Slog May 30, 2012 7:32 AM

O They Will Know We Are Christians...

by Dan Savage

Comments

1
That poor kid. It's always amazing to me the things that don't count as child abuse.
NateMan on May 30, 2012 at 7:47 AM · Report this
2
So “they” ban/cover magazines with Elton John’s picture because they don’t want to explain to their kids why two men might be holding a baby, but “they” have no problem with a four-year-old knowing and using the word ‘homo’? In church? WTFiswrongwithpeople.
Allyn on May 30, 2012 at 7:54 AM · Report this
3
I'm sure the next song was all about niggers and spics. Praise Jesus!
shaneleopard on May 30, 2012 at 8:06 AM · Report this
4
I was a 4 year old church ham myself, getting in front of the Southern Baptist mega-congregation, reciting bible verses and busting out in "Amazing Grace."

Now I suck cock all the livelong day. Praise Jesus!
pfffter on May 30, 2012 at 8:14 AM · Report this
5
I can't make myself click the button to watch that. I just can't.
Reverse Polarity on May 30, 2012 at 8:18 AM · Report this
6
Someone please tell me that the world has changed since Germany of the '30's ! (Seems that it hasn't changed much)!
on May 30, 2012 at 8:39 AM · Report this
7
That is just gross. Disgusting people.
sher-bear on May 30, 2012 at 8:46 AM · Report this
8
This is why indoctrinating children into fundamentalist religions should be considered child abuse. One day when this kid is a teenager and his parents come home to find him hanging from the ceiling fan in the family room they are going wonder what could have made him do such a thing, and they will never look in the mirror and see.
Fortunate on May 30, 2012 at 8:47 AM · Report this
9
@8 but that's what makes fundamentalism so attractive. Never ever having to look in the mirror and see.
pfffter on May 30, 2012 at 8:53 AM · Report this
10
I just feel so sorry for this little kid. I hope he has other relatives or grows up to make friends that can show him what real love is.
Torchy Blane on May 30, 2012 at 8:53 AM · Report this
11
Sad.

I thought you were refering to that pastor from Kansas,
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/29/…

Or

The pastor from Maryland.
http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/201…

Sick, sick and evil acting people.
kim in portland on May 30, 2012 at 8:54 AM · Report this
12
@1, 8--That's going to be a consequence of equality, when it comes. Replace "homos" with 'niggers' and tell me that CPS wouldn't descend on a family that put their four year old out in such a manner. Even down here in the warmer climes.

Frankly, I'm a little squicky about that.

But only a little. If the price we have to pay for equality is Nanny Government whittling that sliver out of our constitutionally protected right to freely manage our children's constitutionally protected right to free-range assholery, I say pay the motherfucker and pay it forward.
The Max on May 30, 2012 at 9:01 AM · Report this
13
The name "Apostolic Truth Tabernacle" gives this group away as a wacky group of Pentacostal holy-rollers. Their worship services are all about getting worked up into a frenzy, blabbering away in tongues, rolling on the floor, and/or foaming at the mouth with hatred. Literally. This is just a wedding, and they're practically catcalling.
Not sure I'd call this a conservative or fundamentalist group. They're a group of a schizos, acting calm & reserved in public, but batshit crazy behind closed doors.

The kid is just getting part of his initiation into the world of performing religion for thrills.
Sir Vic on May 30, 2012 at 9:17 AM · Report this
14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJhRYYjHT…

