SALAD
SALAD
SALAD

The demand to fire him (or require the chorus to hire someone they approve) is the most damning detail I see here. That they categorically dismiss the idea of training him to an acceptable skill level means to me that their interest is not in access or accuracy, but in a personal vendetta.

Thanks for covering this, Cienna.

FUCK!
Walk your ass down to Seattle Central Community College and get a legit ASL interpreter.

I took ASL there for my foreign language requirement before getting into the U. My teachers were deaf, no cheating.

It's pretty tough to get the cert. It is flat fucking easy to find a certified interpreter.

Well, but @2, if there have been complaints for upwards of 20 years, I think they have the right to ask for termination.

Or, walk a little further and go to
http://www.hsdc.org/about-us/locations/h…

So "the deaf community" has a chance to offer tolerance and education, opts for neither, and furthermore would rather protest to get someone fired because they're not able to communicate effectively with a larger audience. That's good stuff right there.

SALAD

@4 - Sure, they have the right to ask for whatever they want to ask for. They don't have a right to force the hiring and firing practices of an organization they are not part of, though, so let them stamp their feet and make demands, but if they're not willing to actually engage in a constructive dialogue, they can't expect to be taken seriously by the Chorus, either.

31 years of
SALAD SALAD
SALAD

If this was a new guy who was struggling, training would be a legitimate request, but after almost 25 years, they're right to ask for someone better.

Maybe they can get that South African guy who turned out to not know any sign language at all.

To be dragged by well-meaning family members to a choral concert "because it's okay they have an interpreter," only to be met by

SALAD
SALAD
SALAD

@10 - I'm only going to say this once. Fuck you, Fnarf. Comparing Kevin Gallagher to the mentally ill hand-flapper is way out of line. These dipshits have pounced on that story to launch their story to a broader audience, many of whom have taken their claims for granted without knowing a goddamn thing about what they're talking about. It is crass for them to do it in the first place, and I expect better from you.

I'm still waiting for them to provide 24 years of documented complaints that were ignored by the chorus. So fare there seems to only be one official complaint and it is being addressed in a very professional way, unlike the complainants.

Since when are private arts organizations legally mandated to provide and ASL interpreter for their performances?

@12 all the more complex: many songs, choral pieces in particular, include overlapping lyrics with 2 or 3 statements being made simultaneously. Sign THAT buddy.

@11 Point well-illustrated.
S
A
L
A
D

@2: It is unfair to expect an entire community to suffer mistranslations and, therefore, essentially ostracism, while they wait for an interpreter who probably never should have been hired in the first place to "brush up" on skills that he should have had in place 31 years ago.

I'm a hearing person but even I can see that it's audism that's preventing this issue from being resolved. It's bullshit. Nobody would accept this from an interpreter of a spoken language, or suggest that such an interpreter get to keep their job until they can learn the interpretation skills that they need to perform said job.

It's frigging absurd.

@10 It's almost as if he were supposed to make an interpretation of the song so that he would be able to swiftly communicate the gist to his audience.

@12 - That is a large part of it, yes. Part of the demand is calling for a literal, word-for-word translation of exactly what the chorus is singing. Kevin's style, which takes more artistic liberties, is not a new thing or unique to him. A literal translation is required for legal proceedings, medical consultations, and other situations where a misunderstanding poses a real danger. A choir singing about chow mein, pig brains, and roast duck is not one of those times.

Again, Kevin doesn't do anything that many other fully certified signers do. Most of this controversy is a personal grudge, the details of which may never be fully understood as one party is intent on hiding those motivations, and the other party is not interested in airing 30-year-old dirty laundry.

I'm still waiting for the SMC to provide some fresh and new entertainment. I've been waiting for nearly 20 years....

But good luck with the ASL thing...

@14...I worked with LGBT community organization back in the 90s and remember this was a serious issue then. I didn't participate in formal conversations, but several board members did, including one who ran a social service agency for the deaf and hard of hearing. SMC didn't change a thing.

@15, the chorus may not be legally required to offer ASL services, but if they do, shouldn't they provide a service that actually works for their deaf and hard-of-hearing audience members?

Seems like SMC is more interested in using their artistic but incomprehensible interpreter to provide a beautiful experience for their hearing audiences.

@20, be nice. (Though I confess it took me years to shake the memory of a "Tribute to Sir Elton John" show.)

@19 Yeah, fuck that gross Asian shit! All those deaf complainers need to know is SALAD! And that apparently SMC has some Vatican-level intrigue going on.

