Blogs Nov 30, 2012 at 9:42 am

Comments

1
Welcome to how I bike on Eastlake and Fairview. I spend about 20% of the time on the sidewalk (slowly) because it's a fucking death trap on the street for cyclists.
2
The data support you. We will not see a critical mass of cyclists until we see infrastructure that allows people to ride their bikes with minimal stress, and that means safe, separate facilities.

30 years of vehicular cycling has resulted in conflict, death, and the continued supremacy of the single-occupancy vehicle, with tragic results. No more.
3
RIDE IN THE FUCKING STREET.

People who ride their bike on the sidewalk deserve to be killed. If you're on the sidewalk, WALK YOUR BIKE.

If I'm walking on a sidewalk and you ride by on your bike, I'm going to kick your fucking wheel out from under you. I'll be doing you a favor, too, because I'll be keeping your from running down some old granny, who has infinitely more right to be on the sidewalk than you. Cyclists on sidewalks are terrorists.

RIDE IN THE FUCKING STREET.

If you're afraid of the doors, take the lane. IT'S YOUR LANE.

I ride in the street every day. Yes, cars are annoying. But if you're going to wait for separate facilities, you're going to wait forever. It's never going to happen. There isn't room for a separate facility for three percent of the vehicles, and you will destroy our cities if you try. I don't give a shit what they do in Copenhagen. WE DON'T LIVE IN COPENHAGEN.

RIDE IN THE FUCKING STREET.
4
Heh, while I'm not quite as virulent as Fnarf, I have to say that if you're riding on the sidewalk, please show some respect for the people actually using it for walking (it is called a sideWALK BTW) and not just mow them down because you're on a bike.

I can't tell you how many times I've been told to get out of the way by people on bikes on the sidewalk.

We really do need a better bicycle infrastructure, but until then, share the sidewalk too.
5
I agree with Fnarf. You can't have it both ways.

My wife was just hit by a cyclist coming round a corner at high speeds a few weeks ago. Fucking asshole had the nerve to tell her to fuck off as he rode on his merry douche bag way while she was sprawled on the sidewalk.

It's war now.
6
You're much more likely to get in a collision riding on the sidewalk than in the street, even without a bike lane.

Scroll down to the section "Injury Rate per Mile" at http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health…

Riding on the sidewalk really isn't the safer option.
7
Fnarf - DUM AS Fuck.
8
I''l take my chances with Fnarf kicking my tires out from under me. Should be easier to handle than a dump truck. Or even 3 tons of Prius.
9
I'll chime in: you are more likely to get hit by a car if you ride on the the sidewalk.

As long as you take care whie riding in the intersections -- that's where most bike/car collisions occur. Note that while riding on the sidewalk, you still have to cross potentially dangerous intersection.
10
Fuck cyclists that ride on the sidewalk. I've nearly been killed by so many of them. I should start intentionally making bikers crash when they ride on the sidewalk. Makes me fucking furious.
11
Unless you're riding at 3 mph, riding on the sidewalk is way more dangerous that riding in the street. Wear a helmet and bright clothes, and take a lane as needed.
12
Heeey, Fnarf did me better. I was just enraged by Dan Savage's suggestion that people ride on sidewalks. Fuck that. Fuck sidewalk-riding. I'm going to make it a point of trying to get into a fist-fight with the next cyclist I see riding on the sidewalk.
13
All the bad asses come crawling out of the woodwork.
I ride my bike down the sidewalk on westlake every day. 8:30 am and 4:30 pm. Lets see whats what.
14
so why did Danny's letter get pulled yesterday?

is his bad boy transphobic hate not cute anymore?
15
Weaving in and out between sidewalks and streets is a major dick move. It's akin to the asshole on the freeway who lane changes every two seconds to weave around traffic at 90 mph. STOP DOING IT.
16
I've been riding my bike in the street since I was 10. I've had run in with cars (often my fault). Of course, safety is a design issue. We need cities that work for bikes. But in the meantime, dont ride your bike on the sidewalk. No self-respecting cyclist does that. Remember-- bikes are in the middle of the hierarchy, just below pedestrians in terms of rights. So give them space. Otherwise, you're being weak.
17
Have to agree with Fnarf.

I've been tempted to clothesline cyclists who use the sidewalk when they have a perfectly good road.
18
Sidewalk riding might feel safer, but it's not: Drivers are not expecting anybody faster than a jogger when they pull out of driveways or take right turns on red. If you absolutely must ride on the sidewalk, go slowly--especially around driveways--and always yield to pedestrians.
19
@ Dan and chinaski -- If you are too timid to use the street leave your bike at home and walk or bus. A few yards of sidewalk riding to avoid a hazard in the road you can't avoid otherwise, or to get to a bike rack etc. is reasonable. More than that and you've crossed the line. I know it's legal but it's a dickwad move.
20
Sidewalk riding, I do it sometimes. Going uphill on the southern tip of Lake City way, for example. No shoulder, barely any pedestrians, traffic at 40mph... It doesn't just feel safer, it is safer.

The accident rates are higher for sidewalk riders because of driveways and intersections. In both cases, drivers will no be looking for someone going bicycle speed. So don't go fast on the sidewalk, it's safer for you (and the pedestrians to whom the sidewalk belongs).

@fnarf- You're a petty asshole. Hope you don't kill anyone during one of your drives back to the 'burbs after hitting the bars on Seattle.

