Comments

1
Oh, well done, you.
2
juicy
3
As much as I enjoy the schadenfreude over the prospect of the Red Counties being budget-cut back into the Stone Age, I have to pause and remember that I was once a poor young kid growing up in a backward, right-wing hellhole, and the only hope I had of getting outta there was doing well in school.

Our legislature seems determined to punish children, the elderly, the sick and disadvantaged minorities for the current Depression, so the cuts that're coming will harm people like me the most, not the gawddam dumbfucks that keep voting R from their rural and ex-urban tract houses, who don't give a damn about education or social well-being in the first place.
4
Look at what you've started! I bet you that if the legislature actually does something to address this, the red base/Eyman will prolapse to see who can undo it faster. Any pretense of their ethics will vanish to restore the fact that the conservatives are leeching off of our tax base.
5
@3 the curious question then becomes--wouldn't we just be giving them exactly what they asked and voted for?
6
That damn socialist gummint is trying to to take away my food stamps. Just more proof that those commie pinkos on the left side of the state are out to screw the little guy.
7
On KUOW, Chris Vance was prattling on about the State Constitutional aspects of this. Goldy, care to comment?
8
I'm sure there are areas that can be chopped in the red counties that won't affect the least among them.
Off the top of my head I believe roads, rivers and state subsidized water projects, and prisons would be a significant part.
9
lotus eater @7,

The only Constitutional issue that leaps out at me has to do with basic education funding. That is our state's "paramount duty," after all. But things like levy equalization are outside the basic funding formula, and so are legally open to cuts.

That said, I don't believe the state is currently meeting its constitutionally mandated paramount duty when it comes to basic education, and would prefer to see a broad increase in K-12 spending, rather than distorting bandaids like equalization.
10
Wow - well done, Goldy! How can we mobilize on this?
11
@3 It's not schadenfreude, it's self-preservation. With a budget like ours, there are only shitty choices. Voters have cut off the state's ability to raise revenue, and guess which parts of the state voted overwhelmingly to do it? Which parts of the state were clamoring for "smaller government"?

If it comes down to children suffering in my community, where we respect the state's need to raise revenue for vital programs (as reflected by our votes), or children suffering in those communities, where folks have called for and voted for dismantlement of those programs, then let them sleep in the bed they've made. Like I said, there are no choices but bad choices. But a choice has to be made.
12
I'm unclear exactly what point Rep. Anderson is trying to make. I don't see the benefit to the Republican party in this data.

What am I missing?
13
After all, these conservatives keep saying they think "big gubbamint" is a bad idea, so why not let them have a taste of what "small gubbamint" really means? In the meantime we'll gladly take that additional funding back over on our side of the Cascades and do something useful with it, like, educate our children, fix our roads, assist our elderly and disabled, etc., etc.
14
I think we should literally cut WSDOT funding by county based on tax revenue, until 2012.

Which means lots of Seattle repairs and nothing East of the Cascades.
15
Cut them off! Goddam welfare Republican'ts! Cut off anything and everything except the children. They cut their own throats, so maybe they'll see Eyman for the phony clown he really is.
16
Danger @12,

I haven't spoken to Rep. Anderson yet, but he may just be looking out for the interests of his constituents... which is, after all, what we elect our representatives to do.
17
@5 for the Elections Have Consequences win.
18
FYI folks, my next chart is really going to raise some eyebrows.
19
A fairer graphic would show votes for I-1033 by county, which happens to live right here. :-)

It's not quite as obvious a correlation, but it tells the same story.
20
King County:
Proposed by Initiative Petition Initiative Measure No. 1053

YES 391975 53.65%

NO 338603 46.35%

Again, who is punishing themselves?
21
@20 If King County voters thought that we'd cut state taxes and do more of the work through the county (which is basically the same local money, local spending plan we're discussing at the state level here), then eventually the correct answer would be "those outside of King County".
22
look at you, kittitas county! couldn't be all those 2nd-home Suncadia golf resort tax dollars that put you in the green category, could it?
23
I'm all for fair use of tax dollars (and not killing the poor, gutting the schools, and the like) and agree that most of the tax-cutting rhetoric from the right is a nonsensical, but I think that we need to be careful about categorizing who benefits from which spending projects.

