Over 50 Cops Clear Westlake Occupation, Make Eight Arrests


arrest Goldy while you are at it!
Any banking CEOs arrested today?
I wonder if fines will have to be paid to get the tents back. I also wonder how many of those fines will be more than the tent is worth.
@3 Tents rights!
It's interesting to me the continuous criticism of Occupy Seattle by slog/stranger readers/commenters.

I know it's fine and dandy to poke fun at stuff, and I know Seattle has had its issues (we are a mess, not just with OS, and this includes y'all), and I know the internet makes you smart, and the stranger fuels sarcasm of course..

..but if you have any interest or ideas on how things should be done better, and you think you could be interested in the movement "except for these things...", I would like to encourage YOU to go out to the site(s), talk to people, participate, throw in some ideas, debate, get some thoughts flowing, affect things, make some bad choices in hindsight that then get poked at in the Stranger :), etc

Anyway, good morning.
Zimbo, well-said and thank you. I cannot join the protest but I thank you and all the others for what you are doing.
It's only going to get rebuilt, & bigger. Every time the state over-reacts more people become aware of what is happening in this country. The world is watching.

No. Ya know why? They didn't break the law.

Maybe banks do need tighter regulation, but they were in the vast majority of cases operating within regulatory bounds with Credit Default Swaps and other artificially securitized instruments and faulty mortgage practices and so on.

No, they shouldn't have been bailed out. But oddly the wacky left seems to have forgotten that rather than partner with their senile Uncle Sam the vast majority of banks already have paid back bailout money. Many of them took it intitially under federal duress anyway.

Argue for tighter lending standards, or the elimination of FDIC insurance for investment banking or other regulatory fixes. But lying about whether these folks comitted crimes when the protestors were arrested for obviously criminal behavior is just idiotic.

Let it watch.

First, we don't run the United States for Asia or Africa or Europe, so I could give a damn what they think. When Greece and Italy are in financial trouble for their stupid socialist policies, criticising how we do business seems dicey at best, quite frankly.

Second, Key Arena would make an excellent holding facility for all the criminals downtown illegally blocking public access to public spaces. Arresting the whole lot of them has numerous benefits. The National Guard and police would get invaluable practice in urban disorder suppression. Fines would fill city coffers. And downtown wouldn't be filled with dirty hippy trash. And their tents.

Win win for all decent Americans, and the scum downtown would be treated as the criminal trash they are.
Um, Seattleblues, why the name calling? You call these Americans, who are exercising their right to peaceably assemble to petition the gov't for a redress of grievances, names such as "criminals", "scum", "hippie trash" and "criminal trash". You seem to have no objection to rounding these patriotic Americans up and depriving them of their rights. What's next in your dream playbook? Another Auschwitz to get rid of 'em for good?

In other news, your assertion that the majority of banks have paid back bailout money is misleading. The majority of banks have settled up, but you don't mention that less than HALF of the bailout money has been paid back:

Oh, and what about the criminal lead-up to TWO unnecessary wars that helped turn Clinton's surplus into huge debt, all while padding the pockets of the military industrial complex? Why are thousands of reputable scientists, engineers, and architects calling for a re-investigation of the events of 9/11 to determine whether it was an inside job? (even if it wasn't an inside job, the response to intel and events unfolding that day could be described as criminally negligent). Why was Saudi Arabia given a free pass when most of the 9/11 hijackers Saudi nationals? Also, did you have any problem when Reagan gave weapons to the Mujahideen that would eventually be used to kill and maim our own men and women? You rip Greece and Italy for their "stupid socialist policies" and probably don't even have the sense to see our very own military and police as "socialist" in nature.

I'm tired of my tax dollars being squandered on military and police policy I don't agree with, and yet I have nearly NO choice but to pay up, lest I be put in prison. I'd call that kind of coercion "socialist" for certain. So what it comes down to is what flavor of socialism you and I each favor.

And, no matter how much you may want to lump everyone into simple categories, every single "occupy" protester has their own individual reasons for being there. If you actually get past your apparent prejudice and pay attention, you might even agree with some of them.

In the meantime, Ad-hominem attacks such as name-calling do nothing to bolster your position (especially when you show such blatant disregard for our great nation's sacred Bill of Rights) in fact, such attacks reveal how little actual substance you have to argue with.
Well said, Clint. Thank you. I hope you are one of us, but if not, please join us for dinner and GA some night!

