Comments

1
I'm not sure I understand this issue. Why will we have a medical pot system at all, once pot is legal?
2
Put a pencil thin mustache on that guy and he'd be the image John Waters.
3
I don't see why you can't dispense a non-addictive medication that is less addictive than alcohol in a place, so long as you met the stricter alcohol restrictions.

Kind of like not letting places that sell cigarettes not sell cigars.

Keep your Nanny State ideas out of here, Rod.
4
Good news for the opponents of "entitlement" programs like medicare and SSA disability. Where any medical marijuana patients will automatically lose there benefits for using an illegal (by fed standards) drug. Thanks to mandatory reporting of medical marijuana use in their medical records.
5
@1 - Something that the Stranger has not touched on in their pot-legalization stories: The advent of MMJ has increased focus away from Indica strains, and towards Sativa strains, as well as reduced-THC strains, due to the differing effects of these strains, and the recognition that the CBD compounds in MJ provide pain relief. Low-THC/high-CBD strains become valuable to MMJ patients who benefit from the pain relief, but don't want to be stoned (Indicas) or high (Sativas).

There is real concern that the legal pot industry will return the focus to Indica strains, as Indica buds are heavier, and you get more $/lb per plant.

The current well-operated MMJ dispensaries put an emphasis on these strain differences in an effort to identify strains that work better for different people. It's completely possibly that post-legalization Pot Shops will not have this focus.
---
Without knowing more details, it sounds like this legislation is trying to kill the MMJ dispensaries. If true, Why?
6
1: quantities?
7
@4, I seriously doubt that you're correct, as Medicare and SSA disability are not dependent upon passing a drug test, and medical privacy laws prohibit disclosing a patient's treatment history in that way.

This law on the face of it seems good to me, but given that it's sponsored by Republicans it's probably bad and I just don't understand it. I'm all in favor of limiting medical mmj operations to people who truly need it.

I'm a bit hazy on why we need medical marijuana at all when retail operations are available, and while I know the regulations are different I suspect that in the end the broader retail outlets will win out. Though I do like that the medical dispensaries are not as limited in where they can set up operations.
8
One the one hand, Rodney Tom is like the microwave in Time Bandits, and I worry about those who heed not Kevin's warnings...

On the other, removing authorization mills seems like actual good policy and properly noted medical records appear benign.
9
@1) There are lots of benefits to being a medical marijuana patient (possess more, grow at home, buy from dispensaries). Last fall I made this table that explains the differences.
10
@5, @9 Both very helpful.
11
Medical pot is a LOT cheaper than the proposed prices under the recreational legalization law.
12
Never seen a picture of Mr. Tom before. He looks like John Waters' square older brother.
13
This is funny! I've always predicted that marijuana "legalization" would wind up reducing supply and driving up prices. The dishonesty and hypocrisy is outrageous, but since I don't smoke dope and don't respect those who do, I'll be laughing when you idiots pay $15 a gram for your "legal" pot that you could grow yourself for a dime if it was legal like beer.

What complete suckers you stoners are.
14
@1: Naturopaths need kickbacks?
15
@7 - Actually SSA get access to your medical records if they are deciding to give you or letting you continue to receive benefits. It is a very large concern.

I also don't like where the Doctor part is going. Most doctors are not comfortable and therefore won't prescribe medical mj leaving the only option is to go to a prescription mill. This law appears to make both worse. Outlaw the med mj only doctors and intimidate traditional doctors with more hoops which add no benefit.

This is bad all around.
16
Hey you dumb stoners, you complete idiot suckers, you never understood what would happen. Now that the state is setting up its own cartel, it has to put the competition out of business, either directly or by bringing them into the cartel. Your prices are going to go up, stoners. And the legal amount you can purchase or possess will go down.

Welcome to what you people seemed to think (I use the word "think" loosely with stoners) was going to be marijuana legalization. I will wager that most stoners still think Washington State has legalized dope. Ha ha! Joke's on you!
17
@2, while I agree with you on that one, my original reaction to the photo was that I probably could have taken it while playing Sims... not that I play Sims... I'm just saying he looks computer generated. Obvious followup thought, John Waters looks like a Sim!
18
I'm sorry everyone...

@16, I take umbrage at that! I am a regular stoner and hold several degrees (one of them even puts a Dr. in front of the old name) AND I am well respected at "thinking".