For instance, doesn't the wealthier west coast derive some benefits from statewide highway projects that allow goods to be moved across the whole state? And maybe we'd rather not have those prisons in our backyard? And the benefits of water projects probably don't stop at the border.

I'm not saying it isn't a boondoggle, just a boondoggle with more a little more nuance than you're acknowledging.
24
I would also point out how nicely that wedge of green could assimilate into the larger map of Canada. Essentially, we'd just unite the Salish Sea Basin into one country, the country that we South Salishians all identify most with anyway. I'm sure the retirees in Clallam and Mason counties would go along once the really saw what health care was like up there.
25
I was referring to the electoral map wedge of green, but I'd be down with going with the first map of net donor counties. Soon enough the old folks on the peninsula would be begging to join.
26
@ 5 & 11,

I don't think that there is any ethical solution other than to fix our state's incredibly unjust and regressive taxation system, but pfffft like that's gonna happen.

I am stating that the people who're gonna suffer the most will be poor rural and minority children, including children in foster care, who don't have any say in the matter and whose only chance for having a better life is to take advantage of every benefit the state offers. And things like roads (access) effect them, too. If there were a way to target these cuts specifically at the aggressively ignorant, anti-society, hate-crazed morons that keep voting Repukelican, then I'd be all for it.

However, our "leaders," both Demoncrat and Repukelican have made the totally amoral, sickening and unethical choice to balance the budget on the backs of our most disadvantaged citizens, no matter how much misery it causes, nor how much it actually harms the state in the long-run.
27
@4 and other Re: Eyeman

Tim doesn't live in one of those red areas, does he?

This sort of initiative - which I initially thought was a really good way to make a point - blesses the suburbs and the suburban mentality. Issaquah won't mind having more money stay in king county. And issaquah likes Dino, not Clint.

Still, if this idea gets the red areas off tim I-man's bandwagon, then great.
28
Oh, and excellent map! Love it! We need more and more people to see this.
29
Original Andrew @26,

To be clear, I'm not making a moral argument here. I'm not saying we should cut funding for the poor and disadvantaged in red Washington. I'm just pointing out that inevitably, we will, because that's where the expenditures are.
30
Again, talk of defunding EWA makes for compelling political theater, but definitely doesn't solve any long-term problems. Unless you are proposing secession ("Salish Sea" -- I like that, @24!), the way our state's social programs are structured and administered means that you can't simply take away funding county-by-county without unraveling the whole deal. And remaking all of that would be at least as difficult as doing the two things that have a chance of fixing the budget issues for real: 1) killing the initiative process, and 2) reforming the revenue system with an income tax.

I'm not saying that exercising the nuclear option wouldn't be fun -- especially since many at ground-zero would push the red button on themselves. But it's time to put on our big-girl and big-boy pants and do some difficult work.

Oh yeah -- I am a buzz-kill.
31
@30 too bad. nuclear it is.
32
Well yeah, but if you are voting like that you are being tricked, that is what the party platform is, scare and rile the stupid and the poor so they vote for you.

Very few people vote with reason in mind, and since that party is made up of hustlers and rubes they wont be swayed by reason either. The people they have trusted for years have always been lying to them, they can't trust anything.
33
Mr. Happy @30,

