Make it easier to sue hospitals for consumer fraud, price fixing, theft by deceit, gauging and maybe a few other things.

But Goldy, you're assuming that those opposed to universal, government funded health care are telling people the truth: That they care about the sick and injured.

They don't.

They care about profits and their own bank accounts. They don't give a shit about you or anyone else.

"for whom's"?
What's wrong with "whose"?

Don't extrapolate a woman that is one taco short of a combination plate to the whole. The 99% would have called 911.

You wouldn't have written this about a woman researching cancer treatment centers online or a man searching prostate care or someone searching for digestive aids or probiotic formulas.

Of course, no health insurance company ever got prosecuted for delaying life-saving treatment while they researched ways to avoid paying for it.

(Speaking of life-saving treatment, somebody needs to fix "for whom's dollars", it's killing me!)

Yes, yes, obviously, but f'reals: WHOM'S?

You missed the point completely raindrop. Here I'll make it simple for you. Pick up the phone call your local hospital, doctor or care center and try and get them to give you a cash price for any medical procedure, you pick. Don't talk to them about insurance at all, tell them it is irrelevant whether you have insurance or not, that you just want a price.

I know you won't try it but you should, the reactions are sadly funny.

@8: If you read the story, she wasn't searching for the best price or calling a hospitals - she was searching WebMD about treatment options.

And on the other hand, if the hospital was an hour's drive away - a little quick study online while the ambulance is in route could be helpful - more so for a snake bite.
Better to always take a first aid course though.

gouging, @1.

@10: en route

If a judge finds that mother to be truly remorseful and ashamed of herself, it warrants the compassion to change her case from a felony to a misdemeanor.

And I too am growing weary of Goldy taking crazy incidents as this and deriving broad assumptions about 'subject du jour'.

@11 Yes, thank you.

And @12 - Yes, thank you. In addition @5 should be "a woman who is one taco...".

If she was comparison-shopping, then this example helps make your point. If she was comparing types of treatment (likely outcomes, side effects -- basically second-guessing the expertise of a doctor), which is more what it sounds like she was doing (based on that quote alone), then this example isn't related.

Another example of a non-functioning market? Electric power. Prices spike (for example) when power use exceeds expected use. But the users don't adjust usage to keep the price under control: the rate-payer's price is constant and blind to supply and demand. The rate-payer will end up paying directly and dearly for those spikes, though...just not until the next rate case.

@17: However electric power companies don't really operate in the free market anyway because they must get the blessing of State Utility Commission to raise rates, I believe. It's also inherently not a free market because you can't switch power companies to get a lower rates from a competitor.

#8 hit the nail on the head.

Hospitals are not required by state law to disclose what they charge until after they treat you. This is not the case in all states but it is here and in most others.

@22: I do indeed. And if even if Bush had done anything from increase airport security to covert actions with special forces he would have been castigated as anything from a big-brother constitution violator to a war monger.

Not saying he shouldn't have take more action, but from the 2000 election on -- his opponents were seething for an opening hop on the war monger spin.

Interesting, a few years back there was a study about GSW victims having a better survival rate when brought in by friends rather than ambulance. The reason being that it saved the 20 minutes delay caused by EMS dispatch, travel time and time on scene. The quicker a trauma patient gets to advanced care the better their survival rate.

But according to David Goldstein, because some idiot was researching options rather than getting the patient to life saving treatment, capitalism is to blame.

The premise that people that can’t pay for healthcare are going to die in the streets is a total crock of shit. Hospitals are required by law to provide lifesaving treatment to everyone regardless of ability to pay. The thing is we have a large percentage of patients on medicare/medicare coming in by ambulance for reasons like "I have a headache and don’t want to pay for Tylenol" or "I drink 40s all day and have diarrhea and don’t want to pay for pepto bismol." and I think in the last decade I have seen maybe 5 assault on staff that were not done by Medicare/caid patients.

So what is you experience in the medical field Goldy? I would guess none.

You see why you spend your time bitching, moaning, and playing "journalist." People like me are working hard to provide life saving care, promote health and wellness in our communities, and creating emergency responce contingency plans for the inevitable disasters that will strike the region.

You see everyday we sacrifice our time and life for the benefit of society, and you David Goldstein with all your crying for socialism, you do fuck all to help society, you are pretty much worthless. In fact you are a parasite, but that is a trend I often see among socialist/communist/liberals.

CB @ 22. You come off as a real asshole. But that is beside the point. The point is that the health care marketplace is truly AFU regardless of whether one is able to afford some kind of health insurance or shows up at an emergency room for immediate critical care.

If a "large percentage" are indeed showing up at emergency expecting free Tylenol tell them to get the fuck out because emergency is just what it says. However, you should cite some credible sources to support your assertions about who receives emergency care rather than just spew about the socialist/commie/libs that apparently have made you crazy/stupid.

Watson, take control and drive Google Car to best care option for gun shot wound.

The Singularity approacheth.

Re: @20, sorry about that - comment thread error.

@25
Well put, you understand the gist of it.

@23
Is spending a decade in emergency medicine enough of a credible source for you?