Although I must say, I would have said the same thing as you once; when I was 20, Republican, and really just a total dick.
19
#18, the truth hurts, doesn't it?

What's really amusing is how predictable this all was. The stoners didn't want to hear it then, and you don't want to hear it now. Your dispensaries are going to become indistinguishable from retail dope stores, with prices to match. Ka ching!
20
p.s.: Stoners, say goodbye to home growing for any medical marijuana patients. If you think the state cartel is going to keep that in place ... well, I guess you're dumb enough to think so. Just wait. Community gardens are the walkin' dead. You'll see.
21
@5. I'd disagree re; going away from sativas in non medical shops. If you look at what is available in Amsterdam you see that it tends to alternate between hazes(sativa dominant) and kushes(indica dominant). From my experience enough people prefer hazes that there is a definite market for it.
22
If they tax beer why not MJ?
23
#22, the only way to meaningfully tax marijuana is to keep it semi-legal and put the state into a cartel that will (try to, anyway) limit quantity and raise prices. If MJ is ever really legalized like beer, it will swifty become untaxable in any significant way.

Beer is a manufactured product. You can make it yourself, and in fact are allowed to. But the hassle factor is enough to keep most people from doing it. You need bulky equipment, bulky ingredients, and there are a bunch of ins and outs involved. In the end, you wind up with four cases of beer, which you then have to bottle and store. And then you get to break down your equipment and sterilize everything and hope to keep track of it all until next time.

Marijuana is much easier. All of the difficulty of growing it is the consequence of it being illegal and therefore needing to be concealed. If it were as legal as beer, you could buy feminized seeds and starts at the nursery. The seed companies would soon make great seeds that yielded kick ass dope. Anyone who can grow veggies could grow acceptable pot.

Would home grown pot from a typical gardener be the very best? Probably not, but at 10 cents a gram vs. $15 from the state cartel it would be good enough. Soon, the state cartel would collapse, along with the ability to levy much taxes. There'd still be some people who bought through the official channels, but most pot would be home grown and whatever was available commercially would be a whole lot cheaper because it would have to be.

That's what would happen if pot was as legal as beer. And that's why it will never be as legal as beer. There's no money in that for the state. But if they kill the dispensaries (or absorb them into the system, which is the same thing), and kill the community gardens, and keep home growing illegal (and who knows, maybe crack down hard), then they can support that $15 a gram and all the taxes.

That's what they're going to try to do, anyway. I'll be laughing, especially at the stoner idiots who think they've made any progress.
24
@23 (et al): Grandpa, get off the internet! You're drunk!
25
Sooner or later, Costco will be selling it by the brick.
It will be cheap, plentiful, and shitty.
The rest of us that might have it prescribed will get the stains that relieve the pains, an not cause debilitating "high" side effects.
My doctor hasn't given me the green light yet, I'm handling the chemo without it, and he says I'm "too high functioning" to be slowed down.

This is an interesting story, but to many of the people commenting, you have no idea what it's like riding the fine line between life an death and having so many stupid people say stupid things about something that, if things go wrong, would provide medical relief where big pharma has failed.
This bill is about MJ, the hoops I would have to jump through, and what's the real purpose of those hoops.
Rodney Tom can burn in Hell.
26
At 22, you fucking moron, it's a bill about medical MJ. What other prescription has a sales tax?
Are there doctors prescribing beer, you fucking dumbshit.
27
#25/26, even if your use is genuinely medical, that's not what medical marijuana has ever been about. No one ever cared, regardless of what they claimed, and that will not change. Medical marijuana was always a figleaf for recreational stoners, and everyone knows it. In Oregon, where procedures for getting a medical card are a little tighter, fewer than 2% of the card holders have it as the result of a cancer diagnosis. Two-thirds of the prescriptions are for vague complaints like "stress."

The good news for you is that you'll still get your pot. True, you'll pay a lot more for it, and if you grow it that will stop, at least legally. The I-502 proponents are all about tax revenue, and the only way to get the revenue will be by forming the tightest cartel they can. I don't know if they'll succeed, but they're going to try. And both The Stranger and their alleged enemy, The Seattle Times, are in lock step on this.
28
@16: "Your prices are going to go up, stoners."

Nope!

