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Comments
I'm not a 20-percent on the post-tax total including your outrageous wine mark-up kind of guy. I can live with this.
Also, this is not a law just for waiters. It is a law for all low wage earners. For every waiter earning 2% less on the year, there are dozens of other earners now getting 20% more in take home pay. Society is about giving and taking, not just demanding every law serve your type of people.
Have you ever done food service, restaurant or catering work? Believe me, it IS a real job, particularly when it requires dealing with people of your ilk. It's your kind of "fuck the minions" mentality that made $15NOW necessary in the first place.
Instead of trying to cost shift onto wait-staff, prices should simply have been raised on menus to bring all wages in line with the new law. Wait staff will continue to get tips, though likely less since not all of us will feel obliged to make up for cheapskates in management and stiffers (like, I'm betting @1). I've watched my average tip climb from 15% to 20% (better for exceptional service) simply because I'm a former restaurant worker and all too well aware of the eroding minimum wage.
Yes, of course service will decline when they are expected to do the same work for substantially less pay. I'm not sure why anyone expects it to be different in this industry just because tipping exists.
If you ever DO eat out, then you're paying for a service performed by employees working a real job.
The Stranger wishes Seattle consisted solely of service industry types serving other service industry types. Just a city full of servers and bartenders. Don't you know that?
http://www.thestranger.com/news/feature/…
It is a real job and I don't think you could pay me enough to deal with all the d-bags that I would have to deal with as a waiter. Tipping is a good thing for won't keep good people otherwise and the prospect of good tipping encourages good service.
Only in Seattle do the Liberatti believe that the essential laws of economics are suspended. If you raise costs, demand will diminish. So yes, there will be fewer of you working, and fewer people dining, and fewer people tipping. You were warned. Don't act surprised or butt-hurt about it.
Why is it so hard for Lefties to look at the trajectory of history and see that more and more government has never – ever – sustained improvement in the condition of humankind. Government's only interest is to help government. And the more you vote for it, generally the shittier things get -- long-term.
Finally, wages aren't set by employers. They are set by workers who accept those wages. If you don't want minimum wage: 1) Stop accepting it. 2) Raise your skills.
We should all thank The Stranger for causing these people to have to now leave their jobs. And, not just at Ivar's.
Folks - this is just the first restaurant to do this. This is just them trying to keep ahead of the press, get some good press...but at the great disadvantage of their actual co-workers. But, it's a great cautionary tale.
Angela Garbes then hilariously writes, "In order to better compensate their lowest-paid employees, restaurant owners could accept lower profit margins. Instead, they seem to prefer to ask customers to pay more and, potentially, servers to make less." Yes, Angela, because all those small business owners can just "accept lower profit margins". WOW. Amazing. Another Stranger reporter that does not know enough to know enough. No, Angela. No. Small business owners - not Ivar's, not Tom Douglas, but the other 99% of small restaurants or bars can't just "accept lower profit margins" of the kind that would be needed to reach this $15hr MW.
TIP: The Stranger reporters - you need to professionalize yourself. If you don't know the facts about an issue, just positing your opinion is not what real the profession of journalism does.
"accept lower profit margins". HA! I just love that. So..cute!
Mostly this non-issue is something the corporate titans are using to scare the "little people" in hopes of derailing support for fair wages.
Notably absent from the article is how many restaurants "strongly recommend" (hint: retribution if you don't) tipped staff to "tip out" again to back-of-house staff in order to support those inadequate wages. Tacitly that is illegal, but there is zero enforcement of that law. In other parts of 'Mericuh, tipped staff make as little as $2.15 per hour BECAUSE they are tipped.
Just because the system exists doesn't mean it is good labor policy. The rising tide of fair wages will lift all boats.
Tried to defend it for a day, admitted it was made up, but stuck by the message like some new age preacher man.
