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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
Get a new girlfriend, this one's defective. Partners who think there's a kind of sex that is incompatible with love need to be returned to the lot.
The reason for the mixed signals is because admitting that you have incompatible desires might make you act the way people dating incompatible partners are supposed to act. I mean, look at what you write, dude:
I feel rejected and my feelings blatantly disregarded, having been in this position for so many years - but I also can't tell if that's unfair of me.
This isn't the sign of someone who is in a relationship with the right person. If you're questioning whether you have the right to your feelings, that's a really bad sign. Get out, get some self-respect. This will mean learning to ignore people who say you don't deserve any.
@1 is right: you are just incompatible. It's not a matter of you feeling entitled to her ass, it's that you want ass in your life, and this person doesn't want to provide it. Find someone who will. I'd bet dollars to donuts this isn't the only tar-baby-like death-by-a-thousand-cuts incompatibility in your relationship or even just in your sex life, and those are the real reasons your sex life has gone to hell.
Good luck.
You seem to really want a clear, verbal, yes or no answer, and she isn't giving you that. But if you've experimented with fingers and plugs and whatnot for many years, and she has never responded positively or initiated other anal play, then she very obviously isn't into it. She's giving you a very clear non-verbal 'no', and you're not getting it. She doesn't like it, and probably never will. She's consenting to let you try it occasionally when you push it, because she's trying to be a little GGG maybe, but she doesn't like it. For whatever reason, she's having a hard time verbally saying no, but her desires seem pretty obvious to me.
Stop waiting for a definitive verbal "no". Assume ass is off the table. Now... where do you want to go from here?
(Dan doesn't, for example) why expect your girlfriend too?
Did you just read the letter long enough to establish that he's male, and then decide to skip right ahead to the condemnation?
Of course you want to try anal sex. Most men do. It's a new experience, a new chance for intimacy with your woman, and a way to spice up your sex life.
And it's understandable that you're upset that the woman who may be your life partner won't go there with you, because that means it's never going to happen for you. You're mourning the loss of that experience, and that feels like shit.
As for her waffling, a lot of women really suck at direct communication, and sometimes that can be maddening, especially when it's about something that's important to you. She's having it both ways - she doesn't want anal sex, but she doesn't want to be the one who doesn't want anal sex. And she's resorting to indirect jabs like that bizarre comment about buying lunch. As a result, you're stuck in an emotional tarpit that leaves you feeling invalidated and confused and guilty and angry.
Here's the deal - as millions of straight men who've been though similar situations can tell you, anal sex is not going to happen with this woman. Ever. The first step towards getting out of the tarpit is for you to accept that fact along with all of the feelings it brings up in you - sadness, anger, resentment, whatever, just give yourself permission to feel what you feel.
That will give you some clarity about what to do next - e.g., break up, hire a professional who advertises "greek", find a sexual adventure she is willing to try, or just accept the loss of that experience from your life and focus on the experiences that are available to you.
She's never going to let you fuck her ass. Never.
If that's a deal breaker, then tell your wife that.
Done.
@4, It's a nice sentiment, and he should give it a shot, but I'd bet the farm if she doesn't want to get fucked in the ass, offering to let her fuck his ass first isn't going to magically change her mind.
Entitlement is a red herring.
People want what they want in a relationship, and they become disappointed when their partner doesn't come through.
Now, after taking it up the ass for years I learned to enjoy it over time, but not once did I enjoy fingers or a toy there. The LW's GF is farther along with anal pleasure than I ever got, I think he should go for it, with the understanding that his GF is enduring it through submission, rather than through a burning desire to have something hard up her butt. Diamond earrings at the very least.
This kind of explicit YES but passive NO can be incredibly damaging to people. At a level like this, it is painful to one person, but ramp it up and it becomes abusive. Ironically, Matisse was featured in an SL from July 9th about one of those ramped up situations. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Savag…
For those who did not read it a former dom was dating a guy (a former client no less) who had told her he was OK with her previous sex work, then promptly used it to shame, control, and isolate her from her friends at every opportunity. On a scale of 1 to 10, that is at least a 9, while HELP's situation is at most a 2.
