Comments

1
This won't last long.
2
What if he decides he's a cat next week, do we have to start calling him a pussy?
3
Don't know about that, Dom. It took them years to bring themselves to call torture, "torture."
4
Admittedly, there is a little cognitive dissonance to overcome, when I've been used to thinking of Bradley Manning as "he" for the last few years. I have to actively force myself to change the gender I think of Manning in my mind. So I sorta understand that reporters probably go through the same thing.

That said, for a progressive news agency to set such a blanket policy is utterly ridiculous. I would expect this from Faux News, but not NPR. This is fucked up.
5
How about just using "traitor"?
6
"progressive news agency"

Really? Can I have my tax dollars back then?
7
You consider that draconian? NPR using the wrong pronoun?

Perhaps that would be better applied to the 35 year prison sentence he received. Yes, that's right. I used he. Not because I have a problem with him coming out as transgender, but because I have a problem with you referring to not using someone's preferred gender pronoun as "draconian."
8
NPR is constantly in the crosshairs of the lunatic right. Maybe they're just being completely chickenshit on this issue to avoid...

Wait. WTF are they avoiding? The lunatic right still wants to fuck them up.
9
Gender is not JUST physical, but it is the predominant indicator of gender.

That would be like saying race is not JUST your heritage.

Can I be an African-American because it's the way I feel or am? Even if I was born to white parents, with no African heritage or ancestry? (Well, other than the start of the human race that is).
10
Calm the fuck down Paul. Legally, medically, and genetically, Chelsea Manning is still a man (has his name even been legally changed from Bradley to Chelsea?). Is it so unreasonable to refer to him using male pronouns at least until the medical part of sexual/gender reassignment begins?
11
You seem to forget how outer-space weird transgenderism is to a lot of people, including a lot of NPR listeners/readers. They're just following the "if it looks like a duck" philosophy, it's not aggression.
12
Being transgender is a fucking biological reality of the way you are born and the desire for corrective surgery (or not!) is a small fucking part of the whole fucking process! Fuck them.

And that anyone can think this is some fucking ploy to make things easier for Chelsea? Fuck them too.

But hopefully the best of this will be a big trans-education for all involved?
13
Half the men on Slog are proof you can have a cock and balls and still not be a man.
14
@10 Yes, it's unreasonable.
15
Anthony Weiner--Ahead of his time.
16
Somehow I don't see this moving things forward for transgender people in general. Chelsea Manning is going to be the poster child for those who would portray transgender people as too psychologically damaged to hold sensitive positions.

I don't know what the standard is for news agencies to use the name that somebody prefers versus the name on their birth certificate. NPR refers to celebrities like Dr. Dre by his stage name rather than calling him Andre Young.
17
@12 there isn't anything biological about transgenderism, it's mental.
18
My list of top things in this world I don't give a shit about:

1) Israel
2) Palestine
3) Which gender NPR calls Manning

19
Barely a month ago, NPR ran that story about the fluidity of gender and how young folks are redefining gender categories and pronouns. This new decree is very much at odds with the message of that piece.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story…

Money Quote: "We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer. And, in fact, I reject the gender binary as an oppressive move by the dominant culture."
20
NBC's Today, USA TODAY, The Boston Globe, Politico, CNN, Fox, the New York Daily News, the New York Post, the Daily Beast, the Los Angeles Times and The New York Times are using the masculine pronoun.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio…
21
@19 this just in, high schoolers go way out into weirdo land to try and be unique and it's really easy to find high school kids with weird philosophies for money quotes.

