@104 I don't think 93 says what you think it does.

What is wrong with you?

@99: No. The implication of my comment is that if someone believes they have been raped, they should report that to the appropriate law enforcement authorities. I have confidence that, in the case of my alleged rape of Eudaemonic, that the authorities will reach an appropriate conclusion in deciding whether or not to pursue charges against me.

As I am the accused in this case, I will leave it to others to decide whether or not an accusation of rape made by one pseduonymous Internet user against another, where there is no evidence that the two have ever been within 100 miles of each other, is "a ridiculous waste of time" or not.

@102: I am not suggesting that conviction rates are a 100% accurate reflection of reality. I am well aware that there are other factors which can impact them and which a reasonable person would recognize. But there are limits to what can be considered reasonable.

The conviction rates for rape in the study I quoted show that 99% of convicted rapists are men. You say that the "reality" is that only 60% of actual rapists are men. A quick bit of math shows that for this to be true then rapes are currently under-reported by 65% - as a minimum, assuming that the under-reported rapes are all committed by females. So for every three convicted male rapists in prison, you suggest that there are at least two female rapists on the outside.

Regarding victimization, the statistics I reported are that 95% of victims are female. You say that the "reality" is that 50% of victims are male, Again, a bit of math shows that there has to be at least 90% under-reporting of rapes committed against men. For every ten female victims of rape for which a conviction was obtained, you suggest there are nine male victims who never received justice.

I am quite prepared to accept that there is under-reporting and under-conviction for rape and sexual assaults committed against men. But the numbers you claim as "reality" are statistically so unlikely as to fall into the realms of fantasy.

@106, Google "made to penetrate." The numbers look much as Eudaemonic suggests. Usually the men don't feel they can complain about the assault, for cultural reasons. And in any case, our society doesn't see that kind of assault as rape (or even as a crime, usually).

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/d…

http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/feature…

@107: Thanks for those links, there is definitely some interesting information there.

A lot of this discussion clearly hinges on questions of how we define rape and sexual assault. The study I linked (pp. 31-32) uses definitions that focus a lot on forced penetration and forcible assault. And cases where force is used are clearly going to be ones where convictions are easier to obtain given the likely presence of physical markers that the assault took place.

The definitions used in the APA study include a lot of non-physical coercion as well, e.g. "Told a lie... Said there must be something wrong with you if you didn’t... Threatened to break up with you... They used their authority or position... Took advantage of you being drunk or high." These are also situations where female victims have difficulty being believed. It is completely reasonable that for male victims these types of incidents will be under-reported.

I also wonder about the data on sexual assault against minors and the extent to which this is included in conviction statistics for rape, or if there is a set of offenses and victims where these are reported separately as offences against children. It could be that some of the "missing" stats for crimes against men can be found there.

As I said @106, I am quite prepared to believe there is under-reporting of sexual crimes committed against men. What I question is the overall frequency of it. I have difficulty believing the victimization rate is 50/50 particularly when we are taking about forced penetration.

This does not mean I don't take assault and coercion that falls short of forced penetration seriously. It just means that I'd like to compare apples with apples.

I also believe that the under-reporting of sexual crimes committed against men is not a valid argument in discussing the issues women face in having their claims of sexual victimization taken seriously. Every factor that makes it hard for women to come forward and be believed also applies to men.

@107 I see, so sex assault in general seems comparable for both sides. I'd disagree that made to penetrate is not treated as a crime. Doesn't change the higher risks of
sti transmission and
internal damage
with legal rape, or forced penetration, but the forced parenthood implications of forcing men to stay inside instead of pull out are comparable. Not the being pregnant or having an abortion or giving birth parts though. Luckily parents have the freedom to sign away their parental rights at birth, but it doesn't solve the problem of unwanted children, it shifts it to the state.

Rape is a tough crime also because a basic difference between M and F is sex. It's a feminist topic in a weird way, because it's not appropriate to apply male standards to females or vice versa here, either assuming both sexes or neither can get pregnant is inaccurate. So equal treatment can always be debated.

Maybe Eudaemonic is arguing for sex assault in general to be taken more seriously as well. I don't really know.

@100

"It is at least as terrible and traumatizing a thing to have a false allegation of rape leveled against you. "

No, it's not. Get yourself raped, and you'll see by yourself that it's much worse than being falsely accused of anything. Or rightly accused of anything.

"If you are actually raped you do not have to fear losing your children, your career, and your liberty."

What a tool you are. Get your head out of your own ass and have a little empathy for rape victims, whose life may never recover, while yours isn't one tenth as threatened as you'd like us to think. Even if you did rape your wife, the conviction rate for raping women is so low it's a joke.

But your total lack of empathy for rape victims is quite sinister, in the context of what you're accused of.

@78

"Children absolutely lie about rape."

Children who give details consistent with rape don't invent them. Either they were told to say so and so, and they're not emotionally involved in what they're saying. But I don't call that children choosing to lie about rape ; I call that children being instrumentalized by adults.

Or they've lived it. And it shows. Big time. Pedopsychiatrists and judges don't miss it. But the testimony of raped children can change later on, usually in the sense of claiming there was not been a rape, even when there is obvious medical evidence there was. So it's vital to videotape every confession.

Children don't invent out of nowhere stories of being raped. They don't themselves make up lies about being raped, if you prefer.