"Hello, 9-1-1? There's an old man beating a child on my TV"

- Bill Mahr

*Maher

WHAM-WHAM-WHAM-WHAM-WHAM!

Biden: "Puny Congressman."

Uncle Joe kicked about as much ass as Obama got kicked.

Can we just skip to the skullfucking?

FINISH HIM!

Actually, if Obama is reelected, I would prefer if Biden and Obama switched places.

Wish in one hand and shit in the other, @7...

But it's good that you're coming to grips with the likely outcome, and why not? You'll do well under Obama/Biden whether you're rich or poor, gay or straight, astroturfer or honest laborer.

@9: That sentiment comes from the gut feeling that Joe Biden (overall, not just from this debate) really enjoys politics and fine minutia it involves. Obama enjoys the power, trappings, and the ideological manifestations of what he wants to achieve, but not the joy of the deep grit of daily politics and reaching across the aisle.

@8: I appreciate your comment. I think you point out the fundamental difference between a conservative and a liberal. I don't look to the government to validate me as a gay person. And, even though governments throughout world history have oppressed minorities to various degrees, our rights, as Ryan points out (in earlier speeches) comes from nature (or God if you prefer) not from the laws of humans. What is worse than not having the rights afforded to us by the government is acquiescing to politicians and ideologies that we don’t inherently respect or agree with just so that those bureaucrats can give us the rights we are begging for.

@12

weird. I thought you were gunning for Romney because he'll cut everyone off "welfare" and that'll kick off a race/class war or some stupid shit. I thought you were going the noble route and saying you weren't going to fire the first shot. now you're saying you and you D&D buddies are set to topple the government, huh? that's just weird, man.

* you and your* sorry

@10: Perhaps you would not think that rights spring magically from nature or god if you were black and lived in Selma, Alabama in the 1940s, or if you were a gay dude in Al Amarah.

Rights do not come from nature. There are no rights in nature, other than the right of the powerful, which we do not want to model our society after.

Rights do not come from god. If this was true, everyone would have equal rights the world over. Also, you have to prove there is a god before you can use this argument.

Rights come from the people's will to protect and enshrine them into law. Full stop.

Neither god nor nature is stopping you from being lynched because you are gay. It is the will of the people around you who stand for your right to live.