On Booze, Meth, Suicide... and GOProud

Comments

1
Dayum, Dano, BIG HIGH FIVE! HUGE, actually!
2
I remember this argument (it's so terrible to be gay, they should just be straight) being used on me as a teenager. It was as preposterous then as it is now.

It's a good reminder than, while liberals are far from perfect, conservatives are stuck in adolescent thinking. (eg. our local romney supporter).

Dan, keep up the good work, you wonderful faggot, you.
3
his last name is Hissey? i'll let everyone else make the jokes.
4
the internalized homophobia is strong with that one. GOProud gives him and self-hating, self-loathing, square, white, middle-class fags exactly what they want: a little outlet and a lot of rules to follow. They get a sanitized little shamefest, keep some privilege, and get a stern warning to stay away from some imagined slippery slope into Big Scary Gay Culture.
5
ZING!

And that quote from Johann Hart is all kinds of awesome. Stealing, now.
6
*Stands up*

*Applauds*

*Wipes tear from eye and hopes no-one notices*
7
That's what conservatives do on every issue. They're like kids who break a toy, then complain that the toy doesn't work anymore.
8
...Or maybe they're just idiots.
9
Well said Dan. You have quite the way with words. Such a good role model for me and many others. I was mucked up until the age of 41. What contributed to this & I take full responsibilty is lack of acceptance. People giving me shite for my sexuality did not help at all. It actually resulted in a great deal of mental unease & wanting to be dead. It's take a while to wake up. It get's better. And it already is. Thanks for calling out these guys for what they are.
10
Ibid! As one who suffered under the reign of the RomneyBot in Massachusetts, I can attest to how much the RomneyBot lies, flip-flops, and actively works against LGBT people. The 'man' who campaigned against Ted Kennedy, as the 'best friend' of the Gay community, once in office, showed his true colors, and worked feverishly right up to his leaving office, to thwart Marriage Equality, funding for GLSEN, for GLBT youth - anything he could do to destroy us. To the bozos on the GOProud bus, drop the Mitt Pipe, and get into rehab before November. And don't speak to me, if you see me on the street.
11
Dan, I'm proud to live on the same planet as you. Seriously.
12
My understanding is that the majority of gays on the GOP proud voted against the endorsement. But the straight members of the board voted for it.

Yes, that's right. GOP-proud has straight "minders". Because gay people are just a little too silly to know how to vote in their own interests.

Imagine the outrage if the NAACP had white people appointed to the board, who voted against the majority of black members on a given announcement.
13
Daaamn. Shitstorm incoming, tracking it on DRADIS.
14
Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I read somewhere that of the 8 people on the GOProud board, 3 of them are straight? And it was the 3 straight dudes along with only 2 gay dudes who made the majority decision to support Romney? So a majority of the faggots actually voted AGAINST endorsing Romney. WTF? Why are straight dudes on the board of a gay political group in the first place?
15
Gay people abuse drugs, alcohol, and tobacco at higher rates than straight people do.


These are all maladaptive coping mechanisms which have both genetic and environmental causes. The key environmental cause would be the discrimination and hate that is constantly being thrown around. This is a pity because people who are genetically prone to using these coping mechanisms are often great artists and thinkers when they haven't experienced significant psychological trauma.

As far as the tobacco abuse, perhaps this is a lesson. 50% of cigarettes smoked in the US are smoked by the mentally ill (google it). The other 50% are probably smoked by people who are on the spectrum but don't meet the threshold. Cigarettes aren't a luxury item, they are maladaptive coping mechanisms. Taxing the shit out of cigarettes and doing everything possible to ostracize smokers while at the same time cutting back on mental health programs will only help alienate a very vulnerable population. It is not surprising that LGBT persons smoke more than normal. I assure you, they aren't doing it to be cool.
16
@14 you read it on here.

"Why are straight dudes on the board of a gay political group in the first place?"

I know, right? It's to keep them focussed on the "GOP" rather than the "Proud"?

