Comments

1
Interesting that big property owners would be the ones on the hook, if Seattle picked up the tab at all. So why is a "progressive" like Goldy defending big Downtown property owners and developers? Same reason he defends Hedge Fund Managers and machine politicians that have never run in a real election.
2
They could just cancel it and just rebuild the Viaduct but the rich property developers would be angry at Mayor Murray for not selling out Seattle as promised and building them a private tunnel for rich peoples "green" limos to get to their private jets and stadiums
3
Totally, the city of Seattle cant afford the cost overruns!!!

ps, Hey I found 200 million in the couch for a new spots arena!
4
@2: no. no rebuild. don't even joke about it, because it makes you sound like Emmett Watson.

a seattle waterfront freed from an elevated highway will be a boon to the city for all time. property owners are going to make money. so what? they're going to make money regardless.
5
U just jelling @4
6
Hilarious! We never fucking learn.
7
and the attack on the embassy in Benghazi wasn't fueled by a YouTube video that it seemed nobody could identify.
8
Just a note~
Tunneling projects frequently have cost over-runs of up to 20%. On a $3bil project that's $600mil. This is not like other projects. This is by far the most ambitious tunneling project in human history. The cost over-runs could be ENORMOUS(>$1bil). For perspective, Seattle's rainyday fund is $30mil. Whoever winds up paying it, its a big deal.
9
@4 No. The rebuild was preferable to this. Traffic diversion means we're replacing the Viaduct with "Aurora on the Waterfront".

The rebuild was going to have a much smaller shadow and visual bulk than the current viaduct, and it would have been stacked over the boulevard, not alongside it with a sea of parked cars underneath. It would have gotten us grade separation between pedestrians and most of the vehicle traffic.

The only thing worse than an elevated highway is a surface highway, and that's what we're getting.
10
I am a little worried the tunnel is going to be really stupid, but still... no viaduct!
11
Since, as The Stranger is always quick to point out, Seattle generates all the wealth and pays all the taxes in Washington State and every other municipality is just another freeloading poor relation, what difference does it make if Seattle launders that money through Olympia or not?
12
Why would progressives want the state legislature to pay cost overruns? They would just extract the funds disproportionately from lower income people, using their tax structure which is the most regressive of any state.

The negotiated deal (now state law) says cost overruns are to be paid for by property owners who benefit from the tunnel. This assessment sounds like a better plan to me than either regressive state taxes or regressive Seattle taxes. Mayor-elect Murray is a good choice to collect on it, since he supported the tunnel deal.
13
Why would progressives want the state legislature to pay cost overruns? The R-controlled legislature would just extract the funds disproportionately from lower income people, using their tax structure which is the most regressive of any state.

The negotiated deal (now state law) says cost overruns are to be paid for by property owners who benefit from the tunnel. This assessment sounds like a better plan to me than either regressive state taxes or regressive Seattle taxes. Mayor-elect Murray is a good choice to collect on it, since he supported the tunnel deal.
14
@9
"Aurora on the Waterfront"
About time someone got the hookers downtown where we really need them!
15
At least we'll get a new stop on the Underground Tour --- "See Bertha! World's Biggest Tunnelling Machine, stuck forever underneath Seattle!". It'll be pretty cool! And who knows, might even bring in some extra revenue to help offset the costs of the machine itself.

Two major recent bad decisions: Ginormous Highway Tunnel, and Raising Everyone's Liquor Prices by at Least $10/Bottle. :-P

@8 - I kinda thought that digging the Chunnel was the most ambitious tunneling project in human history. This is more ambitious than that?
16
@15

Close, but the most ambitious tunneling project in human history has been undertaken by countless school-age youths equipped with plastic shovels seeking alternate passages from their backyards or school playgrounds to the Cathays.
17
@13: And I suppose 'property owners who benefit from the tunnel' could be progressively extrapolated into meaning all Seattle property owners.
18
The chunnel used a total of 11 TBMs and made two tunnels of 25ft diamter and a service tunnel straddled between them. We're talking only 1000 sq ft cross-sectional area. Seattle's using 1 TBM with no "service tunnel" encountering obstacles first as a pilot tunnel and drilling 54 ft diameter holes. That's a cross-sectional area of about 2300 sq ft. It's plenty ambitious.
19
@15
At the time, the Chunnel was for sure the most ambitious. This trumps that. This is the widest bore tunnel ever in the history of the world. That means that the technology is new, custom built, and that no one has ever used it before. This is also under a fully developed urban center, so the risks are way larger. And there's the soil. Oh god the soil. If this was NY the urban center part wouldn't be a big deal cause the city sits on an enormous piece of granite(mostly). Our city is built on enormous boulders carried from Canada by glaciers, pro-glacial lake sediment, and everything in between. Its a geotechnical nightmare. So there's that.
Also the machine would be basically unrecoverable. It can't back up more than a yard or so. Imagine the city buying 4 blocks downtown, demolishing them, and digging them up to get the TBM. That would cost some money maybe.
I have a love/hate relationship with this project. I love it because I'm studying to be a geotechnical engineer and I find it super fascinating and exciting. I hate it cause I just can't imagine it all going smoothly, and it's high risk.
20
@15
You're so right! :) My ambition has been going way downhill since that invisibility machine fiasco.
21
@19, if you read Full Rip 9.0 you realize just how bad that "soil" is. They were dumping every bit of trash in the city into the water to make that soil.
22
@18 @19 appreciate your insights
23
@9: wrong. an elevated freeway is always the worst solution. i didn't want the tunnel, either, but there's no way the planned alaskan way boulevard is going to be 'aurora ave'. it's not going to be a quaint cobblestone lane, either, but 'aurora'? that's just hyperbole.
24
@21
I haven't read that. Thanks for the suggestion!
@22
Thanks!
25
Thanks @16, 18, 19!

