What Happens After the Fall of Mars Hill?

Comments

1
Exactly.
2
Don't be sad, Mars Hill folks! You can come join the new church opening soon in Spokane!

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/se…
3
I'm not from Seattle, but here in Toledo, we have our share of some really shitty big box churches, and here is a level of schadenfreude in watching this whole thing go down. Why? Because I know it's only a matter of time before our big box bigoted churches go down to the tubes too. My main exposure to Mars Hill has been through here, Alternet and the Huffington Post, and their stories sound all to familiar to what's going on in my neck of the woods.
5
Snap! Young people should learn to have faith in themselves and not some salesman.
6
MH is a cult and its members are victims. They're not innocent, but they're victims nonetheless.

Not the elders. Those guys should do time. I'm sure that misuse of church funds, tax evasion, fraud and conspiracy could be combined to rope them in. The financial damage they've done pales before the psychic damage they've inflicted on their congregations, but its the only tool available.
7
MH is a cult and its members are victims. They're not innocent, but they're victims nonetheless.

Not the elders. Those guys should do time. I'm sure that misuse of church funds, tax evasion, fraud and conspiracy could be combined to rope them in. The financial damage they've done pales before the psychic damage they've inflicted on their congregations, but it's the only tool available.
8
As long as people need simple answers for life's comex problems and mysteries, religion will flourish and new Driscolls will be there to take advantage of them.
10
Big Christianity in America should be promptly dismantled, but it will fail on it's own no matter what. To reference one of the parables, these places were built by foolish men on foundations of sand.
11
Everything old is new again.
12
the letters F-A-I-T-H tattooed onto his biceps
Barf.
13
Shorter MH followers (by way of quoting the ever quotable "Monty Python's Life of Brian"): "I say you ARE the messiah! And I ought to know - I've followed a few!"
14
@10, that will be when the Rapture happens; after that, you'll have nothing more to worry about.
15
This seems pointlessly unempathetic. Yes, some people leaving Mars Hill will learn nothing, and return to a new flavor of the same shit. But some others will reflect on what was wrong with the place and learn something from it. I don't understand why they couldn't see Driscoll for what he is immediately, as you and I could, but that's a reason to feel fortunate, not superior. When people learn and make progress, you accomplish little by sneering at them for not learning sooner. (Your own wonderful writing on your mother's journey to accepting a gay son is a testament to that.)
16
Gee Dan, they were just following orders, er, Jesus.
17
Kudos to Pope@5. Why are people such low-self-esteem shits, serving themselves up to these self-appointed God-deputies?
18
An aside, a great point in Grapes of Wrath, at an impoverished 'okie' work camp, travelling preachers (charlatans/witchdoctors) would show up, work the marks into a lather and pass the hat. Later a rule is enacted that the charlatans may enter the camp but not take up collections. The charlatans stopped showing up.
19
The whole thing was/is like a giant Milgram experiment, which isn't surprising, just sad. It just takes one sociopath and throngs of naive fools to create a crazy cult.
20
This is why Driscoll never should have left. He was the perfect representative of his church. If you don't like what Driscoll is selling, maybe you need to quit that religion.
21
Yawn.

I'm pining for the days before the SLOG's Mars Hill and gun control fetishes. This shit has been boring for a long time.
22
holy fuck! Hillsong is still around? that's sad. The first time I heard of Mars Hill I immediately thought of Hillsong so I presumed they'd imploded by now
23
Dan, it's times like these when I envy you're having a newspaper - ok a local newsweekly, but whatever - from which to crow "I told you so" and heap much deserved scorn...

Sadly, yes, as soon as one false prophet or wolf in sheep's clothing is revealed - just like Shrub is now excommunicated from the GOP for being "not a real conservative" - another fresh one springs up.

And endless supply of bigoted suckers ready to be fleeced...all tax-free!
24
Hillsong are huge in Australia. Hillsong are hugely influential in government and charity (with strings attached, of course). Hillsong are like you most bigoted of denominations, but combined with proper media savvy largely concealing their vileness from moderates who find it hard to believe they could ~really~ think something like that.

My local Hillsong member for parliament told me personally it was a shame I didn't kill myself instead of corrupting society with my homosexuality.