That is not the zeitgeist of society. Look, I'm all for being cool with transgender people, but a vast majority of people, gay or straight or bi, still identify as male or female. Sexuality is one thing, but we're not gravitating toward a society where gender itself is fluid. It's just not a remotely common issue.
22
Whether Manning likes it or not, he is going to be a "he" at least until he's released from Leavenworth. That's just the way it is.
23
My recollection from Gender Studies courses was that "gender" is a social construct, independent of your genital configuration. "Sex" is biological and fixed at birth: you can get surgery, but your DNA will always be "male" or "female", except for those super rare chromosomal abnormalities. If "Bradley Manning" wishes to now be considered a "she", then it's a done deal: Chelsea's a she.
24
@23 What if he wants to be called a zebra? Do we fawn over his pretty stripes?
25
Not such Polite Republicans after all.
26
#21: You are absolutely 100% wrong.

In the past 3 years, four countries (New Zealand, Australia, India, and, as of the past week, Germany) have begun allowing a third gender "X" on official documents (passports, birth certificates, etc).

Over the past 10 years, almost all liberal democracies have begun allowing gender change on official documents, most of them regardless of genitals. File:World_concerning_gender_identity-expression_laws.png">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_…

Over the past 4 months, Portland and Philadelphia passed laws requiring gender-neutral restrooms for all public facilities. Expect Seattle and other cities/countries around the world to follow. http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/06/13/th…

This is definitely the zeitgeist of society. Expect changes to draconian binary views of gender to change as quickly as gay acceptance, anti-discrimination, civil unions, and marriage happened around the world.

Here's a listicle-ish Buzzfeed primer for those who want to spend 4 minutes catching up with the zeitgeist. http://www.buzzfeed.com/sbkasulke/everyt…
27
NPR and the rest of the media outlets are just plain ignorant, as is much of their audience. The fact is that many transpersons never get surgery "down there." Indeed, transgender/gender dysphoria is a spectrum, and specialists in that field (medical psychological etc) all know that the treatment that transpersons need to feel right inside can range from growing/cutting their hair, to hormones, to surgery of one kind or another to a combination. Many transpeople do not know when they begin to transition exactly how far they will need to take it. And by surgery I do not exclusively mean surgery "down there." NPR's editorial policy is ignorant and offensive. What a bunch of cowardly dopes. (There's also a good chunk of ignorance showing here on Slog, but that's not generally a surprise).
28
My first link for world gender identity change laws broke. Hopefully this works. Blue = legal gender change law passed. Red = no law passed. Grey = no info.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co…
29
Just in case anybody is interested...you can contact NPR with your feelings on the matter at http://help.npr.org/npr/includes/custome… . I directed mine to their Ombudsman. Their naughtiness filter wouldn't accept my message until I removed the words "penis" and "boob job," but I think I still got my point across.
30
@26

That does not make me wrong. They are allowing those "third gender" things to accomodate the fractionally small but still present citizenry who identify in such a way. That does not mean that society at large is shifting to gender-fluidity at large. The changes happening are still being taken advantage of by a very small number of people, because a very small number of people actually identify with gender roles different from the thangs that dangle.

And "draconian binary views of gender"? Look, if you don't identify with the gender corresponding to your genitals, you're the odd one out, not the rest of society. That doesn't mean society's out to get you. Just don't expect society to stop identifying itself in a way appropriate to 98% of the people out there just so you don't get bothered. That's kind of selfish.

What's wrong with continuing the perfectly normal gender binary while making accomodations for the few who don't fit into it?
31
How about when Manning legally changes hir name to Chelsea, that seems legit. I wouldn't expect my credit card company or the DMV to call me "treacle" until I legally change it, why should we expect news outlets to do any differently?

I mean, I feel for him and everything. Shit's gotta be tough feeling like you're a woman in a man's body, in the army, in jail for 10-35 years. But until he actually-factually changes his name, the name 'Chelsea' is only of any real standing to hirself, hir family & friends, and any online avatars s/he may have.

