Very sad.

What's extra sad is often times the people on the other end who are teasing them about their weight or red hair probably aren't taking it that seriously. They're just making those comments to amuse themselves (and/or their classmates.) They probably have no idea the damage that it's doing.

I'll give you an example; my middle sister is awesome and beautiful. Growing up I'd jokingly, and I thought lovingly tease her about her ears which grew before the rest of her head and stuck out a bit for a while.

Only years later did I learn she seriously considered, to the point of finding out how much it would cost, plastic surgery to "fix" her ears.

We are too repressed in this culture. When something someone says or does bothers you, speak up. They may not even be conscious of the effect they are having on you. If these girls had felt like they could do something to stop the bullying, maybe they wouldn't have felt like suicide was their only escape.

But because we tell people to internalize their feelings -- "Brush it off." "Don't let it get to you." "Ignore it." "Don't let them get a rise out of you." -- this is the consequence. What if their parents had told them growing up, when someone makes fun of you and it pisses you off, punch them in the fucking face? Sure some kids might have black eyes or bloody noses, but nobody'd be dead.

Rest In Peace, Haylee and Paige.

Is the basis for not allowing anti-bullying programs in schools that it will interfere with a Christian's right to tell students/classmates that they are "abominations in the eyes of the Lord?" Is that it?

When did teasing about red hair become a thing?

I seriously had never heard of this before that South Park episode. Maybe it just wasn't done in the particular place where I grew up.

Don't make too much out of that hockey thing. This is MN we're talking about. Everyone here plays hockey.

From the IGBP "About" page:

" Many young people face daily tormenting and bullying, leading them to feel like they have nowhere to turn. This is especially true for LGBT kids and teens... The It Gets Better Project was created to show young LGBT people the levels of happiness, potential, and positivity their lives will reach – if they can just get through their teen years."

I don't want to diminish the work that you and Terry have done with this project, Dan... It's truly commendable and I admire the effort immensely. But bullying is something that exceeds the confines of the young LGBT community, and there is no need to paint these two little girls as gay just to address the problem.

Now that you have an international audience for the project, how about broadening the scope a little?

@6 While teasing/bullying over red hair isn't as common in the U.S. (I've not really come across it myself), it's *very* common in the U.K., so there could well be pockets of it in this country too.

I don't think that Dan was necessarily implying these girls were gay. But girls playing hockey and being pretend-married of facebook probably *is* enough to stupid high school kids to mock them and call them lesbians.

I stopped wearing makeup in high school and got called a lesbian. I cut my hair short in college and it got worse. Despite the fact that I'm very, very straight in that I want to fuck and be fucked by men.

Canuck, you know they only say that out of love! Horrid, horrid people. Children should never have to contemplate suicide much less go through with it.

Dave @2 thanks for sharing the story about your sister. I've always wondered why as a society we teach kids to ignore bullying but we don't teach kids not to bully in the first place. Is it the result of bullying being so ingrained in our society? I've seen comments about It Gets Better that say "suck it up, I did" as if surviving bullying is something we just have to learn to live with. This is why It Gets Better is such a godsend. It's shining a light on the consequences of bullying. It's showing people that yes we survived it but it didn't leave us unscathed.

Too sad for words, capricorn44. And they just don't see it, how awful they are.

What 7 said. Girls' and womens' hockey is big in places where hockey is big. This isn't still the 80s, Dan.

Conservative Lifestyle Kills Children!

@6, it's an actual issue in the UK. Even Prince Harry has had some of it.

I have no idea why, red heads are freaking HOT!!!

This is just brutal. For some reason, it's so much sadder -- and shows how crushing to one's self bullying can be -- when even two girls who weren't alone couldn't help each other get over it. It reminds me of a lot of the complaints I've read about the gay storyline on Glee this season "But Kurt had friends at school who stood up for them - why did he have to leave when he was bullied?"; there's much that I have a problem with on that show, but that's one of the things that seems fairly true to life. Just because everyone doesn't fuck with you doesn't make those that do any less terrifying sometimes.

