...and remembered, when they vote, that they just got insurance for the first time in their adult lives.

But that would require those people to then vote.

congressional republicans are some of my least favorite people in the world.

Republican's idea of hell is every American voting in both presidential and non-presidential elections.

Not that that would ever happen in our lazy, oblivious society.

What I like is people like Sheldon Adelson will keep flushing his money down the toilet on these schmucks.

@3 Which is why we need a constitutional amendment making voting compulsory.

Yet, I don't think most people who vote for Republican candidates or identify themselves as Republican or Libertarian see an issue with this at all.
I must recognize, however, that far too many congressional Republicans have the stance of "give me what I want or I'll shoot myself in the foot."

@ 5 No we don't more people should vote but it shouldnt be mandatory, that just seems undemocratic.

@6: Which shows you just how far congressional Republicans are from their constituents.

Could you imagine the terror that would ensue if every UNINSURED American over the age of 18 registered to vote? Because that's who will be benefiting from this opportunity, and that's just the sort of folks the Republicans have been doing their best to disenfranchise for years.

@8 & why voting Republican is such a stupid thing to do. It's like voting for the school bully.

Plenty of reasons to hate thus tyrannical law without lying about Republican suppression of votes, you moron Constant.

Lets start with the lies and half truths about how insuring 40 million more people will save overall medical costs. Hell, my dog could figure out the mathematical flaw there (but not a liberal, which is telling, really.)

Or how about the insane violation of my basic right to determine which financial instruments I need? No? Liberals don't believe in liberty OR,mathematics?

Nah, there are good and sufficient reasons to hate tyranny without worrying about voter registration, idiot.

Here's an idea, liberal trash. If you hate liberty and the right to self determination in MY country so much, get out. Find one of your socialist heavens willing to take your free loading ass ..

Oh, I get it now.

@15 Oh, how I wish people like you would realize that America is one country with a responsibility to it's people to make sure we have the basics to keep us a viable, liveable and a secure nation. It's not every man for himself. If you want to live in a third world country, you are free as a bird to do so. But please don't drag us all down with your selfish idea of what freedom is about.

@15: Explain what you think freeloading means in this case. I don't think you are clear on the concept.

@13: No, you don't generalize, you study the issues, and you evaluate each election and each candidate and vote accordingly.

Hmmm... I know! How about giving a tax deduction for voting? Then the Republicans would HAVE to support it!

When you go vote, whether for a primary or general election, you get a receipt worth a $50 tax credit you can just staple on your return. Call it compensation for gas, travel and lost time. Let's see them argue against that one.

Ideally, I'd like to see it be a refundable credit, so that anyone who files can claim it back, but even if it isn't, it's small enough that almost anyone with wage income would get the benefit. Unlike, say, the GOP's "alternative health plan" of $20,000 credits for people who don't need it and those who can't claim it.

@18 Does party platform count for nothing?

@17
If the dollar value of devices rendered you by government exceeds the dollar amount paid in taxes you're a freeloader.

Close to 50% filing taxes pay no net federal income tax. To be sure retirees, military and the like have paid or are paying their dues. But anyone collecting EITC, food stamps, AFDC and so on fits the freeloading category nicely.

How about this voting rights change? If you don't care to pay taxes, and aren't a retiree, military or other government services provider you don't get to vote. After all, if paying for your citizenship isn't important voting probably isn't, right?

@21

Autocorrect stupidly phrased 'services rendered' ad 'devices rendered.'

Shorter SB: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

You don't like democratically passed popular legislation? YOU leave. Go to your precious Italy and leave America to loyal Americans. Or stay and watch yourself become a bigger joke, a foolish relic, like the Klansmen of yesterday. A little bit more irrelevant each day. Just don't shoot anyone.

@21,

But anyone collecting EITC, food stamps, AFDC and so on fits the freeloading category nicely.

You mean children? They're far and away the primary beneficiaries of food stamp programs.

You hear that children? Get off your freeloading asses and start paying taxes!

@24

See, I don't know any children filing taxes. Nor for that matter any who vote.

And EITC pays for big tvs, not the welfare of children. As for food stamps unless McDonalds, potato chips and Coke are kidd welfare they aren't helping. That's all I ever see bought with the damn things personally.

Voting should be "free" (free = postage prepaid, subsidized by a tax on campaign contributions of $701 or more).

@14: SB, you seem like the kind of lady who knows the value of a dollar. Are you aware that the US spends significantly more money on health care and has significantly worse health outcomes than any number of countries with single-payer systems?