For a clearer explanation of their moral and ethical rigor, they are closely affiliated with the ~enormous~ Benny Hinn Ministries - the most cliche of theatrical 'faith healers'.
25
@21: Bullshit. If you don't like those aspects of Slog, you never agreed with Slog.
27
@14 - I wish - more than the saved - that it would hurry up and get here.
28
@ 26, or for deeply needy people to realize how not to be suckers for the next con man with a collar.
29
" Picking corn out of his shit".. Thanks Dan. Another really helpful image.
30
right on! but depressing nevertheless. Which is why I never could get down with utopian thought. Too many repetitive patterns like this throughout history. And unfortunately ignorance is not an option... it may be that comedy is the only refuge? So sad...
31
#6 & #7, "MH is a cult and its members are victims.."

The poor poor bigoted, sexist Mars Hill congregation victims!

Their "church" was promoting hate and spewing hate speech, and the poor poor victims went along with hate just fine, because they're victims!

It's not like they could have gotten out of their seats and walked away from the hate, or anything, because as victims! they were nailed to those pews.

I mean it's not the victims of hate speech (the dispossessed gays, the suicidal gay teens, the gays who are bashed, forbidden marriage) are as victimy, as the victims! Mars Hill Congregation who were nailed to those pews!

32
@23 - no, the people rejecting Shrub were perfectly happy to support him AND his rather obvious policies, with all the obvious and attendant cognitive dissonance regularly demonstrated by "the faithful" (particularly of the Calvinist predestination variety) about the disparity between the beliefs as expressed in theory and as applied in reality, until the utter failure of those policies - as practiced - come thundering down. At which point they denounce the fallen leader, and find a fresh one with whom to once again engage in cognitive dissonance (hypocrisy).

That's why Dan's 'fuck you' is so appropriate. It's also why people who were happy to shit on others, right up until the point they were shit on themselves, are undeserving of much sympathy. There's very little admission of personal culpability - of perhaps something in yourself being flawed or wrong.

But you're quite right: I don't expect these people to admit - least of all to themselves - that they're idiots and the things they've long and deeply believed and thought are bankrupt and a failure. Much easier to scapegoat. The more evidence appears, the more firmly entrenched in their cognitive dissonance they become.
33
34
I'm old enough to know that people will fall for all manner of nonsense as long as it doesn't require a lot of reading or long periods away from a screen. As long as I don't have to listen to the Martians on the bus and there is no violence involved it's OK with me. The fact that the biggest and most outrageous Mars Hill scandal is rarely if ever mentioned is what pisses me off.
Several years ago Mars Hill hosted a proponent of corporal punishment for all children, including infants. There was some controversy and objection from outside the church and it all lasted about a minute in the media. I thought perhaps an edict to "go forth and spank your baby" was insane enough that it would bring down Mars Hill. Not only did it not bring MH down, it received almost no press - including "The Stranger".
Mars Hill also gives tacit approval to spousal abuse, but endorsement of domestic abuse is not sexy enough to garner widespread condemnation. We have laws against assaulting adults, but under 18 you're fair game. The schools no longer allow for corporal punishment and there are laws that protect children from extreme abuse, but we need a law that says unequivocally, "no hitting or hurting children...ever". I'm all for letting people believe whatever bunk they choose as long as that bunk doesn't threaten or interfere with the right of others to be protected from your bunk.
35
Agree@33.
36
This post should fix the italics.
37
I think this should
38
sidenote: shouldn't your CMS software handle verifying if a submitted post have closing HTML tags and fix it if it doesn't?
39
ugh. bad grammer: *has closing HTML tags*
40
^ also bad speling :)
41
i'm loving all of the comments and thrilled that people are finally realizing what a charlatan driscoll is.
42
@26

Way to rock that groupthink. Keep up the good work.
43
But somehow some of these "churches" survive, just look at Overlake who's founder got busted having sex with minors. MH never had any kind of governing structure to keep Driscol under control. I would say ease up on the flock and put most of the blame on the leaders. You should know better than to give booze to an alcoholic. You may be able to take advantage of stupid people but you shouldn't. JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE and get a real job.
44
Watch out for Hillsong, they are another hugely wealthy, politically ambitious megachurch. Peter Bowditch has been watching them for a decade:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/hi…
45
A collection of articles about Hillsong's anti-gay, anti-abortion, sign-your-welfare-payments-directly-to-us teen shelter (funded by a huge national chain of coffee shops that also acts as a recruitment channel): http://mercysurvivors.com/tag/ruth-polla…
46
Another fun side project of Hillsong was releasing albums of "groovy" "with-it" Christian music. And managing to get their churches registered as a chain of record shops. So their albums all went to #1 on the Australian charts, as they simply reported their own supposed in-church sales to the chart company.
47
Maybe no one is giving you credit for hating Mars Hill *before it was cool* because it's pretty obvious you're the sort to hate just about all Christians of any variety?