Draconian? Hyperbolic.
32
Isn't there the issue of what Bradley Manning did versus what Chelsea Manning does/will do? That seems like an important distinction from a reporting standpoint. How is that usually handled? The only real precedent we have of a famous person transitioning is Chastity/Chaz Bono, and Chastity didn't have much of a public life, did she?
33
#30: You can (and many have) said those exact same things about gay people, and heteronormativity. It has to be a change to the culture at large to make people safe in society, and while bigotry is acceptable right now, just like anti-gay bigotry was acceptable here a few years ago and still is in some places (Jamaica, Russia, church). If you want to cling to the gender binary, just enjoy it while it lasts.

Meanwhile, despite basic laws protecting transgender people, another transgender person was murdered in NYC over the weekend. Another victim of the cultural gender binary.

http://gothamist.com/2013/08/23/transgen…

There's a reported hate crime murder of a transgender person nearly every other day.

http://www.transrespect-transphobia.org/…
34
@17 Spoken from...experience? Vast research? Anyways...the brain IS a physical thing. Right? Part of the body as a whole...a pretty important one I think.

Hormone therapy is so effective for transgender individuals...and more than just the outward physical changes that we so obsess over.

Try taking a high dose of estrogen and testosterone suppressant (if you're a male type person) and live with that for awhile...see how it feels. Then maybe you might understand something of what it means to be transgender...having gone through a puberty that fucks everything up (though at least you'll know why things feel so wrong).

35
@33 don't try to drag me into the homophobic pool. You didn't actually offer a counterargument. Try again.
36
Taking ignorance around this issue as a given, it seems to me that the best way to respond to all of this is from a calm, educational standpoint, rather than an upset, offended, angry standpoint. The fact is, trans-issues are a lot less common/visible than gay-issues in our society. People need time, but they will be more likely to come over to your side if you give them the details, let the newness sink in until it becomes normal, and don't have a knee jerk, "you're all bigots" approach.
37
Taking ignorance around this issue as a given, it seems to me that the best way to respond to all of this is from a calm, educational standpoint, rather than an upset, offended, angry standpoint. The fact is, trans-issues are a lot less common/visible than gay-issues in our society. People need time, but they will be more likely to come over to your side if you give them the details, let the newness sink in until it becomes normal, rather than having a knee jerk, self-riteous, "you're all bigots" approach.
38
#34: Also, there are real-life actual brain scans showing physical differences between transgender and cisgender people. We're not far away from a physical test for transgender people, even though I don't think it's necessary. Homosexuality is much further away from a physical test or determining a physical basis.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20…

#35: I was calling you transphobic, not homophobic. Saying transgender people are "the odd one out" or "into weirdo land to try and be unique" or that respecting transgender people is "selfish" isn't something I care to offer a counterargument to.
39
I despise her crime, glad she got the lengthy term she got but wish her well. For the life of me, I can't think of an more awful environment to transition than in prison. It's going to be a ghastly depressing play or book someday - and I'll probably go see it.

But for the record, the news media and the legal process must use the current sex pronoun until the surgery has taken place. But as a courtesy to Ms. Manning - the rest of us can start using feminine (even pejorative) pronouns immediately.
40
This totally contradicts the MSMs continued reference to Rodney Tom and Tim Sheldon as Democrats - in spite of their voting records and behavior - because that's how they self-identify.

If the media keeps referring to Rodney Tom as a Democrat simply because he puts a "D" after his name, why can't they refer to Chelsea Manning a "she" if that's what she wants?
41
@31 Don't news outlets respect Willard Romney's naming preferences, referring to him by his middle name Mitt? And William Clinton? Lady Gaga and Snoop Lion?

How come news outlets are free to use whatever name they choose (including the hilarious "Barack Hussein Obama" Fox insisted on for as long as they could get away with) for everyone else, but for Chealsea they suddenly care about what's on her driver's license?
42
Remember kids, having a vagina, uterus, and the ability to carry a baby to term doesn't make you a woman but putting a wig and a dress does
43
@30 It's probably best not to use phrases like "perfectly normal" unless you're talking about a distribution curve.

A) Lots of societies don't have a gender binary, so there's nothing normal about it. That the western world has largely eliminated the third gender doesn't make the gender binary normal.

