WA Leads Nation in Stupid Fucking Anti-Vaccine Hippie Child-Killers

Comments

1
If you know / meet any anti-vaccine dipshits it is your duty to smack them in the face just as you would someone who advocated holding your children under water to drive out demon spirits.
2
@1: but that TOTALLY works.
3
The word 'hippie,' like the word 'grunge,' is meaningless when it references something outside a very specific time & place.

Unfortunately, like the word 'normalcy', the misuse of these words has replaced the real definition. So now, it's pretty much: hippie = people whose opinions I detest.

Man, Mitt Romney is just a stupid fucking hippie.
4
I gather that this is something that Jenny McCarthy endorsed..
5
It's very unfair to wish ill on children, but I hope all the anti-vacc people get the other anti-vacc people's kids sick, all the anti-vacc asshole parents have to stay home to take care of their sick kids, and lose their jobs. Their holier-than-thou pseudo-science bullshit has very real consequences in other peoples' lives and I can't deal with it. My kid's not going to be allowed at houses with anti-vacc folks or un-safed guns.
6
Even if vaccines did cause autism, at the rates the bad science claimed, it would be like .01% of children would get it.

This is versus the %20 and higher fatality rates from things like measles.

They aren't just shitty parents, they are bad at logic and math as well.
7
@6 - Sad fact is that the people who are good at logic and math are least likely to become parents.
8
Vaccination is on the short list of humanity's greatest achievements, and the fact that there are dolts out there squandering this incredible gift and endangering not just their own but other kids because of some half-formed fuzzy discredited idea makes me incredibly angry. How is this not child abuse, by the way?
9
Funny, just this morning on KUOW they were interviewing a scientist about mercury levels in fish, and someone called to ask about mercury in vaccines and how it causes autism. Instead of vehemently denying the crackpot claim that vaccines cause autism, the scientist kinda just skirted around the issue. It was frustrating as hell to listen to.
10
@4 Oh yes. Oprah gave McCarthy a platform to espouse the results of her "University of Google" education...

I read Seth Mnookin's book on the issue in February, and his blog of the same name is pretty fascinating and covers the subject as well:

http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/
11
Unfortunately, they're not all hippies -- many are white, upper middle-class professionals with college degrees. And @7, many are pretty good at logic and math, just as likely to have a household member working at MS or Boeing as at the local headshop.

How people like that could continue to believe research that was not only wrong, but *intentionally* fabricated is beyond me. But then again, I don't live on Bainbridge or Phinney Ridge.
12
Worse, even vaccinated kids are at risk. Vaccines are not 100% effective at protecting any individual. An important part of "herd immunity" is keeping the vaccination rates high enough that the disease can't gain a foothold in the community in the first place.

Once vaccination rates drop below that critical mass, the disease can sustain itself in the population, putting even vaccinated people at risk. (Though not as much risk as if they were not vaccinated, of course.)
13
And of course the fact that there is no mercury in children's vaccines and hasn't been in quite a while. (except for a few flu vaccines.)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concern…
14
where's OuterCow? somebody find OuterCow!
15
@9: Sadly, this is why most academics and scientists shouldn't associate with the press. I'm guessing the scientist wasn't saying anything because s/he was afraid of saying something that wasn't 100% accurate -- and instead left an impression that was 0% accurate.

This incident also points out why it's such a tragedy that one of the few scientists with media savvy, Cliff Mass, was kicked off the air.
16
A large percentage of my coworkers are the sort who believe this utter horseshit. Many of them are also fervent believers in the wonders of homeopathic medicine (at least homeopathy doesn't kill too many people, I guess). I have learned to just ignore it -- any sort of discussion about it leads nowhere. The most common response to any scientific data that suggests their health beliefs are worthless fairy tales is "Okay, but who funds the scientists!!?!?!!?!?!"
17
Yay! I am writing a paper on this right now so thanks for the link. As a nursing student concerned with actually helping people, as opposed to uselessly belittling them, I am refuting their reasoning in order to help them make informed decisions. These are intelligent people trying to make good choices for their family and have been fed misinformation. I prefer those patients to those that don't bother to research anything.
There are many reasons that people do not vaccinate aside from that autism study and mercury.
This is one of the more interesting summaries of those reasons: http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-i…
Even though I fundamentally agree, this post does not make Goldy seem intelligent. As someone raised by hippies: fuck you too.
18
@16: Homeopathy will kill anyone with a terminal condition that takes it instead of seeking real medical help, given that it's nothing but pure water.