"And the legal amount you can purchase or possess will go down."

Nope! The legal amount before was 0.
29
Medical Marijuana is not the same as Recreational Marijuana, we have a process already under the Department of Health where it should stay. It is used as a medicine and should be taxed as a medicine. The legislature should separate growers that want to make a buck and growers that want to provide a product that has been prescribed by a authorized medical provider under Washington state law. Our lawmakers shouldn't be trying to make a buck off of our sick and needy, medical marijuana regulations are fine just the way they are, leave them under the Department of Health. Recreational Marijuana producers and suppliers should be under the Liquor Board, if they want to bleed people using a substance less dangerous than cigarettes and alcohol, then shake down the industrial growers, and make it easy for them to get licenses.
30
@MrBaker for the win. I don't have a problem with the state taxing commercial growers, but otherwise, this bill will only fuck up a system that is working just fine the way it is.
31
Nope! The legal amount before was 0

If you were too stupid and lazy to get a medical marijuana certificate.
32
Everyone though I was nuts when I said i-502 was a tactic to take over Medical Cannabis by the state of Washington. Now it's being proven I perhaps was not so crazy.
33
#32, the stoners have a very short attention span, and an even shorter time horizon. They are the perfect tools, which is why the politicians will eventually embrace them.
34
So Republicans, against taxes and government regulations...unless its shit they don't like.
35
Soon the state liquor distribution monopoly (LCB) will be deciding whether or not you're sick enough to us cannabis as a medication? Why not the Department of Transportation? That doesn't seem to bother the greedy legislators who can't wait to get their hands on the mythical I-502 tax windfall...that will most likely never materialize.

This law was designed to end medical cannabis in this state. This bill will fail. It's interesting to watch the I-502 crowd supporting the taxation and regulation of cannabis for medical use. Misery apparently loves company. And the black market LOVES I-502!

I hope the legislature comes to realize that getting rid of medical will NOT deter the black market one tiny little bit. The government has tried for 70 years to end the black market in cannabis, and spent $1 trillion dollars trying, and it's still alive and healthier than ever. The legislature will NEVER be able to monopolize the cannabis market. I-502 did not end prohibition, it just established the LCB as one new marijuana dealer here in Washington....and an extremely greedy one at that.

Let's not make legitimate patients suffer to protect the state pot monopoly.

Steve Sarich
Cannabis Action Coalition

36
Steve, if you were actually smart and honest, rather than simply a shill for the dispensaries, you'd get behind another initiative to legalize personal cultivation of marijuana, and the trade in seeds and starters. You really want to bust the state cartel? That would do it.
37
Such an initiative should also allow personal possession of up to a half-pound, and gift transfers of up to an ounce.

Trust me, if you were to propose such a thing, then we'd find out just how closely aligned the Stranger, the Seattle Times, and the political establishment really is. They would come down on it like a ton of bricks. The rhetoric would be straight out of Reefer Madness, but the motive would be the same as that of the Mexican cartel: the extraction of money from idiot stoners.

Doubt me? Just try floating "son of I-502" and see what happens.
38
Funny how everyone is so sure of what's going to happen, and how the effort to legalize is going to shape up in one of the first two states to do so. This has never happened before, so the more self-assured someone sounds when they talk about this, the more I know they are full of shit ("Unbrainwashed"). Remember that what our legalization looks like depends on our actions and the actions of others, which are impossible to predict.

It's just a shitty bill that was announced minutes ago. Stop freaking out.
39
#38, I realize that a stoner's ability to think into the future pretty much collapses, but the current progression was entirely predictable. You'll see. Unless, that is, the stoners manage to legalize home growing and the trade in seeds and starters. If they can do that, not only will the state's cartel collapse, but so will the Mexican cartels.
40
@7 HIPAA only works up to the point that US Attorney Jenny Durkan sends your doctor a nasty-gram subpoena, threatening the doctor's license and assets under federal drug kingpin laws. Then your doctor's lawyer will tell the doc to roll over, and the doc will roll over for the feds.

