You may have said the same thing, but not as your direct experience. People saying what happened in their own life rarely face the same resistance an expert does, no matter how practically perfect in every way you may be.
"whats that"? way to feign ignorance Fag!
"monster asshole bigot asshole monster" - cool, a sort-of palindrome!
People are oversensitive, but it's sort of understandable. I'm guessing pretty much every bi person (especially bi guys) has had to deal with skeptical "uh huh, sure..."'s upon describing their sexuality, particularly when they are young. I can only imagine it's fucking annoying as hell to have your stated sexuality dismissed as a lie out of hand. The problem is that they have to lay blame at the feet of all those closeted gays and lesbians who found bi a convenient way-station on the way to being fully out.

Never mind how maddening it has to be to hear that you aren't really bi when you get into a LTR. A bi man who ends up with a man is likely to get even more skepticism that they aren't gay.
So, no guys on the "buy now, gay later" plan?
I know I'll probably get some heat, but from my experience, I believe most men are bi. I think most men have buried their attraction to men so deep because of cultural conditioning you would need Chilean miners to find it. But I think we are just naturally very multisexual as a species. I use as my evidence men in prison. Many men will engage in homosexuality when there is no other option. (Please don't lecture me on rape, I'm talking willingly engage)
That study seemed pretty flawed. Find some bisexuals. Show them porn of naked ladies. Show them porn of naked dudes. See if they get boners at both.

What if some days I feel like looking at porn of ladies and other days I feel like looking at porn of dudes?
Regarding that study: there's more to sexual orientation than porn preferences. I'm more into men than women, but I only enjoy naked women porn. I couldn't date anyone who fits the stereotypical (and mostly false) man or woman archetype. I need a fellow androgynous-leaning personality. Body is secondary, and genitalia - whatever.

And all this from a fag who has the hots for a certain female firefighter? Admit it: teh bi is for realz.
@7 - They did that (more or less) - "Thirty-three of the men identified themselves as bisexual."

However, an amazing graduate student at University of Utah replicated the Rieger et al. study changing three things she identified as potential flaws (pretty sure the operational definition of bisexual was one of them) and found results completely consistent with what you'd expect to see if bi/straight/gay men (and women) really are what they say. Unfortunately, I don't think it's been published yet, which is sad because I'd love to see it get some press (I saw her present at APA's convention last summer).
From my understanding of ancient history, what we would describe as "bisexuality" is not only common, but utterly essential to the heroic ethos. For, on the one hand, a king among men must be virile enough, at least, to produce children; but, at the same time, it is not possible to possess anything more than lust for a woman according to the heroic ethos, she being so clearly mentally and physically inferior in that logic. As a consequence, heroic men pursued lusty relationships with women, but relationships of (maybe) actual) love with men, whether sexually realized or not.

I think all Dan Savage does here is suppose statistics. Admittedly, statistics is not the domain of anecdote, reliably, but is much better suited to empirical study.
The letter write sounds like a real pain in the ass. No doubt she is also a vegan. Anyone that has that high of a threshold to get laid by a male bisexual should instead just fuck herself.

Call me a cynic, but I think that most "bi" guys who are in a relationship with a female are 9 times out of 10 closeted gay. Just the way I see it...

People are messed up. People have to watch out for the closet alcoholic, closet misogynist, closet asshole, and anyone who has mental health issues or commitment issues... and that's a lot of men (and women) right there.

If a woman meets a sweet, attractive bi guy and they have a great relationship and great sex, and he leaves her for a guy and declares himself gay, why is that worse than him leaving her for another woman? I mean, if the sex or relationship is a mess (which I'd think it would be if he were closeted), she should have dumped him for that anyway.
I think we need a new term here - "biromantic." If you can have a crush on, be infatuated with, fall in love with, either sex, then you're biromantic. I think there are a LOT of bisexual men, but damn few biromantic ones. Off the top of my I-have-no-real-idea head, I'd say female biromantics outnumber male biromantics at least 4 to 1.
I am bi, about a 3.5 on the Kinsey scale. In retrospect, the only consistently good thing about my first marriage, to a woman, was the sex. My second marriage, to a guy, is a much better match.

I don't mind the skepticism too much (after all, bi is a stepping stone of self-identification for many), and I can understand why true bisexuality seems threatening. Part of this is stems from wrongful assumption that bisexual = slut who has to have sex with both genders to be satisfied, and part of it comes from general insecurity, which I call the "I can compete against another man/woman, but how do I compete against a member of the opposite sex" syndrome. But it really comes down to the questions any other couple faces as to monogomy and the meaning of GGG within the partners' sexual desires/needs/fetishes.

Over the years, my husband has gone from doubting the existence of bisexuality in general to really wanting to watch me have sex with a woman.
Huh. I'm a bisexual female with a strong preference to ONLY date bisexual men. I much prefer them; I find them in general to be much more relaxed and comfortable in their sexuality than strictly straight men.