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
Rob in Baltimore on May 30, 2012 at 9:29 AM · Report this
15
NOPE.
Knat on May 30, 2012 at 9:36 AM · Report this
16
I just don't understand it. And it sickens me.
nocutename on May 30, 2012 at 9:39 AM · Report this
17
@16--I understand exactly why any loving parent would want to indoctrinate their kid with the values They hold dear. I understand exactly why the They hate the gays so much (Because: The Bible!). What sickens me is that so many of them eat shrimp. And have tats. And wear cotton with wool.
The Max on May 30, 2012 at 10:04 AM · Report this
18
..snakes..i also feel for the snakes..i mean, they have nothing but these people to feed on. can't be good for em. won't somebody consider the snakes ?
reverend dr dj riz on May 30, 2012 at 10:07 AM · Report this
19
Well, that's actually a true statement. There's a long list of people who won't be in heaven because HEAVEN IS JUST PRETEND.
pox on May 30, 2012 at 10:32 AM · Report this
20
I actually think it's their Easter celebration, not a wedding. (Their facebook page has a photo of all the congregation's kids at Easter this year.) (Not that it matters very much)
GogoNola on May 30, 2012 at 10:35 AM · Report this
21
This has gone viral. Someday this kid will grow up and realize that he was "that singing kid in the homophobic church". I hope that he is furious, at his parents and pastor.
Alanmt on May 30, 2012 at 10:47 AM · Report this
22
Dear Lord, help me forgive the hate-filled, and keep me from being one of them. "Ain't gonna be no haters in heaven"
BrotherBob on May 30, 2012 at 11:59 AM · Report this
23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHKzn8aHy…
Sketch on May 30, 2012 at 12:20 PM · Report this
24
I just can't conceive of why anyone would want a four year old to sing something like this. It's so sick and so sad.

And yeah, what if that kid is gay? And what of any gay kid in that church?

What are these people thinking?
BEG on May 30, 2012 at 1:23 PM · Report this
25
If you want to let them know what you think of this, you can contact Jeff Sangl, pastor of the church. Phone: (765) 525-9488. (317) 979-8684
on May 30, 2012 at 1:33 PM · Report this
26
Dan, your article brings back memories of another place called "_____ Truth Tabernacle". I was forced to go there by my Pentecostal foster parents while in CPS custody. They sang happy songs about homos being in hell during an Easter service, during their celebration of Christ's rebirth. When a young gay friend of one of my foster parents' relatives killed himself, a young cousin of both asked what my foster father thought; in response, he posted a litany of Bible verses in a Facebook note writing of homosexuals being in hell. After a child, his own 15 year-old nephew had killed himself, in response to his 10 year-old niece asking him for explanations.

So, Dan, I know you probably were writing this blog entry in the belief that nobody would ever cheer at a child's suicide, but if this Tabernacle (the "house of God" in the Old Testament) is anything like the one I was forced to attend... you might want to rethink that thought. There is something dark and hideous running through large strains of the Christian community, and this is something I say as a deeply religious person.
The Eternal Noob on May 30, 2012 at 1:34 PM · Report this
27
Heartbreaking.
Pablo Picasso on May 30, 2012 at 2:10 PM · Report this
28
"Jesus wept".
AlaskanbutnotSeanParnell on May 30, 2012 at 2:48 PM · Report this
29
I thought Jesus said it would be nigh-impossible for a RICH man to make it into Heaven.
venomlash on May 30, 2012 at 2:56 PM · Report this
30
Will Brian Brown defend the religious freedom of this recent spate of uber-sick pastors?
Pondover on May 30, 2012 at 3:08 PM · Report this
31
So THAT's what a "shithole mega-church" looks like. I expected something a bit more impressive.
on May 30, 2012 at 3:13 PM · Report this
32
All I can say is, Jesus Fucking Christ. Well, they're obviously miserable, as happy people don't demonize others. Hatred comes from within.
scratchmaster joe on May 30, 2012 at 4:46 PM · Report this
33
Dan,

I came out of this movement. This isn't just a run of the mill evangelical church. This is a church that subjugates its women. They are not permitted to cut their hair, wear anything but a skirt past their knees, no jewelry, they are not allowed to go to movie theaters, they can't play sports, and some can't even wear wedding rings. Not only do they speak in tongues they practice "tongues and interpretation", which is when, they believe, God first speaks through someone in 'tongues' and an interpretation is given to someone after it. In addition they run circles, jump around and convulse like lunatics. They believe in One God (i.e, not the trinity) and believe their small sect of Pentecostalism are the only ones going to heaven.
This church is in the same organization (UPCI - United Pentecostal Church International) that the camp in the church camp scene from Borat was affiliated with.
They do nothing but hurt and marginalize people. They drive wedges in families, extort money from followers and have no accountability.
Of all Christian Denom's they are by far the worst. Their words and actions are abhorrent, and they believe that they are merely being true to God and that THEY are the ones being persecuted when things like this come back to bite them.