Maybe Gay Douche for Romney can come and explain it to us.
17
Im not a GOPer, I am straight, and I volunteered 8+ hours for the libertarian Party yesterday in Seattle Center because I dont like discriminating against anyone, I dont know what the whole personal feud is about etc. But I dont belive in overly sterotyping left vs right. It was a Democrat who enacted DOMA, yet the handful of snarky Obamaists who shrugged at simply getting a third choice on the ballot in November for 'stealing votes" ( which as I understand is each persons right to choose, and if you dont belive in that then who cares about minortiy rights of any kind, whatever is popular wins ), when Governor Johnson went on a GOP debate infavor of marriage equality (always has been) and has never needed to 'evolve' on the issue or the discrimnatory drug war itself. I say that because, there were overwhelimgly GREAT Obama supporters who also supported us and thankful for their support whether or not they choose or candidate in november, which is why I dont understand why one would support such a base as the GOP if they are for a more limited government and . Being said, I dont think that liberals are inheriently better than GOP. I vote for all parties depending on the race. I jsut dont think Republicans=Bad Dems=Good. We have two party sytem duoplicy, and it only makes ense that one has to choose which side, I think both parties could use reforming and huge doses of inttelctual honesty (At least the GOP is changing towards liberties across the board with Ron Paul and his supporters) and I think that makes thrid parties even more relvant and important. To each their own , I just urge people to think outside the box, I get that this is spefic but I dont think conservative gays in general are bad thing at all. Even though it wasnt my things music wise and I am stragiht, I had a nice time and always appreciate humorous not overly serious LGBT people as always. I got signatures to promote something I believe in, super polite people in converstation exchanging opinions, and people who were laid back with a sense of humor.
18
let us help you there danno....

"The haters have it backwards.

"It's not that the gay "lifestyle" is inherently dangerous and unhealthy.

"It's that homosexuality is just one more destructive behavior that people bent on self destruction indulge in."

see how that works?....
19
I'm going to go out and form a group that fights descrimination against all short women, but the only people allowed on the board will be very tall men. That should work out perfectly.
20
@17:
It was a Democrat who enacted DOMA,

What choice did Clinton have? The Republicans might have had the power to send a Constitutional amendment to the States (which the President can do nothing about). And while Constitutional amendments are tough to pass, this was still 1996. In 2012, more than 3/4 of States ban same-sex marriage. It probably would have passed and Clinton and many Democrats would have lost their seats.

It may seem surprising today, but the amount of homophobia around 16 years ago was profound. DOMA was a shitty compromise, but it probably saved same-sex marriage in the US for generations. How long from now do you think that it would take for 2/3s of both Houses of Congress and 3/4 of the States to agree that same-sex marriage should be legal?
21
Gay folk are messed up at a higher rate than Hetero-folk? Well my my, what does that say about the messed up Hetero-folk? Maybe they should not live the messed up Hetero-life style and THEY would be happier.

Nice post Mr Savage, we all know this to be the truth, it's nice to have someone with a platform to state it publicly.
22
I guess there's not a lot of work that needs to be done at GOProud if its leaders have time to get into a pissing match with Dan.
23
"Pinkwashing." Nice.

Homophobia isn't logical, just like racism isn't logical. Booker T. Washington thought that if blacks acted respectable and got their kids educated then whites would see that they were responsible enough to vote and just give them their rights. It's a huge compliment for which American Caucasians of the early twentieth century turned out to be unworthy.

So yes, toss that study out there, show people that being gay isn't what's making people unhealthy. You might prevent a few people in the middle from being brainwashed, but some people react to appeals to emotion and others don't react at all.

Attitudes like this don't go away. The people who hold them grow old and die.
24
Romney's positions are shitty, but he does not oppose adoption by gay couples:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/…
25
Gotta love the way Barron first tries blend in with conservatives, then with gay folk. Sorta like the way anti-gay fundamentalists bellyache that calling them a bunch of knuckle dragging bigots is just hating on Christians.
26
Cigarettes aren't a luxury item, they are maladaptive coping mechanisms.