@4- WALK TO THE RIGHT SIDE. I say this as someone who walks fast and also as someone who rides a bike on the sidewalk sometimes. If people are telling you to get out of the way often, it's probably because you are acting like you have a right to the whole fucking sidewalk. You don't. Now they should be saying "excuse me" in a polite tone, but them being in the wrong doesn't put you in the right.

21
@6 cites a good source about why it's more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk than in the street. The pertinent paragraph is below. Dan, you clearly are not a cyclist. Advocate away for dedicated lanes, but are endangering readers who might actually listen to you when you state that it is safer to ride on the sidewalk.

"People wonder how riding bikes on sidewalks can be dangerous. First, there is a greater chance of minor collisions with cyclists and pedestrians due to poorer visibility and restricted room and also a greater chance of falling down. However, the likelihood of a collision with a motor vehicle also increases. These accidents occur at intersections and driveways, the former more deadly. Unwilling to dismount and often unwilling to wait for the light, the bike rider starts across the intersection parallel to the main road, completely hidden from a turning motorist until the last second, when it's often too late for the motorist to stop. A study of these risks was made in 1994 and showed that sidewalk cycling is almost twice as dangerous as cycling in the street, and cycling against the traffic on the sidewalk is over four times as dangerous as cycling in the street."
22
@1 except oddly, the only actual cyclist death on Eastlake/Fairview came from someone riding on the sidewalk and down a flight of stairs.
23
agree with Fnarf - TAKE YOUR PLACE in the street. That's how it works
24
uh oh, fnarf and will in seattle want to kick my ass. Sidewalk is a last resort, seldom & scrupulously used, and I've had bad experiences as a pedestrian as well. That said, riding on the sidewalk is LEGAL here. At least WIS and Fnarf have something to bond around. Alternate transportation doth make for strange bedfellows
25
It depends on the road. If it's a narrow street with no bike lane and a cyclist is huffing and puffing but it's not safe to drive around and traffic is starting to back up -- all the while there's perfectly good unused sidewalk! In those cases the cyclist should use the sidewalk so the rest of us are freed from that frustrating and dangerous situation.
26
Agree with Fnarf: if you're on the sideWALK, walk your bike. I'm sick of douchbag cyclists nearly mowing me down. In fact, I've started to throw them off their bikes-- better that than getting hit. It's actually pretty easy once you get the hang of it. (Hint: I'm planted and my center of gravity is much lower.)

Shit, maybe I should have classes teaching pedestrians how to do it. I suspect that if cyclists faced the same dangers on the sidewalk that they're imposing on pedestrians, they might reconsider their actions.
27
I ride all over the city and avoid sidewalks AND arterials. More often than not there is a quiet, less-trafficed street one or two blocks over. Usually the street has cars parked on both sides, so ride in the center to avoid being doored. My experience is that drivers can see you better, they drive slower, and there's lots more interesting things to look at. Leave the busy roads to cars. Sure it may take a bit longer but at least you arrive safely.
28
Bicycling in Paris is a dream not just because of the occasional dedicated bike lane or the fact that there are bus lanes that cyclists and taxis can use, but because with streets hugely crowded with cars, trucks, scooters and motorcycles weaving everywhere, PARIS DRIVERS AND RIDERS PAY ATTENTION TO EVERYTHING. Transport on those streets is a collaborative effort, head and shoulders above anything I've ever experienced.

We in Seattle can't can't can't afford to pay for the concrete walls that could protect cyclists from our shitty, sloppy distracted drivers. Even if we could - and again, we can't - it wouldn't solve the problem of shitty driving.

I never hesitate to hop on a bike in Paris. I wouldn't ride in Seattle for love nor money.
29
golly girls,
you'd think Danny had advocated something criminally irresponsible like condomless anal sex for kids the way you are all reacting....
30
There will never be separated, dedicated bike lanes in Seattle, so stop talking about it. There isn't enough bike traffic to warrant them, and there sure as hell isn't enough room.
31
The illusion of safety fostered by ineffective bike lanes and sharrows creates more danger than not having them. No doubt about that. If you are riding a bicycle on the street, you are at risk. Never forget it and ride cautiously.

Riding cautiously will reduce, but not eliminate your risk.

Riding on the sidewalk brings new hazards and, as has been mentioned, doesn't reduce your exposure at intersections, which are particularly dangerous. In particular, I think that coming into an intersection at bicycle speed from the sidewalk may present more danger from turning vehicles than the street. These folks are looking in the street before making their turn and if they look at the sidewalk at all, they are not looking for something moving at bicycle speed. They won't look far enough back to see you coming.

On the whole, the sidewalk strikes me as more dangerous than the street - even when there's no bike lane.

Ride cautiously. Follow the law. Choose safer streets when available. Do not expect any protection from paint. Presume you are invisible. A lot of the time the safest thing to do is to take the lane.

What will motivate the city to build safe bicycle infrastruture? Probably nothing - never gonna happen. But they will be more motivated by motorists who complain that cyclists are taking the lane than they will be motivated by dead or injured cyclists.
32
Vehicular cycling nuts have killed thousands of people since they started influencing policy (causing no bike infrastructure) in the 70's. It's clearly outdated and dangerous, and they don't care, as evidenced by the roid rage and death threats in this thread.

Separated bike lanes are very clearly the answer. We won't "wait forever" for them - they've already started to appear in Seattle, Portland, Chicago, LA, NYC, all over the world. Sydney installed a handful and immediately bike ridership went up 82%. Now it's installing 55km of them.