Ergo, 9's comments are much more appropriate: acknowledging HELP's frustration, agree that the passive NO is what his partner is really saying, and how he should move forward or end the relationship.
Or maybe I'm just projecting...
He's discovering- very belatedly- that the price of admission with this woman is not only no anal, but no real interest in fulfilling his interests sexually. Anal is not that high of a bar to clear, said as a straight man who happily takes it up the ass.
As he pointed out, she's done it with somebody else (badly). Which comes back to the trust thing; he takes it as a deep insult that somebody who was theoretically less important to her made it into her butt and now she doesn't want anal.
He didn't use the word wife, he didn't mention kids. He's feeling unconnected from her. I'm wondering what's going well with his relationship. At the very least, he should go have an affair and remind himself what it's like to have sex with somebody who wants to have sex with him. At worst, he should GTFO of this relationship. I recommend the affair first because it might give him a release valve of good sex to give him more time to figure things out with the lady (but really I don't expect anything to change with her). And it's going to be an affair; somebody who won't give an honest no to anal will not be giving an honest yes to the hall pass question.
You know this how?
Or does he require that she beg for it?
He's been shot down about this a lot. He knows that it's beyond her comfort zone. He's pissed or sad or something that she won't go further faster beyond her comfort zone. He says nothing about how he's gone beyond his own comfort zone for her.
If she sees him enjoy it, and feels what it's like to peg a guy, it's going to make the whole thing less scary. Not sure why @9 passes this off and goes straight to breaking up or cheating or getting over it.
Additionally, going through a kink list and learning what types of things really turn her on, and trading off on fantasy fulfillment may help if she won't peg him. Hopefully after a decade they already know lots of buttons to press during more vanilla hands/mouth/intercourse types of sex that they can incorporate into pegging and anal. I was also really surprised that rimming wasn't mentioned.
@1 Bad sex is pretty incompatible with love. Sex that does not feel good physically or mentally. She probably knows that anal can feel good physically, so she must not like the idea. I agree with MM and the comments that LWs approach could have something to do with this along with her past. But I hope that you are not saying that sexual boundaries are unacceptable, or anything goes or she's defective. Hopefully you are complaining that she's implying that no one would enjoy anal, or projecting her discomfort.
Does anyone else get the idea that both HELP and his partner are older? [Makes me wish that age/gender were required on all posts.] He calls her a "great gal". Unless "gal" is idiomatic to a particular region, to me it sounds like what a man of a certain age calls a woman because, when he was younger, the world was made up of girls and men. If she's too old to be a girl, then she's automatically a gal.
I think my assumption of her age might be aided by her association of anal sex to a loss of respect. Otherwise the lunch-buying comment doesn't make any sense.
HELP is not winning me over by only talking about what HE wants to do in bed. Has he encouraged her to explore? His being GGG would be far more of a barometer to more sexual variety than having her peg him. And, even if she's being passive aggressive, he's doubly so – because he's actively avoiding sex. Nope, no pressure at all.
The motivation to go through with it comes completely from the actions of the partner who wants it, who must do everything in their power to make the receiver feel safe and loved and sexy. He has to earn it! He's not going to earn it by begrudging her attempts to be GGG. He's not going to earn it by withholding sex because she just won't directly tell him no anal. That's such bullshit.
She may eventually let him do it once. She may find it's her favorite thing. She may never come around. But he's going about it the totally wrong way.
Grow a prefrontal cortex, LW, or do her a favor and break up with her.
I agree that, in fairness to her partner, she should be more direct; I agree that it's great to be GGG whenever the activity in question isn't something that's going to actively cause you distress. But the assumption that the sexual subordination of female partners in hetero relationships is something that's owed if the guy in question can offer Expensive Stuff is regressive and gross. There's nothing wrong with making a voluntary choice to trade sex for gifts, or to do actual sex work, for that matter. There is something very wrong with assuming that women's sexuality must be for sale regardless of whether the individual woman in question has actually made that choice, or that men's superior access to material resources outside the bedroom translates into some kind of presumptive right to inequality inside. I think having a serious conversation about it, offering to fulfill some of her fantasies in return, and accepting that the subject is off the table if she doesn't go for it seems like a much safer and more egalitarian approach to the issue.
Of course not. Clear double standard.
