yo dog, guess you weren't there. the only fear mongering people there were (as you would say) the pro-move-to-city-hall-people. they used the threat of police action to push forward their proposal without allowing very much time for discussion. in the SAME meeting another proposal was made to reject the offer and NOT deal with the mayor at all. that proposal passed.

great journalism, bozo, showing up late and getting your facts wrong. hope you win your own genius award next year.

I hope you get some sleep too, Paul. Thank you for covering this so well.

just got back from the best night's sleep yet at OS. When I got there(11pm) the drama was over, safety and legal people kept announcing that police vans have been seen nearby, but most of us had already had a night of chicken little squawking under our belt and ignored them.

As I work swing shift, I have never attended a GA and don't know what goes on there. In fact the majority of people I know at OS really have little involvement in that particular experiment in direct democracy. The people who like to make decisions, print manifestos, declarations of independence are welcome to it, but it doesn't translate into the momentum of the occupation.

The struggle for the leadership of OS is well underway, watch for "leadership" to emerge, get co-opted, and die the death of a thousand committee meetings. Watch for other street generals to be formed, get infiltrated and busted by various law enforcement entities. I've been following the chat room debates at indymedia, and a careful process of leaderless strategy is being formed. I anticipate a revolving door of charismatic personalities to take responsibility for events beyond their control, nothing could be further from the truth.

aaaaaaaaaand scene.

FWIW, I don't know about last night, but on previous nights (and during the weekend) that van has been parked in front of Vons.

@7, you've killed me.

"The important thing is that they're still there. Nothing else matters."

Why? No, seriously, how does a hundred or so people sleeping in Westlake do much of anything at all?

This is why we continually fail and the teabaggers, despite having little public support, have shifted the debate. The rallies were only step one, where for us they seem the whole point. They are out there taking control of local orgs and parties. They are getting people to the polls, holding classes, harassing electeds, and on and on while the left obsesses over whether it is best to sleep at Westlake or City hall with the usual endless debate and process that results in nothing more than making people feel good for doing nothing.

A waste of fucking time and energy.

Beyond the anger and egos, what many here fail to see is that the movement is already irrelevant, just look at the meager number of participants in what is thought to be one of the most progressive cities in the country. Civil disobedience and arrests in such small numbers is a waste and guarantees that this would barely register a tiny blip on the social scene of this city ... NOTHING would change. The only thing that is going to make this movement relevant is growth, locally, and especially, in solidarity with a national movement. When you can fill every square foot of that plaza, that's the time to take it. Until then, consider the move to City Hall a smart strategy.

@12 You mean like when millions marched against the Iraq war and stopped that? Or how demonstrations against the WTO have brought about fair trade over free trade? How about when the RNC protests prevented the reelection of Bush?

We don't need more of the same shit that hasn't worked in decades.

Lots of hay is being made out of this logistical situation (not a bad thing in a democratic movement). However, the entire (as in nationwide) Occupy Wall Street movement won't become irrelevant due to the debate over where to camp in Seattle. This is a nationwide movement going on in many cities. As for the people who want to camp out at City Hall, they aren't sellouts. They are still forgoing a warm bed at night in cold, rainy Seattle. As for the people who want to stay at Westlake Park, all the more power to you for your uncompromising act of civil disobedience. After all, the corporationists and tea baggers won't compromise on anything, and civil disobedience makes the Eric Cantors of the world uncomfortable (Eric Cantor is very uncomfortable with this movement). The movement will continue on strongly in this city and others once the camping debate is resolved (or maybe not resolved). The debate over where to camp is a mere speed bump that will be overcome. We need not let it divide us too much, so that the 1% can continue to divide and conquer the 99%.

One of the challenges with OS as I see it is that many people who would support the cause have jobs, families, and other obligations which make it nigh impossible to spend several hours a day hanging at Westlake. I understand that the point is to be ever-present and in-your-face, but 24/7 is too much to ask of everyone, especially when the cause itself is nebulous and difficult to identify or articulate.

The Occupy movement really needs a bona fide mission statement with actionable goals and some kind of long-reaching strategy. A leader, or core group of leaders, would help, too.

I think there is way too much emphasis on whether folks are able to sleep at Westlake in the local "movement" and not enough on the relevant issues -- and trying to bring in the rest of the community. As shown today, other people would support this cause if only it 1) didn't reject people who don't want to sleep on the ground in a park and 2) had well publicized events with a clear message. The point is to change the political situation, not fight over a piece of concrete. Moving to City Hall Square would allow folks to focus on this instead of just fighting with the police.