@21 - Although the organizers of this protest claim to speak for "the community," there is strong disagreement within the deaf community about their claims. The Chorus has many regular ticket-holders who specifically request to sit in "Kevin's section" because they are deaf and need to be near him to enjoy the show. A useful service is being provided, despite the over-the-top claims of these letter-writers.

@23 - Not really. There's nothing much to dig up in the Chorus. The fight is within the deaf community and among professional interpreters.

Let's not treat ASL like a Magical Dance Language. Then maybe some of the ruder deaf separatists will come around.

@24...Based on what you're reporting, you seem to have some insider information. Do you work with, or serve on the board of, the chorus? Just curious, since you seem to have a lot of energy about this topic based on your multiple posts.

Anyhow, why not try a test. Offer two interpreters, maybe on different show nights, or on different sides of the stage, and see which is more popular with the audience members who most need this service?

Is this guy a volunteer? Because if SMC is paying for ASL interpretation, they should be hiring someone certified. SMC isn't some volunteer-run "let's put on a show!" arts group where one member has a deaf friend that they are willing to interpret for. It's an established organization playing in professional venues. If you're going to offer ASL interpretation, get someone with established credentials.

@27 - I am a singer in the Chorus. I must make it clear, however, that I am not a spokesperson for the Chorus by any means. I provide only my personal perspective and opinions based on more than a decade with the organization. Frank Stilwagner, quoted in this post above, is the sole source for official SMC statements and opinions.

It is an interesting proposition, indeed, but I am personally disinclined to entertain the demands of a group that has taken such craven and cruel tactics as brazenly comparing some issues with clarity to a mentally ill man signing complete gibberish. To put Kevin alongside another interpreter just to see which one they go to is a public indignity he hasn't earned.

@ 29, I thought only Fnarf did that.

@30 - The comparison has been all too gleefully made in their publicity materials. They've taken the #fakeinterpreter hashtag that sprang up after the Mandela funeral and started spreading around #SMCfakeinterpreter, among other instances. To go so smoothly from "Some of his signs are incorrect" to "He's just like the crazy man you saw on tv! A complete fraud!" is low.

@29 "craven and cruel"? Those are strong words. The people I know who worked on this issue in the 90s were smart, reasonable people who were leaders in the deaf and LGBT communities. I don't know who's involved now, but I would encourage you to step back, not take this personally, not assume it's a meritless critique of Kevin, and better understand the deaf community's concerns before going hyperbolic.

MacCrocodile. Would you please explain your qualifications to judge the quality and expertise of an interpreter. Several of your statements make judgements about kevin's signing and how quality interpreting is provided.

I keep hearing references to efforts being made since 1989 being tossed about, including on the petition webpage. Does anybody have any documentation of this ? Thanks :).

@31 Does SMC hold tryouts or can anyone join the choir on stage and sing out of key and ruin the performance? That's a serious question, btw.

@32 - The hyperbole is out there already, coming from the other side who have riled people up with what are craven and cruel comparisons. I stand by that phrasing. People who have never been to a concert and people who have no need for an interpreter themselves have taken the press releases as truth and have jumped on the bandwagon calling for Kevin's dismissal. People who have no dog in this fight have made demands of an organization that go beyond reasonable accommodation, rejecting compromises that would get them what they claim to really want. Whether they have legitimate concerns is lost in their own insistence on making this personal.

@33 - I have made no claim to such expertise, but the fact that Kevin does have fans within the deaf community suggests to me that the writers of the open letter do not speak for a unified community and that Kevin's signing is useful to at least a portion of that community.

@35 - There are auditions, yes, but of course singers aren't kicked out for missing some notes. A soloist received poorly by the audience would also not be summarily removed from the chorus. Then again, people standing outside not buying tickets aren't the audience. While the chorus is happy to reach out to new audience members, artistic decisions will never make everyone in the world happy, and the chorus has no obligation to change everything every time someone complains about an artistic decision.

@4 "so let them stamp their feet and make demands"
MacCrocodile, was that an intentional attempt to be an asshole, or just a coincidence? The folks with no voice can just "stomp their feet," eh?
You are so far out of your depth in just about everything you've posted. Your cultural insensitivity is exactly what's wrong with this whole situation. I'm sure Kevin is a great guy whose heart is in the right place. Shit, you're probably a swell guy, too, when you know what you're talking about. Kevin is not a certified interpreter. He's a performance artist. The shit he does apparently makes you and a bunch of other hearing folks feel good. He gets big laughs and that's great. At whose expense, though?