Most people in ER do not need to be there, most have problems better taken care of by a primary care provider. Many of their problems are self-inflicted and cause by either an unwillingness or an inability to take care of themselves. Making it so food stamps could only buy actual food like meats, fruits and vegetables rather than candy chips and pop would be a huge step towards improving the health of the people in this country. I would also like to see more training for people in schools on how to be healthy, and training in the community.

If anyone is interested highly recommend the book Where There Is No Doctor for the basics on taking care of ourselves and others. http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-Doctor…

We need to realize that responsibility for healthcare rest with the individuals that make up a community. Hospitals are there to have the skills and equipment to take care of conditions we cannot take care of on our own.

As they say “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”

My guess is that she was looking for instructions for DIY gunshot wound treatments because she possibly didn't have full insurance and didn't want to end up buried in hospital bills for years. It's still a negligent move by her as a parent, but I can understand it. Even if the hospital cures you, dealing with the bills if you're uninsured will make you sick again. And in spite of what certain privileged people like Mitt Romney say, people do really, honest-to-god die because they didn't seek treatment because they were afraid they would end with a sizable debt as a result. And some people choose to die rather than live the rest of their lives working down the debt, or passing it on to the survivors. That alone tells you the system isn't working.

@22 Your superior attitude isn't winning you any converts, and your comment didn't really say anything other than brag about you.

@27: That almost sounds like an argument for socialized medicine. Make sure everyone has access to a primary care physician, regardless of their ability to pay. Provide good community-based preventative medical services at low or no cost. Avoid expensive treatments later when untreated conditions worsen.

It's probably something like that which explains why countries with single-payer, socialist systems - like Canada, say, or France - have better health outcomes for the population as a whole while paying significantly less per capita for health care.

The United States is already socialist.

At least, it's got socialized medical care. It's been that way for decades. @22 states it succinctly:

Hospitals are required by law to provide lifesaving treatment to everyone regardless of ability to pay.

That's socialism.

The problem is that the U.S. is socialist in a really inefficient way. The U.S. needs to make its socialism more efficient. Everybody wants that. Everybody. Even teabaggers want our socialism to be more efficient. Nobody wants our socialism to disappear. Nobody. Well, except for some people who truly do want poor people and minorities to die. But they're not really ranting against socialism. They're just racists who want to kill niggers.

@Cascadian pig butt separatist dude. Pick up the phone call any kind of treatment provider (I'll lower the bar even more for you) any at all, and try and get a price.

We'll go even lower since its you and thought processes are weak.

Just ask for a price for 15 min with a Doctor. Try and get a price.

I dare you.

@31
Yea because with the exception of decapitation, decomposition, dismemberment, and room temperature body temp they can not diagnose over the phone.

The cost of treatment depends on diagnosis and treatment plan.

To diagnose a problem there is lab work, x-rays, CT, MRI, EKG, EEG none of which can be ordered without seeing a doctor.

I am sure if you call a family clinic or GP they will give you the price of a checkup.

You are asking the equivelent of calling a mechanic and asking, "How much does it cost to fix shit?"

Personally I think the best way to lower healthcare cost would to to farm out more doctor duties to techs like GPs did with FMP's and PAC's

@30
Nailed it!

I want all people to get proper healthcare, I wouldn't work in the industry if I didn't. The current system has a lot if inefficiency and waste, on all ends. We are actively working to fix this but are quite restrained by law, regulatory bodies like The Joint Commission, and Nurses Unions, ie SEIU. There is also a HUGE issue with staff shortages, but the union prevents cross training and creating more tech positions.

@32 some states do require by law that all pricing be published and posted (online) for consumers and patients to see. Yes it would be tough to know exactly what services a potential patient would need just over the phone. But when I call my auto mechanic he tells me his hourly rate and how many hours certain jobs are billed at. In Washington state hospitals don't have to disclose shit about their pricing. But the fact that some states do require and provide pricing disclosure and still have functioning health care systems kind of destroys your argument (and that of the last clinic that sent me a bill) that it would be impossible to disclose pricing. Just post a list of all the various services available and how they are billed. Of course that's tough to do if your billing procedure is to pull numbers out of your ass based on which insurance the patient has...

@17 Whether Goldy is correct about the original woman his point still stands. Non-Americans look at your system in horror and incomprehension at the blatent price-gouging.

My experiences in the UK, New Zealand and even the neo-liberal paradise of Hong Kong are infinitely better. In Hong Kong, residents and nationals alike pay $10 US and get anything they need.

@32 some states do require by law that all pricing be published and posted (online) for consumers and patients to see. Yes it would be tough to know exactly what services a potential patient would need just over the phone. But when I call my auto mechanic he tells me his hourly rate and how many hours certain jobs are billed at. In speaking of legal hurdles, Washington state hospitals don't have to disclose shit about their pricing. But the fact that some states do require and provide pricing disclosure and still have functioning health care systems kind of destroys your argument (and that of the last clinic that sent me a bill) that it would be impossible to disclose pricing. Just post a list of all the various services available and how they are billed. Of course that's tough to do if your billing procedure is to pull numbers out of your ass based on which insurance the patient has...

There never has been a free market in anything in this nation, especially health care. Texas, if I recall correctly, has some pretty tough restrictions on nurse practitioners. Of course nurse practitioners might take some work away from doctors and that would cut into the doctor's incomes. Now we would not want that.

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