SL Letter of the Day: Two "What Do You Consider Cheating" Questions

Comments

2
The second letter is a joke, right? Sex with the person you are committed to can't be cheating unless you have some sort of withholding contract with each other.
3
CGWTK
1. It's not cheating.
2. Seems like you're headed to Dykesville by way of the Bi-Tunnel. Welcome.
4
1) Dude's too full of himself. 2) Being Bi really doesn't have anything to do with it. 3) Why get married to someone who just doesn't do it for you? Didn't you know this before?
5
PSW

You don't say that you are on a cam on xtube, just that you posted pics and video. I don't think that qualifies as cheating any more than viewing porn does.
6
I guess I missed the part where the wife is controlling because she might hypothetically be uncomfortable with her husband baring all on the Internet.... Is this somehow considered controlling and insecure behavior now??
7
Confused Girl Wants to Know: Not cheating, because you are having sex with your boyfriend, as opposed to someone other than your boyfriend. If you would rather have sex with a woman, though, that might mean you should break up with your boyfriend and/or look into having sex with a woman.
8
I'll judge whether or not this guy's cock is as hot as he claims, so LW, what is your xtube account name?

Inquiring minds want to know...
9
Wow, he's got an amazing cock and can read minds. No wonder everyone's so into him. I have an idea, before he goes off and posts videos on the internet (that his wife will no doubt find out about) how about he actually _talk_ to that bride of his, rather that just "be sure" of how she really feels.

And why, prey tell, did he marry her just three short years ago if he knew that she really wasn't comfortable with his bisexuality? My guess is that he agreed to monogamy when he thought it was going to be easy, and now wants a "take-back" so he has to make the fact that he's unfulfilled her fault. I think if he doesn't want to be monogamous that's fine, but he needs to own that's his deal rather than somehow making it be about his unsupportive wife. It seems like she was pretty upfront about what she wanted from the beginning and he agreed to it. Maybe he shouldn't have agreed, but she should be clued in if the deal is going to change. Better to have the make-it-or-break-it conversation now than in 15 years.
10
@6 - well, it depends. What is it she's uncomfortable about? If it's a fear that, say, he might accidentally reveal his identity and cause embarrassment to them, then her concern might be rational. Hopefully, though, he's shown care in avoiding that. More likely it's just discomfort with other people, far away, finding his body attractive and enjoying his exhibitionism. And even if you think she's justified in complaining, that's still a show of insecurity.
11
If I were his wife, my concern wouldn't be whether or not it counts as "cheating", it would be what is going to happen when someone we know finds out about him posting dirty videos online? In most cases, that could result in losing his job, losing their friends, etc. And all those things are a risk to her. She's not at risk of STIs, but she has a pretty big economic and social risk if he's posting videos like that online. Its like calling a wife controlling because she doesn't like her husband going to atlantic city to gamble with a significant portion of their mutual money.
12
One of his biggest turn ons is being found sexually attractive by other people? Wow, you don't say! What an odd thing to trip your trigger. Certainly a rare kink, that is.

--end sarcasm here--

There's no reason to believe that his wife knew he was into exhibitionism when she married him. I don't think his bisexuality or gender matter at all, really-- the central question is whether a spouse should be expected to put up with his/her spouse posting sex videos on the internet. Whether they should or shouldn't, he definitely should tell her about it so that she can make that decision now rather than wait until somebody else tells her they found current video of her husband masturbating on a porn site.
13
I think PSW should show his wife the letter he wrote, so she can understand his desire a little better. I bet he hasn't been nearly so explicit and evocative with her.

Also, fwiw, I believe that CGWTK is a guy, picturing a cock in place of his girlfriend's face. Ick. CGWTK probably should not show his/her partner the letter.
14
@13

I kind of thought that was a gay couple and the LW was getting oral and imagining vaginal. But then I thought maybe "girl" really meant girl.
15
I think it's a bit harsh to call the wife insecure and controlling. Nothing in the letter suggests that she's anything worse than sexually and maritally conventional in her preferences around fidelity. Maybe they are a mismatch because he wants something different, but it's unfair to pathologize her vanillaness. Incidentally, not being able to "make" a woman be turned on visually is not so unusual. Some people are built like that and it's no more a sexual flaw than......having to cavort on the internet to feel fulfilled.
16
@11 - You can lose your job and your friends by posting a jerk-off video online? Wait, is this 1950?
17
@16, assuming he didn't hide his face, do you think most employers would consider that an act of excellent judgment? If they live in a conservative part of the country, do you think a lot of their friends would stick by them after the gossip mill got busy?

