*Facepalm*

Wrong.

While I agree with your spending priorities (PP should be funded, and Army ads on stock cars is something we can live without for a while), no one is saying NASCAR is a "basic human right." That's a rhetorical tweak, right? You don't really believe that, do you?

BTW, you are aware, I hope, that if military recruitment drops low enough, there will be a draft. And you now won't be able to get out of military service for being gay. So work on those push-ups, kids.

Topping is generally more energetic for gays than it is for straights. So we have a couple of legs up, anyway.

#2 - You are aware that military recuitment won't drop much simply because NASCAR is no longer sponsored by the Pentagon, right? In fact, the military doesn't have a hard time AT ALL getting enough recruits to fill available billets, and this is with a war going on.

@ 4 - I'm not saying that recruitment would necessarily drop if the NASCAR sponsorship ends, I'm only saying that liberals should not be against military recruitment per se because the alternative is not a pleasant one.

@5 - I'd agree with you except I strongly suspect we could reduce current military personnel to 25% of what it currently is and still be in absolutely no real danger. A draft implies it is for national defense and it has been 20 years since our military was about that and well more than that since our defense was that dependent on man power.

I was prepared to be outraged when I clicked the link, but I'm not. Why should Congress start dictating where military recruitment advertising dollars are spent? I believe in a smaller defense budget and military myself, but this seems like the wrong way to go about it.

Funny coincidence that there's been this orchestrated campaign to try and prove that PP is supporting trafficking of women by providing basic services to immigrant women who are forced into prostitution. I can't believe America treats its women like this. It's positively third world. Republican will pretend it's about abortion, but it's really about women's health and abusing all citizens (other than those corporate ones who contribute to the RNC - thanks Clarence, Antonin, Samuel, John and Anthony).

Ok, ok, I have an idea! What if the military sponsored Planned Parenthood? Then everybody's happy! They could also do a much better job of protecting the doctors and staff at the clinics. Win-win! (sorry, I know this isn't a funny situation but I just couldn't help myself).

Honestly Cienna, your non sequitur confusion of advertising media buys and public health funding is not doing anything for women's health. You're just making the our side look stupid.

Your "a couple of legs up" @3 is very well done, rob!

@10: What's the non sequitur about taxpayer dollars taken away from funding women's health at the same time taxpayer are dollars recommitted to sponsoring NASCAR? Yeah, $7 million is not $330 million--I still think it's a heinous gesture. Sorry if you don't agree.

BTW, you are aware, I hope, that if military recruitment drops low enough, there will be a draft.

No there fucking won't. We might actually get out of Iraq, though.

I never really understood how the Fed Gov't could get away spending money to sponsor sports teams and the like. I really don't see it as effective recruiting unlike those marine commercials where the guy is fighting the lava monster. But back to the point, the Republicans must have made some crazy conscious decision to piss off the left and moderates as much as possible becasue it looks like that is their only goal right now

Cienna.

NASCAR "sponsorship" is an advertising. media. buy. It is not a subsidy. If they didn't spend the money on that, they'd buy billboard space or TV time. See, the military has to recruit? To attract a lot of candidates; more than they need hopefully? So they can pick and choose the best ones? Because if you don't work at recruiting it all you get are rejects and losers and guys with criminal records joining the Army who then go out and commit war crimes?

Aw fuck it. Be hysterical if you want to. Good luck with that.

Chris in Vancouver WA is quickly becoming the gay Will in Seattle.

@2 and @6

I don't think this is necessarily an anti-military recruitment argument, rather it is against spending money on an effort that in no way aids recruitment goals. I can guarantee you that nobody has joined up for the Army, or any other branch for that matter, on the basis of NASCAR sponsorship. That being the case, it seems extremely wasteful to spend the money that way. A more effective way to spend that money would be to get more recruiters in schools and colleges/universities. Especially since we need more good leaders in our military at a time when a large portion of the senior leadership is nearing retirement age. We need to shore up the loses in the middle ranks that will happen as they ascend to take spots left vacant by the soon to retire. So, take that $7 million and spend it on staffing the recruitment, not plastering logos and paying for race cars.

