Dan, why do you only get religious when this type of shit comes up? Athiesm is good enough for all the rest of the time. Now you turn to God? Maybe FIDO should have sent along a video.
I'm a hypocrite—I've admitted it. I'm a very religious man... when I'm on airplane, and when letters about men fucking dogs arrive in the morning mail. Then I'm all...
Well, you know, Dan, even if THIS letter is fake, you were reaching out to all the dog-fuckers and want-their-boyfriends-to-be-dog-fuckers-along-with-them-too that are out there and just not writing in. It's a public service, really.
As with so many of these letters, I find myself thinking: "and I can't even meet a guy I want to see a second time; some people have all the luck."
I disagree with Dan's advice here. If true, I'd offer that she should "agree" to some horrible scenario, set it up per the horrible shitheads request, then call the cops to have him arrested for animal cruelty.
Dogs fall under the "vulnerable and unable to give informed consent" rule that applies to those populations that are too young, under coercion, imprisoned, feeble minded, etc., or in whatever situation that makes it impossible to give fully informed and appropriate consent as equals for participation in a sexual act. It is an a form of abuse.
And to think that after years of marriage and a few months being single I am unable so far to find a quality girlfriend. Apparently I have a long way to go in lowering my standards for potential mates if I choose. A long, long way.
Here's the deal. An animal can't consent. Much like children can't consent. There are very real legal reasons why marriage was not going to spread to involve those two groups.
Why on earth would you want to be with a man who has no reluctance to stick his dick in someone who doesn't want it. Do you think you will want to have children around him? Again, this is a person WHO.DOES.NOT.REQUIRE.CONSENT.TO.FUCK.A.HELPLESS.BEING.
Run away. And frankly, call the ASPCA. Good golly. If you see someone abusing and raping something, DO SOMETHING!
This woman deserves to be in this pickle. I have never been so astounded to see someone be completely unable to understand the difference between a harmless kink and animal rape.
Having trouble imagining a dog that wouldn't turn around and rip his throat out for even trying it, though.
Also, and most important, I wonder whether he is putting you at risk of arrest yourself if the authorities ever caught you with animal porn on your device or in your accounts. (I assume animal porn is illegal?) You should tell him the next time he sends you any of that shit, you are going to kick him to the curb so fast he will count himself lucky if the door is open before you put his ass through it.
Am I the only one who does not think the LW is a woman? Because - to me - the idea that the partner would want the LW to get involved in the kink with him would be to actively ... uh ... participate whereas it wouldn't be the same thing if the partner was trying to get a woman into it.
On the scale of Zero to GGG, this falls somewhere in the range of Saturn. In any case, let me add my prayers to the hope that it's a fake.
Put me in the camp of those who think the LW is not female. (Just hard to imagine the dog fetisher imagining he could in any way convince a female partner to be an active part of the kink. NOT that it actually should/would be any easier to convince a male partner, but... )
@14 I agree that it's a form of abuse, but here's the problem with your argument: Animals cannot give informed consent to being bred to another of their own kind. They cannot (and do not!) give informed consent to having their balls chopped off. They cannot (and do not) give informed consent to being imprisoned inside of houses, fenced yards, barns, pastures, etc. They cannot (and do not) give informed consent to being euthanized when they are old or sick. They cannot (and do not) give informed consent being killed and eaten.
If we care about the consent of animals, then there's a whole hell of a lot of our society that is fucked up beyond belief. Because we don't think it's appropriate to breed children or the mentally disabled together, to imprison them in crates when we go to bed at night so they don't shit on the rug, to sterilize them, to euthanize them, or to eat them.
There are a lot of good reasons not to accept dog fucking (such as their genitals are physically different from human genitals and they cannot communicate verbally, so the chances of harm to them or the human are high; psychological harm is very likely, since dogs do not have human sex drives or attitudes; behavioral problems leading to the dog being ineligible for rehoming are very likely, etc.). But if you're talking about informed consent instead of those issues, then you're either a hypocrite or else arguing that animals should be granted the legal protections human children have. Because humanity does a hell of a lot worse to animals without consent than fuck them.
Other letters have involved people wanting to be fucked or licked by a dog...Since an animal doesn't care about the ick factor of cross-species sex, and assuming the animal is happy to participate, that's a different situation.
This is clearly animal abuse.
But I want to raise a different issue. People can be fucked up in more than one way. FIDO's partner has been grooming FIDO all along: first mentioning the kink, and now pressuring FIDO to participate. If FIDO eventually agrees, that will show the asshole boyfriend that he can do anything, eventually, without FIDO leaving him. I wouldn't be surprised if there were even worse plans ahead, if FIDO (god forbid) stayed around for this.
Take care when you leave, FIDO. Don't let him know until you're all set to leave, or maybe consider letting him know after you've already left.
Zuulabelle @28, thanks for an excellent post. Your point about "behavioral problems leading to the dog being ineligible for rehoming" also applies to people who want the dog to lick or fuck them, so I just want to clarify that I don't think it's ethical to participate in sexual play with dogs. (Though it's still worse to fuck them.)