And it's a relief to see the other comments in this thread. I expected to see at least a couple idiots defending Jenny McCarthy's investigoogling.
19
@17,

I've got nothing against hippies in general. Just the stupid fucking Jenny-McCarthy worshiping anti-vaccine ones.

And while yes, I'm generally supportive of using reason to help people make informed decisions, an applaud you for your efforts, sometimes shame and ridicule is necessary too.
20
@8 is right - it is a huge triumph that we have the potential for populations vaccinated and protected against diseases that KILL PEOPLE. Or make them deaf or blind, or harm their hearts. Or cause them fevers that do damage to the nervous system.

People who do not vaccinate their children are too stupid to know that kids w/smallpox look like this:
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/sma…
21
I once tried to have a debate with an anti-vac mom about vaccines, but I became exhausted before she did because so much of her argument was not even wrong. Mercury is "the most dangerous element in existence." "Autism is in doctor's best interests." "We can't trust the government to supply our vaccines."
22
Anti-vaccine parents make me stabby. Thank you Goldy, for saying what I was raised too politely to say.
23
I haven't met a lot of people yet in Seattle but back in NYC (where I moved from four months ago), I was shocked at the number of highly-educated, otherwise responsible fellow parents who chose not to vaccinate (or just keep putting it off indefinitely). Most reasoned something along the lines of: "Well, I know that Andrew Wakefield was a fraud but what IF, WHAT IF, vaccines cause autism? I mean, there's so much autism today and more vaccines today, so you know--just in case . . ." Of course, the reason they feel OK about doing this is that they can rely on all of us responsible parents who do vaccinate our children. Fucking maddening.

I remember one woman who was in a group of parents that my husband and I were very friendly with, admitted to me that she hadn't gotten the MMR shot for her son--who, incidentally, my daughter saw and played with an average of twice a week. Her argument was the "just in case" one I explained above. At this point, her son was almost three (the CDC recommends MMR vaccination at 1 year). Not only was my three-year-old daughter (who was vaccinated, on schedule) exposed to him, but, at the time, also my six-month old daughter, who, of course, was at risk because she was too young to have yet been immunized.

Fucking hell, I'm getting pissed just writing about it. All this is to say, not everyone who chooses not to vaccinate is stupid or a hippie. I think a large portion of this cohort are 1) educated but willfully ignorant and 2) deeply selfish.
24
@14 lol, well Goldy nailed it, not sure what else there is to say excepty maybe for this: http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Je…
25
@16, @18 - This will make you laugh. Or possibly cry. http://youtu.be/HMGIbOGu8q0
26
@23: I would be *so* angry if someone I knew did that to my child. I hope you shunned her, at least until your daughter was old enough to be immunized, if not forever.
27
I agree.

We need to bring back shunning.
28
Maybe we'd see a trend away from this largely emotional and illogical decision parents are making if we held parents who don't vaccinate liable for the deaths of affected children. I think being faced will involuntary manslaughter charges might help others rethink this choice.
29
Adults with compromised or diminished immune systems(including cancer treatment HIV, many elderly) are also at risk from these periodic measles and whooping cough outbreaks. They may not die, but they get very sick and are in deep pain for weeks and months.
30
These people need to see what a diphtheria epidemic can do to a population of young children. Or measles. For chrissakes, POLIO. These diseases are horrible and take a particular toll on the very young. It's why people used to talk about their "first family" "second family" etc. - because the little ones so often died. It was only in my parents' generation that it started to become more or less expected that all the children would survive. Before that, mortality in infants and young children was horrifically high.
31
@27: Hasn't worked on you yet.
32
Thank you Goldy. This subject makes me so fucking angry, that I usually can't get through it without errupting into a profanity laced screaming rant. The combination of evil, exploitative hacks making a buck off this (pity there's no actual hell for Wakefield the baby killer to go to) and credulous parents willing to bet their childrens life on the idea that something they read on the internets is more credible than the words of their pediatrician and every single health organization on the planet makes me want to punch something, preferably an anti-vaxxer.
33
Why don't we simply make vaccination a non-waivable requirement for all school children? Until this year, kids in Washington were "required" to have vaccinations to attend school, but parents could opt-out just by signing a wishy-washy form stating that they objected to vaccination for "philosophical" reasons.