B) Even if it was 'normal', that wouldn't be an argument in its favor. If something is common and wrong it should still be changed.

45
My comment to NPR:
-----------------
Since most journalistic outlets typically refer to transgender individuals by using the pronouns appropriate for their chosen/preferred gender, I find it totally unacceptable that NPR, a supposed bastion of progressive thought, has chosen to adopt the regressive policy of referring to transgender persons not by their gender but by the sex indicated by their genitalia. Does this policy apply to all transgender persons, just those who have been convicted of a felony or just to Ms. Manning? Out of curiosity, do you refer to Chaz Bono as a woman and use feminine pronouns when referring to him? How do you know he's actually physically changed his gender? Because it's obvious that you are ignorant of the fact that gender exists between your ears, not your legs. Your genitalia determine your sex, NOT your gender

What are your proof criteria for changing your pronoun usage where transfolk are concerned? Pictures of their naughty bits? A doctor's letter certified by 2 impartial observers? As a transgender woman, if I were to ever be on NPR, would you take my word for my gender based on my appearance? Perhaps I would have to show you my passport, my driver license, my birth certificate so you could see the "F" on them? Or would you have to actually gaze at my naked crotch to see for yourself if I was worthy of the female name and pronouns I've used for the past 10 years? Your policy for pronoun usage for transgender individuals is a total violation of decency and privacy, and it illustrates total ignorance at best and outright transphobia and extreme religious zealotry at worst.
46
@21, And most transgender people also identify as either male or female, you dick!
47
#45: Eloquent and awesome.
48
I could see NPR balking on zir/zim or one of the novelty pronouns, but shouldn't the basic "I'll refer to you by whatever pronoun you like, so long as you don't make me learn new grammar" rule apply?
49
Look, if you don't identify with the gender corresponding to your genitals, you're the odd one out... don't expect society to stop identifying itself in a way appropriate to 98% of the people out there.

See, here's the thing: Chelsea Manning is not asking "society to stop identifying itself in a way appropriate to 98% of the people." She is asking society to start identifying her in a way appropriate to her own identity.

This isn't some plot to eliminate the gender binary in language. This is a trans woman who has asked that she be addressed according to her own gender identity - just as you wish to be addressed according to yours.

Questions of whether she can transition while in military detention, or who will pay for any treatments she has, are beside this point. They will be resolved one way or another by the appropriate authorities. NPR calling her "he" or "she" will have no bearing on them. So where the fuck is the problem or the harm in showing a little common courtesy in this case? That's all this is.
50
My NPR comment
---------------
Since most journalistic outlets typically refer to transgender individuals by using the pronouns appropriate for their chosen/preferred gender, I find it totally unacceptable that NPR, a supposed bastion of progressive thought, has chosen to adopt the regressive policy of referring to transgender persons not by their gender but by the sex indicated by their genitalia. Does this policy apply to all transgender persons, just those who have been convicted of a felony or just to Ms. Manning? Out of curiosity, do you refer to Chaz Bono as a woman and use feminine pronouns when referring to him? How do you know he's actually physically changed his gender? Because it's obvious that you are ignorant of the fact that gender exists between your ears, not your legs. Your genitalia determine your sex, NOT your gender