Teasing red heads has been a thing forever -- or at least it was 20 years ago. It's one of those things now that I think is great to joke about in a South Park/Catherine Tate Show way because it just shows how fucking ridiculous it is. I hated it about myself -- the red hair, the pale skin -- and was probably teased about it as much as I was about being gay (because I wasn't out or that effeminate.) Even after I came out, it was something that I had weird hang ups about. Then I met the local Falcon porn star who had a thing for red headed guys. So, yeah, it gets better.

Yup, Canuck @5, that is pretty much the size of it. As a society we should not--cannot--stand for anyone getting in the way of savin' souls for teh big guy upstairs. I mean, heck, Xtians are already opressed enough.

Ugh. I need to go punch a Xtianist in the face and tell them it's just tough love.

@10: I'd say Dan was clearly implying that they were very likely gay, note the bolded text.

I have red hair (and freckles) and never encountered any sort of anti-ginger taunting or bullying, though I have heard (as mentioned above) that it's a thing in the UK.

@8: Dan said "might", and points out that bullying is a problem for all kids (and also the recent finding of a correlation between GSAs and lower suicide rates for both gay and straight kids). He knows straight kids get bullied; the difference is that straight kids are less likely to be bullied by their parents, church, etc. and instead can get support from these. IGBP was created to give gay kids hope about the future, that they could have one and a happy one, so they don't give up on life and kill themselves (straight kids get LOTS of examples of the possibility of a happy life already). If you feel the needs of straight kids who are bullied are not being sufficiently addressed, create (or get involved in) a sister project. IGBP cannot fix the world, nor should it try, as tackling too many issues dilutes focus and reduces effectiveness.

I'm getting really sick of people saying that IGBP doesn't fix everything that's wrong with everything as though that somehow makes the project useless; I imagine Dan hears it significantly more, and I'm actually kind of surprised/impressed that he hasn't completely snapped and ripped any of these thoughtless critics to shreds.

@20 Totally agree. I think part of what makes IGBP so powerful and effective is that it is limited in scope. It does this one very specific thing to address this one very specific issue, and it does it really, really well.

I never said that limiting the scope to LGBT teens made the project useless. But since, at its heart, it is really about kids being bullied, why not just address the issue as a whole?

This is not trying to "fix the world." It's trying to ride the wave of a successful project to more success. Sheesh.

This is only a guess, but the only reason that springs immediately to mind why red hair commonly incites much more teasing in the UK than in the US is that red hair is fairly commonly associated with Ireland.

I think it's fine for the scope of IGBP to stay narrow. It addresses an important issue and specificity matters.

I have to agree, though, with those who point out that whether or not these girls were bullied based on assumptions of lesbianism is theoretical. Entirely possible, but theoretical. What we know is that one of them was bullied for being heavy. Which brings me back to IGBP not because I think its scope should widen but because I think that if someone founds a project that fights a type of particularly high-risk and fatal bullying, it's probably in pretty horrendous taste for said founder to post videos where fat children are insulted and called names and then say that it's only "almost" bullying and that the bully, of whom said founder is a big fan, makes a good point. Food for thought.

I'm a redhead (notice screen name) and I got teased quite a bit from elementary to high school. It wasn't until college that I realized how wonderful it is to have such beautiful hair. Still, even in college I got the "firecrotch" yell a couple times. It's anybody that is even slightly different. Kids are mean and spiteful sometimes. Don't even get me started on my pale skin in out too tan culture...ugh. Luckily many men love redhair, so yay for growing up.

@22

Because it is a more powerful statement to the lgbt kids that all these videos are addressed to THEM and their issues specifically, not to any bullied kid in general.

And because though certainly there are some major commonalities among types of bullying, there are also some qualitative differences. LGBT kids may face bullying (direct or indirect) from their schools, their families, their churches, and the leaders and laws of their country. That makes it different.

Personally, I was bullied for being fat. Although I wasn't ever really much of a girl, I was close enough to gender normative (at that time anyway) that I wasn't perceived as gay. And at that time and place NO ONE was out, so I think it wasn't on kids' radar as much as it maybe is today. I know bullying can come from many directions. I know. But I still think the experience of LGBT kids is different enough to warrant an outreach project directed specifically at them.