They're dirt cheap and enhance cities. Saying they "destroy" them is absolutely ridiculous. The only "negative" to them, besides the minimal cost, is that they take a few feet of space from cars and can eliminate center turn lanes or a few street parking spots. Putting them in dense neighborhoods in Seattle, where already only about a third of people drive to work, is a no-brainer.
33
Cyclists have a tendency to treat pedestrians the same way drivers treat cyclists.

My suggestion- sell the fucking EMP for scrap metal and use the money to build dedicated bike lanes.

34
@30: chicken and egg
35
@20, you're wrong. A sidewalk is not a roadway; it is part of the room of the public street. It is perfectly acceptable to stand in the middle of it and admire the scenery, or read a newspaper, or walk into or out of a shop, or bend down and tie your shoe, or bend down and pick up a shiny penny, or load groceries into the back seat of your car, or chat with a friend you just bumped into, or whatever-the-fuck-else you want to do.

It is certainly not a pair of smoothly-moving lanes of robotic pedestrian movers, marching perfectly in step. If a pedestrian doing ANYTHING AT ALL is in your way? You are in the wrong. You are in their territory.

Walk on the right my ass. Get off my fucking sidewalk.

As for your feeble insults, I can assure you that I live in the city limits and commute by bicycle every day, rain or shine, and I never, ever, ever drive (or cycle) drunk. That doesn't make me an angel, it just makes me a citizen. You should try it.
36
Wow, apparently everyone, including Fnarf has their issue where they go all Stand Your Ground Road Rage Crazy.

"If I'm walking on a sidewalk and you ride by on your bike, I'm going to kick your fucking wheel out from under you. I'll be doing you a favor, too, because I'll be keeping your from running down some old granny, who has infinitely more right to be on the sidewalk than you. Cyclists on sidewalks are terrorists."--Fnarf

Wow. I'm a little confused--who's the terrorist vigilante in this scenario?
37
@26- I feel pity for you.
38
"Separated bike lanes will never happen" - this is not reality. Dexter already has one, they're being installed on Broadway as we speak. They're already all over the country and world. If we don't install them now, we'll be behind every other dense US city, just like we were with light rail.
39
I am a responsible bicyclist.

1. I do not run red lights.
2. I wear a fucking helmet
3. I do not have headphones on
4. I do not wear dark clothes at night
5. I invested a reasonable amount of money on a good light system.
6. I am always a few steps ahead. I am a defensive rider. I plan ahead. "What happens if that car suddenly pulls in front of me?
7. I yield to vehicles! They weigh more than I do. Do the math, who will win whether who is at fault or not!

I am tired of all you hippie riding a-holes who feels a self entitlement of some sort. That you are better than anyone else and that you have a invisible shield protecting you!

I am drive a car as well, and I am not sticking up for all drivers. There are a good share of idiot drivers out there as well, but that is another topic.

Have some commonsense all you bicyclist out there. Take responsibility and protect yourself!

40
@32, I am not a "vehicular cycling nut", and I support better cycling infrastructure when it's practical. It very often is not. That's just reality.

It is also ludicrous to suggest that "vehicular cycling nuts" have killed thousands; while thousands have certainly died (something like 750 a year in the US, I think? A tiny fraction of all road deaths), most of those deaths would not have been prevented by practical cycling infrastructure. Most of them are caused by poor cycling habits -- like riding on the sidewalk.

The answer to NONE of the problems with cycling in a city is "just ride on the sidewalk".
41
@26

So you physically attack people you see riding on the sidewalk? I call bullshit. And if you're thinking of turning your fantasy into reality: don't. If someone hits their head after falling off their bike, they could be seriously injured.
42
@36, the asshole zipping down the sidewalk totally oblivious to the woman with the stroller, the granny with a walker, and the three kids walking home from school, and shouting at them to get the fuck out of the way, obviously. Wheel-kicking is a defensive maneuver.
43
@9: Emor, there is some interesting data that turned up on the League's site this year about where fatal accidents occur. This is super preliminary data, but it does show that about half of the fatalities don't happen at intersections.

It'll be interesting to see if this holds up over time.
44
I'm with Fnarf on this one. Unlike in Seattle, riding your bike on the sidewalk is illegal in Denver. Do you thnk that stops anyone from doing it? Hell no. After being knocked down numerous times, I now square my shoulders and take them out first. Tough fucking shit.
45
@40

Side note re: cycling fatalities.

The rate of cycling deaths has gone down since the 1970s. This did not happen entirely because of better infrastructure or better education. It happened largely because children don't really ride bikes anymore. Kids and their tragically fatal bonehead mistakes hugely inflated the numbers. I think this is related to the statistic that people who wear helmets are less likely to die: people who tend to not wear helmets are the kind of people who tend to make tragically fatal bonehead mistakes.
46
@40: But the answer to cyclists on the sidewalk who *may* at some point in the future hit a pedestrian (the news is full of reports of those incidents, eh?) is the preemptively kick their bike out from under them?
47
40- It's very clear that separated bike lanes on major streets would prevent most bicycle injuries & fatalities. This isn't the only study but probably the newest.

http://dc.streetsblog.org/2012/10/22/stu…
48
Ironically, last week when I rode my bike through town, some uniformed motorist snidely told me that I should be riding on the sidewalk. I believe his exact words were "That's what sidewalks are for."
49
When I first moved to Seattle, I was guilty of riding on the sidewalk sometimes when it wasn't too crowded -- but I always felt really nervous riding in the streets because I was kind of slow at riding my bike and could feel the drivers seething rage as they tailgated me. I would usually try to take smaller residential streets whenever possible. So I can sympathize with cyclists who hate riding in the streets but please be extra careful on sidewalks since it also sucks to be yelled at or hit by a cyclists because "you were in their way."
50
I am a responsible bicyclist.