If Bertha is truly stuck, I will have my plastic shovel at the ready to help out. That tunnel to the Cathays was totally worth it, AND successful, so I'm ready.
26
The discussion around "overruns" at the time of legislation was geared around scope-creep - putting more project features, such as new interchanges, wider lanes, etc. on the tab that would most directly benefit adjacent property owners - not on technical overruns. That's why the elected officials keep saying that it's not enforceable. An cost overrun associated with unforeseen soil conditions is not something that can justifiably hung on adjacent property owners the way an extended tunnel alignment that opened up new waterfront property could.
27
@26
I sincerely hope you're right about that.
28
To the best of my knowledge there's never been a project even kind of like this that didn't have massive cost overruns. Any politician who thought otherwise isn't worth my time. They're an insult to my humanity, die scum. Stealing my money for a shit tunnel. Don't they know I complain about things on the internet?
29
@25

I think the tunnels to the Cathays are still ongoing, but on the plus side, I don't think there have been any cost overruns.
30
@26: I know several people who lived in Boston or environs during and after the "Big Dig" who have not had to declare bankruptcy nor sell their children into slavery to help pay off the tunnel.
Indeed, cost overruns happen on huge tunnel and infrastructure projects. Sometimes they are attributable to unknown soil conditions, sometimes opportunities for including unanticipated project features or amenities that can be incorporated into the larger project without a great deal of complication.
The project team must take into account the enhancement of the City as a whole, not just the narrow-minded cranks and "know-it-all" amateur engineers.
31
To be fair, it is not just my opinion that it is a high risk project, it is the opinion of the lead risk management engineer. They have been diligent about trying to avoid it, but it is still there, as evidenced by the TBM being stuck, the sonar not having shown any obstacles, and the fact that once the machine is past SafeHaven 4 the whole thing HAS to go smooth(risky).
Im an optimist, but this simply IS a risky project. Look deeper into it if you disagree, and see how you feel after you do.
32
I have many friends and co-workers who are unemployed because of this "blockage". The dump truck drivers that haul the dirt away, the people that haul in the tunnel segments, the mechanics that work on said dump trucks, the fuel companies that supply the diesel for the equipment. The only group that doesn't bother me about the slow down are the Longshoremen assholes that are hopefully sitting on their worthless, overpaid asses trying to figure out some scam to sue somebody because they can't get paid for something that they wouldn't work for anyway. At least the Teamsters put in the hours for their pay, the Longshorewhores just get something for nothing.
33
This is exciting for us pessimists though.

before it shipped from Japan they delayed inspection because something was out of alignment with the cutting head.

about 400 ft in we had the sinkhole and this wonderful view.... If there has to be soil failure, this may well be the best place.
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2…

now we're 1300 ft in and it's been down for about a month blocked by something as intractable as McGinn's sense of self-righteousness.

at least it'll spend most of its time tunneling under 1st avenue after this. I'd hate to see the traffic wreck that would happen if 3rd avenue caved in.
34
#33 You certainly are a pessimist. Just think of the Union work that would provide! Maybe some of those unemployed Union bosses from the Boeing Machinists Union could come down and be laborers. That would be a dream come true. I hope heads roll at the Machinists Union, serve them right.
35
@30: I guess it's a good thing that I'm not an "amateur" engineer then.
36
Whatever happens, McGinn doesn't have to worry about it. Losing surely wasn't much fun, but every cloud has a silver lining.....
37
I believe Mayor McGinn was the right person for our city... Murray is not!. Murray created this mess. He forced through legislation and votes irrespective of the Seattle area votes and wishes and declared 'victory!' when his deceptive Proposition was passed. He is the 'Old Crony' government man who is now working his 'magic' in Seattle. Buddies with a number of Council members who represent the interests of the rich, Murray is a slash and burn candidate for whom we will be cleaning up messes for many years to come.

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