I'm still confused, though, about how he knows that he was the one being watched in those primal scenes, and that the guys he was watching were not turned on by him watching them be turned on by watching him watching them...
18
@10
Where exactly do we draw the line between "insecure" and "normal emotional response?" Insecure suggests there's something wrong with her. But is there really wrong or somehow controlling to want to keep your partner's nakedness to herself?

Personally, I don't mind at all if others find my partner physically attractive. They are free to ogle... Long as the clothes stay on and the hands stay off. The sexy naked time is just for me. That somehow makes me insecure?? Because I want to keep some things just between us?
19
Bah, lots of women get turned on by men being turned on by them etc. etc. etc. And if a woman gets partnered up, that visual appeal will inevitably lessen over time and she'll be with someone who doesn't get turned on by watching her walk around naked anymore. Or a guy gets older and he's just not that visually driven anymore (happens).

Harsh to call the wife "controlling" and "insecure" when she's expressing a pretty conventional view about monogamy.

20
@18 - again: if you're afraid of having other people be attracted to your partner's naked body, with no contact and only the most minimal of communication involved ... then yes, that's insecure. That's not saying it's inherently "wrong". Whether that's an acceptable insecurity that you're entitled to have indulged is ultimately for you and your partner to decide. But it's still just that.
21
@16: Some employers are stuck in the 1950s, especially if one or both of them are in jobs where there's children involved.
22
OMG CGWTK, IDK? RU4 REALZ?
23
Dude, really? Why don't you just own up that you like turning men on because your rationalization makes you sound like a complete dick. "Women can't come just from watching me come." Well, hey, I guess you've got a magical dick, but it only applies to men. With women, looks like you've got to do some work.

And yeah, she's totally in the right to want to keep your (both of your, therefore *hers* as well) private lives private. Quite honestly, as much open-mindedness as I try to keep with my boyfriend, I'd be pissed if I found out he was posting videos on xtube - not because his dick is mine, all mine, but because I teach and my students know what he looks like and my co-workers have met him and I could lose my job if I were associated with a wannabe pornstar. Right or wrong, that's the way it is, and I love my job and want to keep it.

So yes, you are married and she gets some say in the matter, and great that you have this exhibitionist streak, but don't involve her without her consent, and while this means you don't get to control the entire situation, from masturbating your own dick to someone else's orgasm to posting videos without her knowledge or consent, maybe with her consent you can stay married and come up with some sort of compromise. No, you don't get all the toys, but maybe you can have some of them AND keep your wife.
24
It's very encouraging that people aren't drooling over PSW. Haven't a couple of women written in lately who'd be only too happy to fake it while watching him strut his stuff instead of being pressured to have more "regular" sex with their husbands than they like? An opportunist, braggart and narcissist of his calibre really seems quite well suited to an actual pornographic career. If this were my novel, he'd lose his employment and be "discovered" in a bar by some big wig in adult films. He'd realize it was THE career for him, tell his wife he was doing it and she could do as she pleased... and then...?
25
Why did these people marry each other when they are CLEARLY not compatible? Honestly - while I'm fighting for the basic civil right to marry my husband, stupid, assholes are treating marriage like it;s a fucking weekend trip to Vegas. FUCK YOU Porn Star Wannabe... and your STUPID FUCKING WIFE.
26
This would make me insecure because is this really where xtube dude draws the line? Or is this the first step on scratching that "monogamy and hetero life isn't really working for me" itch? This was something he probably didn't even realize (or get honest with himself about) until three years in. So is this it? And would she be wrong for thinking this might just be the tip of the iceberg heading for the SS Monogamy? Because reading between the lines I hear "I really want to have sex with other dudes, and this is the closest I can rationalize to getting there so far"
27
Side question. Post #9 mentioned the B word (in this case, BRIDE). When is the phase of being called a bride technically and correctly supposed to come to an end? One does occasionally encounter people (still men, but perhaps one day women as well) who refer to their brides of some 40, 50 or 60 years' standing, with various proportions of being sweet and being pretentious and that is one thing, but with people married not all that long but what might seem to be beyond the bride stage, such as PSW at the three year mark, I sometimes wonder when the B word pops up. Not that I ever say anything, but I'd hate to think that I've raised an inner eyebrow at someone who was technically being quite correct all along.
28
CGWTK - yes, it's cheating, but cheating of this sort is ok as long as you pick up a hot chick at a bar and bring her home and fuck her brains out under the fake pretense that the hot threeway is for the bf's sole enjoyment. Tell him the truth after you dump him for a field hockey player. He'll understand. And thank you.
29
I am a girl who sure as hell loves watching my long-term male partner walk around naked, and I know like a dozen others. Mutual masturbation is a regular part of my sex life, and I totally love watching a man I care about exposing himself to me. We do exist, and it's not super hard to find us.