1. I do not run red lights.
2. I wear a fucking helmet
3. I do not have headphones on
4. I do not wear dark clothes at night
5. I invested a reasonable amount of money on a good light system.
6. I am always a few steps ahead. I am a defensive rider. I plan ahead. "What happens if that car suddenly pulls in front of me?
7. I yield to vehicles! They weigh more than I do. Do the math, who will win whether who is at fault or not!

I am tired of all you hippie riding a-holes who feels a self entitlement of some sort. That you are better than anyone else and that you have a invisible shield protecting you!

I am drive a car as well, and I am not sticking up for all drivers. There are a good share of idiot drivers out there as well, but that is another topic.

Have some common sense all you bicyclist out there. Take responsibility and protect yourself!
51
Also, all of you ranting about the impossibility of building good cycling infrastructure in Seattle have clearly been asleep while Greenways have been built in your neighborhoods.
52
I'm just going to assume I'm still a huge douchebag for riding my bike on the sidewalk, even though I don't ride full speed, I slow down for pedestrians and only pass them when I have plenty of room, I ring my bell to indicate my presence when overtaking or when approaching any blind corners or other low-visibility situations, I come to complete stops at stop signs and red lights and otherwise obey all pertinent regulations, I have a proper headlight, taillight, and helmet, and I keep my head on a swivel for vehicular traffic that might not see me.

Because blanket proscriptions are easier than using your fucking brain.

Sometimes I walk. Sometimes I ride the bus. Sometimes I bike. Sometimes I drive. Trust me, no matter how you're getting around, people doing any of those can and will do stupid shit that can ruin your trip or your day or your life. Look out for them, learn from their mistakes, and don't do the stupid shit they do when you're getting around that way.
53
@40

Wow, I'm amazed. That data suggests being rear-ended is the most common fatal crash. I only worry about those collisions while riding country highways. It's not really even on my radar in an urban setting. I guess it's not that surprising, though, as the cars in those collisions are probably moving faster than a car in a right-hook incident.

I'd be curious to see that statistics for all collisions, not just fatal ones. I'd bet that the the majority do occur in intersections. I think that data is more pertinent (even if it doesn't exists) because non-fatal collisions are way more common than fatal ones.
54
Whoops I meant @43
55
Biking will continue to be more dangerous than driving even with dedicated bike lanes. The risks of being a meat-bag wizzing through space at 20mph with nothing to protect you except a bit of foam on the top of your head are inherent.

P.S. Not only does biking on the sidewalk put pedestrians at risk, it puts the cyclist at risk in controlled intersections as cars nose into an empty crosswalk scanning the road for fast moving traffic before making a right turn on a red light. Amazes me that biking on the sidewalk is still legal in Seattle.
56
@42- So the terrorist is a figment of your imagination, then. You voted for Bush twice, didn't you?
57
Part of the problem is where you put such bike lanes. Sad to say, some biking advocates can be complete assholes about this: it isn't enough that people bike, but drivers must be made to suffer.

You think I'm being hyperbolic? Exhibit A for my point is the Jarvis Street bike line in Toronto. A loooooooong overdue bike lane. The city had needed one for years. And where did they INSIST on putting it? On one of the most vital city arteries, the key north-south street between Yonge (the street that runs right up the middle of Toronto) and the DVP (the badly designed urban highway to the east). The most adaptable car route in the city because of its five lanes, the centre being southbound (into the city) in the morning, and northbound in the evening.

Did they put the bike lane on any of the other many north-south streets there which would have been better choices? No. Like an asshole neighbour who builds his shed exactly in the only line of sight you have to the lake (because he's enjoying fucking you over) the bike devotees were determined to mess with the most efficient non-highway east side car route in and out of Toronto's downtown.
58
dude
59
@53: Yeah, it really shook up a lot of my own thinking about injuries. It suggests that the accepted wisdom about this may not be accurate, but it's hard to know because there just are not sufficient data out there. That so many fatalities happen from being hit from behind shook me to the foundation, because that's the one type of accident you absolutely cannot control for. I think a lot of us feel a false sense of security when we're riding (50 is a perfect example of that) because we believe that we're somehow more competent and safer than those other people who do something stupid and get maimed/killed.

I think that's why when a cyclist is killed, the immediate reaction even among other cyclists often is to blame the victim. "Well, he wasn't wearing a helmet/was riding too fast/was being reckless/was stupid" makes other cyclists feel like they're immune from such risks. The truth is cycling is very risky because we have deliberately engineered our streets to be so. It's time to fix that.

Also, as most of you know, I ride with my two-year-old in a trailer, and I absolutely ride on the sidewalk in places where the street isn't safe. It sucks, because I have to ride slowly and I always yield to peds, but I believe in using the entirety of the urban environment to safely navigate my way through the urban jungle.
60
In Seattle, it's legal to ride a bicycle on a sidewalk (in Vancouver, it's not). That's all you need to know. Somebody decides to do it, that's their choice, and taking action to make it unsafe for them as a statement is a criminal act. Taking action to make it inconvenient as a statement is an asshole move. Don't like it? Work to change the law. Think it unsafe? Don't do it yourself.