These requirements were tightened up by a new law that requires the parents to obtain a signature from a doctor stating that the parents had spoken with the doctor and been informed of the risks, etc. That's a good first step, but not enough.

http://www.doh.wa.gov/cfh/Immunize/schoo…
34
I can remeber going to school with kids in the '60's who were deaf and blind from prenatally contracted measles. It became something one saw only in the 3rd world. These people are going to end all that.

What's wrong with the title "Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report"? That's exactly what it is. We have Monthly M&M rounds at our hospital and so does every other medical center worth getting treated at.
35
@34, Curious biographical tidbit: at my first job out of college, one of my tasks was creating the first online version of MMWR back in 1986. So I was a regular reader for a while.
36
I was thinking this topic might out some crazies, but kudos, SLOGers.

There's a good Frontline episode on this topic. At the time it was made, Ashland, OR, had—maybe still has?—the lowest immunization rates in America.
37
I am truly amazed that not one defender of anti-vaccination has posted. The last time this was up on SLOG there were many passionate advocates for no vaccinations who posted whole (debunked) scientific articles. Progress.

@33 you are completely correct. The law should REQUIRE vaccination to attend public school. If you want to put your kids at risk, good on you, but you should have no right to access a public resource if you won't participate in the public responsibility of vaccinating your kids for everyone's benefit.
38
In the 1950s, between my brother, sister and I, we contracted measles, mumps, tonsilitis, whooping cough, pneumonia (three times for my brother).

And a case of Scarlet Fever so severe, I only remember that time through a fog, the doctor actually came to our house -- highly unusual even 50 years ago -- because none of us could leave (a quarantine notice was tacked to the front door, warning all others away.)

Luckily, the polio vaccine had been perfected, so we were spared that by innoculations given out in school (so to be sure to cover all children.) The newspapers had been full of the waves of deaths caused by polio that decade.

My father had contracted polio during the Depression, spent six months in bed recovering, but was one of the few children that year to survive that infection.

And that is the suffering the anti-vaxxers would have us return to.
39
What no news source states when it talks about the apparent steep rise in autism today is that the diagnosis of autism (or "on the autism spectrum") now includes high-functioning Asperger's people, and that lower-functioning autistics are being diagnosed correctly rather than receiving diagnoses of childhood schizophrenia or mental retardation, as they were 30 years ago. When you factor all that in, there is likely no increase in autism frequency.
40
@37,

While it isn't enough, my guess is that the increasing number of anti-vaccination assholes out there will prompt private institutions (private schools, day cares, and summer camps) to require vaccination for admission. Even thirteen years ago, my college required MMR for dorm residency.
41
@37, I think you hit the nail on the head, there was supposed evidence that was being tauted regarding the harmful effects of the composition and number of vaccines given to our children. That people became fearful, is not surprising. Now new data debunks those "studies" and prove once again the safety of these vaccines.

What I really dislike is how easily people are so mean and nasty to parents who were doing their best to understand what is the right thing to do for their children. It is a scary thought that something supposedly safe could cause developmental issues and given the information they were being given, why wouldn't any self respecting parent seek to protect?

And lets face it, it wouldn't be the first time that the medical could be wrong about something...you know like that deviant behavior known as homo-sexuality or how fantastic it is to prescribe antibiotics as much as humanly possible or what a wonderful drug thalidomide is?

It is pretty clear that the studies were bogus, and that is criminal. But a modicum of compassion is due here people. Cut these parents some slack.
42
Jenny McCarthy is an asshole and she endangers children by telling lies. Children need to be vaccinated, period. Don't be a fool and not get your child the care they need. Do it now, before they suffer needlessly!!!!
43
@41. No. I will not cut them some slack. They have an obligation to their own children and to society to educate themselves. They have an obligation to listen to the recommendations of their own pediatricians, not Jenny McCarthy and quacks like pediatrician-to-the-stars, Jay Gordon.

For years, mercury has not been present in almost all vaccines (except some flu shots, but mercury-free can be requested), including the MMR (the one most often thought as the big "risk.") As Goldy says, "there is zero non-fraudulent science to suggest" vaccines cause autism.