#17 "I can guarantee you that nobody has joined up for the Army, or any other branch for that matter, on the basis of NASCAR sponsorship."

Um. Really?

This entire discussion is really just masturbation; there's no way this budget is going to become the final budget.

@18

If you actually believe that is the case then you think awfully little of people who serve in the military. Those who join usually join for a few reasons; because they have no other options, they actually believe in service, they actually want to make the military a career, they want to use the military as a springboard via experience and training and the G.I. bill. To think someone would join because Ryan Newman drives the Army car is insulting to their intelligence and trivializes the major commitment people make when enlisting.

@19:

http://www.rules.house.gov/Media/file/PD…

No, it doesn't specifically mention it. The House vote was to defeat a Democratic attempt to end NASCAR sponsorship.

I can't believe SLOGgers are semi-supporting the military here. They have plenty of money as it is. Instead of debating whether to allow the military to keep advertising at NASCAR or not, they should just cut the 7 million out altogether. And then follow that up but cutting another couple billion from them.

Still, it's all meaningless anyway, as 5280 said... this budget proposal was already dead on arrival.

@22
I'm not supporting the NASCAR sponsorship, but I do think recruitment does need to improve so we can actually get good military leaders in the ranks, instead of the best of the rest, which is the situation all too often now. Our military needs more college educate leaders, not just officers but senior enlisted men as well. And the current focus on high school recruitment isn't getting the job done. So, if the republicans want to spend money on recruitment, at least spend it wisely.

Let's just end the war(s) and then there'll be money for NASCAR and Planned Parenthood... among other things.

@20 "Coca-Cola's the world's number one soft drink, but they spend more money than anybody on advertising. I guess that's how come they stay number one." - Tracy Flick, Election

Republican stupidity overwhelms me so many times, but the worst part is its "fans"!! they accept and venerate whatever a wealthy republican says no matter what they say... Well at least our representatives are getting good seats for the NASCAR races!!!!

This is for your information: "The United States spends over $87 billion conducting a war in Iraq while the United Nations estimates that for less than half that amount we could provide clean water, adequate diets, sanitation services, and basic education to every person on the planet"

Yes, let's not lose sight of the fact that we spend twice as much on our military as all of the rest of the world combined spends on their militaries. Something's really, really wrong with this picture.

Sorry, i forgot to mention that the last quote is from 2005!! As my "fellows" republicans should know; as of today, We have spent over 750 BILLION DOLLARS in Iraq and another 400 in Afghanistan. What about if We would have spent all that money (or at least half) inside the United States??

@20, if advertising for military recruitment doesn't make a difference, why the fuck do they do it?

Obviously, it makes a difference. The ads are aimed at teenagers, and whatever kids see in their environment while they grow up gets incorporated into their internal conception of "how the world works." You're hungry? Go to Subway. You need a job? Join the Army (one might argue that the kids watching NASCAR are already lost).

On another note, if Planned Parenthood isn't taking federal funding, doesn't that free them from certain conditions that were attached to the federal funds? If they got $330 million, 300 of that probably went to filling out paperwork...

Broken-record time (but clearly needed): @28, don't forget the additional $2-3 TRILLION we cannot escape (nor should we) for lifetime care of our wounded veterans, and costs of demobilizing (if we ever do): shipping home all the personnel and equipment, and replacing all the clapped-out HumVees, etc. whose drivetrains and suspensions were never designed to cope with 2-3 tons apiece of afterthought armor.

Republicans hate women. True story bro.

@29: But these kids in big Nascar markets have few other options beyond the military -- I know, I came from one. Plastering an Army logo on a stock car isn't going to tell them anything about job prospects they don't already know.

"Wow! i was going to work on a factory farm for a pittance or start cooking meth until my lab exploded but this sponsorship has really inspired me to 'Aim High!'"