I think this is more about him not being happy with monogamy or a hetero lifestyle. And were I the wife, I'd see this as the first steps into non-monogamy - not because of his needs, but because he seems to care more about getting what he wants and less about maintaining the honesty in their relationship. You have needs that you're not willing to go without, you have to disclose that.

That said, not being willing to discuss your partners' needs is pretty much opening the doorway to being lied to. If he has kinks and you don't want to hear it, don't think they're going to just disappear.
30
Anything that would hurt your partner if he/she found out is cheating. Even if it's just having coffee with someone who you know that your partner is/would-be jealous of, then it's cheating. If you don't think it's reasonable for him/her to feel hurt over your actions, then either live with it or find a reasonable partner.

I think this relationship will be over and dead if the Xtube videos are revealed. Sharing any part of your sex life with other people -- even if just on video, even if there is no identity revealed or emotional attachments -- to someone who is easily jealous, this will be devastating. Regardless of how reasonable or safe it might sound to us, to this person it will be shattering.
31
Hello...yet another woman here who loves watching naked men wank and come on themselves (I prefer stomach to chest, but that's a trivial point), which is probably why so many women like me prefer porn and other images that are produced and geared toward a gay male audience.

I simply don't understand why anyone would marry someone whom they don't click with sexually, and with whom they wouldn't feel okay about being honest and forthright. Perhaps that's why I've never been married.

But I disagree with Dan; nothing in the letter suggests that the wife "did agree to marry you—a bi guy with an exhibitionistic streak and a desire for a little male attention." He says that they don't talk about his bisexuality, so presumably he's never divulged that what he'd be missing/is missing from their marriage is the admiration of his cock that he feels he can only get from men.
32
On the second letter: Is it cheating? Well...no. When you're having sex WITH your significant other, it's hard to see how you're cheating ON him or her.

If the question had been, "Is this really FUCKED UP?" I'd have gone with yes.

33
I second everything @29 Secret Agent said!
And I'd like to add that wanting things you partner hasn't expressly stated that they are interested in doesn't necessarily mean they are against them. I've lived long enough to know that you shouldn't ever ASSUME anything. I've been pleasantly surprised more than once!
34
Oh Dan another swipe at monogamy huh? It can't be that couples, like my parents have been married for 40+ years without the urge to cheat. Look I'm not saying that being monogamous is the only way to go, if you want multiple partners go for it. But let's not act holier than thou and claim monogamy doesn't work, it may not work for everyone but it works for some.
35
@34 Jesus christ man, you monogamy lovers have to make Dan qualify the shit out of his stance every fucking time. Of course monogamy CAN work, just like polygamy CAN work, assuming you have loving, communicating partners. But seriously, believing neither of your parents ever once was temped in 40+ years? De Nile ain't just a river in Egypt, buddy.
37

So bi = closeted gay.

Look, I'm so tired of closeted gays (sorry, "bi") at work, coming in and trying to get off on fellow employees because they don't want to deal with being homosexuals.

Put on a leather cap and some hot pants and go cruzin' if you want to get off...just keep out of my cubicle.
38
SecretAgent... yes, exactly! Women aren't these perfumed, sexless creatures who want to tenderly "make love" with our eyes closed.