I say all that to say this isn't just a typical fundamentalist occurrence. These people are literally brainwashed and insane. They need help, whether they realize it or not. They are being held captive by heresy.

Hopefully this story is the catalyst of the implosion of their movement.
Eddy on May 30, 2012 at 5:23 PM · Report this
34
@ 33 Eddy, you have these cretins down to a "T".

I work in a business that takes care of event production needs for schools, concert promoters, corporate presentations and houses of worship. One apostolic, pentacostal group has our firm take care of their annual "camp meeting" (held inside a convention center). The second year we did this event I had to call my boss and say "get someone else down here NOW. I'm about to grab a microphone and preach my own sermon." He didn't get it until I quoted the preacher, who was going off about men with hair that touched their collar or had facial hair, wore short-sleeved shirts; women who cut their hair or had hemlines above the ankle. As the only man (out of 2000) wearing a polo shirt with a full beard and hair that just came past the top of the collar, I'm not sure how I was expected to not take this personally. I can put up with a lot of shit at work (we do events for rethuglicans), but never, never had I felt personally attacked while providing a contracted service. Not in 30 years of doing this kind of work... never. Boss convinced me to stay until the end of the meeting and another employee would take over the next day.

I'll finish with this observation - at the conclusion of the service there was the obligatory altar call and music (the best part of the whole gig was the band). On woman was very into the music, eyes closed, hands up-stretched. I could hear a man calling out, he was at the back of the hall with a couple of kids; it was her husband. A man in the same row of seats figured out she was being summoned and tapped her on the shoulder to get her attention. She recoiled as if threatened with a torch. I mean recoiled as in assuming a defensive but subservient posture of hands in front of her face while looking down at the floor, as if she expected to be hit.

These people are sick. They have been brainwashed, and they worship an angry, hateful and vengeful god. Normally I'd pity such people but they revel in this. Eddy, your observations are spot on.
on May 30, 2012 at 6:51 PM · Report this
35
Its to bad that the church is getting death threats. That doesnt help anything except adding fuel to their anti-gay fire.

I wrote a letter to them but put no threats in it because that will only give them te ability to day "see gays are evil, threatening us for only following gods word"

DO NOT THREATEN THEM!!!
mykoolaid58 on May 30, 2012 at 7:40 PM · Report this
36
I doubt the "We got death threats" thing . . . These people don't lie?

I hope "You have sown the wind" isn't perceived as a threat. The whirlwind they reap will be peaceful (if spirited) protest, and loss of membership of course.
Sifu on May 30, 2012 at 8:37 PM · Report this
37
If you happen to have unregistered comments hidden, 33 and 34 are worth reading for some context about the denomination to which this church belongs.
Joe Glibmoron on May 30, 2012 at 9:04 PM · Report this
38
God help us all. Especially the children; the most vulnerable ones.
arachne646 on May 30, 2012 at 9:36 PM · Report this
39
Franklymydear (34)- Very disheartening but unsurprising mostly. Except for the hair thing, do they think jesus had a buzz-cut? I feel sorry for them living with the fear of eternal punishment for acts defined by some preacher or book to be immoral. Maybe it's a jab at conservative Muslim men who wear long hair and beards.?

I never bother with these preacher condemning homos videos so I didn't watch this one either but it's depressing nonetheless. What do people have to gain by being so hateful?
arachnar on May 30, 2012 at 11:01 PM · Report this
40
I watched this three times, trying to convince myself it was all some elaborate over dubbed hoax, but no.... Just awful. Too horrible for mere words.
on May 31, 2012 at 12:29 AM · Report this
41
@36 I think they'd be entirely capable of lying, but--unfortunately--I think it's totally plausible that they got dead threats. I'd be more surprised if they hadn't, really?

Remember the Rebecca Black debacle last year? A 13-year-old girls recorded an--admittedly awful--vanity music video. She got death threats.

The Dog Rescue that wouldn't let Ellen DeGeneres adopt a dog? Got death threats.