@37: Does this interpreter participate in rehearsals?

I do find it odd that the Chorus director told the Times that he just found out that ASL is a "language." Seriously? He didn't know that? Well, that would explain a lot.

If you were deaf (and I'm not) and wanted to experience a concert as fully as you could like hearing people, you would appreciate someone who could truly do the best job. I don't think that's asking a lot.

Apparently so.

@36..."rejecting compromises." Such as?

I'm not an insider here, I'm not deaf, and I don't attend SMC concerts. I don't have an ax to grind against Kevin, who I am sure is a genuinely nice guy. It just seems to me that continuing to offer only Kevin to an audience that says he has not met their needs for decades, that doesn't seem like an accommodation.

I really am curious: What is SMC offering to do that is different?

Smc receives public funding which by law requires them to provide access to their concerts.

@38 - If that interpretation of my phrasing came across, I apologize for it. I meant it only as the actions of a petulant person, not as a dig on their language abilities. Their demands and accusations come as a surprise to many of us, and their tone (and again, the comparison to the Mandela interpreter) is uncalled-for.

They say that they have been trying for decades to remedy the situation, but this time around, they open with an open letter to the chorus, spread around the internet before they even attempted to speak to Chorus staff. Frank Stilwagner is not new to the chorus, but the popularity of the open letter is the first he's heard of this controversy. How hard are they really trying when the Executive Director (who, by the way, is not hard to find or contact) hasn't heard any of this before?

@41 - The Chorus (again, I cannot comment in an official capacity, so my "insider information" here is limited) has made multiple attempts to reach out to the writers of this open letter, including an offer to get Kevin the training and certification they cite as requirements, but as I said in my first comment here, their unwillingness to entertain compromise that doesn't include firing Kevin leads me to question their motivations; do they want a qualified interpreter, or do they just want an interpreter who isn't that one? The Chorus wants to make this right, and any resolution that doesn't require firing a beloved friend is of course preferable.

Maccrocodile. Are you affiliated with smc?

Callling for the replacement of a worker or firing has been a strategy used in many civil rights movements.

I can only assume that there will soon be verifiable documentation available that this has been an issue since 1989.

Failing it being produced, I am skeptical that it HAS been bounced back and forth between Katie Roberts and the Seattle Men's chorus for 24 years.

Why not give out lyric sheets? Seems like that addition would fix a lot of these issues.

@44 - see @29. I am a singer in the chorus, but not a spokesperson for it. My opinions here are mine and do not reflect the opinions or policies of Seattle Men's Chorus, Seattle Women's Chorus, or the parent company Flying House Productions.

To everyone, I would like to apologize again if I have come across as insensitive to the deaf community. I am, of course, emotionally invested in the success of the Chorus, but I don't want to be thought of as insensitive to the needs of others. If I may attempt to summarize what I mean to say: while their stated purposes may be valid (may be; I am not qualified to judge their validity), I don't believe that this particular group of people are going into discussions in good faith. They have made demands that go beyond what is reasonable and have done so in a very hurtful way.

I don't understand why deaf people are going to a concert. They're deaf! That's like a blind guy going to an art gallery.

MacCrocodile, really appreciate your hard work in this thread. I trust you.

For comparison, @49 is definitely being insensitive.

@49: See, for instance, this video of a pop song being interpreted by an ASL signer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKnQjBf8…

It's not music the way that a hearing audience would understand it, but here is a rhythmic, musical quality to the way that it is performed. Also you forget that most deaf people are not born to deaf parents - lots of deaf people have hearing relatives, and these people might not want to be excluded from family activities due to their deafness.

MacCrocodile, you may want to apply your own first post to your viewpoints before deciding what group is doing. Many of harsh words are done by the outside who supports this group. They are entitled to their own opinions.

To follow your first post, go here http://openlettertosmc.blogspot.com/
To me, the blog is not directly comparing Kevin with the South Africa's fake interpreter, but riding on the media tail because it raised public awareness of deaf's needs. Many people do not understand this, as evidently seen in this article's comments.

Please understand the real intents of the group before judging them. On the blog I pasted above, especially check the letter by Ian, an eyeopener in my opinion.

just a deaf.

As someone with truly no dog in this fight, the detail that strikes me most is the independent evaluation he received. But IslandGuy upthread does give some corroboration to the idea that concerns have been expressed for decades. If that's true, I can empathize with those frustrated enough to call for this interpreter's dismissal, even if some are making unfair comparisons to the guy at Mandela's memorial.