The time is way past cutting these people slack. They are risking the health of others, and are risking reversing one of the greatest medical achievements in history because they are willing to believe bullshit on the Internet. Fuck them.
44
@35 Neat, but why do you think it's an awful title? Surely something like "X-treme DIS-eze" or "Uh-Oh Weekly" would be worse?
45
Oh, and why, may I ask, is it not required by law that these children be vaccinated? It endangers their lives so at least make it child endangerment and threaten to have it done by force.
46
@37 I'm surprised as well! And slightly disappointed :(
47
@37 & 46 Indeed, where's my Spindles at?
48
The 6.2 statewide rate of student immunization exemptions glosses over some truly horrifying local rates. Like over 40 percent in Ferry County. http://olywa.blogspot.com/2011/06/immuni…
49
I'm a vet tech, and the whole bullshit thing has extended to pets. The thing is, those dog and cat diseases are waaay more common than the human diseases (thanks to herd immunity in humans, which these dipshits are threatening). I've seen dogs die from preventable diseases and it sucks. I'm afraid kids are soon to follow.
50
The anti-vaxers are the main reason I will never be a pediatrician. I love kids and treating them is SO much fun, but dealing with the neuroses of (especially white middle class) parents is enough for me to want to choose a different specialty. Not sure which one yet, though.
51
@41: "there was supposed evidence that was being tauted regarding the harmful effects of the composition and number of vaccines given to our children."

Yes, but that's why people shouldn't FREAK OUT because the news publishes just any quack study. Hell, they misquote decent studies all the time ( http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=11… ).
52
@49: Seeing all these "homeopathic de-wormers" in Mud Bay and similar "healthy" pet stores gets me so very angry :/
53
I will be one of the first to support the anti-vaccine clause. Frankly, I am one of those that didn't do what the government recommended. In fact, we debunked the whole stupid thing.

There has been no conclusive study on the effects of Aluminum, a large percentage of the make up of these vaccines. There are no studies that talk about the long term effects of them, either. However, the studies that have been done have shown no ill effect.

That being said, I see NO problem DELAYING the shots given to babies... one today, one in 2 weeks... it's a few extra office visits, the kid can work the drugs through the system before s/he's taxed again.

We get the kids vaccines, but use the trickle effect... which I don't have a problem with.... do you?
54
The MMWR has the best name out of any medical journal.
55
How many are giving up their cell phones this week?
56
This article and thread is part of the problem your trying to solve. When you react like this towards someone they are going to immediately tune you out. You first have to gain trust before you can change someone's opinion. Calling them stupid child-killers is itself stupid. Your only point seems to be to bash a group of people who may be mis-guided but are trying to do the best thing for their children.
I think the whole reason this has gained such a foot hold is because the government and doctors are so heavy handed about it. This approach may have worked in the past when people had some trust in government and establishment. But now days it just doesn't fly. We need a more nuanced approach to the education about this.
One simple thing that could build way more trust would be for doctors to give patients/parents the option of spreading the vaccines out as @53 suggests. People have a lot easier time going along with things if they feel like they have options.
At this point to many it feels like the government forcing something on their children. There is a natural tendency to resist it. If doctors did more explaining and followed more of an informed consent model (which they are supposed to, but do not), people would trust them more and be more willing to go along with what they are suggesting.
57
@39 Actually, epidemiological studies indicate that while what you say is true, there is still an increase in incidences of autism.

@55 There are a billion reasons not to worry about that yet, the biggest of which is that their conclusions are not warranted by the survey whose data they're using. Not to mention: "Cell phones might cause cancer" = "cell phones might not cause cancer". Not enough evidence either way.
58
@53 & 56: Regarding the "why can't we just spread out the vaccinations, where's the harm?" argument, thats bullshit. You have no sense of the number of number of germs a person is exposed to every day, but it's several orders of magnitude above the numbers in a multiple vaccination shot. To say a multiple vaccination shot is a drop in the bucket is still a laughably inadequate analogy of the number of germs a person is exposed to in a day. And the more we spread out vaccines, the longer kids go unvaccinated and the more likely they'll miss future appointments and end up with out all their vaccinations. So, there's definite costs with spreading out the vaccinations. What's the benefit? FUCKING NOTHING. There's no good science out there saying multiple vaccinations are unsafe, so you're letting your unfounded fears of vaccines drive you to support a position with no positive value. There is nothing to be gained but clearly things to be lost by spreading out vaccines unnecessarily. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccine…

