Good call on that, Dan - in all the discussion of examples of "sanctity of marriage" (ie Brittney Spears, Kim Kardashian, Larry King) I'd never made the connection to prisoners with no chance of parole.

Thank you for this moving defense of traditional marriage.

"A serial murderer, a serial rapist, a Satan worshiper,..."

I thought this was the beginning of a great airplane/parachute joke. Disappointed!

I think the remarkable thing about this is, in all those years she did not write Savage Love with questions about the relationship.

At least, not that I can recall.... Dan, have you ever gotten a letter from a woman married to a serial killer on death row?

... because marriage is about uniting one dick—any dick—with one pussy.

Incorrect. Priest dicks are forbidden. Those need to stay squeaky clean for Jesus.

Ewww thanks Zebes, now I'm thinking about why Jesus wants priests' dicks to be squeaky clean. Not ew consensual sex. Ew I don't want to think about Jesus' sex life.

Exactly - brilliantly said, Dan.

@6: I think that would be "Jesus's sex life" even though the proper noun ends in an "s".
"Jesus' sex life" refers to the sex life of all those named Jesus.

"because marriage is about uniting one dick—any dick—with one pussy"

Of course, Dan, and it's because dick and pussy go together like eggs and bacon, or peanut butter and jelly, or gin and tonic, or Republicans and fucking-hypocrite-assholery.

He died of liver failure. Even though he was allowed to marry, I suppose a liver transplant for death row inmate wasn't an option.

Nice work demoralizing the country by destroying its long-standing traditions, religions, culture and history in order pave way for communism. Read ex-KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov for the complete details, including his warnings to the US about the Sovietization of the US.

Next step is to legalize the marriage of children to adults, dogs to adults, dogs to children, and so on.

Communists suck that way.

@12: You know, I don't remember communist Russia being big on gay marriage, pedophilia or bestiality. Aside from that, you really need step your game up. Lost tradition leading to a nation of debauched commies is such a Cold War-era fantasy. Keep your paranoia current, man.

@7

So true, brilliantly said. Better be brilliant, he's said virtually the same thing countless times already. Watch out, in 6 months his Marriage Message will be so fucking brilliant it will hurt your eyes. I lean toward masochism on the S/M scale, so hey, gotta be excited. 3 cheers for Savagery!

Tex Watson, who fucking slaughtered Sharon Tate and her unborn baby, was allowed to marry while in prison, had conjugal visits, and fathered three or four kids. Ted Bundy married while in prison and fathered a child.

If marriage is so fucking "sacred" then why the fuck are we tarnishing it by allowing serial killers to marry.

Oh, yeah. Because the Supreme Court ruled that prisoners have a fucking legal right to marry. Murderers have more rights than law-abiding gay couples.

@12, I agree with @13. You aren't really representing the bigoted douchebaggery of today. It needs more victim complex and a whole lot more Jesus and something something religious freedoms. Pinko commie panic isn't really relevant anymore.

@13 and 16: that's because 12 is "metatrolling" he's totes cray that way.

@13... seems you don't know your history. The Bolsheviks believed "out with the old, in with the new." Same goes for communist China and all the other communist regimes. Anyone who stood for the old ways was promptly run over. Any religion or tradition is put aside and replaced with the new belief system.

Why do you think (ancient) Tibetan Buddhism is such a threat to communist China, for example?

Study your history or be forever ignorant.

@13 and other like-minded simpletons... The exact name of the political movement you are apparently trying to "protect" is called "COMMUNITARIANISM." This was a word originally coined by the United Nations.

The two financial arms of the UN are the World Bank (created by Keynes and White -- two communists) and the IMF (corrupt as hell). Communitarianism is a cross between capitalism and communism. This is the most-efficient political structure by which private central bankers are able to maintain their power and control over the world financial system. Recall that there 162 private central banks worldwide, one in nearly EVERY country.

Communism is alive and well, despite your ignorance of how the world works and also history.

"...freelance magazine editor..." That's not a thing, is it?

@18 and @19: And gay marriage has what to do with this? I'm fairly certain the 162 private central banks of the world didn't spontaneously appear when Vermont legalized same-sex unions. By the way, several college professors of mine have pointed out that communism and communitarianism were not truly practiced in China and the Soviet Union but rather fascism (ridiculously) trumpeted as socialism. Maintaining a rigid, unilateral social control over citizens is a primary component of fascism, which was- as often as bullshit perversions of socialist theory- yoked to tradition and old belief systems with the false assertion that the state could either fulfill its destiny or be restored to its former glory if its former values were reestablished.

You know, that last bit kind of sounds like you. Gosh, what could that mean?

I love the crazy that Dan's posts attract.