Did parroting your neoliberal memes give you something to do while sucking down the stewed prunes this morning? I've heard that hours can get away from you if you really give yourself over to that stuff -- not so much to chew on on, but they do get your day moving, and you wanted to share that with us? Well, okay. And I've obliged you by hearing your tired old right wing crap aimed at us over the rim of your bowl. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to survive it and still have energy and smiles to see me through the rest of my day. I've got to go see if I can find my busted up and missing dirty hippy trash tent that was yanked out from under me this morning at Westlake Plaza Occupy Seattle.

No, I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. We live in such different universes that I am not willing to venture much of a response to your attacks -- so my little ad hominem in kind will have to suffice. But your pinched and harsh tone does touch me make me wonder if the prunes are enough.

Point by point out of respect for your position, if not agreement with it-

First, you're right. The name calling is out of line. Most of the folks downtown are scared kids of whatever chronological age. They worry about their jobs or finding one. They worry about their mortgage and who owns it this month or whether the clause they foolishly overlooked allowing the bank to up their interest rate will be invoked making it too expensive. They worry about whether that home turned out to be all that good an investment decision, given that they now owe more than they could sell it for. And they've found a target for all this anxiety and fear, rational or not.

But they are kids. Adults realize that finding work, paying your mortgage, putting food on your table or paying the kids medical bills are their responsibility. Not the governments, or their fellow taxpayers or their employers- theirs.

And adults don't camp in public places illegally, block streets illegally, make life difficult for those trying to meet the personal responsibilities the protestors are unwilling to meet.

Speaking of which, your right to peacably assemble has been defined by the Supreme Court. It isn't absolute. You must, for instance, pull a permit to stage a demonstration. You must abide by the laws as amended by that permit (as- you may block streets, but only for a limited time and so on.) This allows other citizens their right to conduct business downtown, or do their shopping or just be free from the noise and smell of people camping in public parks.

Second, the banks are ahead of schedule in paying back their federal obligations. The details can be twisted to whatever ideological agenda desired, but that basic fact remains.

Third, for all the manifest and obvious crimes comitted by Bush and Cheney I seem to have missed the raft of American and international indictments against them. Could this be because they didn't, you know, comitt any crimes?

Same goes for the bankers, BP and all the other scapegoats the left has for their problems.

Finally, you are in some ways right about socialism. We do divide the burden for local and national security among the 53% or so of citizens who actually pay taxes. But we do this in accord with our Constitution. Elastic Clause notwithstanding, no federal obligation to provide food, housing, medical care, job training and so on to citizens exists federally. So yes, we may each favor a different type of socialism. But mine has the blessing of the Constitution.

@ Seattleblues: Firstly, I want to thank you for your polite point-by-point reply. While I'd love to have you fully agree with me, I'll at least be satisfied that you have a clear understanding of my points of view.

With regard to "crimes" of the protesters, I guess it's a matter of degree. For example: With the exception of occasional traffic blockage, I am not aware of any folks being flat-out denied access to businesses or residences in the area of the protest. It's possible that some may avoid businesses for fear of mingling with the protesters, but that is their choice.

If the protesters have broken any laws, from what I have seen, their infractions appear to be quite minor in scale when compared with what many of them are protesting. Take the woman arrested by dozens of police officers today for the "crime" of sitting in a public park with an umbrella. Menace to society? I think not.

On the other end of the criminal spectrum, we're talking about business "leaders", the military-industrial complex, and the Fed bilking hard-working taxpayers out of trillions of dollars.

And, in case you need a raft of indictments against the Bush/Cheney cabal, please allow me to point you, as a starter, to articles of impeachment against the Bush administration, as set forth in 2008 by Congressman Dennis Kucinich:


Neither you, nor I, truly know if Bush & Cheney committed any crimes. The fact remains that, despite massive public outrage, there has been no formal and impartial investigation. Most of the well-capitalized media outlets simply ignore the issue, because that would be akin to biting the hand that feeds them.

You may be satisfied to take these leaders at their word and assume their innocence. I, on the other hand, see far too much evidence and obvious cover-up attempts pointing to deliberate criminal acts. I *still* want to see an impartial investigation, but I think the stakes are far too high for any kind of impartiality.

So, in the absence of such an investigation, you and I are left with our beliefs, which are highly influenced by our information sources. One of my sources is the delta between what politocos say one moment on video and what they say after they believe the public has long forgotten the first thing they said. I call it "Tivo". Myself, and others, have caught many a politico in bald-faced lies. With such precedent, I believe that further investigation is well warranted.

A "53%-er" who stands firmly with the 99%.