@43 Fair enough. No harm, no foul on that front, then.
Now, let me address your second point. Kevin's decades worth of "performances" are not the same thing as what the world witnessed in the form of Thamsanqa Jantjie. That is absolutely true.
This really isn't about Kevin or Jantie, though, and that is the real point. It's about an oppressed group of people who are your neighbors and mine. They've been ignored long enough. Where they saw an opportunity to educate their hearing neighbors and demand access here at home, you and others describe them as petulant children. And going after them for the manner and tone in which they've decided to stand up for themselves is nothing but a distraction from the real issue. These folks stood up and demanded to be taken seriously and you and so many others, just like so many others before you, are left telling them to sit down and be quiet. "How hard are they really trying?" you ask. Well, they're trying really fucking hard and your ill-informed arguments are not making it any easier.
Your argument essentially boils down to your opinion that they are not being polite enough about being oppressed. In my experience with deaf culture, being direct or blunt or whatever is commonplace. You seem like you'd prefer something more familiar to hearing culture: Perhaps they should just say thank you every time they get a shitty interpreter because, heck, at least the hearing world is trying a to take them a little bit seriously.
Kevin does need to go. If that hurts a little bit, I'm sorry. You told me earlier that missing a few notes on stage won't get you sent home packing. But, Kevin has been signing the songs in an "out of key" fashion for years and years. It doesn't matter if you think he's doing a good job or if he's a popular performer amongst hearing audiences, deaf people can't understand him b/c he doesn't make any sense.

Well that's awkward. The group posted the Open Letter on the 11th but they didn't see the concert until the 15th?

The "SALAD SALAD SALAD" bit reminds me of that one episode of Coupling...
Patrick and Sally both have flashbacks of the party where they met. Patrick remembers describing his car in intricate detail but only remembers the party serving sausages. Sally remembers a wide variety of hors d'oeuvres but remembers Patrick's description of his vehicle as "car".

Hey Mac: I'm trying to find some common ground here as you seem to be really upset. You have more in common with deaf people than you think. As the self-proclaimed largest gay choir in the world, I'm sure some members of the choir know what its like to be ridiculed, ignored, isolated, fired, not hired, glass ceiling-ed, by oppressive majority power holders. Deaf people also continue to suffer through and fight oppression and share similar experiences of many oppressed minority groups. As a holiday performing choir, I'm surprised the choir wouldn't do everything they could to be giving during the holidays, especially to a group of minorities asking for a simple accommodation so they can enjoy the show just like everyone else. Kind of a scrooge like moment for the choir, don't you think?

MacCrocodile: "demands that go beyond what is reasonable." The offered "reasonable" solution of keeping him and training him is like saying, "Okay, this physics teacher doesn't actually know how to teach physics, but we'll keep him on and train him to do it better." (When there are a ton of qualified physics teachers out there looking for a job, and when their training took years and the passing of difficult certification tests.)

Hey Mac: I'm trying to find some common ground here as you seem to be really upset. You may have more in common with deaf people than you think. As the self-proclaimed largest gay choir in the world, I'm sure some members of the choir know what its like to be ridiculed, ignored, isolated, fired, not hired, glass ceiling-ed, by oppressive majority power holders. Deaf people also continue to suffer through and fight oppression and share similar experiences of many oppressed minority groups. As a holiday performing choir, I'm surprised the choir wouldn't do everything they could to be giving during the holidays, especially to a group of minorities asking for a simple accommodation so they can enjoy the show just like everyone else. Kind of a scrooge like moment for the choir, don't you think?

floater: "I don't understand why deaf people are going to a concert." Being deaf doesn't always mean being stone deaf. Many people are deaf enough that spoken language cannot function as their primary language, but with enough residual hearing to be able to enjoy music. (It's about certain frequencies getting distorted when you partially lose hearing. It's complicated.)

Sargon Bighorn: "I would think the accuracy goes WAY UP but then the translator is still signing when the chorus has gone silent 6 minutes ago." This is simply not how skilled interpreting works, especially for an artistic performance where they've had a chance to work out their interpretation in advance. It requires a great deal of skill and experience to be able to be able to jump the gulf between one language and another, and get across not only the literal sense but also the naturalistic intention, and do it compactly. This is what interpreters learn to do in all their years of training.