If you watch the IGBP videos you will find that many straight people (including Obama) talk about being bullied for "being different" which almost anyone at some point in their lives can relate to and THEN go on to relate that to the LGBT community. So "bullying" IS being discussed there as a general topic.

With regard to IGBP, as Dan has said many,many, many times, the scope of the project is narrow for a reason. LGBT kids are frequently bullied AND frequently they are in no position to defend themselves because the reason for the bullying would require them to come out in what could be hostile circumstances. If a kid is fat and bullied or disabled and bullied there isn't the additional burden of having to come clean about who they are. The fat kid sees other fat people. The disabled kid may very well have a support group. The LGBT kid may be totally on their own. Seeing the videos of people who survived the bullying after going through the torment of being bullied in school may be the only support these kids get. I don't see that there's a reason to broaden the scope. ALL bullied kids can benefit from the message without it being watered down.

@23 Red hair is only associated with Ireland in the US, and Irishness isn't stigmatized in Britain any more either. It's a complete myth that Irish people are more likely to have red hair than other Caucasians, from what I understand - it's one of those bizarre fictions cultures come up with.

But yeah, bullying over red hair is a serious, serious problem here in the UK. It's thought that as racism, homophobia etc. have become less socially acceptable, bullying of those with red hair (still seen as allowable) has become a sort of outlet for a lot of unpleasant people. A lot of people see it as a right or imperative to bully redheads, and it gets pretty damn nasty.

Can I really be the first to link to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVN_0qvuh…

"Rangers" have always been teased in Oz, but I never thought seriously (being one myself). Then again there were much more obvious things I could be bullied for; perhaps it was just too far down the list. And our PM is now a bloodnut, of course - though it doesn't seem to have made her any more sympathetic to minority rights.

My sympathy to the families of these poor kids. What a stupid waste.

As someone who was bullied in middle school and high school for reasons that had nothing to do with my sexuality (well, unless you count the fact that I was roundly criticized for being unattractive), I applaud the IGBP and its focus on gay teens. Broadening it to bullying for all reasons would muddy the waters and lead educators to "accidentally" forget about anti-gay bullying. I think that a campaign to end bullying towards gay kids will also decrease bullying for non-gay reasons. Really. Once educators start paying attention to anti-gay bullying, bullying in general will be on their radar, too. We ALL benefit from the IGBP. Thanks heavens you and Terry started this, Dan.

@31. I agree. There's nothing wrong with narrowing the It Gets Better Project to the LGBT teens. I also was bullied as a teen, and it wasn't to do with my sexual orientation, but let me tell you, having been bullied, and knowing how cruel and viscious teenagers can be, and having seen how horrendous homophobic bullying can be, I feel a personal victory whenever I see the anti bullying of LGBT kids cause gain more momentum. It's just like any good fight. When the most vulnerable group wins, we all win.

@29 - Good to know. We still have so much regional prejudice over here that I thought it was much the same over there. Well done if that's fizzled.

Yes to what Root and Matt said. We're talking about Minnesota, Hockey, and 2011. Pointing that out like it's a big deal is not all that different from saying they played softball or something--just reinforcing the usual stereotypes. Who cares what their relationship was? My daughter is sure she's going to live with her (female) cousin someday and I don't think it needs boldface type for emphasis.

Re: Commenters criticizing Dan for mentioning that the bullying could have had LGBT ties:

I think that Dan only brought those up because they could have led the girls' peers (even just one or two) to bully them for perceived lesbianism.

It's important to keep pointing out that LGBT bullying is some of the most prevalent and potent, and that victims of it don't have to be LGB or T - just perceived by their peers as such.

Yeah, hockey is a common sport for both sexes in states like Minnesota and Michigan. The facebook thing may, however, have led to bullying. Before I even knew what the word meant, I was called a "lesbo" because I was spending most of my time at 6th grade camp with another girl. Fortunately, the bullies didn't attend my school, so it was a one-time thing, but it taught me that even something very small or innocuous can set off bigots.

