Anti-Gay Christians Conservatives Confront their Cheeseburger Moment

Comments

2
It seems that a lot of religions go through a sort of growing up cycle:

1. Starting small and cultish, they try to get as many followers as possible and are mostly annoying rather than demanding.

2. As they get larger, they become more militant and former annoying requests to join them instead become demands on pain of death.

3. At full size, they become less violent as they want to project a "we're peaceful" vibe. Joining them now is more a matter of when, rather than if, as they hold powerful positions and pass themselves down through generations.

4. Growing older, they become almost inclusive and rejecting of new members as "not TRUE members, not BLOOD members."

If you think about it in todays world, the Jewish are at stage 4, Christian at stage 3, Islam at 2, and, I dunno... Mormons? at stage 1? Scientologists?

Maybe not. Probably my "analysis" is way too simplistic. Interesting how religions evolve though.
3
#2 Ms Forka, very interesting comment. I'm impressed. And religions go through these stages with the support of some "secular" government that they endorse as being from God.
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Ms. Forka is very definitely a guy, Sargon. I've even got photos to prove it.
5
2, How does your timeline compare to the history of the Sikhs?

Throughout the article, I kept thinking of the punchline, "It's better than pork, isn't it?"
6
@2: The cycle is more like

1) when not in power preach peace

2) when in power fuck over everyone else

Repeat as needed.
7
@1, the people who say their opposition has nothing to do with religion are the same dumb fucks who say, with a straight face that "intelligent design" isn't religious in nature. It strikes me as intellectually dishonest that Rick Santorum et al would advance the argument that their beliefs have nothing to do with their faith. We already know they want to govern according to the Bible; why be cloak and dagger about it? It's one thing to be opposed to gay marriage because of religion; it's quite another to make everyone else live by your religious code. Even Christians wouldn't want to be governed by Christianity.
8
I also answer to Dr. Forka.
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@7 The do it because they are deluded enough to think it will appeal to a much broader group of people.

And ultimately, they know that "because the bible..." isn't a logical argument so they need to go through all sorts of mental contortions and gymnastics so that THEY can even believe it.
10
This goes out to the world. Hear it world! Hear freedom. America is not a theocracy. It may be predominately Christian but it does not discriminate against gay people. Do you hear this trumpet call of freedom? You young who long for a life free from death if you dare to express your love? It calls to you. It pulls at your heart. Freedom is the sound heard round the world!
12
@1 Savvy religious fundies know that they need to hide their religious views behind a facade of secular tradition, values, and pseudoscience.

We see this a lot with those trying to shove creationism into science textbooks. They don't use 'religion' when talking about it, just fake science by fake scientists to try to pretend that there's data enough for a debate.

13
There's a tiny, tiny thread of history that supports the notion that Christianity is the subject of repression. That's all these charlatans have left in the way of an argument against permitting secular marriage for all. In a nation where there's been a Christian majority since we exterminated most of the Native Americans (hey, fella, wanna nice warm blanket?), it's a ludicrous notion. Churches are tax-exempt. No federal, state, local or property taxes. Donations to the churches are tax deductible. Ministers get some interesting tax treatment, too. They can show up anywhere with signs saying any hateful thing (hi, Westboro!). They can incarcerate and indoctrinate their kids and teach them any nonsense they want.

The practice of religion remains as unrepressed as ever. The one right they don't have... the one right they never had, is to make the outside world conform to their prejudices. Nor have they ever had the right to not be criticized. Criticism is not the same as repression. Repression is being denied civil rights, having your property seized, being discriminated against in hiring and housing, being imprisoned, being executed. You know, like Christians did to Jews in Europe. Or Puritans did to Quakers in Massachusetts. That's repression.
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@8: Dr. Forka, we need more insightful commentary on religions STAT!
15
All religion is stupid. Pork? Cheeseburgers? Who cares? I'm calling bullshit on your stupid beliefs.
16
@2,

Oh, Mormons are way more advanced (backwards?) than that! They too consider converts and non-whites lesser or not-real Mormons.
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@8) The Reverend Mister SeƱor Doctor Love Forka!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_the_righ…
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@16,
Agreed, but they've come a long way in the last 20 years or so. When I was a young'un they were still using their really desperate attempts to get anyone to listen to them. Now that they've got some national coverage, they're puffing their chests out more. Also, the non-white thing is more a racist legacy of Joseph Smith than of a feeling of inclusiveness. Most Jews I know, for example, don't dislike non Jews and are happily friendly, but they still consider themselves "chosen" and everyone else not.

I can't think of any other insightful religious commentary at the moment... sorry VL. Although I will say that in Monty Python's Life of Brian, during the "Blessed are the meek" speech, John Cleese's character gives a deliciously biting response: "What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."

True dat!
19
The premise sounds weird, but it proves to be a good comparison once you keep reading. Thanks for sharing that, Dan.
20
@18 The whole 'chosen' thing is one of the most widely misunderstood concepts about Judaism. Jews do not believe that we're chosen to be better than anyone else. Instead, some Jews teach each other that we're chosen to do a particular and rather onerous task, which is to keep various laws. That's it, that's what's "chosen" about Jews.

Unfortunately, this phrase has been misinterpreted by powerful gentiles throughout history, with terrible results.