@18, 19: Jesus. It's like sgt. doom, Cascadian Bacon, and SeattleBlues got together and had a hate-baby.

@23: There's also some Santorum in there. Literally and figuratively.

#23 - to be fair, sgt.doom never struck me as particularly hate-filled, just delusional and paranoid.

@20- You never grab a copy of Seattle Met while you're waiting in the checkout line, whip out a red Sharpie (fine tip, please!) and begin correcting the stories? I do it all the time. Then I send those cheap bastards a bill.

I always point out when anti-gay folks talk about how straight parents are so much better than gay ones that ever IF that were true, that's the wrong standard.

You have to prove that the very best gay parents are worse for kids and for society than the worst of the straight people who are allowed to marry under the current standards.

The bar that is set by allowing convicted death-row serial killers to marry is insanely low. I think that the vast majority of gay couples manage to surpass that with very little effort.

Siddha: You are dementedly off topic and sound completely bananas. It's a wonder you don't type everything in all caps. I sincerely hope you're just a goofball troll stirrin' shit up because if you're for real, you're probably not having a fun life.

@ Siddha You forgot to mention the Jews. What about all those damn pinko Jews running the world from Swiss banks?
I bet when Goldy posts something you don't forget the anti-semitism.

Reality is more than the last book you read.

Communism requires the methodical destruction of the old ways and traditions (in the US, this now includes heterosexual marriage, which loses its traditional meaning when gays can now legally marry), in order to clear the way for the new power regime.

Note how on the Slog forums that the following are under attack on a regular basis --

-- Organized religion (Catholic, Christian, Muslim, etc.)
-- The family unit and mariage
-- The US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, which is now deemed "out-dated"
-- Freedom of travel by individual citizens (use your bike, not your car)

Also note that military institutions such as Centcom now regularly employ what are called "sock puppets." These are military personnel who leverage software that allows them to create seemless, multiple fake personalities online. This allows them to fabricate and control public consensus opinion, in forums such as this one (see posted replies, above).

This is part of a larger, ongoing social engineering (manufacturing consent) effort by such institutions as the Tavistock Institute of Human Relations in London, UK, which receives more than $6 billion annually from taxpayers.

Tavistock has literally dozens of associated like-minded institutions devoted to other branches of research. For example, in Rainier, WA, resides a branch office of the A. K. Rice Institute For the Study of Social Systems. This organization is devoted to the study of group dynamics.

This research is later used by governments or private entities to manufacture consent through the mass media as well in forums such as this one.

The truth hurts, don't it? You want to continue playing? The rabbit hole does go deeper.

@30: So everyone's a drone and a droid except you? This is what happens when narcissism and paranoia collide. The rabbit hole only goes deeper up your own ass.

In Communist Russia marriage gays you.

I admit it: I am a Centcom sock puppet. I would have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for you meddling kid.

@33: Now seize him, you fool!

@30 Dude, SGT Doom is gonna be piiiiiissed if he catches you meddling on his turf. He handles the "bat-shit insane" beat for Slog, and while it's not always the most easy to follow fellow (he has a few lucid days here and there), at least he's not actively hating.

The US Supreme Court has ruled on 14 separate occasions that marriage is a fundamental right -- including ruling that even inmates on death row cannot be denied the right to marry (though they can be denied conjugal visits, but only if they're on death row).

If an inmate can be denied conjugal visits but cannot be denied the right to marry, then clearly the courts have already acknowledged that procreation is not an intrinsic part of marriage. The current SCOTUS will probably sidestep the issue for the time being in favor of a narrower ruling, but a future one probably will agree that same-sex couples cannot be denied marriage allowed to similarly situated opposite sex couples.

Also, @Siddha, while Communist Russia was anti-religion, it was also virulently homophobic. Gay people were routinely thrown into gulags. Your attempt to marry the two -- pun intended -- is flat out false.

THREAD DERAILED.

Anyone who brings a child into the world with the stigma of being fathered by an imprisoned serial killer has some serious psychological issues.

1. Doreen Lioy is far more stupid than any literate person has any business being.

2. Life is more pleasant if one considers a certain metatroll to be a strawman planted to create a case for marriage equality.

Dear Siddha, children cannot consent to marry adults, dogs cannot consent to marry humans, but adults can consent to marry other adults. That's why your argument fails.

@8, no, that would be Jesuses'. The plural of Jesus is Jesuses, the possessive is indicated with an apostrophe, but not another s because there are too many already -- "Jesuses's" hurts the eye. The possessive of a single Jesus, Jesus's, is OK though.

Siddha, stormfront.org is thataway.