I actually know quite a number of bisexual men who are well into their 40s or older, and who are definitely not just going through a phase. Or if they are, it's a very, very long phase.
I know exactly one man who I would describe as bisexual (we dated in college actually, when he was "straight") and he has been dating men pretty exclusively for a decade now. He says he's still attracted to (some) women physically but he feels much more emotionally attracted to men. I think the issue for many bi-leaning guys is that it is so difficult to be "comfortable in your sexuality" as the LW says-- women will doubt you are attracted TO them, men will think you're a borderline closet case-- that you end up rounding yourself up to gay or straight based on your leanings. Woe to the true Kinsey 3s!
Well gosh:

a) check
b) out and active since HS, check
c) check [het women are more plentiful, but it's easier to get into mens' pants]
d) cover it on the first date, check

So I'm exactly the kind of fella LW is looking for--4 for 4 on her check-list. The only problem is my check-list:

a) People that don't have bullshit off-the-bat critical and mistrustful check-lists.

More or less what @ 13 said. I don't dig poeple who go in distrusting me. If I'm a prick of any stripe I should get to earn that blame fair and square.
You know, the questions surrounding that study seem to be fairly simply answered to me. There was another study (I can't find it right now, but I seem to remember it was on Slog) in which they tested the genital response of both women and men, and found that women fairly consistently reported a much lower percieved arousal level than men relative to their actual arousal level. Now, one could assume there that women haven't the slightest clue what's happening to their bodies, but that seems less likely than the idea that men have to learn to control their physical arousal level since they don't want to be getting boners during a business meeting (or whatever)... I'm not a guy, so I can't say for sure, but it seems to me that the physical arousal level in a test like this - where they directly measure genital response - wouldn't necessarily match the men's percieved arousal level. And in the study that Dan links to, this could be what's indicated by the fact that a full third of each group didn't show any significant physical arousal at all.
My boyfriend is bi and leans a little more towards other guys than women. But here's why I'm not worrying about that:

He's dated guys. He's had sex with them and loved them and had his heart broken by them and broken a few hearts himself. He knows exactly how much he likes men, but he chose me over any of them.

All of the gay guys I've known who temporarily identified as bi were pretty inexperienced when they said that. Once they got a good taste of the cock, they had it figured out.
There's some new science on this, including advance word of upcoming academic papers.

See . .
My critical, mistrustful checklists and I have a very loving relationship, @18. Don't hate.
I feel the same way no matter who's saying it. I don't care who you are, you are saying I am not trustworthy because of my sexual orientation. Or that you don't trust me to know my own sexual orientation.

And if that's the position you take, fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

What of a woman hetero married for years who comes out as lesbian? A married man who comes out as gay? A person who comes out in their 40s as transgender? Perhaps they're lying as well because all the data that you have up to that point says they're straight and cisgender? Of course not, you'd never say that. I hope.

Never mind your data is bad. The test used to generate data by NYT sucks to determine sexuality - orientation and porn preference are not that closely entwined. And really, I love the Times, but when your article title is "Straight, Gay, or Lying?", I have no interest in anything else you have to say because no matter what data you're going to be talking about your mind is already made up.

So yeah, it's biphobic. Bi people can totally be biphobic, just like gay guys can really hate those effeminate gay guys and if that's not homophobic I don't know what is.
I might be a little skeptical of a very young inexperienced bi guy, not because I doubt his attraction to both men and women, but because attraction alone does not dictate sexuality. There's also the matter of compatibility, I think a lot of bisexuals (male and female) are only successful in relationships with one gender.

I think there are a lot of bi guys out there who just find it easier to just be with men or women and avoid the drama and suspicion. It's a rare and wonderful man who is comfortable enough with his sexuality to be openly bisexual.
Twenty three comments any only three negative responses toward texmex.

Dan, from now on, every time you're called a genocidal biphobic monster asshole bigot asshole monster, post this. Every time.

Bi people can totally be biphobic, just like gay guys can really hate those effeminate gay guys and if that's not homophobic I don't know what is.

This is absolutely true. But I don't think that either Dan or texmex are biphobic. They're just realistic with a helping of cynicism on the side.
And by "this," I mean what texmex wrote.
But #27, I do that all the time, with friends and relationships. All it's doing is stating what kind of standards I have. People do it all the time.

"I'd date a Christian, as long as he's a UCC type of Christian."
"I'd date a leftist as long as she didn't try to drag me to the protests."
"I'd date someone without a college degree, but he'd need to be self-educated."
"I'd date a republican, but not a neocon-type. I Meghan McCain-type."
"I'd date an alcoholic, but she'd need to have been sober at least a year and never miss a support group meeting."
"I'd date a sports-lover, but he'd have to understand that I'm never going to games with him."

And on and on. It's all about our preferences, boundaries, and autonomy. And our own protection of ourselves. Relationships are difficult and can really hurt if/when they don't work out.