And just for fun, here is a video of a comedian playing on the differences between bad (in this case overly-literal) interpreting, and interpreting that goes for the SENSE, using the resources of ASL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2nX41Kvn…

Also, check out the ASL Shakespeare Project, for a glimpse into how truly skilled artistic interpretation can work:
http://www.yale.edu/asl12night/project.h…

It is clear to me that the comments are a personal vendetta in a deaf community that is more bitterly divided and backbiting than the gay community. If this actually HAD been brought up before that would be different but now it is simply on the heals of the funeral debacle in South Africa.

Btw here is a news flash, the words being sung aren't always that easy to understand either for hearing people. That's because it isn't the spoken word, it's art, just like the song interpretation that Kevin does. If you had issue with his spoken word work then you might have something, but you don't and every one of us that "speak" ASL hearing or deaf know it.

@60 - Again, I object to the comparison. Based on the specific allegations, it'd be more like saying "This long-time physics teacher flubbed some details about physics. It is the sort of mistake that can be avoided in the future with a refresher of his training in physics, but let's fire him, and just keep doing that until we find someone who doesn't make mistakes."

@61 - And dismissing him after 30+ years of service is a "simple accommodation"? I think that's where we disagree. Not that the length of his tenure in any way outweighs the needs of the community, but let's not pretend that replacing a man many of us and members of the audience have loved for years is a "simple accommodation." To dismiss him would be a disservice to our own community, and to the devoted fans who come to see him. It seems clear that there is a disagreement as to his qualifications and his style, but the people who don't like him do not get to make demands on behalf of the people (deaf and hearing alike) who do. A discussion is welcome, but this isn't a discussion; it is emotional manipulation by a group who claims to speak for a community that is not united behind them. Being an underprivileged class doesn't give them carte blanche to have whatever they want. They are bound by the same rules of a mature and honest discussion as the rest of us. And yes, I recognize the irony of my call for a mature discussion after all this.

@66: WHICH members of the audience? With which members of the deaf community have you communicated?

I don't say this as a person with a vendetta against this man; I am a language researcher who lives in San Diego, not Seattle. But I have a number of colleagues who do research on ASL and deafness, and I am sensitive to how the community's needs and opinions are often overlooked by hearing people and organizations.

If the interpreter's presence primarily serves the deaf community, and they are dissatisfied with his services, why is it not worth catering to their wishes?

Translation is a tough, tough, tough gig. Simultaneous translation of sung material even moreso. I asked earlier whether the interpreter rehearsed with the ensemble - I'm a native bilingual of English and French and I don't see how I could musically interpret and translate between the two languages without rehearsing, which is why I asked. Even if we allow that maybe somehow someone could be an excellent interpreter without formal training and certification, a lot of skill goes into it. The deaf community says his are lacking, even after 3 decades of service. If you yourself don't have ASL language skills, why can't you take their word for it?

@67 - He does attend rehearsals. I must admit I tend to be absorbed in my own work with the music to keep tabs on what he does with that time, but I know he does spend each quarter reviewing the show and planning his interpretation.

And can we please draw the distinction between the particular people behind this movement and "the community"? The Community, any community, rarely makes unified declarations as it is being implied in this thread. No one speaks for all the deaf community, and anyone who claims to doesn't have much of my attention. I'm afraid I can't produce a litany of names of deaf people, but I can relate anecdotally that we have indeed received positive feedback from deaf members of the audience for Kevin's interpretation. I'm afraid that's the best I can do with the information I have access to at this time. Is this ultimately to be decided by counting up all the deaf people on each side of the argument?

I have read the letters on the Deaf activists' blog, read the Seattle Times article, listened to the KIRO radio interview with Frank Stilwagner, viewed this KING5 news piece, and now read the SLOG article. It is unclear to me why Katie Roberts and other Deaf community members have not reached out for face-to-face conversation and problem-solving with Flying House Productions, the non-profit organization that runs Seattle Men's Chorus and Seattle Women's Chorus. I am sympathetic to the concerns about access for Deaf and hard-of-hearing audience members and I acknowledge that I do not have the skills to evaluate Mr. Gallager's ASL interpretation. However, I like to think that together, Flying House and the concerned Deaf community members can come to a win-win solution for all parties. (Not "my way vs. your way," but a third way that all parties participate in creating.) As a hearing person, I find Kevin's work to be beautiful - he interprets music with his body in a way that is thrilling to audiences. I did not know until this week that Kevin does not follow grammar rules of ASL and that his beautiful work, is unfortunately, not meeting the needs of Deaf patrons. As a supporter of both SWC and SMC, I take this concern about accessibility very seriously -- but I would encourage both sides in this debate to come together for conversation and joint problem-solving. It seems to me that Flying House is willing to do this, and they are open to working with the Deaf community to come to a reasonable, win-win solution. It is unclear to me whether Katie Roberts is open to having this conversation... my impression from the blog and articles is that Ms. Roberts is taking a less flexible approach and hiding behind the 'list of demands.' I think a more productive solution would be to meet with leadership of Flying House (exec. director and board members), with a professional mediator if necessary, for some conversation that will help increase compassion and understanding on all sides. I am hopeful that whatever solution comes out of this will ultimately improve access for Deaf patrons and I encourage all sides to work together to reach that goal.