However, this couple clearly shares the blame: Her for being insecure (yes totally insecure) about her husband's sexual orientation, to the point of not even wanting to think about the fact that he's been with men. Him for putting up with that freeze-out of the topic of his bisexuality and desires. She is the one who's established an environment of shame and silence around sexual desire within their marriage, though.

Seriously, did they get married without anticipating that a person who is bisexual will experience monogamy a little differently than a straight person? Wow.

I agree with Dan, show her this letter, show her the xtube channel, explain what you're getting out of it and let the chips fall where they may. Otherwise this thing isn't gonna work out anyway.
39
I, for one, am a lady who is incredibly turned on by watching a guy with a great cock jerk off and come all over his chest. Jus' sayin'.
40
1 sounds way too penthouse forum for me. I thought Dan was going to blast it for fakeness.
41
@34: Holy blinders (maybe necessary ones). How much do you think you really know about your parents' sex lives?

Because they've remaining married 40 years tells you absolutely nothing about the compromises and negotiations they've made with one another to make in that far.
42
Like a lot of others, I also get the vibe that PSW hasn't really discussed his needs/desires with the wife. I doubt there's been much more discussion beyond "So, by the way, I'm bi" and "I have no problem with that as long as there's no fooling around with anyone else." I'd suggest that he discuss the need for the exhibition, etc with his wife, but I think it's just an excuse.

The lessons for the rest of us are 1. Communication, and 2. Know what you want/need before you commit. It's too late for this couple.
43
What @42 said.

But more importantly: Dan, that is the most fucking depressing venn diagram ever drawn. For the sake of us marrieds who need the illusion of overlap - Couldn't you have made your venn diagram look more like a partial lunar eclipse?
44
I am LW #1! First of all, I'm a lady, and I LOVE watching my bf jerk off. Love it. He will make videos of himself sometimes for me. I tell him all the time how hot I think his cock is, and I always get immediately wet the moment I put my hand on his hard one. I love, love, love it. I also get insanely turned on by being found desirable and have considered posting myself on the internet as well. Problem is, I know for a fact my baby bro is into teh internet porns, and I WOULD DIE if he, my father, or my sister's husband ever stumbled across me.

If I were this man's lady, I would want to know about the xtube channel. I wouldn't be mad about it. I'd be mad about the not knowing about it. However, my opinion might differ from hers. Obviously I'm sympathetic to the LW. Also, I love how people always say, "She's bound to come across this video at some point!" There's so much of the internet I've never seen, and unless she's into porn--and specifically xtube, which I, as a porn-loving woman, have yet to even check out--she may never stumble across the site. Much more likely she comes across the files on his comp and wonders why he made those vids and took those pics. Then she'll assume he did it to send to a specific lady via email, and THEN...

I'm with Dan. Tell her.
45
P.S. My "baby" bro is 22 years old, and I know about his penchant for porn because he's effed up the family comp more than once. I just realized how skeevy the statement in my comment sounded...
46
@44

It's not that you will be surfing for porn and find pictures of your mate, it's that other people are assholes and when they find said pictures they will make you aware of it. Lots of people's lives have been made miserable because they did a porno one time and then were harassed when coworkers or schoolmates or neighbors found out.

Expect that anything you post online will be waved in your face for the rest of your life.
47
Confused girl: Read "my secret garden" or another collection of women's fantasies. I read it and found that my own fantasies are tame by comparison and that lots and lots of straight women think about being with another woman. Fantasies aren't cheating- they're healthy expressions of imagination and curiousity. They also represent something about your psychosexual makeup and the power dynamics of your relationship. It could be that you really want to be with another woman or it could be a way of transferring fears about your relationship.

Personally, I had the opportunity to hook up with women multiple times in real life and didn't do more than make out. I think I am definitely bi-curious, but could go my whole life without exploring that fantasy in real life and be perfectly happy. But that's just me- everyone has to figure out what they want and fantasies are part of finding that out.

