Yep, it's pretty "natural" that men work inside buildings, staring at computers, underneath fluorescent lights too. And money is "natural", which is why we don't hunt and gather any more. Cars are certainly "natural", and humanity has been commuting to work on "natural" highways since before recorded history. I really like my "natural" frozen burritos for lunch, and the "natural" margaritas I have after work, in the "natural" city I live in. I love sleeping in my "natural" home, and waking up to my "natural" alarm clock before dawn, instead of the birds singing.

I could go on like this for hours, naturally.

Rabbi Goldie said that the burning passion in my pants occurs naturally. I should though tread carefully when around a slightly effeminate Catholic priest.

Guys guess what! Men and women are not 100% mentally and biologically equal. If people would start admitting that without tagging on how one or the other is "better" we'd all get along a lot better.

Another nail in the 'why I hate Vice' coffin.
I guess they think that fight for equal status can be interpreted as 'miserable'.

Well, no one knows more about how women think than men.

@3 (myself) please don't construe this as an endorsement of what was said by Vice guy specifically. Just a reminder that men and women are literally not equal because we've been spending a lot more time evolving than we have living in our current society. (Again for chrissakes there is no-one-better-than-other thing happening here) [other brackets, bitches]

McInnes is a "punk rock Republican" in the worst way. It's even sadder that actual progressive punkers I respect actually write for this magazine on a semi-regular basis. Vice is horrible.

@3: Human beings are not 100% identical, gender has nothing to do with it.

@8 women and men, in general, work slightly differently from social and problem-solving standpoints, among other things. If you're going for the "everyone is unique" angle you're just skirting the whole thing.

If his point is that most women would "naturally" rather work around the hearth and garden with the children closeby while the men go out and gather protein and fend off threats to the group, i'm not so sure he's wrong.

as @6 says, we spent millions of years as hunter-gatherers, and that's pretty much the way it worked. for the majority of heterosexual humans.

http://www.davidtinapple.com/illich/1990…

I don't care, give me any delicious dick or clitoris to suck on, and I'm happy.

"Freedom to choose makes people miserable by taking away their ability to make free choices!" Cute argument.

@10 I would buy that argument if most women still worked around the hearth and most men went out to gather protein.

Staring at a computer screen all day? I'm not sure that there's an evolutionary advantage.

And, besides, the argument is guilty of the inductive leap. I don't give a rat's ass what most men want or most women want. I care about what I want and what my female co-worker wants.

@9

Skirting what whole thing? Prejudice? That thing? Maybe we should skirt that whole thing were we make assumptions about a person we don't know. "Everyone is unique" means "everyone gets a chance."

McInnes has been out at Vice for over 5 years.

These rants make the assumption that work is "optional" for women...uh, how so? Who can afford the luxury of a stay at home spouse of either gender anymore? It's not feminism's fault that women have to work either-- non-upper class women have ALWAYS had to work to survive and support their families.

I'd like to know how many men are happy in the workforce.

@19: I for one would love to be a stay at home dad.

@18: Lower class women aren't women. They're plebes. Beneath notice. The fact that women have been working the same jobs as men throughout the industrial age, including far before feminism? Irrelevant.

Hello.

What @5 said. It's always a delight to read what men know about women. He should start a woman's magazine like that Bustle guy who also knows everything that women think and feel!

@18 "It's not feminism's fault that women have to work"

Fucking EXACTLY. Did feminism create the economic reality that we live in today? No. All feminism did was give women choices.
- Want to have a career other than teacher, secretary, or nurse? Congratulations! Feminism can help you!
- Want to stay home with your kiddos ? Congratulations! You still have that choice (assuming your family can afford it)!
- Want to be paid equally for equal work and not treated differently because you're a woman? Um, well, we're still working on that.

Even odder is by "home makers" he means "building contractors."

There's a reason McInnes left Vice in 2007. He wanted to keep it a white boys club. But, Vice now has been redefining its readership to be far more inclusive and wants to redefine the privilege that its readership has into something more sharp and edgy that's deconstructing the power structures.

I'm sure that Vice would appreciate it if you stopped saying Vice Founder McInnes. He's not part of it anymore, and calling him founder is just dishonest.

Read @17. Vice is a pretty interesting place, actually. I can't say it's all excellent, but they do some valuable reporting. This douchebag hasn't worked at Vice Magazine since 2007, which is not to say that other douchebags haven't taken his place, but it's unfair to say Vice is shit because McInnes is shit.

BTW, he's also an outspoken racist and white supremacist and writes for kook anti-immigrant, anti-black website VDARE. That's a better way to identify him than anything to do with Vice.

Women naturally want to bang on my door at 1 am after wild partying, for late night booty call.

But society is preventing this!

@20,

I think many people would be happy to do any number of things other than work a 9-to-5, especially anyone who's in a line of work they don't particularly care about and/or working for an employer they feel doesn't value them. But I guess only women deserve to quit the rat race and be happy? Or at least that's what the white knight sexists believe.