Rank of US in health spending per capita, 2010 - 1

Rank of US in life expectancy at birth, 2011 - 33

Rank of US in infant mortality, 2010 - 34

@21: You complain and complain about "freeloaders" who don't pay taxes. This ignores the significant burden these "freeloaders" may face, depending on where they live, in state and local taxes, particularly severely regressive taxes like sales tax.

You have also gone on and on in other comment threads about how the minimum wage doesn't need to be raised and how people working menial jobs don't deserve a living wage.

So, you bitch about people not paying taxes even when they do, and you resist paying people more - which could in many cases pop them up to a bracket where they do pay your precious federal taxes, and which would in all cases give them more disposable income to spend on goods and services which are taxed at the point of sale.

People who don't pay federal tax are in that position because they don't earn enough money to pay federal tax. Either stop whining that they don't pay tax, or start supporting them being paid a living wage.

You've convinced me! I've been wrong to think anyone should be responsible for themselves under any conditions ever!

In my new enlightenment I propose the following-

Immediate confiscation of any personal equity over $200,000 and public flogging for those evil enough to have over half a million. All health care will be free with doctors unpaid and forced by law to remain in their profession. Anyone committing the vile crime against humanity of having more than one of anything (cars, houses but a pair of shoes will be exempt) will be summarily executed.

Now I'm one of you, guys. Boy does it feel good to ignore reality completely! What? No, that bus won't hit me because it wouldn't be fai

@7 Everyone being demanded to vote is no more undemocratic than everyone filing taxes, or participating to census. There could be a blank ballot for those who oppose all choices and no penalty is necessary for those who don't comply.

At any rate, everyone being automatically registered when coming of age would be an appropriate first step.

@18 - At a certain point, I feel confident in disregarding anyone who gets up on the podium and announces to the world "I am proud to be associated with the dangerous lunatics who have come before me" while they affix the Dangerous Lunatic button to their blazer.

Hey folks, look how SB is working HARD for his family while spewing libertarian drivel ad-inifinitum on social media. Get to work, freeloader.

@26,
Your personal anecdotes are not facts.

And EITC pays for big tvs, eh? Consumer goods, in other words. So EITC is doing exactly what it was designed to do: Stimulate the economy by moving money around, since lower income families with kids tend to spend their money instead of burying it in an offshore account where it helps no one.

@29,
Ugh. Why'd you remind me of that? The Walton family is the most despicable and un-American group of self-centered asses this country has ever seen (or perhaps tied with all churches)

So, when did income tax become the only tax that matters? A: when it suited the purposes of the radical right.

Kids pay taxes, SB. Even income tax sometimes, when they're lucky enough to find work that greedy employers haven't hired poor adults to do instead.

Once again, you lose.

My HMO just sent a letter informing me that the premium for my already shitty hospital-only policy is gonna double in January–on top of the 15% increase that already went through this year–and my deductible is increasing from $4,000 to $8,000 all thanks to the “Affordable” Healthcare Act. I’m gonna have to cancel my policy and go without health insurance for the first time in my life.

I sincerely hope that every member of CONgress and the Executive Branch involved in inflicting this insurance industry scam on this country gets the most agonizing form of ass cancer imaginable.

SINGLE PAYER NOW! /end rant

@31 Your bizarre statement aside, you have no problem using the poor for cannon fodder in your neo-con wars of aggression.

@39, Bullshit. Any policy that would "double" under ACA wasn't worth a nickel in coverage. My policy price is going down and is actually going to cover a lot more if I ever get sick. My old one was a surefire route to bankruptcy if I did get seriously ill. We're still paying more than any other country for less, but it's a step in the right direction.

@39

Good thing you prefaced your statement with a summary of its contents.

@38

See, when speaking of federal policy it sort of makes sense to reference federal taxes. Moron.

@idiot said: "Immediate confiscation of any personal equity over $200,000...All health care will be free with doctors unpaid ..."

Actually, I think a lot of people would prefer that to endless grinding poverty while working 80 hours a week and having no access to healthcare or retirement, but alas it is just another straw man.
How about the reality as it is today: "Anyone who makes more than a few million can create their own tax breaks and loopholes to avoid paying taxes while the rest of the population supports them and their corporations through tax breaks and subsidies that are gouged out of their meager paychecks. No healthcare, no job security, no retirement fund, underfunded public education, little chance for a better life for their children." But fuck it, let the majority suffer so that some shmuck who inherited a fortune can watch their money pile up in an off shore bank account.