You're like a rabid McCain, salivating at every fanatical Muslim terrorist attack, saying "I TOLD YOU SO!" and wondering why no one thought his blanket skepticism of all Muslims was so prophetic.
48
Maybe no one is giving you credit for hating Mars Hill *before it was cool* because it's pretty obvious you're the sort to hate just about all Christians of any variety?

You're like a rabid McCain, salivating at every fanatical Muslim terrorist attack, saying "I TOLD YOU SO!" and wondering why no one thought his blanket skepticism of all Muslims was so prophetic.
49
Ironic that people who espouse small government love huge fucking churches.
50
There seems to be a formula for the big mega churches and their pastors http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/christian…
51
Hmmmm, just FYI, Hillsong as a global brand predates Mars Hill Church by about 10 years. I had the very odd pleasure of attending an Easter service (back when I did that) at a Hillsong church in London. The oddity comes from the fact that it was held at The Dominion theatre, which was (is?) playing We Will Rock You and had had a 30 foot high golden statue of Freddie Mercury on the roof. They put on a pretty sweet show, with a slam poet, black Jesus, a bunch of rock music, and super friendly vibe... ...aaaand then I went back the next week and they'd invited a "ex" gay man / cross-dresser to come talk about how God had "cured" him.
52
In his resignation letter, Driscoll pretty much gushes about how he hasn't been seen unfit to be a pastor... hmm, now why would he be so interested in that?
53
I've missed you, Dan. You have your own way with words. And, Hillsong has been around for a good long time. Someone actually gave me some of their music CDs about 15 years ago. Not my cup of tea.
54
You all are members of the biggest mega-church ever - The Church of Baal. Sad part is, you are just as deceived as the members of Mars Hill that you gleefully roast in this article and comments.



The principal pillars of Baalism were child sacrifice, sexual immorality (both heterosexual and homosexual) and pantheism (reverence of creation over the Creator).



Ritualistic Baal worship, in sum, looked a little like this: Adults would gather around the altar of Baal. Infants would then be burned alive as a sacrificial offering to the deity. Amid horrific screams and the stench of charred human flesh, congregants – men and women alike – would engage in bisexual orgies. The ritual of convenience was intended to produce economic prosperity by prompting Baal to bring rain for the fertility of “mother earth.”



The natural consequences of such behavior – pregnancy and childbirth – and the associated financial burdens of “unplanned parenthood” were easily offset. One could either choose to engage in homosexual conduct or – with child sacrifice available on demand – could simply take part in another fertility ceremony to “terminate” the unwanted child.



Modern Baalism (a.k.a liberalism) deviates little from its ancient predecessor. While its macabre rituals have been sanitized with flowery and euphemistic terms of art, its core tenets and practices remain eerily similar. The worship of “fertility” has been replaced with worship of “reproductive freedom” or “choice.” Child sacrifice via burnt offering has been updated, ever so slightly, to become child sacrifice by way of abortion. The ritualistic promotion, practice and celebration of both heterosexual and homosexual immorality and promiscuity have been carefully whitewashed – yet wholeheartedly embraced – by the cults of radical feminism, militant “gay rights” and “comprehensive sex education.” And, the pantheistic worship of “mother earth” has been substituted – in name only – for radical environmentalism.


55
15

This seems pointlessly unempathetic. Yes, some people leaving Mars Hill will learn nothing, and return to a new flavor of the same shit. But some others will reflect on what was wrong with the place and learn something from it. I don't understand why they couldn't see Driscoll for what he is immediately, as you and I could, but that's a reason to feel fortunate, not superior. When people learn and make progress, you accomplish little by sneering at them for not learning sooner. (Your own wonderful writing on your mother's journey to accepting a gay son is a testament to that.)



x2