Something to consider- your boyfriend might be picturing you burying your face in a pussy, too. lol. Most guys fantasize about lesbians and threesomes. It's a top male fantasy. Almost everyone fantasizes about other people.
48
For letter #2, I would say "No it is not cheating, but perhaps you should explore the possibility that you are more attracted to women than to men."
49
Oh boy. I agree with the comments that the wifes biggest problem is her husband is gay. Yes, I know people will argue about,bisexuality, but I worked at a gay bar long enough to meet plenty of closet cases,like this guy. He is not confronting her with this because I doubt she even knows of this supposed bisexuality.
50
@CGWTK: I think that's generally considered to constitute bisexuality or lesbianism. While the strictest definitions of "cheating" may include fantasizing about others or one's partner as someone or something sie's not (in my experience only adopted by the same people who think 'lustful thoughts' are a sin; both require a belief that we can consciously control our thoughts), those definitions are seriously screwed up, as we can't consciously control our thoughts (at least nowhere near completely enough to avoid fantasy and attraction completely, if we're at all prone to sexual fantasy and attraction). I would say that functional definitions of cheating must involve material behaviors and specifically those that have a direct impact on the other partner (that is, there's an impact whether the person knows about the cheating behavior or not, like a relationship that's taking time or commitment away from a primary relationship, behaviors that expose a partner to STI or unintended parenting risks, behaviors that result in social sanctions that significantly impair one's ability to function in one's community, etc.); this is in contrast to e.g. views that masturbating to pornography or fantasizing about other people is cheating, as the only way these behaviors have an impact on one's partner is if one's partner knows about them (unless, of course, one becomes so wrapped-up in porn or fantasy that it is detracting from sex and/or intimacy in the primary relationship) and any negative impacts are therefore entirely of the partner's construction (e.g. my partner looking at porn is bad because and only because I think that my partner looking at porn is bad; me thinking it's a problem is the sole reason that it presents a problem).

Whether your fantasizing IS 'cheating' is something only you and your partner can determine, as it's up to you to decide what constitutes cheating in your relationship. That said, I see no reason that it SHOULD constitute 'cheating', though it raises some questions about your sexual orientation and desires that you may want to address (or not).

@11: Sweet jesus, how much porn do you people regularly trawl (or do you think your friends regularly trawl)? There are hundreds of millions of people posting porn on millions of porn sites; a majority of even "amateur" postings are still professionals (that is, people being paid in cash money for their porn work; this is true in my experience - I tend toward amateur porn as a political choice, given that most of the problems with how the porn industry operates result from the economic issues involved). Given that this is the case, the likelihood of someone you know happening across your porn video is low to the point of being a non-issue, unless a) your friends or employers watch one hell of a lot of internet porn or b) you are exactly your friends'/employer's type, such that they'll be restricting their internet porn viewing to only the sites/categories/chat channels in which your video(s)/live stream(s) will appear (and even then, your odds are pretty low), and both of these rely on these people even recognizing you in an unfamiliar setting with a (presumably) unfamiliar manner of dress (naked or in sexy/kinky clothes/undergarments). I feel like your odds of the person you've been dating for six months turning out to be a rapist, murder, or abuser are WAY higher than your odds of someone you know stumbling across your internet porn (given the unfortunate frequency of rape, assault, abuse); if those odds don't stop all people (particularly women) from dating, ever, there's no real reason to avoid internet porn posting on the basis of much smaller odds, if that's what it's going to take to get you off. Then again, I may be totally wrong.

@37: I don't think closeted gay men tend to "have a great sex life" with their wives; I think they tend to have nonexistent sex lives with their wives. Also, if you're being sexually harassed at work, you should report it; sexual harassment is not okay no matter who the target and perpetrators are. If you're just being a homophobic fuck's who's decided that people you suspect are gay looking at you ever or engaging in friendly, non-sexual conversation constitutes "trying to get off on fellow employees", then never mind; in fact, if that's the case, you should probably keep your mouth shut, as complaining about having to work with people because you suspect they're gay (and therefore constantly fantasizing about you, because, duh, you're so attractive that everyone must be constantly fantasizing about you) could prove problematic for you.
51
Interesting - of the four females who on their own testimony that they like to watch their men would appear to be at least in this one respect a better match for PSW than his wife, we have one GIRL, one WOMAN and two LADIES. I can see reasons for each.
52
PSW: I'd suggest that you show your wife the first two paragraphs of the letter you wrote Dan and say that you were thinking of sending it to an advice columnist but then decided to show it to her, instead. This is, of course, assuming she's not a SL reader. Start the conversation, and see where it takes you. Maybe she's a lot more turned on by watching you masturbate and walk around naked than you think. Since you can't see most women's arousal as well as a man's, she might be turned on by things that's she's afraid to vocalize. If she can't fulfill that need, perhaps she'll agree with the xtube account as a reasonable alternative to you cheating or to divorce.