@37 It doesn't matter what it takes to demoralize a society to pave the way for communism. Gay or not gay, the IDEOLOGICAL SUBVERSION, the DEMORALIZATION, is what matters. Don't get caught in the weeds. You need to read Yuri Bezmenov's writings and also view his interviews, on this topic.

Here is a small sample --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnP…

Former Bengals cheerleader Sarah Jones is engaged to the student she had a relationship with while she was a teacher at Dixie Heights High School.

According to the Facebook pages for Jones and Cody York, the couple got engaged on Thursday. Photos feature the couple kissing and a ring on Sarah's left hand and the words 'Marry Me' written in the sand.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/fo…

What Siddha doesn't register is that is that we already allow citizens to register with husbands and wives. All marriage equality is is allowing all citizens to do what some citizens could already do - simple equality.

This is very different from allowing ANY citizen to do what NO ciizn is allows to do, i.e. legally register with 'children' or dogs.

When the Vulcans arrive we can revisit interspecies dating, the same when we return to the Biblical age of consent of 12 for girls and 13 for boys. Until then it has nothing to do with treating all citizens the same - you can register with a wife so can everyone else, ditto a husband.

I wonder if we can count on Mark Regnerus to do a parenting study proving that serial killers make better parents than gay people. I'll stay tuned...

@43: The end of slavery and the Civil Rights Movement were also ideological subversions, at least according to you. Does that make them Communist plots as well? Hell, the Civil War left half the country demoralized, but they were racist ideologues (most of whom cited the Bible as evidence of their righteousness) so, frankly, they deservedly found themselves on the wrong side of history. The progression towards full and equal citizenship for all Americans may be painful and temporarily destabilizing, but it is necessary if the idea of America is to mean anything. Something's seriously off when human decency under the law is read as socialist conspiracy.

@8 Actually, that would be Jesuses' sex life.

Siddha: You are woefully ignorant of Communism. Go back and read your Marx and then explain how true Communism in any way resembles the dictatorship that Lenin started and Stalin continued. Your paranoia smacks of delusion; your analysis reeks of ignorance.

@ 23, 31, 33, 34, 35, 36: The Central Committee of the Peoples' Democratic Revolutionary Socialist Republic of Wining Troll-Feeding

Long live the Revolution!

... and how is it "the death penalty" when they live long enough to die on Death Row?

@50: Ironically enough, by drawing attention to how many people have responded to the troll, you are in fact feeding the troll. Whining is spelled with a "H", BTW.

I just wanted to post that the plural of "Jesus" is "Jesuses," and so the possessive of the singular would, in fact, be "Jesus's" or "Jesus'," depending on which style guide you're using. But now I know way too much about Bolshevism.

Christ. I'm sorry I bothered.

Siddha -

Don't get caught in the weeds. You need to read Yuri Bezmenov's writings and also view his interviews, on this topic.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing, though? You caution against a "narrow" view in which acknowledging the anti-gay prejudices of the Bolshevik revolution (which held erotic variation--indeed, the very notion of sexual pleasure--to be a bourgeois luxury) somehow blinds us to the Bolshevik disdain for established institutions. But if we broaden our views enough, even you are caught up in your own weeds.

For instance, the theocracies of Europe also operated out of disdain for the institutions over which they rode roughshod. The clans of the (pagan) British isles were dispersed and silenced; new emphasis on the nuclear family narrowed the parameters of the obligation of the extended family and the village to the good of the community and replaced it with a centralized hierarchy in which the authority of the church could wield power over the moral comportment of the citizenry without taking on any responsibility for their material well-being. In many cases, they dismantled polygamist systems to replace them with monogamous ones.

The question, then, is whether you see these as "attacks" on the family as it previously existed.

As a Nichiren Buddhist, I'm not particularly hostile to organized religion; I just think it's a terrible blueprint for governance, as there can be no true freedom of religion without free exercise of irreligion and vigorously defended right to moral self-determination.

@54 I seem to remember that the original clans of pagan Britain were overrun by the equally not-Christian Romans. Then there were some Angles and Saxons going on. The Romans were very monogamist themselves, though they allowed divorce. Let's blame the Church for stuff that it actually did, not for stuff that happened before it was even around.

As for governance, the U.S. has done extremely well with a separate church and state, and there's no sense arguing with results. Only one civil war in two hundred years. I'm liking it.

@55 - A good portion of Rome's interests in the British Isles were prosecuted well after Constantine. In general, my point still stands.

That said, certainly the tribes warred amongst themselves, and were no strangers to violence from non-Christian sources. The point is not that only Christians can commit such violence, but that they are as capable of it as, say, Bolsheviks, and that, furthermore, monolithic institutions (Rome, for instance, in its pagan or Christian incarnations) have always succeeded by undermining the essential structures of what came before.

On the matter of governance, we appear to agree.