In my seventh decade on this earth, I can't ever remember being told to get out of the way by a sidewalk-riding bicyclist. Passed too close or faster than I liked, yes. Injured by one? Never. Whacked by a car on the road while riding my bike? Several times.
61
@56, I see them every day. Some of them are presumably you. You don't see them, because you don't see anything; you certainly don't see the grannies, because if you did you'd GET OFF YOUR FUCKING BIKE AND WALK IT, OR RIDE IN THE STREET. Fuck you people.

And no, your laughable attempt to pigeonhole me has failed utterly once again. Not a Bush voter; not remotely resembling a Bush voter. Your accuracy rate is bubbling along at 0%. Fool.

@51, those "Greenways" are even less actual than sharrows. In fact, they appear to be nothing BUT sharrows, with the additional feature of total irrelevancy. There's supposedly one in Wallingford, where I'm sitting, but it doesn't go anywhere that anyone wants to go -- after all, if it did that, it would already be a heavily trafficked street. There's a reason arterials are where they are -- they go places where large numbers of people want or need to go.

"Greenways are routes on low-volume residential streets where people who bike and walk are given priority. It provides a safer alternative to busy arterials, which in this case, would be North 45th Street."

The problem here is obvious: I ride on the arterial because the stuff I'm trying to get to is on the arterial. Saying "here, ride on this residential street blocks away from where you actually want to be" isn't helping. And streets where bicycles are rare are far more dangerous to ride on than busy streets, where cyclists are expected.

Hilariously, the only photos I can find of the Wallingford Greenway, which is the only actually-constructed one (or at least signed), have parked cars outnumbering pedestrians and bikes by approximately ten-to-one-to-zero.
62
Sorry to rant on this topic, but this is one of the things that drives me nuts about people whose side I want to be on: green and/or alternative and/or mass transit folks. I want more people on bikes, I want more bike lanes, I want more urban trains instead of cars. And there's loads of folks like me.

But, while I can't speak for Seattle, I can speak about T.O., my home town. Bike lanes and trains would get a lot more support where their advocates aren't sanctimonious scolds vibrating with moral rage and determined only to play zero sum games with a side order of "we know best so well we don't need to listen to you!". Lots of people in Toronto want to get the hell out of their cars into subways. They're willing to pay for subways. They're willing to have their roads torn up for subways. So what do the alt-transit types give them? An insistence on light rail projects, which the public hates and which interfere with car flow. Lots of Torontonians want bike lines, but what does the City give them? They insist on it being on what's arguably the best car route in the city and then the City staff tell folks whose commutes are now a half hour longer that their projections and computer models say that they've only lost a minute and a half.

If we're going to have public and buy-in and support let's start with not sneering at people's actual preferences and experiences, shall we?
63
@56: Maybe you should not insult other people's cognition so much, because from what I recall, you were the one on here sticking up for and trying to protect that "Violentacrez" guy's right to continue anonymously victimizing underage girls through reddit.

And that would take quite a dumb ass.
64
dan should write a mega-post combining cyclists, pit bulls, gentrification/development and light rail to get every troll and angry cyclist to comment.
65
As a driver, I greatly prefer cyclists to be closer to the middle of the lane. I see them better; cyclist is safer with respect to my car.

The few times I nearly knocked a cyclist down was when they were riding in a bike lane. Once when they pulled up just a moment before I turned at an intersection. The other time, I obliviously opened my car door a moment after the cyclist flew by (whew!)

I try even harder to be safer now but, just being honest, cyclists in the center of the lane fare better around me.

Cyclists on sidewalks should not be.

Bike lanes on busy streets where side streets are present, should not be.

66
@59, I've seen those statistics before, which is why I recently dramatically upgraded my rear lights and am thinking about upgrading them more. If your rear light isn't roughly comparable to a car's, people can't see you.

Any cyclist who thinks that their little half-watt blinky is protecting them from anything is fooling him- or herself. In Germany, where cycling safety is taken seriously, and generator lights are required by law, blinkies are actually illegal. I know from driving that most motorists are not in fact actively trying to kill cyclists; they just can't tell where they are. Blinkies make it HARDER to spot you, not easier, especially if it's raining. Your light totally gets lost in the noise of streetlights, car lights, house lights, and the wet reflections of the lights of streets, cars and houses.

Knowing that "Christ, I think someone is over there somewhere" is not particularly helpful. What is helpful is extremely bright steady lights, preferably more than one, and lots of side-light, either from spillage or reflectors. Get better lights, people.
67
@41: No, I physically defend myself from people who are about to hit me. Thankfully the two I've tossed attempted to slow down before hitting me, which means they weren't hurt that badly. And while I prefer not to seriously injure someone on a bike, I more strongly prefer not being injured myself. Particularly when the collision is entirely their fault.
68
I was once a long-time bicycle commuter. My first year in Seattle, I biked to work every day. And that includes the winter. I also rode a lot for fun and competition. Then I got in a bike accident. No cars involved, thankfully. Still, I broke my dominant hand. And it was a big one. Turns out that there are lots of ways to get in a bad bike accident, even without cars: blown tire, potholes, etc.

Still, put in the time to build myself a new bike. It's a sweet-looking thing, too. Then, shortly before getting ready to ride again, a good friend of mine was killed by a driver making an insane maneuver. Just a random bullshit maneuver that happens sometimes. At that point, I just concluded that biking isn't worth it. It's just too fucking dangerous.