A slightly unrelated point: Why do so many bi men end up with women who aren't comfortable with it? There are so many of us women that would love to watch their boyfriend give another guy head. Every time this comes up on SL, there are a host of women wishing they could get their guys more interested in other men. Plus, yes, watching guys masturbate = so, so hot.
53
I'm with @ 38.

The wife is not insecure for wanting monogamy. But she is anti-GGG for being so touchy about her husbands sexuality.
54
@52 Canadian Nurse

In my case I got together with my wife after a couple of previous LTRs with women so at that point I hadn't been with a man in years anyway. Then I met her and was so totally consumed with love that I really didn't give it a thought. We never discussed it.

When you are in an emotionally powerful relationship and having almost continuous, mind-blowing sex the thought of wanting anyone else never occurs to you. I'm older and wiser now but here we are.

Even still I don't require a man. I just require fulfillment with the person I'm with. That's achievable as our history has shown.

FWIW she likes seeing me naked and is turned on by me masturbating as a performance for her. She finds 2 guys having sex to be gross though. Everyone has their own special menu don't they?
55
Another lady here who'd be totally into watching her guy give another guy head. Who also likes to watch him walk around nekkid, and would die happy if he'd jerk off for her. Unfortunately, my bf doesn't really like my lustful attention. It makes him feel insecure; he believes that my high sex drive and visual orientation means I'll leave him eventually for someone else.
56
The definition of "cheating" is not hardwired into our biology. There is a wide range of variability across individuals and cultures over where exactly the line of infidelity is drawn. In some places, a married woman can't be in the same room alone with a man. In other relationships, partners can fuck other people as long as they use condoms.

As cultures have moved away from hyper-conservative ideas of relationships (e.g., sharia law), relationships have become more fulfilling for everyone. There is still room for progress, though -by relaxing our cultural expectations around sexual exclusivity, I think we'd see even more relationship fulfilment, and far fewer divorces.

I can certainly relate to the fear and jealousy people feel around open relationships. I was there myself not long ago. The fact is, however, that my wife wouldn't leave me just because she fucked another man, and I wouldn't leave her if I fucked a delicious hottie. Quite the opposite - I'd appreciate my wife all the more, and it would releave much of the sexual pressure between us.

(Now, if only I could get her to share this point of view.)
57
*Raises hand*
Another woman here who loves the sight of her boyfriend's cock and gets off on watching him masturbate. Really, we are NOT that hard to find.
58
I think you're letting the guy off too easy. He sensed that his wife was uncomfortable with the idea of him being sexual with other men, but he went ahead and married her anyway, and there's no indication that he ever made an effort to communicate with her about her discomfort or honestly talk about ongoing sexual needs he has involving men. Instead he just uses her discomfort as an excuse to let his frustration build up until he absolutely needs to do something sexual behind her back- or actually he has several excuses, and they are all vague and inconsistent- ie, only men get aroused by watching him jerk off, his wife doesn't get aroused by watching him jerk off, he doesn't get aroused by his wife watching him jerk off, etc.

At the very least shouldn't he have talked to his wife before he started the xtube account? Dan I know that you think monogamy is unrealistic and people should have some sort of right to sexual expression outside of their relationships, and while that's totally valid, I think your beliefs have blinded you to the fact the people appropriate your language and ideas as a pretext in order to be selfish, manipulative, and unilaterally demanding on their partners
59
@12: One of his biggest turn ons is being found sexually attractive by other people? Wow, you don't say!

You can mock, but the fact is most straight guys rarely if at all experience that intense, focused, "you are giving me a hardon" kind of attention from strangers. Maybe they'll see it a few times early on in a relationship, but otherwise, forget it.

I still vividly recall my first field trip to the Eagle. Guys on the upper floor catwalk full-on staring down at me with laser focus that was impossible to ignore. A shirtless guy rubbing his thigh against my crotch as I squeezed passed him on the stairway. Another guy leans back against the wall facing me as I'm pissing in a urinal, starts up a conversation while staring at my cock.