I'm not saying that LW's GF is "required to go for it" just because a pair of diamond earrings might be offered, but it sounds like the LW hasn't even tried this approach. If he's waiting for her enthusiastically all on her own to beg him for anal, that's not going to happen. Pretty much everyone here agrees on that. I'm just saying that before he throws in the towel on anal or on their relationship that he should try a different approach and see what happens. It would require him to put himself in a vulnerable position and show his desperation through expensive gifts, and he might not want to do that. But if he's okay with that, what does he have to lose?
Diamond earrings or some other expensive gift is not the same as cash. Her sexuality isn't "for sale" with the exchange of gifts.
As someone who spent their childhood as a girl in the South, I can tell you why she's apologizing and insisting she enjoys this thing she seems to despise. This woman doesn't want to hurt the LW's feelings, since anal sex is clearly very important to him. Yet her comment about lunch belies her own feelings of disgust. She's worried (rightly, perhaps) that the LW will dump her if she doesn't get with the program, so she plays along and tries to avoid the subject.
So anal's not her thing; for reasons X,Y, and Z they make her uncomfortable. And that's not so foreign as the bros in the comments would have you think. I've certainly dated men who were uncomfortable with the idea of getting fucked in the butt- even if they were totally down to fuck mine. The straight guy with an anal phobia is practically a stereotype!
I agree with the commenters that the relationship might be headed for splitsville, if the LW's anal fetish is really really about anal sex; and not the taboo, or the difficulty of it, or (and I hope this isn't the case) he wants anal sooo bad precisely because she won't give it.
Taking his letter at face value, the girlfriend is, frankly, a lying, slut shaming bitch, he has every right to feel resentful, and he is getting very close to DTMFA territory.
He approached her with a new (and not that extreme) request respectfully and patiently, and she LIED through her teeth. Even if she thought she would eventually come around, she needed to 'fess up 5 and a half years ago when she made up her mind.
And her "why would you want to [buy lunch] for someone you want to fuck in the ass?!" is slut shaming, pure and simple. That is never okay in a relationship, especially when the request has been made respectfully.
This coulda, woulda, shoulda been a simple price-of-admission situation at the beginning. He asks, she says "not gonna happen" and he decides if he wants to continue the relationship. He knows the price of admission (anal is off the table) and he knows that he will have to decide how important anal is to him.
But the girlfriend lied to keep him around, and then kept jerking him around, hopefully shaming him until he stopped asking. And if she did ever consent, she would almost certainly have made it so awkward and uncomfortable for him that it couldn't possible be enjoyable and he'd know to never ask again. That's what happen when a dishonest partner can't just say, "um, really not interested in going there," and then strings the partner along and manipulates the situation.
Now, if he decides the price is too high and wants out, he looks like the asshole for thinking anal sex and sexual honesty is so important. And worst of all, Matisse, your response pointed out to HELP that his girlfriend is lair, but excuses it and continues the shaming by telling him to "get over it"!
What could have been a simple "maybe we're not so well suited for each other" situation 6 years ago will now be either an ugly breakup or will build so much resentment--not just for the lack of anal, but for the dishonesty and manipulation that he will be reminded of every time he want to go anal--that the guy cheats.
If this guy dumps her, I think he'd be totally justified. If he decides he can pay the price of admission, she owes him a huge apology and possibly a hall pass for some outside anal.
I'm going the opposite way. I think that after years of being pushy and one sided about ass play, they should only have pegging sex for a month or two. Maybe 10 times. Once she builds up some confidence that she can satisfy him anally, and sees and feels that it's sexy not mean, she should agree to open her ass for his dick as well. If his girth is above 5", or maybe even if he's not, she should have a toy in her butt while she jills off for a week or so first. Since she'll also be trying to forget her anal accident, a sign or phrase for stop moving or get out right now may also be helpful, so she feels in full control in case it starts to remind her of her past.