What I'm looking for is an opportunity to disabuse voters on the other side of the state of the notion that Seattle is a welfare queen sucking them dry, and in fact that they benefit more state government than we do. This is a voter education project.
34
Can we get any conservatives to weigh in on this? Yesterday's editorial in the Seattle Times has a lot of republican words, but very few sentences. Interesting that Sound Politics haven't mentioned this at all..... odd.
35
Goldy, Is the chart that supplies the underlying data correct? It just seems to me that neither Whitman (WSU) or Kittatas(CWU) counties are getting enough money to support four year universities. This would explain the oddity of Kittatas as being a tax exporter.
While I don't support many of the ideas being expressed here, because the are bad policy, the Seattle legislative delagation needs to push some of them in order to get the needed funding for all parts of the state. A key goal of the effort should be getting eastern washington republicans to align with reality and make them understand the consequences of there anti-tax proposals. (I can dream)
36
Goldy @33: I get it, Goldy, and I appreciate it. It's a compelling, indisputable argument. So, not to snark -- which is exactly what I'll do now -- it's just not news for anyone who's been paying attention for the last, I dunno, *50* years.

And problem is, the people on the other side apparently don't pay attention. I think it's fair to say that the majority of the electorate lets their immediate, visceral reactions trump their long-term interests. Most will probably say, "I'd be happy to trash all forms of government. They don't do sh*t for me anyways." And yeah, eventually when it all goes to hell they'll realize what they did; but I don't think you're going to change their minds with paltry facts.

Oh, and @31 Will, I guess you are now free to have fun and press the button...

I'm such an a**hole... ;-)
37
Next step: redivide Washington and Oregon along the Cascades. Let the eastside do whatever they want with what little tax revenue they have left. We'd still have to deal with a few right wingers in Lewis County and other assorted spots, but there's not enough of those to win a statewide election.
38
I'm all for it. Starve the fuckers so they understand who has the POWER!!!
39
Goldy, thank you very, very much for this information. It answers a question that I've been asking for a long, long time.
40
Goldy, it would be great to see a followup to this. I'd love to know what the money-sucking welfare cases of Eastern Washington are spending their checks on. What state programs benefit them in a disproportionate way?
41
What I'm looking for is an opportunity to disabuse voters on the other side of the state of the notion that Seattle is a welfare queen sucking them dry, and in fact that they benefit more state government than we do. This is a voter education project.

BINGO! Those idiots need to understand how things actually work in this state, and that if they keep biting the hand that feeds them, that maybe they'll go without supper.
42
pdk @35,

Well, as I've previous explained, there are two ways of determining expenditures—where the benefits are received, and where the benefits are expended—and in some spending categories, it's hard to figure out what balance to use. But since Rep. Anderson used benefits received as the basis for his charts and spreadsheet, that's what I used in this post. And it's also probably the better metric for DSHS.

For the most part there isn't a huge disparity in the two methods when looking at expenditures per county relative to each other, but 4-year colleges stands out. Under method one (benefits received in the county where the student resides), Whitman receives only $11 million in benefits, but under method two, $119 million. In truth, it's somewhere in between, as most of the WSU students reside elsewhere, but Whitman surely benefits from all the jobs and related business created.

This is one of the reasons why my first post focused on K-12 education, as those expenditures are almost entirely in the form of grants to local school districts, and thus both methods are one and the same.
43
Okay, it's cute that Goldy is expending so much effort on this topic, but I'm really having a hard time with the notion that cutting per-capita spending in the least-populous counties in the state* is going to do anything at all to help us with our fiscal woes. Would anybody care to explain?

*Other than Yakima (235k) and Stevens (45k), all of the tier 2 tax importers have fewer than 25,000 residents.
44
Judging from the 65% vote against I-1098 (income tax on the richest 1.3% / B&O tax reduction for small business / property tax reduction for everyone), somewhere in the neighborhood of 63% of Washingtonians are too profoundly ignorant or stupid for anything other than a subsidy- and service-deprival beatdown to get their attention. When starving the beast leads to starving the morons, maybe they'll start wising up to the virtues of progressive taxation and a First World level of government services. I say cut 'em off, let 'em suffer, and then offer them a solution at the next election.
45
Sean P. @43,

Um... the tax importing counties add up.

But the point is, if you're gonna cut state spending, there really is no long term choice but to disproportionately impact the red parts of the state, as they currently enjoy a disproportionate share of state expenditures.

Please wait...

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