I feel like the consent argument against bestiality is pretty fragile, since we do all sorts of other things to animals without their consent, like neutering or spaying them, or killing them and eating them. I think there's a very strong argument to be made that some bestiality is serious abuse -- sticking your dick in a tiny dog or cat, if it didn't get you clawed to pieces, seems like it would be pretty painful for the animal in question, and therefore not cool. But sticking your dick in a horse or cow is a pretty different call, since, you know, farmers and vets routinely stick their entire fucking arms inside those animals, and most of us aren't opposed to that.
None of this is to be taken as an endorsement of bestiality. I just think in a lot of cases, the consent argument is rooted in prudishness rather than reason, because the arguers could give two fucks about animal consent in other walks of life.
5, etc. Every regular reader knows Dan was brought up Catholic. That programming goes deep. Why do you think religions work so hard on imprinting on babies? They may not have known the psychology behind it, but they certainly understood the outcome.
The good part is that as we mature, we can choose to overcome our programming. Dan GTFO of the church and chooses to raise his kid in an atheistic home. So what if he still likes the iconography and lapses into mentioning God once in a while. We know what he means.
Another way to look at is this: Didactic people who are desperate to pounce on anything they perceive as being inconsistent, w/o allowing for vernacular figures of speech are bores at best.
For all the discussion about animals and consent or the absence thereof: this isn't really about the animal, is it? Be honest, this is about people. We are the ones calling the shots, and we are the ones passing judgment. I'm not saying that I disagree with the advice, I'm just saying that we humans should own the issue and call it for what it is: who we do and don't want to live among, and where we draw lines about ethics and morality. All this talk about consent is just a pretext as several posters have pointed out. Some percentage of the population eats dogs, and horses, and cows and pigs - so anyone who does that (and I do eat some of the above) really have no grounds for bleating about consent. Because it's not about the animal.
Homophobia doesn't exist among animals, either.
So if you want to draw the line about sex with animals, by all means draw it. It definitely skeeves me out. But I don't think it should be illegal, I don't think it's necessarily a sign of mental illness, and I don't think it's about consent. But I do think it's a value judgment and should be owned as such. Pick it up and carry it, and stop being a hypocrite.
And right under this entry are ads for ZooTunes and Jet City Animal Clinic "Nail Trim or Gland Expression ($16.00 value) at Jet City Animal Clinic for $8.00!"
Jesus...
And I mean that in the most non-religious way possible.
@38. Actually I have no problems with Dan's hypocrisy or his atheism. I was just poking at him because it was funny. And his response was hilarious. I laughed all the way home from work, so it was more than worth the poke.
There is a valid consent argument here...the dog fucker is violating his partner's consent. His partner has explicitly stated that he does not want anything to do with that kink, that it should be enjoyed privately, and not shared. The LW needs to follow Dan's advice and DTDFA because the partner doesn't give a fuck about HIS consent. If he cannot respect that very basic boundary, what other boundaries is he going to cross?
Dogs love fucking and so do humans. Some love fucking dogs and some dogs love being fucked by humans. So what? The human race has much more important things to deal with. Like what we do to each other. Women are being raped in incredible numbers in our own military.
I typically avoid Savage Love letters, but every so often I read one. Wish I hadn't read this one.
Dan, if you have the Hump bar as 'no minors', 'no animals', and 'no s**t', then why should the bar for SL be lower?
Don't be surprised if someone forwards this to Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council for fodder for their fundraisers.
It boils down to consent. Any sexual act that involves consent (all adults, everyone involved being okay with it) is a kink. Animals cannot give consent -- nor can children, the mentally disabled, and the inebriated. Bestiality is therefore not a kink, it's a perversion.
@66: Probably some guy who believed, as Rick Santorum does, that anyone promoting gay marriage also approves of man-on-dog. In fact, for all I know, LW might in fact be Rick Santorum, still mad about "santorum" costing him his political career.
I don't know the legality of this but I would think dog fucking is illegal. By withholding knowledge of this illegal behavior could FIDO be guilty of accessory after the fact?
@72: There are no Federal animal cruelty laws ( http://www.aspca.org/Fight-Animal-Cruelt… ), and many states do not call out or recognize sexual abuse of animals, because God placed animals on earth to serve Man or something something.
Besides the moral ick factor and the cruelty to the animal, how could anyone engage in sex with someone that they know has had sex with an animal? You'd think he'd want an enema on any body part that had encountered a body part that had interacted with an animal.
This man in no way represents the other lunatics that call Colorado home. I am not going out to meet any guys for a while in fear that one of these guys are out there waiting somewhere in Uptown or Capitol Hill smelling like dog ass with a phone full of pictures to show me when we get home...