@56 And to your "we should be more accommodationist " argument, NO WE FUCKING DON'T. The more wiggle room we give vaccine-ophobes, the more wiggle room they want. What will help turn this anti-vax insanity around is a culture wide understanding expressed at every level possible that vaccines are fantastic, needed, and safe, and that anti-vaxxers are moronic, uninformed murderers.
59
Thank you, Outer Cow. Spot on.
60
Seriously, once the fear of multiple vaccinations gets as widely debunked as the utterly discredited Autism link, you'll just turn to some other bullshit pseudoscience claim next. Rinse and repeat. FSM forbid you start listening to the consensus of licensed medical professionals.
61
I wonder how many anti-vaxers are also 9/11 truthers with Morgellons' disease.
62
i have two autistic children. they are vaccinated. i dont know why they are the way they are, maybe it is a combination of genetics and enviorment but it wasn't the vaccines. both of us took care of ourselves before they were born and we take good care of them now...and that means vaccinating them.
64
Thank you, outercow, for saving me some wear and tear on my fingers. The whole sudden goalpost-moving from "OMG vaccines cause autism" to "OMG there's some (vaguely defined) reason why we shouldn't trust the recommended schedule" makes me want to slap people. Many people, but Robert Fucking Sears in particular.
65
Outercrow - you make no sense... and go fuck yourself. I would rather take advice from Oprah or Glenn Beck than your nasty rude ass...

There is NO HARM spreading the shots out over the span of a couple months... you have NO evidence that this unfounded fear is baseless... Some have Monkey tissue, some have cow tissue, some have high levels of Aluminum, some are recommended that they all be taken at once (and no evidence that this is a good thing). Some have formeldeyde... you know, that stuff they fill you with when you're DEAD to preserve you? Yeah, dumbass, there's a lot of that SHIT in it... so again, go screw yourself and your high horse.

That being said, I compromise... one shot a month is more than enough... my kids aren't spreading measles, my kids aren't spreading any major infectious disease... and they are completely caught up...

So I choose to do the spread out effect... you don't like it, move to someplace where those vaccine rates are higher. In the meantime, STFU!

Respectfully,

me.
66
@65. You are silly and misguided.
67
I find it extremely frustrating that I can't think of a single consequence to wish upon the anti-vax idiot parents that would not also hurt their children, who didn't choose not to be vaccinated, or some other unfortunate person.
68
When it becomes easier to fill out the form (with the dates and varieties of vaccines that children get) than simply fill in the waiver part, then there will be a higher compliance rate. It's a total and complete bitch to do, and makes no sense to be that complicated. More multiple options on the form would help.

I know how lame this sounds, but why make a good thing so very hard to do?
69
you have NO evidence that this unfounded fear is baseless

I feel like snarking this would be redundant.
70
@61: Morgellons!! I would love to know what's up with that... do we know for sure that it's just delusional parasitosis? There are enough people who specifically report threads coming out of their skin that it makes me wonder if it might be real, and the Tulsa Police Crime Lab report that could not identify the fibers is intriguing.
71
There are enough people who specifically report threads coming out of their skin that it makes me wonder if it might be real

Replace "threads coming out of their skin" with "abducted by UFOs", and you can answer your own question, I think.
72
(I don't actually have much of an opinion about morgellons qua itself -- just pointing out that a whole bunch of people sharing a common delusion is far from uncommon. The human brain is weird.)
73
@65: "There is NO HARM spreading the shots out over the span of a couple months... you have NO evidence that this unfounded fear is baseless... Some have Monkey tissue, some have cow tissue, some have high levels of Aluminum, some are recommended that they all be taken at once (and no evidence that this is a good thing). Some have formeldeyde... you know, that stuff they fill you with when you're DEAD to preserve you? Yeah, dumbass, there's a lot of that SHIT in it... so again, go screw yourself and your high horse."

There's more bullshit in this statement than a Glenn Beck revival.
74
@70: Nice job being credulous.

http://www sciencebasedmedicine.org / index.php/parasites/
75
It's pretty ridiculous to believe Jenny McCarthy has this much influence over anyone, or that people in Washington "worship" Jenny McCarthy in greater proportion than people of any other state. Washington likes to embrace what's "natural", and yes, there are a lot of homeopathy and naturopathy nuts here.

Jenny McCarthy is a single mom who's been through some extremely traumatic experiences with her son, and she's been vocal about those experiences. People who actually choose to take her experiences as gospel about how to raise their own children -- without doing any of their own research -- are terrible parents. I don't believe Jenny McCarthy is a terrible parent or bad person.
76
@75: Jenny McCarthy is a shit of a person who encourages parents to not vaccinate her children.