@35

First only a very few use offshore banks.

Second, storing money in banks IS good for the economy. From what source do you think investment capital for start up businesses ( you know, the places jobs come from) derives? Magic fairy dust perhaps. Certainly making a Chinese company which stole the technology to make that giant tv richer isn't helpful to our economy.

@34

Know what? I can afford the time. Know why? Because effort and risk put my family in a place where my wife needs not work and I can do so about 20 hours a week. Even in this opportunity barren hellhole of a nation where the rich plot to enslave every person (at least in your strange view) anybody can do well if they make the right choices.

@44

Sheesh! Speaking of straw men, you'll be using up all of Eastern Washington production of the stuff to construct your effigy, pal.

"If the dollar value of services rendered..."

Hey sb, have you ever driven on an interstate? Damn things cost millions. Did YOU pay, personally, for the particular stretch you drove?

No? Goddamn freeloading asshole. You enjoy government services you didn't pay for all the time.

Oh, and very Christian of you to be spewing insults. Spoken with your pastor lately?

@43, can you think of any kind of federal taxes besides the income tax? Come on, try really hard. Now, can you think of any kind of taxes besides federal ones? I know you can do it! What a big boy you are!

The people who pay no federal income tax tend to pay MUCH MORE of their income in total taxes.

And while halfwits like you are constantly getting worked up over them darn freeloaders buyin' big ol' teevees with their gubmint checks, those programs are a tiny portion of the government pie. That deficit that you all get so weepy about (but only when a Democrat is in the White House) wouldn't be affected at all if all of those programs went away.

In the meantime, dipshits like you are getting shafted by the very people you support. "Personal responsibility", they shout, and people like you cheer, when they are the biggest freeloaders out there. You too.

You just carry on rambling about libberuls wantin' to execute anyone with two cars, bro. Views like the ones you've expressed in this thread help elect sensible Democrats, because they make you look stupid. You ARE stupid.

@45,

anybody can do well if they make the right choices.

Like the choice to be born a white male in a well-to-do family?

If success in life is only about the choices people make, then tell me, why are there not an equal number of white CEOs and black CEOs? Or an equal number of male billionaires and female billionaires? If the number of white and black (or male and female) is roughly 50/50, then the number of black female billionaire CEOs should mirror that.

Unless you're suggesting that women and blacks inherently make worse choices than white men?

@ 43, you think the money spent by children doesn't end up contributing to federal tax collection? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....

@41, it's an individual policy from Group Health, and yes it is terrible but it's all that I could afford and now I won't even have that. Thank you for your concern.

@48, I'll bet he takes a mortgage tax deduction, too.

I'll bet he lives in a community where the sewer, water, and power are subsidized by government spending.

I'll bet he lives in a community that was built with government construction subsidies, including mortgage subsidies going back all the way to the GI Bill.

I'll bet that neighborhood has streetlights and traffic lights and curbs and mailboxes and all the rest of the street furniture -- and the streets themselves -- all paid for out of someone else's taxes.

I know for a fact he's typing his uninformed little rants on a computer network that was created by the government, and the machine he's using makes use of microchip and transistor research done with government money.

He's having trouble with word recognition, so many he's using an iPhone or Android device with speech recognition. The speech recognition engine behind both of those systems was developed by the government.

From the tone of his ranting I'd say it's a good bet he's got hypertension, for which his doctor has probably prescribed medicine discovered through government-funded research -- as something like 90% of all new medicines and treatments are.

And, of course, we know he's a huge patriot, so surely he's aware of the trillions of dollars we spend on defending the homeland he loves, er, hates--which is it, again? Far more than he's chipping in for, I'll betcha.

Construction, tech, medicine, aviation, automobiles, even agriculture -- it's hard to think of an industry that isn't hugely government-subsidized, though subsidized isn't really the best word for what is really INVESTMENT. That's how modern societies build themselves.

But Seattlebullshit doesn't want to live in a modern society, he wants to live in Somalia.

@Fnarf, thank you for expressing it so much better than I ever could.

I really think The Stranger should organize a Slog meeting where the best known and most notorious commenters could meet and debate one topic. Seeing you or Brooklyn Reader take down 'seattleblues' in person would make my day.

Bonus round, everyone gets to throw a rotten peach at Bailo.