@myself: I know I'm mixing metaphors but I'm hoping you'll allow me some poetic license.

@30: Actually I'm pretty sure this budget cuts money for veterans too. Oh... it's only homeless veterans? I guess that's ok then.

@25
The reason Coke is #1 has less to do with advertising and more to do with the amazing supply and distribution chain they have. The reason so many small non-profits can get into various poor and conflict stricken places is because they latch onto Coke's distribution channels. It's not because of their advertising.

@29

They advertise to keep the brand in the minds of people. But, as judgementalist said, those kids aren't being told anything they don't already know. So brand advertising only serves to remind them of their last option, not to convince them, which they'll get from their counselor anyway.

I guess I should mention at this point that I think planned parenthood is a great organization and that without legalized abortion we'd be knee deep in murderers and domestic terrorists. We obviously should spend at least as much as we do on education, which is far from sufficient, on family planning and sexual education.

A draft sure would save a lot of money, and not just this $7 million. Think how small your standing forces could be if you could conjure up a million troops when needed with the stroke of a pen.

One of the worst military advertising campaigns (I forget which branch) showed a bunch of guys crawling through the mud, shooting targets, running in formation, and then eating breakfast, and had the slogan: "We do more before 8am than most people do all day!"

Ummm... thanks, but I think I'll sleep in instead.

Yeah, and you can't get drunk at the end of the day either. I mean, really, fuck that noise.

This is probably the most damning indictment of the Democratic Party that I have read this year. To lose the House to a party that favors NASCAR over women's health should make every Democratic Party operative hang his or her head in shame.

@35 You keep refreshing Coca-Cola telling yourself Enjoy Coke that advertising open happiness has nothing Diet Coke has 0 calories to do Sprite with subliminal persuasion.

I'll sit back and watch you buy shit you really don't need.

@38 Hahaha, Yeah I remember watching that one and thinking "man, I have never not wanted to join the army more, who is running this ad campaign?"

You all have no idea. Marketing and sponsorship works, same idea as impulse buying. You see it at the time, and you buy or go. Its human nature.
You cant take a personal opinion and expect people as a whole to agree with you.
We all seem to be quibbling over how OTHERS should spend the tax dollars, but has anyone thought about just having self-responsibility? Buying locally?
I can guarantee all of you can look around your immediate area and see personal waste.
Stop arguing about national issues and get into your local movements. Make an example of your immediate area and control spending locally. If we all worry about our local counties and towns and let others worry about theirs this will get done quicker.
Nobody can tackle everything at once, but if we all fix our local area 1 step at a time, before you know it the pieces come together. Ive seen it on small scale, it works.
And im a hard working broke conservative with every ethnic possibility married into my family and quite a few of them are gay.
To speak about a people or party like they are all cut-outs and are all exactly the same is the pinnacle of ignorance.

Can someone please point me to the actual section number of the bill that states this whole nascar mess? I can't find it and I'd like to have some proof when dealing with jerks.

I know you guys dont care but planned parenthood is a very bad organazation.They perposly hand out condomes that are low qaulity and birth control that is to the lowest standard.This enshured that the women get pregnant so they can make money off the termnation of the baby.Fuck that if I was a women i would demand better care not sloppy care its about quality.Another thing we as tax payer should not have to pay for your bills if you get nocked up yes it happens but go cry me a river and get your own money.I dont even like nascar but im willing to pay taxes to help them because at least there entertaing the masses and doing there job right unlike planned parenthood.

You guy s gonna hate me for telling u this but planned parenthood is a bullshit scam. They purposly give out free condomes and birth control but there condomes dont work 4 shit and they would make the birthcontrol given out is purposely weak. So the chic will get knocked up so she has to go back 4 a free or discount abortion. Anyways the clinic makes money from the gov before. FUCK THAT im a taxpayer i don't like paying for shit that doesnt work.At least NASCAR is advertising somthing that works. The US Army and every once in a while you get to watch them crash too