What are your proof criteria for changing your pronoun usage where transfolk are concerned? Pictures of their naughty bits? A doctor's letter certified by 2 impartial observers? As a transgender woman, if I were to ever be on NPR, would you take my word for my gender based on my appearance? Perhaps I would have to show you my passport, my driver license, my birth certificate so you could see the "F" on them? Or would you have to actually gaze at my naked crotch to see for yourself if I was worthy of the female name and pronouns I've used for the past 10 years? Your policy for pronoun usage for transgender individuals is a total violation of decency and privacy, and it illustrates total ignorance at best and outright transphobia and extreme religious zealotry at worst.
51
Outside of the two block radius of the Stranger office, gender identity issues and gender fluidity are not that common. Sure, NPR should be shining a light on this by example and not making a point of being backward, but you have to realize that to most of this country it's considered some weird shit to ask to use a different pronoun than the one that seems to be the visible match.
If Bradley/Chelsea Manning mugged you on the street today or last year and you had to give a description to the police, what pronoun would you use? I know that's not a perfect analogy, but that scenario is still the way most people's minds work on the subject of gender, as a binary descriptor for the convenience of not using full name, and not as an oppressive act of subjugation.
52
Way to invalidate gender identity by insisting a physical construct pre-empts one's soul. I hear the TERF's are recruiting. NPR may fit in better with their crowd.
53
Just call him "it". Problem solved.
55
I called KUOW to ask about their policy. I was told the local news room was sent a memo to use Chelsea's prefered name and pronoun. The person answering my call cited the AP style guide, which says people should be referred to by their chosen name and pronouns. Obviously national stories heard on-air can't be changed locally, though. <3 KUOW.
56
@54,

The English language does too, but "it" is considered insulting.
57
In my mind I am an Gay African American Nazi hermaphrodite. Therefore I will be called Herr/Frau Anfrony Mengle the Limpwristed.

REPECT MY WISHES.
58
What if I decide to self-identify as a fern? If a professional botanist concludes after a cursory inspection that I am not in fact a vascular plant, then does saying so make him an oppressive Pteridophyta-phobe?
59
56: The English language has "they", which is a perfectly fine gender-neutral pronoun. It's been used for centuries, from Shakespeare to Harry Potter. Don't ever call someone "it".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_th…
60
57/58: I'm so sick of hearing this crap. We heard a decade of "what if someone wants to marry a baby or a dog?" in response to gay marriage, and now idiots have to slowly figure out over the next decade why identifying your gender is different than identifying as a fern. Fast forward please.

I hope Dan Savage creates a new word like "Santorum" for the next public figure who compares trans people to wanting to be a dog or a fern.
61
I'm a drag queen, call me faaaaabulous!
62
Believe it or not, I'm not actually arguing that transgender people are like ferns. Really. My point is that identifications and meanings of things are not always the sole province of the recipient, they are often things negotiated with the society at large. Society should move sometimes, but right or wrong it gets a say in how it moves and how far. What I'm saying is the TG supporters need to slow their roll about slamming as bigots everybody who says "well... there's more to it than what that particular individual wants, there's legalities and stuff..."
63
I've used the "contact us" form for my local station, and the one on the NPR website, to tell them to clean up their act.
64
NPR journalists are not his friends or family. Manning is objectively still a he. They don't have to be nice to him just because he's a moron.
65
Newspapers are under no obligation to use Bradley's fantasy, drag queen contest name. He's a public figure, they have to use his legal, public name. If Bradley wants the press to call him 'Chelsea' or 'Beezow Doo-Doo Zoppitybop-Bop-Bop' he needs to go to a judge and legally change his name.

As for his sex, as long as he has nuts and twigs, he's a male. Now, he call can himself a ladie, or woman, and ask all his friends and supporters to do so, but he's not biologically a female. Once he gets to leavenworth he'll be some lifer Marine's bitch so fast, his wishes will be met.
66
@62 Within the realm of polite human society, the courteous person will address someone in a courteous manner. If Mr. Smith asks you to call him John, it's a bit standoffish to keep calling him Mr. Smith. Likewise, if a salesman asks if he can call you John, and you say, "No," how should you react when he keeps calling you "John?"

Him and her are pronouns initially bestowed on the basis of perception. It's possible to err, even with someone from the vast majority people who identify with their birth sex. If a woman appears masculine to you, and you call her by a masculine pronoun or nickname because of your misperception, and she corrects you, are you going to insist on your initial perception and refuse to change, or are you going to yield to reality?