Yeah...tobacco is another thing I'd have added to the list. Use it myself from time to time and always, always, it is a stress coping mechanism. When Lambda Rising was still in business here in Baltimore it was located next to the Gay Community Center. Every now and then when I walked in the bookstore I'd walk past a group of gay teens standing outside the GCC...it must have been on one of their youth group meeting times...and most of the kids would be puffing away...a little cloud of tobacco smoke around the group. I really hated seeing that...you just knew why those kids were smoking.
27
Dudes just jealous that no one in America knows who he is or cares.
28
@7 I see this kind of thinking all the time at my work. The person is stupid and then jumps up and down shouting that our machine is broken. It's not broken. You're not reading the screen before pressing the buttons. Who let you out of elementary school?
29
Andrew Sullivan was caught advertising for bareback sex couple years ago on some site while he wrote condescending opinion pieces blasting other gays' promiscuity.
30
This comment:
"They create misery, and then use it as a pretext to create even more misery."

Completely describes the abuser in any abusive relationship, be it a partner, a parent, a sibling, a pastor/priest/reverend, coach, or other "authority" in the "relationship".

Their abuse makes you crazy, then they tell you they need to abuse you more, because they need to "cure" your craziness.

One thing I learned from an emotionally-abusive ex, is that you have to realize your mind is owned by another, before you can act to take back that ownership. The words "free your mind" should be on billboards and bumper stickers all over the place.

Peace all!
31
The behavior of GOProud is ridiculous. Not only do they support the people who trample gay rights, but then they claim it is the left harming gay rights and the right helping them.

It would be as if I, a really adamant atheist, were to support people like Santorum. Or a gay person supporting Santorum. Or a woman supporting someone like Santorum. Or a bla.. person...
32
What the fuck is your problem with gay bathhouses?
33
@23: the sooner the better.
34
Hissey's a smarmy little asshole. Cute, though. The word hatefuck comes to mind.
35
I was at the founding meeting of the national gay conservative organization before the March on Washington in 1987....I had been a registered Republican....but I was coming out. About 45 minutes to an hour of being in that meeting I walked out. There was nothing there I could believe in...and no Republican is ever going to get my vote as long as I live. Now, I'm a registered Independent. In the state where I live democrats are no better....so that's why I'm this political middle of the road person. I don't understand why any gay person would want to endorse Romney after the last four years and the things that have occurred. DADT repealed...DOMA destroyed by federal courts...etc. It's time to take the last road through this wilderness of hate and Stand Proud....not GoProud on your knees hoping someone will notice we're begging.
36
I love you Dan, but I can't agree with this one bit. First of all, if someone from another side of politics called me a 'faggot' I'd be incensed, regardless of their own self-perception. It's still an insult to most of us, and for entirely obvious reasons.

Secondly, if we don't start getting representation amongst the GOP, we're doomed. There are two parties in this country, for better or for worse, and tying our wagon to the tail of one of them is a recipe for disaster. We need to go mainstream, we're not going to do that by saying shit like this. Could I join/vote/stand the GOP? No. But that's a lot more to do with the fact Austrian economics is idiotic than anything else. Do I support what GOProud is trying to do? You bet your ass I do.
37
@36: LGBT can get representation in the GOP without selling themselves out. They can support candidates who espouse their Republican values but reject homophobia.