@28: I don't have a clue what Vice magazine is today, but I remember reading a copy in 2003 and it ruined my whole fucking day, as a writer and as a person. It was like being tube-fed Snarky Entitled Douche Concentrate. As a writer, smirking while shitting on your subject is not critical engagement. As a person, mistaking the needlessly caustic for the bracingly honest is what's wrong with the modern world in a nutshell. If they've changed, that's fantastic- but I'm still not reading it, and certainly not this asshole's tome of self-aggrandizement.

@keshmeshi: I think many people would be happy to do any number of things other than work a 9-to-5

So true.

But I guess only women deserve to quit the rat race and be happy? Or at least that's what the white knight sexists believe.

Most women aren't interested in financially supporting a man, whereas a lot of men see financial support (correctly) as a way to attract women. Househusband is a tough job to land.

Hilarious that you blame it all on men.

@32,

Hilarious that you assume that I blame it all on men.

I'm complaining about white knight sexists like McInnes. What is YOUR fucking problem, douchebag?

The gender-based division of labor was good when society was in its infancy. It's no longer needed, and the fact that people care so strongly for it is absurd.

Thanks for reminding me to return to Vice to catch up on Gary Indiana. His latest, Reptile Commanders from Planet Debby includes gems like "the unsinkable turd that is John McCain" and "the homophobic Christian right, which was already sporting a gay boner for Putin because of his bold support for the persecution of sexual minorities, has been publicly swooning like the corps de ballet in Swan Lake over photographs of his wide manly breast as he gallops through the tundra on his noble steed."

@32

Househusband is a tough job to land.

Yeah...Because stay at home moms and dads just sit around watching daytime TV and eating bonbons. Who would want a job with a good salary when you could do that? It's not like housekeeping and raising children is hard, unpaid, underacknowledged, and often demoralizing work or anything.

@32 To be clear: I think the notion that women are attracted into marriage by the prospect of "financial support", besides being hilariously outdated, ignores the fact that the spouse who stays home works. I'm not denying that there are women who freely choose to be stay-at-home moms (being a "homemaker" with no kids is pretty antiquated now, so I'm ignoring that possibility), but for a lot of women, that option isn't going to be significantly more desirable than having a job - in fact, the women I know who do it all saw giving up their jobs as a sacrifice they made for their family.

In the old days, women had no choice but to find a man to support them, because that was what society expected them to do, and their opportunities for income earning were limited. Nowadays, the prospect of finding a man to "support" you isn't really that enticing (unless, I suppose, he's in the small minority of the very rich and can afford to support you while you do yoga all day or something). The woman is already probably working, so if she decides that she will give up her job and stay home while the husband earns money, they're actually taking a pay decrease between the two of them. Plus she's exchanging financial freedom for financial dependence, and making it harder for herself to re-enter the workforce when she's ready to. And, let me reiterate, she is still working, just not getting paid for it, and the work is possibly more unpleasant than what she would be doing at her job.

@32 Also, it's absolutely not true that women are "not interested" in financially supporting a man. I'd love to know what you're basing that on. It's pretty common now for women put their male partners through school, e.g.

There is a deep, sincere need for a men's movement our culture and that void is currently packed with douchebags like this guy. Lame.

Single dad here. Some people (like me) really like raising kids and don't find the cooking, cleaning, and childcare demoralizing or awful. Taking care of my kiddo is the most rewarding work I've ever done. If you choose to live simply the work is not crushing or burdensome. I probably dont face the same kind of discrimination in the workplace as a woman in my situation might, but it certainly has limited my career options. I cant work the kind of crushing overtime that is often expected.
Given the choice I would totally stay home to spend more time with my kid. Im actively pursuing that een though it means a drastic reduction in pay. We might not ever be homeowners or drive a new car, but Ill get to be a part of his life in a meaningful way.

At the request of my 1st husband I quit my job to stay home and take care of the house and the dogs. That's right, I was a stay at home dog mom. We had a pretty big house on 20 acres in the woods outside of Carnation. I tried to be happy. But ya know, the isolation and the $300 a month allowance was pretty fucking limiting. In the end, in addition to daily yoga I was doing 4 hours a day on the treadmill. Yeah, that wasn't symbolic of my situation or anything. But the house was spotless!
Never again. Not the life for me.

I spent the last 6 months financially supporting my now-husband. It worked out well. I actually encouraged him to stop working at his dead-end job in order to pursue something he liked more and that would afford him more career options.

Yeah, I was pretty miserable working 40 hours a week at a job I was dispassionate about for a company I found morally questionable with people I simply did not fit in with. I don't really think my status as a female had much to do with that misery. We're both working now, at places we enjoy a lot more, and even though my income has taken a hit it's worth it. How could we ever feel good about our marriage knowing the other is miserable 5/7 days out of the week in order to make more money than is really necessary?

And actually, if the situation literally was that I garden and cook all day while my husband literally fetches more veggies and proteins for me, I would be stoked on that. I think he would be too.