@69 - I am confused by your post. You have read the letters on the blog, yet you say you don't understand why the bloggers didn't go to SMC face to face? Did you read all of the letters? I read several that discussed private direct contact with SMC. It did not work. It is not the community's responsibility to bring issues up from square one every time there is a change in leadership, it is not their responsibility to keep track of what communications SMC has kept.

What would be a reasonable compromise? Is keeping someone who is not qualified for years while he supplements his education is not reasonable. Community groups have suggested other compromises in the past and have been flat out refused.

People are throwing out words like "flexible", but aren't being solution-based. What would this flexibility look like? How would KG and the Deaf community both "win" when there has been no change whatsoever since the inception of this situation? Now is the time for those not expressing an informed opinion to go do your homework and those with actual ideas to pony up.

@68 About "The Community", all one have to do is know the ASL and watch Kevin. It is the technical part that is enough to tell you Kevin is not qualified for the job. Nothing personal about it. I get it the members of chorus and some of audiences (deaf or hearing) have been with him for 30 years, that's hard to break, but again, it is not personal. The quest is very simple: Deaf audience wants to understand the show.

It is about getting proper service for the deaf. If must, just hire qualified interpreter(s) and have them stand along with Kevin. He can continue what he does, entertaining the others, while the qualified interpret.

Yes, I have seen some videos of Kevin, and I must say I thought his sign language wasn't good enough. It was lacking information, not conveying the show.

just a deaf

Or just take Kevin's designation as "ASL interpreter" out of the program and replace it with "interpretive dancer." Then distribute a hand-out of the show's lyrics.

BTW, under the ADA, accommodations have to be "reasonable."

MacCrocodile , I believe you are sadly mistaken. As a certified sign language interpreter with over 30 years in the professional field, I would be able to take the Asian song and deliver it into American Sign Language where it would be understood at least by 97%. What Kevin is delivering in American Sign Language is maybe 1% of the song. We are communication facilitators , not dancing performers. We are only here to provide what we hear into American Sign Language in this type of show. I have done countless shows in hundreds of different capacities and I would NEVER deliver a show in the capacity Kevin has. Shame on Seattle Men's Chorus for ignoring and being ignorant when it comes to this issue. If they took one trip to the Kennedy Center in Washington, DC they would learn how to hire professional skilled interpreters. Watching the videos I have seen of Kevin leaves me appalled this person is on stage and it leaves me angry. His skills only oppress the deaf community and violates their basic human right to hear/see what the hearing participants are hearing/seeing at the same equal pace. That is why we are extensively trained and work hard to provide this service in the utmost professional way. Kevin has done none of this and it is time for him to swallow his pride and step down. And it is also time for you to get educated on the deaf members of society and the professional work that sign language interpreters provide before you can form any stupid opinions you may have.

@75, have examples of harassment and dishonesty on their blog?

I still await any verifiable documentation ...see my posts #34 and #46. Demanding (not asking or suggesting-----demanding) that somebody be fired, as we all know, is a serious thing. To be taken seriouslly, I await such documentation of ongoing requests for meetings from 1989. Anybody who has ever worked in any position where they have fire somebody knows that documentation is key.

I also find it interesting that post #57 has not been addressed.

Y'know, I'm brushing up on the Russian I took back in college so if you want me to help translate... I mean, it'd probably be broken as hell, missing all the subtle nuances and very likely would involve the phrase "I am go snow" a lot, but that's close enough, right? Guys?

This isn't "like" physics or math or anything like that. This is about language, plain and simple. If you were trying to get an interpreter for someone who spoke Spanish or Russian or Arabic, I don't imagine you'd settle for someone who turned the carol into "Please tell are you to be listening to sleigh bells that ring?"