In the age of the internet, there are just a lot of idiots out there who think they can be powerful and impressive by sending anonymous death threats to people they disagree with. I don't doubt for a second that some people sent them to this hateful, bigoted, disgusting church. And while they may deserve it more than most, seeing how they cast the first stone, I agree with @35 that that's only going to make them feel even more righteous and justified.
Sketch on May 31, 2012 at 3:46 AM · Report this
42
A pastor's open apology to homosexuals---http://matthewstevens.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/an-pastors-open-apology-to-homosexuals/
PreachermanMatt on May 31, 2012 at 4:20 AM · Report this
43
I can tell you this was not a Wedding or an Easter service. This was just a regular church service. Props to the little boy standing up for what's right, and props to the awesome parents teaching their kids the truth! Go little buddy!
The kid is right. on May 31, 2012 at 6:12 AM · Report this
44
Dan Savage knows in his heart of hearts that only black people can be homophobic, don't forget it was the blacks who defeated prop 8 in California, and they are now fighting to defeat marriage equality in Maryland...Obama is only pretending to like gays and Colin Powell looks like a tanned white man, so his gay love doesn't count. As for Ben Jealous, let's just say the NAACP obviously are blind, because that man is white and obviously like all white people everywhere, is enlightened and therefore a gay lover. Anyone who is upset by this just isn't clued into the fact that only black Americans can be gay haters, get a clue people!!! This little boy is obviously white, so is the whole congregation and therefore it is genetically impossible for them to hate gays...
kayla on May 31, 2012 at 6:24 AM · Report this
45
As Dan Savage well knows it's a genetic impossibility for a white person to be racist. All white people are enlightened and progressive gay lovers...If only white people voted on gay marriage amendments they would pass everytime. Even in Maine where more than 98 percent of the population is white, the anti-gay amendment only passed because the six black people who live in that state made it their business to stand in line and vote...This little boy, nor any of the cheering members of that congregation cannot be gay haters because they are all obviously white, duh people!!
kayla on May 31, 2012 at 6:31 AM · Report this
46
...and that's why it's okay for Dan Savage to bully people he doesn't like.
on May 31, 2012 at 7:10 AM · Report this
47
It's like the socially acceptable version of the Klu Klux Klan all over again. A fifteen year old had just killed himself in that town after experiencing horrible bullying for being perceived as being gay. And this was their response. Socially acceptable bullying resulting in more suicides? How is this hate not the Klu Klux Klan all over again? Oh this makes me sick to be a human. BULLYING ISN'T OK. HATE ISN'T OK. WORDS KILL. Children are like sponges, they absorb all this hate, and are told to kill themselves by their peers. Peers who are raised by bullies to bully. Peers who are bullied by parents. We humans are all mentally ill. It is called Bullying. It is a severe addiction to power, and taking your stress and pain out on others. Bullying is not ok. It hurts those who are bullied and those who bully. It breaks down lines of communication. And power that is taken in simple bullying can escalate to greater acts of bullying and power taking later in life. Bullying hurts us all. Bullying can lead to hate crimes, which separate children from their parents. Bullies can go to jail, and those who are bullied are often found dead (by their own hand or by others in hate crimes). Bullying hurts us all, because it too often separates child from parent. Please, please rethink the words that you say. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. A common lesson taught to some children, that should be taught to all humans.
rana0x0 on May 31, 2012 at 8:47 AM · Report this
48
Tax Religion.
on May 31, 2012 at 10:17 AM · Report this
49
This is disgusting, and I must add that I consider this church is misusing the label "Christian". Why do I say that? Because, although the poor kid in the video may not be old enough to understand this, the adults should know that he is MISquoting the Bible. Badly.

The basic message of the Bible is that we are all sinners. And that sinners CAN go to Heaven. So singling out any group is wrong, saying a sinner can't go to heaven is wrong... They have taken a few remarks utterly out of context and in the process utterly trampled on the overarching truth of the Bible.