If anyone's in the market for a sweet custom-built bike, however...
69
This convos been going on for a while, but I ride in the street. I've been hit several times and hand my arm broken in a hit and run.

I WILL ride on the sidewalk though. And if I do ride on the sidewalk for whatever reason, I go no faster than the speed of people walking on it, and if its crowded in any sense, I hop off.

But its very easy for me to roll behind someone walking, not pass them, and have them not even realize i'm there.
70
@62, "They insist on it being on what's arguably the best car route in the city"

Think about what you just wrote. Why is it the best car route in the city? Do you think that your reasons might apply to cyclists as well? Cyclists are coming from the same sorts of places as you, and trying to get to the same sorts of places as well.

But you're saying that they should be forced to ride blocks away from where they need to be.

Your point about the stupidity of at-grade light rail is well-taken, though. I gotta say, though, the respectability of the viewpoints of Torontonians is severely damaged by the existence of your fatuous (and just plain fat) mayor, Rob Ford (or "Robs Fords", as the Bike Snob calls him, because there's enough of him for three normal mayors). Douchebag -- and bike opponent.
71
@61: Fair enough. You know, of course, that I haven't seen the Greenways, so I don't know how good they are.

Regarding the arterial versus residential street argument: I would love to see an ideal world where arterials are streets for transit and bikes, and not just single-occupancy vehicles. Right now, the cyclists who are willing to ride on arterials are those who are less risk-averse than the general population. A study out of Portland State found that all cyclists are willing to detour to ride on less stressful streets, and women more so. Interestingly, men will detour further. A half mile seems to be the average that riders are willing to detour, so Portland is installing its network of bicycle boulevards, which we're calling "greenways" now for political reasons, about every half mile or so.

I believe if we get a decent chunk of the interested but concerned out on the streets we will have a critical mass of people who ride bikes - note that I don't call them "cyclists" - and we will have reached the tipping point in terms of building better infrastructure. But we have to reach those folks first.
72
"Patronizing "sharrows," imaginary bike lanes..."

I, too, want seperated bike lines. But your comment is wrong about sharrows (agreed - a waste of time & paint). Sharrows have nothing to do with bike lanes, real or imaginary. They indicate to all that that road is frequented by cyclists and to be aware. They are more like a deer-crossing signs.
73
@61- Well see fnarf, your irrational rage at a non-existent boogeyman is so neoconservative it had me confused. Perhaps if you weren't spewing spittle soaked vitriol like a Fox News viewer on a caffeine binge people wouldn't make these mistakes.

@63- You appear to have mistaken me for at least half a dozen people. I was one of the people here arguing that doxxing people for doing thing you find distasteful is a bad trend.

74
"I more strongly prefer not being injured myself. Particularly when the collision is entirely their fault. "

Which is why I ride on the sidewalk sometimes. No one has ever done more than cast a dirty look my way.
75
I know from driving that most motorists are not in fact actively trying to kill cyclists; they just can't tell where they are.
And it's getting worse, given the window designs in the current crop of cars, which simply aren't as good at all-around vision as those of five or ten years ago. Fashions change, and the current design fashions are too good for producing blind spots.
76
In the spirit of bipartisanship, I would like to offer a simple compromise: If you're going to ride on the sidewalk, don't be an asshole.

Or, even better, if you're going to be engaging in any activity in which you come into contact with other human beings, don't be an asshole.

Really, people...this isn't that hard.
77
Bicycling on the sidewalk should be illegal for anyone over the age of 12.
78
@71, it would also be good if people would remember that there are many viewpoints. It's not "cyclists, er, people who ride bikes vs. cars", it's cars and taxis and delivery trucks and dump trucks and semis and motorcycles and pedestrians and and wheelchairs and walkers and strollers and joggers and rollerbladers and scooterers (kind of surprised that 'scooterers' passes spellcheck there) and and buses and streetcars and trains and boats on trailers and ambulances and fire trucks and every other kind of vehicle, and they all have special needs.

These special needs can and do conflict all the time.

I can go over and look at 45th and see that the recent improvements to make bus travel better, including "bus bulbs" at the stops and islands in the turn lane (to prevent cars from swinging around buses at those stops) actively make my travel as a cy-er, person who rides bikes worse.

But it's OK; the bus is (supposedly) getting more benefit out of the arrangement than I would from the old one.
79
@42: Oh, so it's not ALL cyclists on the sidewalk, just the uppity ones that you've deemed dangerous? What's your vigilante fantasy for asshole drivers--you know, people with a size/speed/weight advantage over you?

80
@71- The Wallingford Greenway is full of parked cars. It's a residential street, after all. It does beat riding that stretch of 45th it parallels.
81
@74: Which brings us back to my original point: that if cyclists knew that colliding with a pedestrian meant they would be thrown from their bikes, they would probably walk rather than ride on the sidewalk. Or at least ride much more slowly and cautiously.
82
@78 glad you were able to calm down and make a post without CAPS.

Speaking of grade separation, it wouldn't need to cost that much to build an elevated bicycle "freeway". At least compared to monorails, tunnels, ripping up the road (and all that entails) and putting in streetcar rail, etc.
83
@73, IT'S NOT NONEXISTENT. You are blind or stupid or both if you don't see cyclists on sidewalks as a menace to the people using them appropriately. It happens ALL THE TIME. I saw one on 45th TODAY -- not just on the sidewalk, but blazing through the bus stop full of people.