Reality in the case of a transgendered person might be controversial, but since when is courtesy controversial?
67
Wow I am shocked. As a proud mother of a transgender daughter I am sometimes taken aback by the ignorance of people who I feel should be better educated. Obviously there's a lot of work to do in this area! Gender identity is in the brain not the chromosomes! Ms. Manning identifies as a woman. Thus she is a woman. And should be addressed as one, whether you consider her a courageous whistleblower or a traitor! As a public radio supporter I am floored by the ignorance you have displayed. Do your homework NPR!
68
@38 you need to stop doing this "transphobic" thing whenever someone doesn't agree with you.
70
#68: When someone doesn't agree with me about respecting trans people - yes, that's actually the definition of the "transphobic thing".
71
If I wear a Utilikilt, am I Scottish?
72
@41 - Seriously? That's the argument you make? *facepalm*
73
This aggression will not stand, man.
74
Actually, 72, it's a pretty decent argument. This is what they want to be called by; this is who they are. It would be pretty rude of me to call you 'molasses' when you go by 'treacle'.
75
"When someone doesn't agree with me"

Well that carries the same weight as a two year old's opinion.
76
As someone who listens to 40 hours of NPR a week, I can tell you that they are hardly progressive.
77
There is actually guidance on the pronouns: they'll be using she and her.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013…
78
To me, transgenderism seems to ultimately reduce to a question of whether words can mean whatever you want them to mean. But that's not to say that people should be compelled to behave within the bounds of their society's sexual norms.
79
Cool - apparently Dominic was right, this didn't last long. The post has been updated with a backtrack.

By the way, if you're against referring to Manning with the pronoun and name of her choosing, do you think we should have kept calling Muhammad Ali Cassius Clay?
80
@79 I don't care either way.
81
@79

Good for you. Now go play and don't be an asshole.
82
@66. Sure, yes, in "polite society" if a person identifies themselves as a gender I'll respect that because why not. But in the larger context of social, legal, etc. provisions of civil society, there's more to it. Society provides services and requires services, and some of them are gender specific. So society gets a say in what defines gender. Sigh and grumble at thr philistine ignorance of those who are not unquestioningly on board if you want. Individualism is great but it has limits. If Pvt. Manning had been in a combat unit and wanted to avoid combat service by declaring himself to be a woman (because certain army combat roles are off limits to women), is he a woman or a coward?
83
Chelsea has finally released a video statement:

http://youtu.be/sFBOQzSk14c
84
@74

I can't believe I'm posting in this stupid thread. And I can't believe I'm the 84th post...

Anyway, the way I see it. Until Bradley legally changes his/her/they/its name to Chelsea, then it's NPR's duty as a news organization to report it as Bradley.

End of story. It has nothing to do with courtesy.
85
@84

You know, your comment is stupid enough, but referring to trans people as "it" is ridiculously insulting.

Besides, as has been stated earlier, news organizations call people by preferred names all the fucking time- Stefani Germanotta is always called Lady Gaga despite the fact that Gaga isn't her legal name. But suddenly when a trans person would like to be referenced with their preferred gender pronoun, the legal name becomes very important. Sorry, this has nothing to do with "NPR's duty as a news organization", this is pure transphobic bullshit.
87
@ 70 - aargh. You were doing so well up to this post, where you suddenly granted yourself absolute authority on this subject. I was right there with you until you did that.
88
Wikipedia's entry on Manning now identifies her as Chelsea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Man…
89
Oops.

@81: I meant @80, not @79.
90
Stefani Germanotta is always called Lady Gaga"

Really? You're going to compare Bradley Manning's "accomplishments" to a fucking pop star? He can use his drag queen stage name as much as he likes, there's no way the press has any obligation to use it until he legally changes his name.

@88 ooh, Wikipedia! Does it tell us if he still has his nuts and twig?
91
@npr

Since the first election NPR has been a propaganda tool for the left, the publicity arm of the DNC. I could give a damn less what those faux journalists do.

