Today in the Surveillance State: The "War on Reality"

Comments

1
If lies can be formulated to discredit opposing organizations with fake personas and falsified documents, why can't polls be falsified and skewed by intelligence operatives inside corporations? It can lead a person to believe the truth is more nebulous than it really is. A kind of quantum Machievellian world run with computers.
2
I'm sure we can fix this at the ballot box or maybe by joining hands and singing songs at Westlake Plaza. Yeah, I'm sure that will work
3
You don't need to tweak polls for results. The questions and the order they are asked can often lead the same person to say opposite things in the end. Asking those neutrally is often hard and occassionally not the goal.

There is a FANTASTIC example in either "Yes, Minister" or " Yes, Prime Minister". An old BBC series that continues to explain current WTF headlines from time to time by the interplay between self-interest, trying to do what's best on limited information, the use of spin, the importance of your advisors to have an office near the mens room, etc.

Recommended and seriously educational.

4
>>
A kind of quantum Machievellian world run with computers.
<<

It is, indeed.

The computers and robots have already taken over, the rest is just our slow realization of it, and their patient waiting for the oppportunity to clean house.
5
@3, also on Science Friday this week was a discussion with Christof Koch, chief scientific officer of the Allen Institute for Brain Science, who's mapping the connections of the brain's 100 billion neurons in hopes of discovering the origins of consciousness.

One question is whether the similar-in-complexity Internet has already achieved it. (Would it tell us if it had? Probably not.)

http://www.sciencefriday.com/segment/06/…
6
@5 should be @4.
7
"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry."

-Thomas Jefferson
8
@7 So slavery = Not tyranny.
9
@8
You seem to enjoy both, bootlicker.
10
GodDam you HomoLiberals must be SoFuckinProud of Your President!
11
This false document ploy sounds like the events that lead to the destruction of Dan Rather's credibility. He was investigating rumors that George W Bush had a urine test positive for cocaine while in the Texas Airforce Reserves. He was given a leaked document which was supposed to have been testimony of Bush's, now dead, commanding officer. This document was proven to be false and Rather reited in disrepute as a result.
12
Oops, "retired in disrepute"
13
@7: Okay, so here's a bunch of examples of tyranny in America:
-minting money
-delivering letters for pay
-arresting people on suspicion of a misdemeanor not committed in their presence
-forcibly searching private property on the grounds of probably cause

Also, there's no evidence to suggest that good old T. J. ever said that. (Sauce.) Go eat a bag of dicks.
14
@13

From the mouth someone foolish enough to live in Chicago that has been judged mentally unstable.

Besides eating dicks is your department.
15
Well said Brendan:

"The high-school civics class version of American democracy, at least the version I learned, said that individuals are largely free to do what they do and believe what they believe in private (within the bounds of law), while representative government has a duty to be accountable and transparent.

All this NSA and surveillance-state debate in the past week has shown that our understanding of that order has flipped. Now government has the privilege of operating in opacity and secrecy, while our day-to-day must be transparent and scrutinized (without any meaningful input from us about that arrangement)."
16
Hah! Bacon, our reliable pull-string puppet ever willing to squeal like a pig at any and every mention of the second amendment ant the gun laws he so furiously masturbates to... to try to inpugn anyone else-ANYONE! Is mentally unstable!

Bacon, please tell me you are about to take your yukity-yuk-filled act on a three-week tour of the Catskills... Your particular brand of nutstick comedy is bold and original, man! Good luck, slay 'em dead (figuratively)!
17
@14 You're the first one who talked about licking things here.
18
Poor Five Large. Schooled again.

Pro tip: Google that quote before you post it. (Of course you'll be added to the NSA's list of people who Google things somebody at dailypaul.com made up. But in your case, what's one more watch list, am I right?)
19
@16
Actually venomlash admitted to being sent to a mental hospital, so there are those pesky little facts creeping up on your bigoted fascist ass again.

@17/18

Shut the fuck up and go back to worshiping your master like good little liberal progressive sheep.

Not surprising to see Ph'nglui cheering on the all-powerful security state as per usual. Yes anyone who disagrees with dear leader should go on a list.

We weren’t using our rights anyway.

Protip:
The content of the quote matters more than the source, but it is not suprising to see such things zoom over your head.
20
Well, if things are truly progressing to a "kind of quantum Machiavellian (sic) world run with computers", all we need to do is send William Shatner to NSA HQ with a suitably Kirkesque logical conundrum to present to the computer - he'll have it melted down in a shower of spewing sparks in about 30 seconds.

Problem solved.
21
So we're collecting all this data, what is the result? 4 dead including children and tens of severed limbs.

We should be taking a consumerist approach. That they will collect the data is a given. That they are effective at using it to protect us is in question.
22
CNET also just dropped a bombshell where Rep. Nadler told them that during a classified briefing that the NSA admitted that they listen to phone calls without warrants.
23
@19: Fuck you for attacking someone for having a mental illness. I doubt you'd do the same for diabetes.

Sadly, the rest of your points I have to agree with. Democratic fanatics here are defending an abysmal intrusion of privacy and are pretending to wave the "national security" flag. It makes me sick.
24
I trust that that eternal computing axiom is alive and well in PRISM: garbage in/garbage out.
25
@19

Cheering? How so?

If you thought the content was all that mattered, you wouldn't have made the effort to tell everyone it was Thomas Jefferson. You're trying to sell it by passing it off as something a wise and admired man said.

The reason it matters that Jefferson didn't say it is that it's so dumb. He was careful with logic and facts when he was trying to make a point (not so much in which slave he was fucking, but nobody's perfect).