Your own comment, "WALK TO THE RIGHT SIDE" (so you can blaze through on wheels) tells us that you have no idea who is using sidewalks or for what purpose (or not using them, because they're afraid of being mowed down by you). You are the fuckin' enemy right there, pig. That's not "neoconservative", it's fact.

@75, it's worse the other way too. Smaller, darker windows make it almost impossible to tell if a parked vehicle is occupied (and thus about to fling open a door) or not. Tinted windows should be against the law -- are, beyond a certain point, but unenforceably so.
84
Fnarf @70. Take a look at Jarvis on Google maps. There are many, many, many alternatives for the bikes. If the position you're taking is "if we're going to have it a bike lane it must only be on the best car arterial in the city!" then that's part of the problem that I'm highlighting. Bike advocates in Toronto (especially those on council) are often of that ilk: they live downtown and they work downtown and they bike downtown (more power to 'em, because I used to) and they automatically gravitate towards making drivers miserable rather than maximizing all kinds of traffic flow. That, btw, is one of the reasons that Rob Ford got so many damned votes (only about a thou+ shy of #s 1 and 2 combined): shitloads of Torontonians commute by cars, and a huge proportion of them want subways instead. Ford, for all of his idiocy, was the only candidate unequivocally saying, "let's not fuck over drivers" and "let's have subways instead of light rail".

Jarvis is great for cars because of the five lanes (take that away for bikes and it's just another road, south of Bloor) and because of the way that it connects to Mt. Pleasant, which continues well up to almost the top of the City's north end.
85
@80 that depends on whether you are trying to get to things on 45th or not. If you are, riding on 42nd isn't a lot of help. And I am much more afraid of car doors on near-deserted side streets than on busy ones like 45th, where traffic protects me from inattention.
86
Fnarf@70 re light rail: Be it a meal or a subway route, people'd rather pay more for what they do want than less for what they don't. This is where Ford very cleverly (as a politician, anyways) played on driver resentment against all the light rail plans: the sense that it was money spent that made some smug asshole feel better about putting you in your place. I honestly think that a lot of voters see it something like this:
"A subway will cost [say] $10b and is more expensive to retain down the road, whereas the LRT will only cost [say] $4b."
"Yeah, but the subway actually does something, is faster and more pleasant to use, and doesn't get in the way of my car and make all the vehicle traffic a nightmare and I don't have to wait in the cold and fucking snow, and I'd rather pay for what I want."
"But we want to make it a nightmare! That will force you to take the LRT that you don't want!"

LRT seems to have a disproportionate fan base amongst transit wonks, far more than it does amongst commuters and taxpapers, with little effort to match up public service with (or even consider) public desires. "Shut up, it's good for you" might be excellent for policy papers, but it's paralytically stupid for politics. And however stupid Ford is he's better at listening (or is perceived to be better at listening) to most voters than his smugger, smoother competitors.
87
@78: Of course it would be good if people would remember that there are many viewpoints and many modes of transportation. But I firmly believe that infrastructure has been built almost exclusively to accommodate cars (don't get me fucking started on parking) to the complete and total detriment of our climate, urban form, culture, public health, and general well-being in every possible way. I will always advocate for supremacy of non-SOV modes of transport, particularly human-powered non-SOV modes of transport, over other modes. And I do so unapologetically.
88
@85: Then ride in the middle of the street on a greenway like the boss you are, darling.
89
@84, you're not hearing me at all.

Bikes want the EXACT SAME THING as cars. "Those other streets, those are fine for bikes, this good street here is what I want in my car". You don't think that connecting to Mt. Pleasant is something a bicycle commuter would want to do? Every single point you're making applies to bikes as well. It's not just "the best car arterial", it's the best bike arterial too -- so share a little bit of it. You're not going to die. No one is saying "make Jarvis bike-only". It's YOU who are saying "Jarvis must be car-only, because I drive a car". Bike advocates aren't asking for everything; they're asking for a sliver.
90
@89 .... aaaaand we're back to the shed and the sightline.

Yes, the bike commuter can use Mt. Pleasant. And, when you hit the five lines just below that he can move over one frikkin' block to preserve the best car arterial in the city.

Seriously, cyclists would win over more drivers if it wasn't -- in this case as a good example -- not just wanting just access to toys in the playground but the one fucking toy above the dozens of others that some other kid needs.
91
@61: There is now a signed (but not completed) Greenway on 39th Ave NE, paid for by Children's Hospital. 39th was the street everyone used anyway to leave the Burke-Gilman and head up into the hinterlands of Wedgwood. You'd use it, too, if you were heading north; it's a long, steady uphill, and there isn't much on the adjoining arterials (35th and 40th) that would make you want to travel up them exclusively. Sure, cut over to the PCC when you hit 65th, or climb up to Top Pot when you hit 70th, but otherwise there isn't much there there.

Going downhill (south), I usually take 35th or 40th instead because it's an arterial and you don't have to slow way down at the cross-streets like you have to/should when you're on 39th.

Anyway, it's more than just sharrows and signs; they put in islands on all the crossing arterials, so that you can go halfway across, and the plan is to put stop signs on all the crossing non-arterials (for example, NE 62nd St). Which points out the key thing about Greenways - they're mostly for people who are too timid to ride arterials like, say, me when biking with my 9-year old to school. Or people who don't want to use the arterial, like (apparently) most cyclists biking uphill for 35 blocks straight from the BGT.