I'm glad Kevin is committed and thrilled he means well, but this isn't about a frivolous little tchotchke for a handful of audience members. This is about language and clear communication and if a vocal portion of the community is directly affected by a lack of clarity there, the chorus would do well to heed their advice as it's not a trivial matter for them.

Who knows, you might even sell more tickets.

I am a certified ASL interpreter with a specialist certificate in legal interpreting. I have been an ASL interpreter since 1987, certified since 1989.

I sang with the Seattle Women 's Ensemble from 1984-1987 when I became their ASL interpreter. I worked with an interpreter mentor experienced in musical performance interpreting. That interpreter later became my co-interpreter and together we provided deep meaningful accurate interpretations of the Seattle Women's Ensemble performances as well as performances of artists they were performing with (Venus Envy -with Lisa Koch, Dos Falopia - with Lisa Koch & Peggy Platt, The Righteous Mothers, to name a few).

During those years the Seattle Women's Ensemble performed a yearly Christmas Eve midnight concert at the Egyptian theatre with the Seattle Men's Chorus. I was appalled at the SMC's interpreters lack of knowledge and ability with ASL. My Deaf friends who attended those Christmas Eve concerts were also appalled and disappointed at not having full access to an incredibly fun evening of song.

Some of those Deaf friends are the ones who contacted the SMC in 1989 in an attempt to rectify the situation. I remember the heartache and deep disappointment at having their suggestions rejected not only by the SMC director and board representatives but by the interpreter himself.

It is fascinating that the suggestions made by that group of highly educated, intelligent and bi-cultural Deaf individuals were to offer mentoring in ASL to the SMC interpreter and recommend that he educate himself further in the language of ASL by taking classes. Those suggestions were rejected not only by the SMC leadership but by the SMC interpreter himself.

I remember and shared the pain of those rejections felt by Deaf people who were offering help to the SMC and their interpreter for free. I remember the disappointment at being rejected time and again in subsequent attempts to rectify the situation. I remember the day those individuals gave up trying because their expertise and offers of help had been soundly rejected over and over again.

I also am friends with some of the members of the current attempt to gain real access to SMC's performances. These are also highly educated, intelligent & bi-cultural Deaf people. They went public because private attempts at rectifying the situation dating back to 1989 (I was there, I have first hand knowledge) were met with absolute rejection. I remember and I stand as witness that the truth is being spoken here by leaders in the Deaf community, leaders who are universally recognized & honored for their work in removing barriors for all Deaf & Hard-of-Hearing people.

It is astounding to me to see the vitriolic and hurtful responses posted here and in response to the Seattle Times article by individuals who clearly have absolute no knowledge of ASL or Deaf culture. I hope one day you will educate yourselves before you speak.

And I hope one day Deaf Lesbian and Gay people and their straight allies can attend SMC performances and truly be able to understand and enjoy the the performance because it is being interpreted by an ASL interpreter who is skilled enough to do the job correctly.

I wouldn't say that it's unfair to compare this to the South African incident. Yes, there's no real similarity between an enthusiastically inept interpreter and an actively delusional one, but it isn't really about *them*. They're just the symptom of the real problem: organizers who take pro forma actions to provide access for the hearing impaired but who don't actually give enough fucks to make sure that they're using a competent translator.

That's the core of the insult in both cases. They're saying to an entire community, 'We're doing this because we have to, but we don't really give a shit about you.'

If anything, this situation is the more insulting of the two, as it involves an organization standing behind their insulting ineptness for decades of shoddy service, where the South African case is just a particularly startling result of bureaucratic delegating and buck-passing gone horribly awry. The South African government's never going to fail to vet a translator again. The SMC, going by this response, continues to not really give a shit.

@62 Okay, okay. Gotcha.

Chris B @81: Your right, I should have stuck to the domain of language for my analogy. Here's the revised version:

Suppose your organization provides an English/Spanish simultaneous translator for public performances. Then you discover -- oops! -- he doesn't have any training in simultaneous translation, and, worse, isn't even fluent in Spanish. Native Spanish-speakers say he's not producing coherent Spanish.

Do you a) keep him and send him to remedial Spanish classes because monolinguals think he's great and love to listen to "that Spanish-sounding stuff, it's so beautiful!", and anyway you're not sure you believe those native Spanish speakers, maybe this is just a matter of personal preference among hispanics?

Or b) fire his unqualified ass, no matter how much you like him personally?