The fact no one there seems to understand this just demonstrates that they have no idea what the Bible actually says, they just pull out a few lines they like to use to beat other people up with and shut their eyes to the rest. Which I find annoying, for many reasons. They ought to sit down, shut up, and actually read the book they're going on about before they open their mouths again. The ONLY people Jesus ever attacked were the RELIGIOUS folks who twisted the truth. He hung out with sinners, even tax collectors (some of the most corrupt, ruthless people in the Roman world). He chewed out people JUST LIKE THIS.
on May 31, 2012 at 10:48 AM · Report this
50
Thes so-called Christians make me sick. I hope that 4 year old kid turns out gay. That would be poetic justice. I'm glad you're not the only person bashing these people. http://www.ryanmcbain.com/flowcheck/?p=1…
The Real Truth on May 31, 2012 at 11:43 AM · Report this
51
@50 I hope he doesn't. Because if he is gay, and in that environment, and with that family, odds are high he'll end up another teen suicide. :(
Sketch on May 31, 2012 at 12:38 PM · Report this
52
#43, You are so right. This is just a regular service. I dont know who shot the video,But I say God bless him! People dont know this is happening all over in churches. Im so glad it has finally been exposed. Thank You. And people dont blame this little boy, he is so excited because he feels he has done something great, because of all the praise these people are giving him. The adults are to blame in this whole situation. You never know when that camera is on! Also why is the church on lock down? If they feel they are right, why hide?
on May 31, 2012 at 1:05 PM · Report this
53
READ WHOLE THING.......Clear and simple whether right or wrong of the actions they have done the retaliation is no better! How can you protest against this and say we have freedom of doing whatever we want to do but in return you want to take away everyone elses freedom around you. I don't agree with homosexual lifestyle but I do believe they can be saved just like everyone else. We all whether layers, cheaters, etc must obey the bible but bible also says " return evil with good" so by protesting your not making anything better but reminding us if how selfish you are because all you care about is how the homosexuals feel and there rights but don't forget your not the only people out there and believ it or not good chance there are a lot of people that don't hate you but just get tired of you crying over everything. I don't believe a lot of people in different lifestyles all over the world will make it to heaven due to sin but they are not all protesting no because they choose the way they want to live. Just because someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle doesn't mean they hate you as a person. I don't agree with drinking but have plenty of friends that drink, I definitely don't agree with homosexuality but have friends that are and also some that came out of that lifestyle.
WHETHER YOUR ANTI-GAY OR ANTI-CHRISTIAN OR WHATEVER WE ALL HAVE THE FREEDOM OF CHOICEAND YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT IS NO BETTER THAN OURS SO GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON. YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME BECAUSE OUR WORLD IS A MESS AND WILL ONLY GET WORSE.
Nunya business 1989 on May 31, 2012 at 1:08 PM · Report this
54
#44 + #45
What the hell are you talking about? Dan Savage has never been harder on black homophobia than on white homophobia. He's against homophobia(and all other forms of bigotry)no matter who expresses them.

What the hell did Dan ever do to you?

Oh, and #46, who did Dan ever bully? It wasn't bullying to come up with the "santorum" thing...that was payback TO a bully.
AlaskanbutnotSeanParnell on May 31, 2012 at 7:18 PM · Report this
55
#6 Human beings probably haven't significantly evolved in two or three hundred thousand years. Our society on the whole is much more pleasant than that time and place, but there are pockets of hate in even the best cultures, just as there are pockets if goodness in even the worst.

I do see human society generally improving over the last several centuries, but unfortunately there is always the chance of society reverting back. We got a taste of that in the '30s and '40s.

I do have confidence that, given enough time, we will win, but I worry about how much time we've got left. These "reversions" could be capable of ending our current civilization, plus there's the Sword of Damacles that is climate change.

Still, we must have hope. We will not survive without it.
AT777T on May 31, 2012 at 9:05 PM · Report this
56
@36, "I doubt the "We got death threats" thing . . . These people don't lie?"

Apparently they not only do, but did:

"“To my knowledge, there are no death threats at this time,” Decatur County Sheriff Gregory Allen told FoxNews.com. He was responding to a report on TMZ.com that Jeff Sangl, pastor of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church in Greensburg, Ind., had received death threats after the video hit the Internet Wednesday. Allen told FoxNews.com that Sangl, who has left town and could not be reached for comment, contacted the department and asked him to keep an eye on the church's property following the surfacing of the video."

So according to the Sheriff there have been no death threats and Sangl lied about that.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/31/ind…
Fortunate on June 1, 2012 at 8:48 AM · Report this
57
Teaching children to hate [x] before they can even understand [x] is one of the worst forms of mental abuse of children that I can fathom.
brendan on June 2, 2012 at 7:18 PM · Report this