Anyone who can't see otherwise is a willfully ignorant enabler.
77
@65 "There is NO HARM spreading the shots out over the span of a couple months" again, that is clearly incorrect. The harm is that spreading out vaccinations unnecessarily leaves children unvaccinated & therefore vulnerable for longer than they need be. Your essentially saying "There is NO HARM in spreading out how quickly you buckle your seatbelt once you start driving your car". If you get in an accident before you buckle your seatbelt, guess what, there WAS HARM brought about by that decision to wait for no god damn fucking good reason to buckle. And again, the more doctor visits you make something take, the more likely more people won't make all their visits, leaving more children with out all their shots, again, for entirely unnecessary reasons.

And to you're baseless concerns about the ingredients in vaccines:

"Some parents are also concerned about potential harm from aluminum, used in small amounts in some vaccines to stimulate a better immune response.

Yet babies get far more aluminum from food — including breast milk — than from vaccines.In the first six months of life, a breast-fed baby takes in 10 milligrams of aluminum; a baby given a milk-based formula takes in 30 milligrams; a soy formula-fed baby gets 120 milligrams, Offit says.

One teaspoon of Maalox liquid, an antacid, has 200 milligrams of aluminum, Gunter says.

In comparison, a baby who receives all recommended shots takes in only 4 milligrams of aluminum, Offit says.

Aluminum is also found in self-rising flour, Offit says. For most people, the biggest source of aluminum is cornbread.

And while many medications and consumer products have trace levels of chemicals, so do our bodies, Offit says. Young infants have 10 times as much formaldehyde circulating in their bodies than is found in any vaccine. Breast milk and infant formula both have more mercury than vaccines. But vaccines, like breast milk, play a vital role in keeping infants healthy.

"If you have zero tolerance for mercury, you have to move to another planet," Offit says. "We all have mercury and formaldehyde and aluminum in our bodies. Vaccines don't add to what we normally encounter every day."" -http://www.usatoday.com/yourlife/health/…

78
I have a co-worker who swears to high heaven that a very close friend of his was given autism by a vaccine. When I pressed him about the exact nature it seems more like she had an allergic reaction, some kind of autoimmune disease that would have stayed dormant if it weren't for said vaccine. What are you supposed to do when he shows you pictures of her and claims that absolutely vaccines caused this mess (I had a fun time showing him the articles about how the one and only fake study on vaccines and autism wasn't actually done scientifically). All I did was shrug him off and say it would be awesome to have more data on what happened, because if her autism was directly related to the vaccine it would be a crime against science that we're not trying to figure out more information about the case.

Which brings me to my point, can we really say these vaccines are safe (beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt 99.9% of the time)? Are we really putting the necessary resources into ensuring that every dose is the safest it could possibly be? I would hope that the majority of parents who study the issue make the decision to vaccinate even if there's chances of complications, but aren't we shooting ourselves in the foot by not providing the best possible vaccines with the best possible science? We're only adding fuel to the fire if we don't bring our A game. Every complication that could have been avoided adds stress to the situation, which we should try to avoid at all costs. Don't get me wrong, I love some ignorant hippie bashing any day of the week, but I think it would help to be a little more constructive about how we deal with them. It's ok to be scared, but they should understand how irrational it is. Who's gonna make a PSA with me?
79
If your disease-vector spawn get me sick, I am going to punch you in the face. Stupid fucking hippies/idiot breeders.
80
@41: The problem with cutting parents some slack here is they will take it as permissiveness and up their rhetoric to 11. I simply do not have compassion to waste on people who bring brand new people into the world and don't bother taking care of them. That includes getting them vaccinated, whether they do it on a special schedule or not, but if the child is eligible, they need to be vaccinated. Compassion for the kids who have to suffer their parents stupidity; yes. Compassion for idiot parents who expect the rest of the world to suffer for their mistakes? Hell fucking no.
81
@31 for the win! Brilliant.
82
@74: Thanks for that link on Morgellons and delusional parasitosis; it's just what I was looking for.
83
@82: Yeah, it does a good job. Also re: the Tulsa lab-

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.a…

"The Tulsa Police Department’s forensic laboratory director was fired Friday on allegations of “incompetence, inefficiency and gross neglect of duty,” police records show.

Mark Boese, a civilian employee, had worked for the department since October 1999, Officer Jason Willingham said.

An investigation revealed that he “failed to perform his duties as lab director and firearms examiner and a failed to properly supervise,” Willingham said.