Then we retire for drinks at Mrs. Vel-DuRay's pad.

@54, I'll go straight to the drinks, Dr_Awesome. I have zero desire to ever be in the same room as Seattleboob, or Bailo for that matter (though I'm pretty sure I have been, with the latter, at the symphony -- at least it looked just like his old profile pic, and he was wearing his spandex bike gear).

@45 - Let me see if I get this right. You claim to work 20 hours a week and that your spouse doesn't work, yet you spend numerous hours a week here alone ranting madly about freeloaders? Get out of here, ridiculous troll. Go get a real job, it may teach you some respect for those who work for a living yet can't make ends meet. It'd also force you to get out of your mother's basement at least once a day, which you sorely need from the look of your twisted rhetoric.

@20. Not really. Party platforms are inherently meaningless, and only discussed by the party every four years at their conventions.

@ 54, what, my efforts go unappreciated? Granted, I have given up crafting rational arguments against his position as they have little effect against a mind completely given over to emotion as SB's is. So lately you haven't seen any real demolition of his half-baked points, as I instead use contempt and wit to bring him back to earth. Ah well, I'll just have to bask in Lissa's recognition of my earlier arguments.

@ 55, I still have every intention of inviting him to the bar of my choice (my right, as the challenged party) to call him a liar to his face, the next time I'm in Seattle. I doubt he'll show up, but if Slog agrees to communicate my intentions (I plan to email them about it next time I'm in town) I would expect enough curious readers to show up and make a Slog Happy out of it. I think you would like to see that - there could be no outcome that wouldn't give you some satisfaction, I'm sure.

@58 - There is little point in arguing with SB. The dude is a sociopath and nobody (pretty much) reads his garbage. Why waste your time and make him the focus of comment threads? Derision seems more than adequate to deal with him, although I do understand the urge to debunk his nasty rhetoric.

@49

I couldn't care less what local or state taxes lower income people pay. If they do, they should learn a trade or profession, make more money and, above all, quit whining about where their life choices led them.

Nor do I care what contribution these wealth redistribution (or as they really are, theft) programs make to the deficit. They shouldn't exist at all, so any expenditure is too much.

As for electing sensible democrats, the term is oxymoronic. This is a big word you won't understand, and it means the terms exclude each other.

@54

" I do understand the urge to debunk his nasty rhetoric". Yep. Too bad you can't debunk reality, I guess.

@53
Yeah, I get it. You can't conceive of any situation you don't want government help to resolve. I can't think of anything but what the Constitution mandates government to do in which I do want the power mad, inept bastards involved.

See, I grew up and you're still a puling whiny baby wanting someone else to wipe your ass.

Oh, and you guessed incorrectly. My health is good.

FYI 'bro' my siblings are decent upstanding citizens. You're not that, nor are you my bro

@50

In part you're right. Minorities were, and sometimes are, discriminated against. That the US is the best place to pursue opportunities doesn't imply we can't do better.

Otherwise, you're wrong. People come here dirt poor without the ingrained liberal excuses for what stops them, and they do well. I'm an average guy raised poor, and all my siblings and myself have done well.

If you folks spent less time explaining why it couldn't be done and more time doing it you'd see what I mean.

@Matt from Denver- Oops, sorry about leaving you out. Your wordsmithing here on Slog is definitely appreciated.

As is everyone else's work that I neglected to mention, everyone shining the light of reason into the dark corners of nuttery that occasionally infest this place.

Hey, Seattleblues? How is that talk with your pastor going anyway? The one where you confess to angrily calling people names simply because you disagree with their points of view? How about that, what does your pastor have to say about that?

Talking to a pastor isn't going to resolve his frustration with so many years of pent up emotions for the gays, he either needs a good fuck or serious medication and a shrink.

@54 I would value the opportunity to meet you, Fnarf, and many others here. But, the idea of of making the demolition of the arguments of a tiny and damaged intellect the main attraction is immoral, pointless and beneath our dignity. We might as well get together to pull the wings off flies or cut up worms.

Chapter 37: Angry Dithering on the Uncaring Internet
In which Seattleblues, his inability to comprehend biology already well-known, proceeds to demonstrate his willful ignorance of economics, statistics, mathematics, and law.

@60: "I couldn't care less what local or state taxes lower income people pay. If they do, they should learn a trade or profession, make more money and, above all, quit whining about where their life choices led them."

Why do you have so little respect for hard-working Americans who are trying to earn a living and support their families?