@33 Regional prejudice is alive and well in the UK, just that the Irish aren't disadvantaged by it. Really hysterical prejudice gets levelled against the Welsh, Northerners, East Anglians, the Cornish, people from the West Country, rural Scottish... I could go on.

For example, in medical school in Birmingham I was taught to assume (without evidence, and I assume this was bullshit) that genetic disorders in East Anglians were most likely the result of incest. Similarly, while not seen as fantastically polite, it is considered acceptable to openly claim the Welsh are into bestiality. We have a lot of regional stereotypes we need to stop abusing people with, but my point was just that red-haired people are subject to a completely separate set of hatreds that, as far as I can make out, defy explanation.

@8. This. Yes. Upboat

@39-42: Half past seven in the evening? Bedtime for Bonzo!

I don't know if any of you non-teens have noticed: teasing gingers has become a real "thing" again. It was supposed to be an internet meme--a joke. It's because it's so silly to make fun of people for being redheads, right?

Well, as with other internet memes and fads that are about "it's so terrible it's great," it is now taken seriously. There are reports all over where teens are bullied for red hair. I read on FML where a girl found a poster on the walls of the school (locker rooms? or wall post of facebook group for the school) that that day was "kick a ginger day." She said she was the only redhead in her small school.

Supposed to be a joke. Of course no one would be so stupid as to take this kind of thing seriously, right? Spend a couple minutes on the internet, and you will find more than a few kids who believe that redheads "have no souls." Remember--these people don't have fully developed brains. Just go to Yahoo Answers.

@44 The first time I met a few guys I'm now friends with, they put on the gingers episode of South Park. People are dicks, even the ones you make friends with, and for some reason saying really obnoxious things to readheads is okay. The internet has definitely exasperated it - especially all those bitchy Facebook groups. It doesn't bother me particularly when people yell dumb things or make dumb comments, but groups inciting murder for redheads, even jokingly? Yeah, that's upsetting.

begin bullied is very harsh I was bullied for most of my elementary years by several girls until one day i stood up too one of them i thank god for that courage because at one point i really wanted to hurt one of them i even thought about bringing a knife to school but i didnt i never thought about hurting myself ad i thank god for that. if your a parent with a child whoses being bullied follow up everyday if you have to its best talked about with that child and his her parent before it getts to much for your child to handle it. if your a parent that has a child whose actually doing the bulling please encourage tht child not to do such things and show them what happens too kids that are being bullied. as for the laws i think that if a child as reported this to the proper authority and that child ends up commiting suicide than that bullied child should be held responsible for that childs death.

Kids, parents, schools join and help to end bullying. Turn something negative into a positive to help children nationwide.

Let your community know you are doing everything you can and open to new options to help end bullying in your school by joining the Nationwide Rock It Across America Challenge to combat bullying because it takes all of us, kids, parents and educators to help make a difference.

Jump Start 2012 To End Bullying. Join nationwide campaign challenge to combat bullying.

　
　
To jump start 2012 on a positive note Rocking It For Life is proposing a Nationwide Rock It
Across America Challenge for students to commit to Rock It at least 5 minutes a day for a year
for a happier and healthier mind and body, decrease bullying while learning, having fun and getting a good workout.

Everyone can obtain their FREE 5 minute version of Rock It at
www.rockingitforlife.com.

Rock It is wonderful on many levels therefore, it is more effective than an anti-bully rally,
wearing a pink or purple T shirt for a day, posting character building posters or school children
hearing a short character lesson over the school intercom in hopes of decreasing bullying.

Great for students to do in morning to start the day on a positive note and with a positive attitude. Long version is also great for PE or rallys.

　

Together we can make a difference by joining the Nationwide Rock It Across America
Challenge to help change the culture of bullying, encourage a safe learning atmosphere for
students while kids get fit and healthy. So you think you can Rock It? Let’s Rock It!

Thank you very much. We appreciate you making a difference.
Sunnie

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