Boese, who has been suspended since June 8, was notified of the termination Friday evening. In a personnel order from Interim Chief Chuck Jordan, he is accused of numerous violations of both city and Tulsa Police Department rules, regulations and policies. "

Apparently they were able to find a sloppy and incompetent enough department to give them the answer that they were looking for.
84
For the record, not all stoners buy into the "OMG! Vakzinez Gave My Brat Teh Autism" argument. This stoner believes vaccines should be mandatory with zero exception. Outercow FTW!
85
I work in public health, and I have a colleague that takes a 'soft' approach with parents who refuse to vaccinate. She'll launch into signs and symptoms, complete with brutal pictures of children with these vaccine-preventable diseases, so as to inform the parents of what to keep an eye out for, because the docs in the emergency room will not automatically assume the child has diptheria etc and it would be an emergent situation with diagnosis and fast response being extremely important to save the child's life... and so on and so forth, very matter of factly...

it's kind of a nice way to hit the point home, while coming at the parent from the side:)
86
Good God. Fewer than one in ten of you could successfully argue that the sky is blue. If called upon to do so, I'm imagining the conversation would go something like this:

YOU: The sky is blue and anyone who says otherwise is a stupid fucking asshole who doesn't believe in evolution and should be banned from raising children.
STUPID PERSON: Sometimes the sky's gray.
YOU: SOMEONE SHOULD TAKE YOUR CHILDREN AWAY AND PUT THEM IN FOSTER CARE SO THEY'LL BE SAFE FROM YOUR STUPIDITY! THEN WE SHOULD STERILIZE YOU SO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY MORE!
SP: Um. Okay. But something I read somewhere else said that the sky only appears blue because white light breaks up in the atmosphere and --
YOU: YOU'RE STUPID! YOU'RE AN IDIOT! YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE THUMBS! YOU'RE TOO DANGEROUS TO LIVE! STAY AWAY FROM MY CHILDREN! YOUR STUPID COOTIES ARE CATCHING!

You're right, the stupid person is wrong, and in spite of having the weight of actual truth on your side, you've still utterly failed to prove anything except that you're an obnoxious bigot who, let's be honest, probably doesn't actually understand the underlying science of the thing you're claiming any better than the stupid person. Congratulations.
87
@86: Oh yes, but the only thing worse than a belligerent prick is a sanctimonious asshole.
88
Holy hell! I understand the upset of parents who feel their kids are being endangered by anti-vacc parents. Truly. But what's up with all the comments about how "surprised" ya'll are about not hearing from the other side? Seriously? What opening could anyone possibly have to enter this "discussion"? I lost count at how many times physical violence was threatened. If you want to have an all out rage-fest, go ahead. But no reasonable person will take you seriously, or associate themselves with the toxic venom you are spouting. Even if they agree with you. Go Judah @86.
89
It should not be ANTI-VACCINATION VS. VACCINATION!!!! Some vaccinations are absolutely necessary! There are so many irrational comments from ill informed people!!! Do research!!! Hep B on the 1st dayof birth??? Why??? It's the total number within the first 2 years that's questionable! This is an important period for brain development!! Here's a link to a neurosurgeon on brain development - http://t.co/iM1hChL
90
It should not be ANTI-VACCINATION VS. VACCINATION!!!! Some vaccinations are absolutely necessary! There are so many irrational comments from ill informed people!!! Do research!!! Hep B on the 1st dayof birth??? Why??? It's the total number within the first 2 years that's questionable! This is an important period for brain development!! Here's a link to a neurosurgeon on brain development - http://t.co/iM1hChL
91
@11, What's that about Phinney Ridge?
92
@88: "I lost count at how many times physical violence was threatened."

People get angry about child abuse/endangerment on the internet, why is THAT surprising?

Judah is much more comfortable sitting back and being snotty than he is in changing anyone's mind about the matter, that's for certain. I don't see how that attitude is any less harmful, because he knows better, and apparently is able to communicate with anti-vaccination believers more politely, but chooses not to.
93
Hah.
94
@78 0.01% is safe.
95
I noticed debate on this page as to if Morgellons is real or delusional. I can tell you it's real. You can go to my channel on YouTube & see for yourself, channel: orasell1 You can start with video titled 'Morgellons, old parasite?' I can also tell you, there are people who want you to believe it is delusional.
96
look up Morgellons Glenn Rasmuusen or G Ras Morgellons and then tell me i am delusional .....suicidal absolutely but this is not all in my head, it's systemic