I was blown away. That kind of attention was utterly novel to me. For whatever reason, women just don't work like that.
60
@59: For whatever reason, women just don't work like that.

I should qualify that - as the comments above show, some women do work like that. And, I've actually found a scene with women who aren't afraid to walk up to a guy they see on the dancefloor and stick her tongue down his throat. Still, that ain't the norm, or it least it wasn't back when I was in my 20s.
61
@seandr The Eagle? Are you from Dallas, or are there Eagles everywhere? Just curious...

Women don't do that as much as men for a number of reasons, not all of which are tied to their biology or an inherent difference in male and female nature. We live in a world that feels very different for women and men in an external sense. Every woman I know thinks about the possibility of her getting raped on a regular basis. No man I know thinks about the possibility of getting raped on even an infrequent basis. Men will leer at you because they don't think you're going to turn around and throw them down and force them to have sex with you in response to a come-on. Women sometimes worry that if they even make eye contact with you, you will follow us out to the dance club parking lot and try to eff us without our consent. A man can come on to another man and feel relatively safe in the assumption that whatever interaction takes place, it will stop when he says so. A woman could walk up to you, stick her tongue down your throat wanting only to make out, and end up in a situation she wasn't asking for (at least, that's what's going through the woman's mind when she's thinking, "Damn, I'd love to go shove my tongue down his throat..."). Believe me, if I weren't worried about rape, I'd be ogling the shit out of strange men all the time. But since I wouldn't want to be having sex with most of them in a real sense, I don't. I just ogle my bf instead. (Caveat: I believe women should be able to act however they want without the fear of being raped. I also do not believe all men or even half of all men are rapists. I also know that men do get raped, and men do get sexually harrassed. My point is that socially, women have been programmed to see rape around every corner. Rape is a real issue. We may like penis way more than men will ever know because we've got our gaurds up.)
62
@seandr: Oh, yeah, and if the Eagle you're referring to is anything like the one in Dallas, I don't know that you can compare it to everywhere else in the world. It's not like that was happening at the grocery store. If you went to an Eagle-like place where there were women, I'm sure there'd be some hot n' heavy come ons coming atcha.
63
@62 There's an Eagle in Atlanta, and it's the subject of a famous recent case of brutality by homophobic vice cops.

Also, question 1 makes me want to gnash my fucking teeth.
64
@62: This was the Eagle in Seattle. It is or was known for being pretty raunchy. I get the impression every major city has similar bar called The Eagle.

If you went to an Eagle-like place where there were women

There aren't any such bars I know of in Seattle, but parties and club nights that cater to the burning man scene are the closest thing to that. And yes, I've encountered some wonderfully assertive women in those places, although not quite the same level of intensity.
65
@ 41

Not much but it is possible to go without cheating, hard as it is to believe.
66
@seandr & shahnahnah - I don't randomly ogle/grab strange men for 2 reasons -
1) I don't always know if my attentions are welcome. He could be married and really not appreciate being put in that spot.
1.5) We women don't get to hold ourselves to different standards re: inappropriate touching/leering.
2) I have learned over time that unless you only want it to be a one-time thing, approaching men is a mistake. They inevitably respect you less for it. Stupid, but true. My dating puddle is already small enough given my standards. I don't want to knock out the remaining few!
67
CGWTK isn't cheating. However, in my case I did eventually tell my boyfriend which girl I was imagining him to be...then I left him for a lady!
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@seandr - Field trip? That's perhaps not the nicest way to phrase it - it makes it seem as if you were going to study zoo animals or something.
69
First letter, I agree with Dan. I hope the talk goes well for him. I'd get off on the idea of a man desiring my man. I think my guy is super sexy. I get incredibly aroused by the look on his *face* when I touch his cock. I love his cock because it's his, but I can't lust after his cock for the shear cock-ness of it, the way some people (mostly men) can. Strangely, the thought of a gay guy lusting after and worshipping my man's massive cock turns me on big time.

CGWTK: No, it's not cheating. Just make sure you only stay with him if you actually want him.
70
@secretagent So, women are better at remembering the existence of boundaries? I mean, women and men aren't always in a position to welcome the advances of the ogling and grabby men, but some men do this anyway (and, at the heart of this discussion is the idea that men do it much more often than women). Because I was going to mention that, too, but I'd already gone on too long...