Like the blurb from the city says, they're an alternative. You don't have to use them, but you can if you want. There are still sharrows on 35th NE (and maybe 40th; I don't pay that much attention to them), even though the Greenway is there a few blocks away.
92
@87, yes, but as in the example I pointed out, the conflict isn't always between non-SOV and SOV. Sometimes, often in fact, it's between different types of non-SOV. Bike vs. bus, bike vs. light rail, hell, on 45th it's bus vs. bus half the time.
93
Dear Bikers,

I walk on the far right on sidewalks. I taught my kids to. Sometimes we walk single file when there is traffic. Sure it looks goofy, but one kid is hearing impaired and no politely worded request to pass or bike bell is going to be heard. So we have developed the assumption that we share the sidewalk with more than pedestrians. I ask you to please try to remember that some pedestrians may lack the agility to move quickly out of your way, some may lack the ability to hear you, others the visual ability to see you, et cetera. Don't assume we are going to move as you wish. And, I'll do my best to stay to the right. Let us keep a watchful eye out for each other.

Kind regards,
k
94
" Sydney installed a handful and immediately bike ridership went up 82%. Now it's installing 55km of them."

Sydney weather would help our ridership. Their streets are far wider than ours too.
95
Much of the rancor surrounding this topic stems from what people think of when referring to a sidewalk. Given the widely varying situations in an American urban landscape, you'd think that if the Eskimos mythically have a hundred words for snow, Americans would have more words to describe their roadways.

Cyclists belong on roads, and sidewalks belong to pedestrians. Period. In general, I'm with Fnark, taking the opinion that if you can't stand the traffic, or if traffic makes you too nervous, take a bus, or find a different route.

That said, I can see how, in a sprawling metropolitan area like Seattle (in a nation with monumentally ill-conceived urban planning), there are probably vast stretches of city where the 'sidewalks' are entirely vacant, and the term is really a misnomer.

When I think of the idiocy of allowing cyclists on the sidewalks, I think of city sidewalks, like on Broadway or 5th Avenue downtown. But, as one comment suggested, there are places outside the city center, where the 'sidewalks' are rarely if ever used by pedestrians, and are probably wide enough to accommodate pedestrians AND cyclists.

Maybe there is even cause to consider re-classifying some disused sidewalks as alternative mixed-use roadways, painting a stripe down the middle to designate pedestrian and cyclists areas.
96
Fnarf, if you're so enamored of this tactic pre-emptively hurting people who make you feel scared, I suggest moving to Florida.
97
@83- You saw someone not collide with a bunch of people and you're very upset about it. Forgive me for not finding this a very persuasive argument against my own style of riding, which doesn't involve blazing through crowds but does involve using the sidewalk sometimes.

And WALK ON THE RIGHT ought to be standard behavior for everyone, just like we drive to the right, stand on the right on escalators, drive on the right unless passing, etc... You're probably not the fastest person using whatever transportation medium you're on, if you're not keeping to the right you are being inconsiderate.

If I want to get to 45th from 42nd I head north at the appropriate cross street, then ride on the sidewalk till I find a place to lock my bike.
98
@67: By your description, it sounds like they're trying to stop/avoid as you assault them.

I avoid sidewalks unless the street is completely deadly, partly out of a sense that I have a right to ride on the road, and partly out of sensing how dangerous those side street crossings are. When I do ride on the sidewalk, I ride slowly. I have, even then -- or maybe because I'm riding slowly enough -- had the odd pedestrian who jumps in front of me to block my way. One of those people was so crazy that when I got off my bike to walk past her, she continued to physically block me. I've never made contact, but if one of them attacked me the way you've described, I would go into full self-defense mode, and you would probably think twice about attacking strangers after that.

I wonder whether the seething assholes end up attacking the people who are actually riding slowly and responsibly enough to be caught by someone on foot -- out of frustration at not being able to get the ones who are screaming by dangerously.
99
Riding on sidewalks is insanely dangerous - it's WAY more dangerous for more pedestrians than is riding in the street dangerous for a single you. This kind of ridiculous self-important attitude (in this case, ignoring both traffic laws and safety concerns for pedestrians, though it comes up with respect to many, many cyclists' failures to signal, stop for stop signs, follow traffic lights, turn from or into proper lanes, etc.) does immeasurable and extensive damage to the campaign for pro-cycling policy by lending legitimacy to stereotypical and unkind views of cyclists. For all of our sakes, please knock it the fuck off. Obey the fucking traffic laws - you're ultimately even making things less-safe for yourselves (as well as the rest of us cyclists) by creating a climate of uncertainty.

The primary function of traffic laws is not to have everyone behaving in the safest way possible in every single instance, but to provide a system of predictable behaviors so everyone on the road can predict with relative accuracy how everyone else will behave, which is way safer on average than everyone doing what ze feels is safest in any given moment. When a sizable portion of a given population - in this case cyclists - ignores these laws, it creates a situation in which the behavior of any/all cyclists is unpredictable, which in turn makes the behavior of drivers of motor vehicles unpredictable for cyclists, as we don't know what they think we're going to do. Your position, Dan and Mistermix, is dangerously egocentric and myopic. If you really need the added sense of security, I'd much rather you drive (well), even given the environmental impacts, while still advocating for bicycle infrastructure.
100
@97, eat shit and die, selfish motherfucker.

I encourage everyone in this thread to read kim in portland @93. You don't know who you're sharing those sidewalks with.

@96, I know you're a big tough manly man with nothing but contempt for people who are so weak as to be afraid. FEAR IS WEAKNESS, right? Fucking ape. How impressive your muscles must be.

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