously.

@7 there are a few on the Eastside, I think in Kirkland is one? We've been curious to go over one day as neither of have even touched a gun since we were really young.

@7/9:

I and several of my friends make fairly regular trips to the Bellevue Gun Club on SE 32nd. You can rent a wide variety of both handguns and small semi-automatic rifles. Try to go on "Ladies Night" with a female shooter; it'll save you quite a bit of $$!

And I highly recommend going with an experienced shooter, particularly the first few times, as there's a definite etiquette and protocol involved in range shooting, not to mention the obvious safety procedures. So it's very helpful to have someone along who knows the ropes and can guide the newbies through the process.

@10: Further proof that the biggest trolls on Slog are the people who work there.

@7: enjoy this tragic story of shooting-range weapon renters:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/australian-twin…

@15 Simple solution: Don't commit suicide.

shit. interesting, but it's really nothing new. what is new is how information technology is being used to spread this shit. it's an amazing irony, how the anti-enlightment right utilizes enlightenment technology to obfuscate and confuse and create hysteria. rather than seeing through this with sane, balanced information, this stuff causes hysteria on all sides.

it's just no surprise that these xenophobic racists still exist en mass and have used technology to form a kind of hideous political blob.

i'm not really sure what all the surprise is about this shooting. it's not really a point of recollection, just another event in a cycle of hatred and violence that goes back to the right for hundreds of years in this country. all the questions about whether the rhetoric leads to this is pathetic in itself. just becase it begs the question something is wrong, even if it just more symptomatic than causal.

i agree with all the outrage that this shouldn't happen or be acceptable, but the rest is just political maneuvering.

-
as for the "You Lie" encryption, that's just like printing "Kill Niggers" on a gun. It's the new acceptable phrase. No surprise though. This isn't about gun control.

*yawn* old.

you can engrave anything on a receiver, and people do

http://www.weaponscache.com/forum/ar15/6…

damn we should shut down the 1st amendment to make sure, damn violent speeches and ideas!

The page is available on Google Cache.

@9 That's exactly why I go to ranges. It's nice to know how to handle a gun w/o actually owning one. There's a great one in Kent I recommend (by Ikea and the Great Wall).

@ 14
Just to clarify, I don't work at Slog, and that was not a troll. To further clarify: a "troll" is a fictionalized comment, the purpose of which is to make a rival blog and its readers appear to be crazy, bigoted or the like. For instance, if I wanted to troll a right-wing blog I might post a racist but favorable comment, to make it appear that its readership is bigoted.

Perhaps one can do the same with his own blog--post phony intolerant comments from fictional rivals, say--but I believe that is what we call a "sock-puppet".

No offense and I know you're only kidding, but to be fair to the good people at Slog, no, there is no connection between them and this reactionary.

It has been way too long since I've been to the range. Maybe this week end I will finally get around to cleaning my guns. They're filthy!

23

Just closing Lissa's tag.

@16: solution? was there a problem?

@23: Oh thank you! I am new to tagging. Don't really have the hang of it yet.

@24 Without providing any explanation, your post @15 suggests that @7 shouldn't go to a range because people get shot there. I was pointing out that if you don't want to get shot like that tragic suicide, don't shoot yourself.

If I was jumping to conclusions, feel free to explain what you meant. It's either a shitty troll (what I assumed, maybe incorrectly) or an irrelevant anecdote.

This goes to show how insanely entrenched these false beliefs can become. The primary reason Joe Wilson's comment shouldn't be lauded is because IT WAS WRONG. I'm fine with breaking protocol and calling the President a liar when he's actually lying, but that was not at all the case with Wilson. If ya'll recall, Obama was talking about how the healthcare bill wouldn't cover illegal aliens (at least anymore than they already are when they show up at ERs bleeding out) and Joe Wilson was WRONG in implying Obamacare would mean coverage of illegals. Those guns commemorate ignorance.

Yep, Wilson was an idiot then, and anyone quoting him approvingly instantly self-identifies as an idiot too.

"Do you ever daydream about shooting down President Obama? Ladies and Gentlemen, here's the gun for you!" is how they could market these.