Do you really think it is realistic for everyone to learn a skilled trade or a profession?

If everyone were a lawyer, a carpenter, an engineer, a plumber, then who would stock the shelves at your grocery store? Who would ring up your purchases? Who would hand you your dry-cleaning? Who would bus your table, take your order, and wash your dishes when you went out to eat? Who would throw your trash into the garbage truck? Who would sweep the streets of your town? Who would mop the floors of your children's school?

You are surrounded by decent, hard-working people who, for reasons of chance, or intellect, or opportunity, or basic aptitude, have taken on the low-skilled, low-paying jobs that still need to get done. Jobs that you rely on to provide you with the services and amenities your believe your elevated status entitles you to.

Rather than acknowledging the contribution these hard-working people make, you deride and belittle them. You begrudge them even the pittance they earn. And when that pittance isn't enough to fill their children's bellies, you call them moochers for accepting the aid that their fellow citizens have chosen to provide them.

"Get a job!" you sneer, as you pass by men and women who work harder, every day, than you have ever worked in your life.

@63,
And what would be a better way to work to eliminate discrimination? By simply asking people to stop discriminating? Good luck with that. "Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed." -Martin Luther King, Jr.
The oppressed demand the oppressors treat them fairly. Who will enforce that demand? The oppressors sure as hell won't. Only the government will. Elected by the people, for the people... not for the elite people... for all the people. But you don't want that. You want the wealthy elite to remain the wealthy elite, unmolested by the evil government that is trying to level the playing field. You naively believe those with wealth and power will somehow willingly give that up, out of the goodness of their hearts, to the poor and the powerless. They'll never give it up. It must be taken from them. They would rather take it with them to the grave than to ever be truly charitable. Your pal Jesus Christ would certainly agree with me on that.

Yeah, you're the average white, hetero, christian male and somehow you miraculously did well in our largely white, hetero, christian, male society. Imagine that.

You have no clue what it would be like to live as a minority who tries and tries and works harder and harder and STILL gets trampled on by the boots of the oppressors, yet you claim to know what losers they all are for making "the wrong choices."

@ 68, his admission that "he couldn't care less" is what his entire position boils down to. In other words, fuck you, he has his (which he got via privilege - something has inadvertently revealed when telling his "my grandpappy and pappy were kindergarten dropouts who worked their way to the top" success stories - they might have worked hard, but he got a free ride).

@70 - The needs for social services fortunately doesn't depend on the personal success story of some schmuck on the internet. That's anecdotal, at best and considering the boob's profile, it's likely bullshit.

I'm glad that my bubble is pretty big. I understand that even skilled tradespeople or educated folks working in their profession sometimes don't make enough money to be "self reliant." I'm so lucky that my little circle includes teachers who need WIC to feed their babies and HVAC techs who are "unemployed" two months a year because business is slow and, well, fuck 'em is their employers attitude and secretaries who are raising their grandkids after tragic events and need an EITC to make sure they get their school supplies every year. And I'm glad that my brain was sharp enough at the tender age of 8 to understand that my grandfather - a man who spent over 20 years working double shifts to support his family - was outright killed by the greed of the factory owners who used bankruptcy as a strategic tool to renege on every promise they made him for his hard work and left him waiting for government benefits for life-saving surgery - as you've surely surmised, waiting too long. I'm glad I understand that when - no longer if - my mom can buy affordable private insurance she can finally retire from a back-breaking job (having saved enough to support herself, except for that little wrinkle of insurance currently costing upwards of $1500/month for her...nearly twice what Social Security she'd qualify for), and when my brother can do so, he can stop paying exorbitant rates for the shitty insurance his employer offers to "part-time" employees (all the while keeping him at 32 hours a week - basically chasing him out the door at 31.5 hours - to make sure that's all he qualifies for). Because sometimes people *do* get an education and their career still doesn't pan out, and sometimes that's better for the family because they have some spare time to bear the brunt of the housework and child care (especially when the other spouse makes plenty such that part-time is more than enough dollar-wise), but sometimes their spouse's insurance won't cover spouses with ANY other insurance available to them. Man, the real world has so much nuance. Glad I live in it and get to see it.

Also, @68...slow clap.

Blah blah blah "CHICAGO STYLE POLITICS DEAD VOTERS ON THE POLLS" blah.

@60: I'm happy you bought a dictionary but you should try reading it versus flipping to pages that make your eyes unfocus and calling yourself a big boy.