Also, I've approached men, and the one I pursued the hardest and I dated for 6 months and then became friends with benefits because we mutually decided that we weren't a fit for dating but liked each other and liked to bang. And my hubby-to-be is so shy and passive that had I not been at least somewhat aggressive, we never would've talked. I don't know that I believe in the old trope that "approaching men is a mistake. They inevitably respect you less for it." Maybe I just got lucky? Maybe I'm just attracted to progressive shy guys?
71
I don't know if women are better at remembering the existence of boundaries. I think maybe men have this magical little man inside their brain that says, "Go on, she wants you. You're hot stuff!" or something. I don't know how else to explain the way some men seem to genuinely think they have a chance when they clearly don't. Women seem more likely to doubt themselves, even if they're supermodel hot.

Yeah, I think I'm primarily attracted to very "masculine" blue-collar men, who aren't known to the the most progressive. But I also think the rejection of sexually forward women as "girlfriend material" is built-in by our society, and maybe even our evolutionary urges, and it takes a conscious effort to override it. Something that non-shy men who have a lot of options to choose from probably have little motivation to do.
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@71 Sounds like you live in a pretty traditional (might I even say conservative) environment. Have you considered that being your authentic self can help you weed out the men that aren't the right fit? It seems like you are almost trying to be someone that you think your potential future partner might want you to be. Why not just be you? If he doesn't like that you hit on him, then it's clearly not a right fit. Keep it moving. Yet if you're trying to be coy and waiting for men to approach you, then you have to take what you get. If you want your man to be able to appreciate a sexually forward woman, then be a sexually forward woman and see who's still interested. I personally don't know many men who aren't interested in sexually forward women, and if you are such a man, let us know why.

Two thumbs up for all the other women that like to see dick. I am constantly reaching over to fondle my boyfriend's dick. When I roll over in the morning, that's typically the first thing I reach for.

"I don't know how else to explain the way some men seem to genuinely think they have a chance when they clearly don't. Women seem more likely to doubt themselves, even if they're supermodel hot."

Finally, check out some books on sexism. That's typically the reason that men have such inflated egos and women have such deflated egos. I'm not going to say it's the answer for everything, but that's typically the reason supermodel hot women feel shitty about themselves.

@Dan you either let this guy off easy or you didn't show us the full letter. Who the f*** told this guy to marry a woman that wasn't comfortable with his sexuality???? And Dan how did you jump to the conclusion that she was controlling? Because she wants monogamy and he agreed to it, but now he is changing his mind? Of course she's going to hold him to the commitment that they made TOGETHER. She didn't kidnap him. He walked into this situation willingly.
73
He's not vain, conceited or anything else negative because he wants the lustfilled look from men. While I agree that women lust after men, it's not really the same. These looks from men are craving, hungry looks that I can't begin to imagine a woman putting out. That he doesn't want to do without that seems normal to me. Men in his shoes can always visit bookstores, where men will ogle them beating off.
As for Xtube vids 'getting out'- PULEEZE! Unless you're inked, if your face is hidden, there's almost zero chance of that. I wouldn't call xtube vids cheating any more than masturbation. But it always astounds me the number of women (and men!) who get bothered by their spouses self-pleasuring.
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It was completely unfair to call his wife "insecure" and "controlling". How is she controlling him, AT ALL? There is zero evidence for that claim. As for her insecurity, you can infer that only by reading a lot into what her discontent spouse has said about her. She repeatedly assures him that she's okay with him being bisexual, but he insists that she's not comfortable with it. Well, who to believe?

And why should she have to feel comfortable thinking about her husband with other men? Or women? Some people--even many monogamous people--may enjoy thinking about their partner with someone else. But others do not enjoy it. She gets to decide what she enjoys thinking about, not him, not Dan, not anyone. That's a completely separate issue from her being accepting of her husband's bisexuality.

Think about it: what if I'm a vegetarian and my husband is not? I can respect his difference, I can even encourage him to express it, all the while being completely uncomfortable thinking about him gnawing on a T-bone. The anti-monogamy bias is showing again here.