@75 "you "refuse to believe". That is the underlying truth. Read the diagnostic I did of Mr. Gallagher. Take it and a video of the performance to another diagnostician for independent verifcation. Your disbelief doesn't alter reality.

When SMC sings Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus", is Kevin expected to 'spell out' HALLELUJAH each time it's sung? Or after one 'hallelujah', would it be OK for him to sign 'ditto'? Several years ago, SMC sang a number wherein each letter of 'schadenfreude' was rapidly sung, and Kevin faithfully signed every letter as fast as possible. But was that understood by their non-German speaking/hearing patrons? Removing Kevin from SMC would be tantamount to deleting 'love' from the TV hit, "I, Lucy". SMC puts on musical shows, they're not reciting the Declaration of Independence. As a half-deaf person, I could not enjoy an SMC performance by watching a proper interpreter continually because there is so much other show-biz action to take in. Granted Kevin may need a coach, but so does Cinderella.

@88 Sounds like a hasty generalization. The argument "It doesn't wok for me, therefore it will not work for anyone else" is an empty one. Just because you are "half-deaf" doesn't mean your needs are equivalent to the needs of the greater deaf community.

Why would you want others to not have access just because the current system works for you? Even if I loved Kevin and his performing style, if I then learned it was unintelligible to other members of the community, I would want them to be able to participate as I have had the privilege to do myself. Your argument is rife with ignorance. It is a good idea to fully research what you are talking about before you decide to speak.

@88 Sounds like a hasty generalization. The argument "It doesn't wok for me, therefore it will not work for anyone else" is an empty one. Just because you are "half-deaf" doesn't mean your needs are equivalent to the needs of the greater deaf community.

Why would you want others to not have access just because the current system works for you? Even if I loved Kevin and his performing style, if I then learned it was unintelligible to other members of the community, I would want them to be able to participate as I have had the privilege to do myself. Your argument is rife with ignorance. It is a good idea to fully research what you are talking about before you decide to speak.

Happy winter solstice everyone!!!!! May your heart be filled with light and peace.

No... not my perennial favorite "Asian Christmas"!

This interpreter's role is a job, not a performance. Big difference.

People who are not interpreters stop making interpreting analyses. You look foolish. You. Don't. Know. You like Kevin. We get it. That doesn't change the deaf minstrel show he has been running for 24 years. Even if the mud-slinging you are doing at the deaf people who are complaining were true it doesn't change the cold, hard facts. Kevin Gallagher is not a qualified interpreter. From all the work I've seen he doesn't sign well enough to ENTER an interpreter training program never mind graduate one and pass certification (which usually takes an interpreter several years of practice after graduation to pass). The first thing I have always taught my interpreting students is "it's not about you". It's time Kevin learned that.

A choral performance is not a language performance with music -- it is a musical performance for which some of the instrumentation happens to be words. The whole notion of sign interpretation for choral confers seems silly -- no matter how perfect the signing, you might make deaf audiences feel more welcome and more accommodated, but they would be no more capable of appreciating the performance than a blind audience at the ballet.

@86: what you do is you acknowledge that signing for a choral performance can never recreate the experience. That's not the same as Spanish/English: even if a deaf audience perfectly understands the words and meaning of the singing, they are not experiencing the concert in any meaningful way, because it is a CONCERT, and it is about MUSIC. Words are just an instrument; translating them 100% does nothing to translate the melody, harmony, and instrumentation, which are every bit as much of the performance. Insisting that instead of poorly understanding 30% of the performance you should be able to clearly understand 30% of the performance seems pretty odd.

@9 and @10: where rate the complaints over that time? There is no evidence that anyone has ever registered a complaint at all before now. A few have insisted that they have, but they are unable to support that claim with a shred of evidence.

@9 and @10: where are the complaints over that time? There is no evidence that anyone has ever registered a complaint at all before now. A few have insisted that they have, but they are unable to support that claim with a shred of evidence.

@42: access has to be meaningful. Just signing the words does not give a concert experience, because a concert is a musical, not just verbal, experience. Access needs to make sense; building ramps so a motion-challenged person can get into an auditorium makes sense, but flattening the ski slopes so they can go to the same snow as their friends does not.

I'm still waiting for any verifiable documentation of any ongoing attempts to work with the chorus over the past 24 years. Not a peep so far......

#94:

Your comments on Kevin's lack of ability just proved to me that your up-until-now- hidden-agenda is no longer hidden. You may not realize it, but you just lost this battle by admitting your extreme bias against him even being "trainable".