@Mr Bradley Manning

Personal delusions/con games don't impose obligations on others HE is a traitor and a criminal, but also a male.

@Transgender

If you half wit apologists for the delusional could you'd have established the clinical parameters for this condition. Thing is, you can't. Most so called transgender people are sick. They need help with their perceptions of reality and how very far those are from objective reality, not your enabling bullshit.
92
Sorry, should have read "since the first election of President Bush". Prior to that, while far to the left, NPR tried to practice journalism. You could weed out their rank bias, if you wanted to. Now they should have their public funding pulled and take it from their buddies at the DNC.
93
@88

Oh. Well, if Wikipedia says something it MUST be true.
94
@ 92, you wouldn't know fair journalism or understand medical science if either rimmed you til your head exploded.
95
@ 93, WHOOSH! There goes my point, right over your head.
96
I am so glad that NPR has seen the light on this. I was enormously disappointed in them when I read that they were going to deliberately mis-gender Manning, especially since they had just recently done a piece about it.
For every one in this thread that still has a problem with this I suggest you read Jami Shofner's post @50. They pretty much sum up the issue.
For Manning's generation gender identity is less and less a binary. I know a whole pack of gender queer young people that flow back and forth over what older people view as a hard line. But I also know at least one very young trans woman who does identify strictly as female. She is also much too poor to even begin to think about reassignment surgery. As society catches up to these young people she may never have to go through that though. I for one look forward to a day when this is the case.
97
@96

My neighbors, a family of 4, are quite liberal and very hesitant to impose gender roles on their son and daughter. They're also close friends with whom my family spends a lot of time. So their kids, never having been taught any judgmental assessments of gender would naturally be free of 'intolerant' reactions to "transgender" people, no? Well, no.

One parishioner at their church is a post op transgender 'woman'. This adolescent girl, with no prompting from any external source, knows there's something off puttingly wrong with this person, doesn't feel comfortable around him.

See, the lies you and your friends tell yourselves are just that. Sick is sick, wrong is wrong and children know this. Homosexuality is neither normal nor healthy, men are men and women women regardless of personal delusion or physical birth defects.
98
@97: Children will also feel uncomfortable around people with vitiligo or heterochromatic eyes or even just people of a different ethnicity. We're by nature intensely uneasy around things that are nearly but not quite like what our image of a human being is. (This seems to be rooted in predator-avoidance instincts.) It's called the "uncanny valley", and you'd do well to look it up.

Now as icky as guy-on-guy sex is, and as offputting as a MtF's broad shoulders and robust mandible may be on a woman, your delicate fucking sensibilities don't entitle you to legislate how other people may live their lives. People with gender identity disorder (of which the characteristic symptom is gender dysphoria) have exactly one proven treatment to ease their suffering: gender reassignment via hormonal and/or surgical treatment. (Not all transgender people need to physically transition; some feel that the risks of surgery may outweigh the potential benefits.) Especially since the science doesn't support your simplistic misunderstanding of the situation, what makes you think you have the right to deny transgender people a cure to what ails them?
By the by, do your liberal neighbor friends know how deeply and baselessly you hate queer people?
99
@97: Your evidence is the opinion of one teenage girl. That ain't science boy.
100
Are there statistics on how many trans folks actually get surgeries? I was under the impression that more did than did not, and I'm seeing comments here to the contrary. Not that it makes the transition more or less valid; I'd just like to have facts rather than guesses.
101
@97: So you are on the same mental/social level with an adolescent. Got it.

Keep trying real hard, and some day you might grow up.

102
Weird that so many people are so emotionally invested in other people's pronouns. Seattleblues is a sad (blue) character for giving such a shit. Must be awful to be tied in such a tight knot over such a thing.
103
The Most Commented link's caption reads as: ...Until Her Gender Is "Actually Physically" Changed by Paul Constant

Dr. Constant, you're needed in surgery.

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