The Republicans are losing young people all the time. They lost my boyfriend to homophobia and misogyny; when the main issues of the right seem to be hating queers (me) and trying to take away birth control (my rights), how can they expect to keep the people of my generation who espouse small government and low taxes? GOProud should be focusing its efforts in primaries in which there's a candidate who doesn't hate them. They should be focusing on local elections in which they can support Republicans who will support them. I don't think they need to support Republicans who necessarily support gay marriage to be non-self-hating, but they at least shouldn't support someone who wants to take their rights away.
38
You make it sound like gay people are the only one's with self destrucrive behavior. Straight people have plenty of bad behavior but theirs strikes out at children. Alcohol, drugs, anger, reckless sex all destroy the lives of children. And for that reason it is far worse. Far, far worse.
39
I can say at 51..almost 52..I agree with Dan 100% .....Im TIRED if Waiting for My RIGHTS, that Heteros Get and TAKE for GRANTED.....I'd like to be young enough to enjoy my RIGHTS,and I hope I see them ALL in my lifetime. The GoProud idiots are,and I'll say it again - Like Jews for Hitler. They're the ones who help put the bodies in the ovens (all the while saying, it wont happen to me)
Are there ALOT of Important Issues..You bet..but for me - MY no#1 issue is MY RIGHTS as a TAX PAYING GAY American Citizen, 1st and foremost! OBAMA 2012!
40
It's truly sad that Chris Barron considers himself so unworthy of happiness that he must attach himself to the political party that is determined to bring about his personal destruction...That takes a special kind of masochism...
41
Sadly, you're just wasting your time. You can't reason with people that don't use reason. Their entire ideology is: money=highest priority, my own civil rights=who gives a shit, I've got my money.
42
#7,

They're actually more like a kid who breaks a toy, blame their sister for breaking the toy, and then tells mom and dad that, because said sister can't be trusted with toys, they should be put in charge of all future toys.
43
And you want to know the really funny thing? Chris Barron actually voted against endorsing Romney when the decision came before the GOProud board. So on a certain level, you know he probably agrees with you, even though he's enough of a partisan hack that he needs to misrepresent your argument.
44
@20
I agree that constantly blaming Clinton for DOMA (and for DADT) is a gross misrepresentation of the situation, implying as it does that it was all his idea and that if he hadn't somehow championed it, all those wonderfully tolerant Republicans would never had dreamed of doing such a thing.

But he did have a choice. He didn't, it's true, have the choice of whether or not it would go into law, because of the huge bipartisan support it had. But he could have vetoed it and forced them to go on the record as overriding his veto, or he could have simply refused to sign, and let it lapse into law without his involvement at all.

It would have essentially been purely symbolic in effect. But sometimes symbols are important. No, Clinton isn't to blame for the law, but his hands weren't completely clean of it either.
45
#38: I said gay people are self-destructive at higher rates. Implicit: straight people engage in the same behaviors... at lower rates.
46
I don't understand the uproar. Are there really more than a couple dozen of these self loathing jack asses? It ahppens, but not in numbers that actually mean anything. There are black republicans, latino republicans, women republicans... all groups who are targets of GOP policy.
47
I've always thought that guys like this are basically well-to-do fags who are willing to screw over their fellow fags for tax breaks. The two kinds of conservatives I've known are rich douchebags who don't give a shit about anything else in life except making and keeping more money, and lower income dupes who hate everybody except for Jesus and people who look and act just like themselves, and who buy the line of shit the right wing feeds them. I'd bet cash that most of GOProud is of the former persuasion. They're basically a bunch of sellouts.
48
Dan,

You believe that the word "faggot" is socially acceptable, because there's nothing wrong with being a member of the group it describes; presumably, you also think that the words "nigger" and "kyke" are also acceptable, for the same reason. The thing is: not everyone agrees. Most members of minority groups find it insulting and demeaning to be referred to using slurs. We consider them insults, because they are insults, and they insult not just us, but the group we belong to as well. The implication, when using a slur, is that being a part of the group being slurred is inherently demeaning. That is what slurs, to the vast majority of people, mean. And you can't expect everyone to know your personal definitions for them.

Now, you may use the word "faggot" casually to refer to yourself and friends, including your readers, and that's fine. It's fine because:
a) It's safe. Friends know what you mean, and they know you aren't hostile to them.
b) It's consensual. A friend can ask you not to call them that, and expect some consideration from you, even if you don't agree with them.
c) It's not an insult. As such, it does not reinforce the notion that being a part of the group described is inherently demeaning.