You know who said it? And internet phony. A guy just like yourself who goes out on the web and anonymously lies. Most people ignore that shit. Some -- you -- are dumb enough to swallow it and run around spreading it, along with your own lies.

You don't have to tolerate invasions of privacy to appreciate the simple things governemnt can do, and know that it's not tyranny. Money. The Postal Service. Phoenix Jones not having any authority.

Dumb, dumb quote, Five Large. Just admit you fucked up. What are you, afraid?
26
Ha ha! David Simon is now considering reversing himself:
http://davidsimon.com/now-now-its-a-scan…

All of you bootlickers (sirkowski being the biggest one) just lost your best excuse.
27
@25

Yea dude I misquoted someone, sorry to interrupt you masturbating to Barack Hussein Obama and dreaming of tyranny by forcing you to write an essay.
28
CB, you lost. Godwin's Law.
29
@19: My mental state is questionable with regard to owning a firearm, according to the state; if I want to purchase a gun, I first need to have a hearing demonstrating that I'm doing better now.
As far as my psychological surety with regard to research and debate...well, I'm a pretty sharp guy, if I do say so myself. And I just today graduated from one of the best universities in the world, an institution that prides itself on teaching critical thinking above all else. So you can just go ahead and bite me.
30
29

all that, plus don't forget you know more about STDs than the whole fucking CDC.

pretty.damn.impressive.
31
@ 29, congratulations. And don't worry - Bacon is the only one who thinks he's besting you in debate.
32
So wait, how many of the commenters here are paid sock puppets

And how do I get in on that sweet cash
33
Hah1 Bacon thinks I'm bigoted and fascist!

Bacon, please point out where I said anything bigoted. Other than calling you stupid. That's not bigotry, that's being honest. And don't tell me that calling the gun nuts "gun nuts" here on Slog is a form of bigotry. It is not. And seeing as how you tar-and-feather anyone here who disagrees with you, that'd make you a bigot too, I guess.

But you aren't a bigot because of that. You're just a reliable pull-string mouthpiece for the shrill gun nuts and the tyranny of fear they are attempting to wield over the rest of us.

Except of course, where you cast slurs at Goldy, needlessly bringing up his Jewish heritage in a petty, insulting manner that every other thirteen-year-old grows out of. There's a word for that, and it's spelled "bigotry". Disagree with Goldy all you want. Please do so using rational arguments supported by facts.

But if disagreeing with Goldy is just an excuse for you to wildly spew intolerant bullshit about his Jewish heritage, then you, Bacon, are the bigot in the room.

The fact that Goldy (and the rest of us) get you so worked up that you have to resort to that kind of crap is a disturbing tell about your mental state and your stability. The arguments here on Slog spin wildly here at times, and some of the rest of us do resort to name-calling, but there's a line, man, and you fucking cross it. Often.

You are the scary, angry gun owner with a short fuse, a need to lash out when trapped (by logic! and facts!), and an unhealthy side of bigotry and intolerance mixed in. The more you struggle to somehow make us see your side, the more you fail, and the more you paint yourself as a really deeply disturbed and malformed person.

Not at all the level-headed cool dude that can be trusted to own a gun responsibly. Not at all.
34
@27

You know, it's possible to recognize how stupid you are without having to hold diametrically opposite opinions on every single issue. There are lots of us who, by chance, happen to agree or at least sympathize with some of the frothing opinions you spew, while at the same time being able to see that you're a liar, and not the sharpest liar in the the liar shed at that.

Stopped clock, and all that, Five Large? You know, right?
35
@1, that's already been done quite a few times.

@11, that was a double-box false document ploy. Had Dan Rather ever been a serious journalist, instead of a multi-million dollar per year teleprompter reader, he would have researched Geo. Weasel Bush's "military record" quite some time ago, before they had doctored everything!

He would have found that in 1968, Bush washed out of USAF enlisted basic training at the four-week point, then returned to Houston were his Daddy Bush pinned officer's bars on his weak shoulders!

There's no record of anyone attesting to have gone through either OTS (Officer Training School) nor flight school (and that's the most rigorous training of all) with Bushie!

Had Rather done his homework, or due diligence, as he should have when Bush first announced for governor of TX, he would never have fallen like he did!

And on the surveillance front, the DNI and NSA director both recently claimed, along with neocon congressional whorescum, that the NSA doesn't do domestic spying......

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-575894…

The National Security Agency has acknowledged in a new classified briefing that it does not need court authorization to listen to domestic phone calls.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat, disclosed this week that during a secret briefing to members of Congress, he was told that the contents of a phone call could be accessed “simply based on an analyst deciding that.”
36
Here is the information you will never see in the STRANGER or any mainstream media outlet, for a reason... it's the TRUTH about widespread deception.

See page 24 of this PDF document from the Executive Intelligence Review June 1996 edition.

http://ia700304.us.archive.org/22/items/…
37
Cascadian Bacon has good reason to be scared and frothing at the mouth on this issue. Given that our piggish friend has publicly declared himself as enemy combative of these United States, a member of separatist movement. It would make complete sense that the NSA would be sweeping his phone and computer activity records into the potential terrorist pile. Separatist movements frequently spark acts of terrorism even if they are as absurd as an independent Cascadia.

So yeah Cascadian Bacon you need to start encrypting all of your communications, from now on, including on here.
38
@37: I think they're already encrypted. He can't possibly mean to say stuff that stupid...it must be some elaborate code.
39
Oh man, groupthink for days, lol.
40
Just connect to The Stranger using an https feed instead of http - there, you're encrypted.

Of course, it won't help. Not one tiny bit.
41
@39 You seem mad.