Texmex simply stated the standards by which she'd date a bisexual. And they really don't seem all that draconian.
Alanmt @ 15 - Congratulations on being well matched. Just out of curiosity, how would you advise a gay man with a bi partner to respond when/if the I-Gave-Up-Women-for-You card is played in GGG negotiations? It never happened to me, but I have always suspected that, if it had, I'd have given away the store out of guilt.
@LW: I meet your criteria. Fuck you.
News flash: the Internet is crawling - and I do mean CRAWLING - with an insane number of guys who, while living with a female partner, are also trolling for cock. I don't make the news, I just...
I get bones at both, and I'm 100% gay, so what's your point?
I'm a bi female who likes to date bi men too. But that's partially because I have a strong yearning for an MMF threesome with actual sexual interaction between the men. However, it's also because bi men seem less worried about maintaining their masculinity and just seem to get me better. Awesome sex is a requirement in my relationships these days, so I find it unlikely that I'd be dating a gay man. But if I were, that's life. There are no certainties.
Crossdressers don't seem to fit this yes or no mold when it comes to male sexual attraction. Are there any bi studies on crossdressers? Very curious.

I don't think the bi guy gets to play that card. It just seems kinda douche-y to me. I wouldn't play that card and I might kick the guy who does to the curb.

Either you are a monogamous couple or you aren't. If you are, then biguy gave up being with everyone else for you. Let him watch bi porn if he wants. But if you both agreed your relationship would be monogamous, then he knew the score when he entered it. If you are not a monogamous couple, then I think it would be wrong for you not to consider letting him play with some breasts and vag once in awhile, subject to whatever rules you have agreed to re thirds.
Alanmt: Thanks much. I was thinking along the lines of another reason why someone might not date to go with the ones you stated.

I can't speak from experience about nonmonogamy, though theoretically I'd allow various preconditions as reasonable. I hadn't considered the differences between No Women and No Other Men - interesting. I could see G telling B, "Lips that touch [blank] shall never touch mine," but then B should make a similar restriction for balance.
As far as the letter goes: meh. I agree enough with the idea of questioning any potential partener's sincerity and motivations that I can't be bothered to get too worked up about the subtleties.

I do, however, get worked up about bad science. That study you keep referencing qualifies. For a start, the sample size was 101 men, only 33 of whom were in the bisexual group. Thirty three is not a big enough to get an accurate picture when dealing with people. About of a third of the men in each group weren't turned on at all by porn of either type. That brings the bisexuals whose responses they base their conclusions on down to about 22. It also leads into the point that, as you clearly know, there are a whole hell of a lot of different things that turn different people on, for different reasons. You've run letters from lesbians who like gay male porn, gay men into S&M games with women, and loads of fetishists more turned on by a set of heels or than by the wearer. There was no double blind used - the reserchers are the ones who did the interviewing and selected the porn the participants watched and interpreted the results. Typically, a person who only wants to have sex or romance with someone of the opposite sex will identify as straight and a person who only wants to have sex or romance with someone of the same sex will call themselves gay. That leaves a whole lot of middle ground lumped into bi - people who envision longterm intimacy with one sex but like to fuck the other, who like both equally, who like boobs and dick but not pussies and chest hair, who are only into one of the sexes if they are being dominated or dominating, who are exclusively attracted to the androgenous, who would be straight but find gay sex transgressively kinky and therefore hot, etc. Bi men can be turned on only by gay porn AND STILL BE BI. Even if both types of porn are matched in set, quality, themes, acts, enthusiasm, etc., which seems difficult to achieve. There is a selection bias for bisexuals on the higher end of the Kinsey scale in recruiting participants through "gay and alternative" newspapers. Self-selection is notoriously unreliable. I'd like to know more about the copy of the ads.
Dan, You are famous, at least 25% of the world will always hate you for that.
I don't know about the rest of that crap, but I can understand the 5-year rule (although I'd slide on 3). It can be infuriating to later discover that someone is actually gay or straight instead of bisexual.
I'm a bisexual woman and I would definitely date a bi guy. The bi guys I meet tend to be the politically active ones because I'm politically active. If a bi guy marches in the streets fighting for marriage equality, ENDA, the repeal of DOMA, hate crimes against LGBTQ, etc., chances are he is pretty secure with his sexual identity and has had enough sexual experience to tell where he is on the Kinsey scale.

Plus, it's great to be with someone you don't have to explain yourself to. And he might be more open to the idea of polyamory or open relationships--or at least discussing the subject.
Bi the way, Dan, you are a "genocidal biphobic monster asshole bigot asshole monster"--because that's your schtick.
@40: Moses smell the roses, do you judge all potential lovers by a political litmus test?
I'd say there's a weak correlation at best between how politically active in favor of LGBTQ acceptance someone is and how sure and comfortable they are with their own sexuality.
BI here, thought more into guys and girls. But also when I am with a woman--guess what--people think I'm Str8. When with a guy - guess what, gay! Neither is true. I think we all need to drop the labels and concentrate on quality relationships that burst with joy--and integrity. Don't judge me, I won't judge you ;-)

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