You doctor is not going to risk losing their practice, going to jail, or even spending a dime to protect your privacy if threatened by any law enforcement agency. They're in it for the money, so that's where their loyalty is going to be when shit gets serious. There are always other patients to treat that don't bring legal problems with them.
41
#40, all of which is to say that, in the end, medical marijuana was never about the medicine.
42
@40: "You doctor is not going to risk losing their practice, going to jail, or even spending a dime to protect your privacy if threatened by any law enforcement agency. They're in it for the money"

What the fuck does this even mean? It's the same for your Naturopath, your Herbalist, your Homeopath, whatever. Everyone likes having an income.

Legit, science-based Doctors are fine with MM because it handles pain management well with minimal side-effects and without the same physical addiction. You can likely get doctors to prescribe it outside of the green card industry.
43
#42, medical marijuana will disappear. You'll see.
44
@43: Of course it will. "Medical alcohol" used to be prescribed under prohibition.
45
When did the Liquor Control Board become experts in healthcare? This is MEDICAL marijuana and the people already voted on a law that allows patients to grow a six-month supply TAX FREE! We don't need any more laws to "regulate" (read prosecute) us with!
46
#45, whether or not marijuana is medicine, the medical marijuana system has always been a cover for recreational use. Now that recreational use has been made semi-legal, the state will fold the medical system into its cartel. Whether that cartel will survive is an open question, but the Washington State will try damned hard because if there's one thing this state really tries to do it's to collect taxes and fees.

If you or any other stoner can hold your attention for more than 20 seconds, you'll try right away to legalize home growing, and the trade in seeds and starters. The state will come after that idea with its claws out, and the Stranger and the Seattle Times will be lock-step with them. Just wait, you'll see.
47
Oh, and something else. The powers that be are getting ready to really screw the stoners in another way. They've already started to (pardon the pun) plant stories in the media about the "demand for weaker marijuana." Not only are they going to try to charge you $15 a gram for something you could grow for a dime, but they're going to water it down.

Part of me looks at what's going on and objects to the rank dishonesty of it, and another part of me laughs at how easily fooled the dumb stoners are.
48
Medical marijuana consumers will find that the retail store products come with the safety and consistency standards that simply don't exist in the 'medical co-ops'. In the medical system testing for mold, pesticides and cannabinoid profile simply isn't required. Also, retail stores will make access much more readily available.

What if retail stores kept a corner of 'medical only' products: High CBD strains, higher dosed edibles, etc? Then the state could restrict the 'conditions' list to keep it to critical patients who need these types of products.
49
Medical marijuana consumers will find that the retail store products come with the safety and consistency standards that simply don't exist in the 'medical co-ops'. In the medical system testing for mold, pesticides and cannabinoid profile simply isn't required. Also, retail stores will make access much more readily available.

What if retail stores kept a corner of 'medical only' products: High CBD strains, higher dosed edibles, etc? Then the state could restrict the 'conditions' list to keep it to critical patients who need these types of products.
50
I wrote to the public comment about a month ago, and said they should do as they always do-make licenses about $100,000 a year, and only let rich people make any money. For almost 80 years nobody has paid cash to the state, just lives, in prisons and in murders, while drug war profiteers like cops, jail guards, judges, lawyers have grown fat and arrogant. The $500,000,000.00 yearly the AMA spends on politics has left their control of drug access(fun or necessary) untouched and the brain dead response was forcing us to buy health insurance. The insane profits come from the lack of free market; in drugs, education, licensing. Instead of increasing access to medical education they have helped the monopolistic swine PREVENT freedom and maintain vicious gangs in Mexico and Wash DC to suck upTRILLIONS of dollars. Go to India, or other countries if you need surgery-it isn't illegal... yet
51
The dispensary I go to has medical patients that can make recommendations for different types of relief from different strains. They are more like pharmacists. I prefer not to be in a open location or large building. They also have tinctures, oils, salts, edibles and stronger medicine that would not be, and should not be made available to the general public. Medical patients who receive the true benefit from marijuana do not want the political system to control what they clearly do not understand. Everyone that is involved with this issue should Google or Bing "Rick Simpson Oil". This is serious medicine to many of us and our "good" dispensaries are doing a good job of controlling the quality of medicine they offer. It is tested and priced reasonably.

This measure sounds like it all about $$$$$$$. None of the medical users I know wanted this legalization at all. People should look at all the useful benefits of the entire Hemp plant. It could realistically save our current economic problem. Not just through growing bud for smoking, but as an entire new industry harvesting the many uses of the plant itself. Come on people, this isn't the 60's.

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