Your tweet, however, was an insult. It was meant to attack GOProud - who, by all means, are worthy of attack, but... That changes the meaning of the word. It's not safe and friendly, it is an insult, and as such, to everyone who isn't intimately familiar with your personal definitions, it does reinforce the notion that being a faggot is wrong.
49
Every time the subject of GOProud comes to mind, all I can think of is the monologue in Angels In America that Roy Cohn (via Al Pacino) gives to his doctor Henry about how the label "homosexual" reflects more on a persons clout and status than it does who they sleep with. To him, that label meant being a nobody, and thus he couldn't possibly be one. I really think that fits GOProud well. At every turn they downplay their own identity and bash those whom they believe fit "negative stereotypes" (Remember Hissey basically outright saying he didn't like gays? I do). At every turn they accuse "the left" of playing identity politics that they see as for the "weak". It would seem every one of their actions indicate a sense of complete discomfort if not outright revulsion for LGBT culture as most of us actual LGBT activists understand it.
50
Um, Andrew Sullivan is a self-hating gay.

Or have you forgotten his little tirade over HIV+ people having bareback sex while he himself was soliciting bareback sex with his poz ass?

The man had a dripping hardon for Bush II, if you recall. If it's methy for GOProud to do it, why isn't it so for Sully?
51
Chris Barron and the GOProud types are NOT self-hating. I really think that is a mistake to see them that way. Just like Mary Cheney, these types are actually extremely egotistical, narcissistic, and incredibly selfish. They look down on other lgbt people, not themselves. They think they are above everyone and that's why they have no problem supporting anti-gay candidates. They are definitely toxic people, but not "self-loathing".
52
can we just ignore them please, dan you of all people should know what happens when you give these idiots your undivided attention....exactly what they want...more exposure...more mind share...they are a waste of oxygen and you are giving it to them....pull the plug...i love what you do for, and have done for us, and it hurts me seeing you do such counter productive actions...let them suffocate
53
So what is Chris Barron's job, anyway? Is he the official tweeter for GOProud? If not, it seems like he should be doing something besides responding to Dan's tweets.
54
Dan, you cannot say that you acknowledge gay conservatives and then condemn them for voting for the conservative political party and their candidates.

You can spin Obama all you want but he is not conservative on any of the major issues. I will not vote for president based on a gay litmus test issue. The office is too important and the problems this country faces are too daunting.

Romney all the way....
55
@54 You know, you don't have to be a Democrat in order not to be a Republican. If you don't like Obama then don't vote for him, but that doesn't mean you have to vote for Romney.

The fact that you would vote for a candidate who has pledged to actively work against your own interests shows that you seem to think that you'll be exempt from their machinations. That you're one of the "good" gays that the Republicans won't go after.

But you know what a Republican calls his gay "friends" when push comes to shove?

"Faggot."

If they were "good" Republicans, they wouldn't be Republicans.
56
You rock, Dan Savage!
57
Dan Savage, keep on telling the outrageous truth and don't let anyone tone you down or succeed in having you couch your words so they don't offend. Our enemies, a lot of our friends and even some in our community don't like hearing the truth, which is why we need you shouting it out loud and clear.

As far as gay Republicans are concerned, be they the Log Cabin type or GOProud variety, I think they should be pariahs who are publically identified in every city and town and totally shunned by every member of our community socially and in business dealings, right down to being turned away at gay-owned stores and restaurants.

Michael Romanello
58
Excellent Work Savage! Once again creating perfect context telling it like it is. Try as I might to find a patient friendly approach to understanding GoProud (or any gay GOP Member) reasoning .. a hopeless quest within my mind. Voting for someone who may be of this party - occasionally, the likes of Kenny Quinn do show up on a ballot.
59
Please explain to me how Obama has been pushing personal responsibility?

I live in Chicago, which is the epicenter of government dependence. Specifically, the government is the largest employer, we have the highest rate of corruption and the worst finances in the country.

Your ingrate comment is not only pithey and childish, it's simply wrong.

You, Dan Savage, are too bias and too delusional for your own good.