Pretty much unless you're opposing any human use of animals for anything, opposition to bestiality is rooted in the squick factor. Presuming most people are still okay with eating non-human animals, wearing their skins, using their stuffed corpses as decorations, using them to test new technologies (medicines, cosmetics, spacecraft, etc.), or keeping them as pets (especially when that bond is really strong - people who consider their pets to be like children are doing something FAR stranger in my estimation in terms of cross-species social relations than someone who likes to fuck dogs or horses), ask yourselves why those are okay but sexual behavior isn't. It's pretty much just social stigma. Shaming dog-fuckers but not burger-eaters or leather-wearers or sport hunters or a whole lot of other people that amount to a majority of our population here in USA is some hypocritical bigotry motivated by our tendency to treat sex as some sort of mystical activity that's unlike other human behaviors (which it is, just not intrinsically - that view is a function of the extant cultural discourses of sexuality). (While I agree with trying to prevent harm to non-human animals without a huge benefit to humans, I have several objections to applying any of the various human ethical systems to non-human animals, since their socializations and biologies are very different, with the possible exception of some of the great apes, and human biology and culture are what determine our ethics.)
"Let us pray..."
As with so many of these letters, I find myself thinking: "and I can't even meet a guy I want to see a second time; some people have all the luck."
...and that sounds very bad given the current discussion of human-canine bestiality.
Why on earth would you want to be with a man who has no reluctance to stick his dick in someone who doesn't want it. Do you think you will want to have children around him? Again, this is a person WHO.DOES.NOT.REQUIRE.CONSENT.TO.FUCK.A.HELPLESS.BEING.
Run away. And frankly, call the ASPCA. Good golly. If you see someone abusing and raping something, DO SOMETHING!
This woman deserves to be in this pickle. I have never been so astounded to see someone be completely unable to understand the difference between a harmless kink and animal rape.
Thanks for that.
Having trouble imagining a dog that wouldn't turn around and rip his throat out for even trying it, though.
Also, and most important, I wonder whether he is putting you at risk of arrest yourself if the authorities ever caught you with animal porn on your device or in your accounts. (I assume animal porn is illegal?) You should tell him the next time he sends you any of that shit, you are going to kick him to the curb so fast he will count himself lucky if the door is open before you put his ass through it.
On the scale of Zero to GGG, this falls somewhere in the range of Saturn. In any case, let me add my prayers to the hope that it's a fake.
If we care about the consent of animals, then there's a whole hell of a lot of our society that is fucked up beyond belief. Because we don't think it's appropriate to breed children or the mentally disabled together, to imprison them in crates when we go to bed at night so they don't shit on the rug, to sterilize them, to euthanize them, or to eat them.
There are a lot of good reasons not to accept dog fucking (such as their genitals are physically different from human genitals and they cannot communicate verbally, so the chances of harm to them or the human are high; psychological harm is very likely, since dogs do not have human sex drives or attitudes; behavioral problems leading to the dog being ineligible for rehoming are very likely, etc.). But if you're talking about informed consent instead of those issues, then you're either a hypocrite or else arguing that animals should be granted the legal protections human children have. Because humanity does a hell of a lot worse to animals without consent than fuck them.
This is clearly animal abuse.
But I want to raise a different issue. People can be fucked up in more than one way. FIDO's partner has been grooming FIDO all along: first mentioning the kink, and now pressuring FIDO to participate. If FIDO eventually agrees, that will show the asshole boyfriend that he can do anything, eventually, without FIDO leaving him. I wouldn't be surprised if there were even worse plans ahead, if FIDO (god forbid) stayed around for this.
Take care when you leave, FIDO. Don't let him know until you're all set to leave, or maybe consider letting him know after you've already left.
None of this is to be taken as an endorsement of bestiality. I just think in a lot of cases, the consent argument is rooted in prudishness rather than reason, because the arguers could give two fucks about animal consent in other walks of life.
(Another atheist agreeing with Dan: Please, god, let this be fake!)
The good part is that as we mature, we can choose to overcome our programming. Dan GTFO of the church and chooses to raise his kid in an atheistic home. So what if he still likes the iconography and lapses into mentioning God once in a while. We know what he means.
Another way to look at is this: Didactic people who are desperate to pounce on anything they perceive as being inconsistent, w/o allowing for vernacular figures of speech are bores at best.
Yes, yes, we should all be open minded and GGG and all, but fuck, people. There are limits, even to GGG. At some point sanity has to prevail.
Dog fucking should be well beyond the limits of any sane person.
Homophobia doesn't exist among animals, either.
So if you want to draw the line about sex with animals, by all means draw it. It definitely skeeves me out. But I don't think it should be illegal, I don't think it's necessarily a sign of mental illness, and I don't think it's about consent. But I do think it's a value judgment and should be owned as such. Pick it up and carry it, and stop being a hypocrite.
Jesus...
And I mean that in the most non-religious way possible.
So he didn't win everything.
If they don't respect your limits they don't respect you.
*I recall seeing it in Demon Haunted World.
Dan, if you have the Hump bar as 'no minors', 'no animals', and 'no s**t', then why should the bar for SL be lower?
Don't be surprised if someone forwards this to Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council for fodder for their fundraisers.
I picture an old lady who moved there in her twilight years without ever having gone to school in Wallingford.
@_@