But because these cultural expectations are still present and really quite pervasively applied to women who AREN'T sexually submissive, or at least haven't chosen or agreed to be submissive in the particular situation in question, I'm very wary of any suggestion of submission (or of transactional sex) as a normative model of female sexuality - either as a way for women (who are not self-identified submissives) to enjoy sex acts that they find prima facie unpleasant or painful, or, especially, as a way for heterosexual men to understand their partners' thinking about sex. ("I really don't want to do this, but I'm not comfortable saying no because a good woman should accept suffering for her man." "It's OK for me to insist on sex acts she finds painful or degrading because she'll get off on submitting to me? Yippee!" "Who does she think she is to say no in bed when I'm the one who just bought her a new car?" I know that's not what you meant, but it is the way a hell of a lot of people actually think.) If the submission = hot link isn't present in the individual woman's brain, it could just increase her feelings of discomfort in her relationship and difficulty finding the confidence to clearly articulate her own desires and boundaries - which, to me, sounds like the main problem in this relationship in the first place.
As to what he has to lose? She could feel even more pressured than she already does, or betrayed when her thought process goes from "oh, how thoughtful" to "what does he want in return?" She could just feel insulted at the thought that there's anything she would do out of love for shiny trinkets that she wouldn't do out of love and affection for her partner of many years. I would be.
Agree that the anal sex / lunch comment was stupid, but that was years ago and sounds most like the result of being sheltered or ignorant about sex. Suspect that she was hoping she could learn to like it or find it less painful, and thereby work her way up to it, but never really did and perhaps keeps telling herself that maybe someday ... because it's easier than saying no and facing disappointing her partner. Agree that this is exactly the wrong approach, and she ought to be more direct - they're both partly in the wrong.
I never understand why people bother with this childish, passive-aggressive, and insincere "offer". I believe Dan suggests it to dissuade the man, not to force the hand of the woman.
It's on par with "jump off this cliff for the love of me" being answered with "hey, you jump first".
If the guy jumps, then he proves he thinks it's safe enough. So you can either proceed with caution and have some hope not to get hurt, or decide that you don't have his physical prowess, and abstain. But he's made the point that it's indeed no big deal what he's asking of you.
If the guy doesn't jump - then he proves that the risks to his person are in his mind more important than the pleasure he would have in having you jump. What he's asking of you, he wouldn't do it for himself. If once he's realized this, he dares to ask again, then he proves he's a selfish coward in matters of sex, and has no regards for your safety, even less for your enjoyment. And that is a DTMFA offense.
But among the "find a sexual adventure she is willing to try", I would put #4. If LW's wife is down to pegging him, maybe she could at some time grow fond of the idea of anal on her, maybe. If she's not, well, anal sex isn't ever going to happen in that relationship.
Of course, if pegging is presented with "okay, I would even let you try pegging on me if you promise anal will happen with you afterwards" it's certain that it will lead nowhere. If you want to enjoy her ass, you have to make your own ass sexy to her. If you reinforce her ass=unsexy chore feelings, you're bound to fail. Nobody likes chores.
Besides, she's pretty GGG to let you do all those stuff with her ass, despite her finding ass totally gross. You should thank her for getting that, before you whine for more. Diamonds earrings are overdue here.
@42 If you think an offer to fuck a man's butt will naturally dissuade a man from anal play, then why don't you believe that an offer to fuck a woman's butt will naturally dissuade a woman from anal play?
@43 That's a nice fair argument. Assuming that a guy asks for anal solely to satisfy his dick and doesn't want to make it nice for her. But I don't actually think that kind of guy is fit for a relationship, I don't like selfish prudish un-ggg sex. For me, "You go first" is if it's good for you, I can similarly try to make it good for me. I say it when I doubt that my lover's suggestion could work for me. I've also used it when suspecting an offer was in bad faith per your example, and dtmf prudes who can't give what they ask for. Sex satisfaction is important. But I gather HELP wants her to want it, so he should attempt to show her what's in it for her.
How about, "Can we do something else? This isn't working right now."
As a guilty woman, I am very, very sorry about the "explicit YES but passive NO" tactic. Women do sometimes suck at being direct. But do understand two things:
(1) We are not necessarily consciously lying to you. We may be trying to warm up to it for your sake. We may fail, but we didn't intend to deceive.
(2) If men resort to whining, begging, pressuring, crying, insulting, intimidating, and harassing us when we say no, or demanding that we justify our refusal and accepting no reason as good enough, we'd just as soon say "yes" but climb out the bathroom window.