Uh yeah, I think this shit has gotten WAY out of hand. This sort of thing makes the climate of extremism in the 90's (militia movement and all) look like a walk in the park

@18- I don't see anyone saying they should suffer legal consequences, just that they're fucking idiots. Pointing out when someone is wrong is not oppression.

@28- Just to expand: Proud ignorance + firepower = Rising authoritarian movement.

@27: i guess what i took away from it is that 2 australian suicides had to come to america so they could get temporary, simultaneous access to loaded handguns. so i suppose i consider it a tangentially relevant anecdote, at least for shooting range gun rental. i don't know how to troll.

Paul,
This is indeed getting insane:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/…

For the record, there's no such thing as "violent rhetoric". I could invoke the proverb "Sticks & stones (and Glocks for that matter) may break my bones... blah, blah, blah but this discourse is now ridiculous and intractable. This tragic incident in Tucson was probably conducted by a lone violently disposed schizophrenic. Period. The shame in the politicization of this incident is beyond pale.

Look, if you or I said "I hate Pres. Obama!" would that statement be violent or inflammatory rhetoric? I contend no unless ...MANIFESTED in action. Good God I don't hate Obama nor would I want anyone to harm him whatsoever. But, I should be able to SAY that. Yes, there would be consequences but hopefully not violent. I don't avocate that kind of rhetoric even to my most unworthy political opponent. But, I reckon one can say it is inflammatory.

Remember "Fuck the Police" by NWA?

Recall the editor of the New Republic once remarked "I HATE Pres. Bush!"

Words Paul. Only words.

Remember "Fuck the Police" by NWA?

From a great--and absolutely ridiculous--album; they spend 75% of the record bragging about rape, robbery and murder, and the other 25% complaining of police harrassment. Priceless idiots!
And now Easy's gone, and all we've got is Ice Cube (he of "Cave Bitch" and calls to burn down Korean groceries) smiling wide in Disney-fied crap. Cube, you rebel!

This brings to mind Glenn Beck's latest stunt--a letter denouncing violence, sent to Congressmen for signatures--he is gloating today that he has only 14. Media Matters calls it a "trick"--because it denounces rioting and talk of "bringing down the system".
Well, it is a trick, but one that reveals the encouragement and threat of violence that is at the core of the Democratic Party's race politics. A neat trick. I wonder if it occured to a single pol that if signing a letter denouncing rioting or the overthrow of the system of which he is a part presents him with a professional conundrum something is seriously f'd up. The man has a point.

Hell, when that loon Ferguson shot up a train-car of whiteys because he felt cheated by Racist White America®, his lawyer Kunstler (before he chose to represent himself and demonstrate not only the madness but the stupidity that offers a ready explanation of his lack of success or awareness) wanted to offer his hatred as a defense--White America is so racist it has driven this man mad. It was an accurate and succinct expression of the conventional wisdom regarding race and achievement. This strictly enforced convention practically demands violence, and has become so divorced from plainly evident reality that it is farcical.

If you're a black American, evincing a certain disdain for whites and this country--the country that's created the healthiest, wealthiest, most empowered population of African descent in history, arguably the most culturally relevant population on earth--is demanded as the price of identity.

The stats on interracial violence, when controlled for socio-economic status, document a daily assault on non-Blacks (if whites are to carry the human stain to their graves perhaps we can at least cut some slack to their other "victims"--the Koreans and Hispanics that are just as unsafe as whites when stepping into a black neighborhood).

Seeing as one is not allowed, under threat of loss of livelihood, to question for a moment this creaky assumption. Note the SeaTimes takedown of Judge Sanders for his outrageous suggestion that incarceration rates have something to do with crime rates--for which a group of black activists participated in the electoral defeat of the criminal defendant's best friend on the court--it is more important to preserve the big lie than to preserve justice; those criminal defendants come in all colors, by the way, and those few who are ill-served by the justice system can thank the Big Lie--just one of the many degradations imposed by it.

@34- Ice Cube:

http://panhandleprint.files.wordpress.co…

I'm going to start writing Death to All Fanatics on all my skeet before I blast them from the sky. (Well, actually, about 75% of my clay pigeons break when they hit the ground.)

@36- As long as none of them escape to hunt our children.