"“The service inherent with tipping is a huge part of the industry here and what makes dining out enjoyable,” said Shawn Berner. “I explain the menu, I make suggestions, I describe flavors and textures, and I make sure the kids are fed first. I EARN the tips I receive. I don’t believe that ‘just anyone’ could do it for as long as I have and continue to smile every day.”
“Seattle is a high-maintenance town, food-service-wise,” said Sarah Fox. “They want to talk about where their salmon came from, what kind of hops are in their beer. People will still expect the same standard of service that they had been getting for 20 percent [tip].”"
Sorry but service in Seattle is not very good on average. You'd think it would be way better than other places since servers are making a good bit more money but it doesn't seem to translate. I almost always try to avoid table service, it is awkward and slow. Ok, I'm ready to leave now so where is that waiter? Oh right, nowhere to be found. After three tries I've flagged them down so that they can go get the check. Then come back and hand it to me. Then disappear again, no, wait, take it back and run it please. No, we don't want any dessert, let me mime a full stomach to defuse this awkward hard sell situation I'm in. Always preferable to just order and pay up front or at the end at the register. Or better yet, take out.
And just to be clear, waiting is absolutely a real job. It looks like hard work and I would not enjoy it. However it is also a job that requires no special skills or education so you will always be competing with everyone else who showers semi-regularly and can manage to regularly show up on time. The surest way to higher wages is to develop unique skills.
And no, that is the case in plenty of other states with a tip credit: http://houston.culturemap.com/news/resta…
And why would minorities make less money? What, you think we can't provide fantastic service? You are just another racist liberal prick.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/your-…
" However it is also a job that requires no special skills or education so you will always be competing with everyone else who showers semi-regularly and can manage to regularly show up on time."
So, what exactly is the problem with having a chateauneuf du pape with spicy garlic shrimp? If someone orders a thick ribeye rare, what do you say and why? Does one pre-bus the ice cream in the same way one pre-busses the entree? What is an intermezzo? Can you name three classic aperitifs? What is the difference between French and English service and could you adapt to a restaurant where the captain or manager said "give them French service" and handed you a spoon, fork, and large salad? Would you even know what she meant?
I could go on...
Fine dining is far from working at IHOP. If you think the people at Canlis don't have a skilled job, you are on crack. And it wasn't restaurant servers asking for this, it was those few adults working at McDonald's, most of whom are indeed losers, and a bunch of union thugs as well as the usual suspects of whiny white hipsters. Every restaurant server I know is getting ready to either get a new gig or start looking for a restaurant in Bellevue.
Been in the business 15 years, and NEVER have met anyone who was forced to tip out cooks. In fact, that is even already illegal most places: http://austincut.com/2012/08/iron-cactus…
And only the shitty server would want to see tips go away and just make hourly pay. I wait tables because I make a lot more on tips than most starting salaries in the corporate world.
Side note: restaurant managers are infamous for wage fraud to cut their labor costs. Oh yeah, and embezzling from owners. Truth is if their compensation and labor practices were fair, their theft costs would drop dramatically.
I agree 100%. I can't wait until January, when I get on that plane and head to Texas...and I am still waiting for an explanation from the 15Now fascists about how ohh how they will pass this law in Texas. "All 50 states..." yeah. Wendy Davis ran as a progressive on a $10/hour platform and she LOST IN A LANDSLIDE to a Republican. How will the socialists 15now pass $15/hour in Texas when they couldn't come close to electing someone advocating $10/hour? Still waiting for an answer...
Seattle is known for having awful service, mostly because the servers are paid too much. They are not working to earn their pay so they give shitty service, and 9 out of 10 servers here are whiny white hipsters who are just doing it because their parents don't give them enough to buy their favorite organic, vegan craft beer in the quantities they want.
In Houston, however, servers only bring in $2/hour, and the rest is what they earn. And they are making "awful poverty wages!"...ahh...actually...
http://houston.culturemap.com/news/resta…
And restaurant owners are mostly not rich. What about that Vietnamese immigrant owner of a Pho shop, who the 15now crowd probably refer to by racial slurs. Is she a part of the "evil 1%"? http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/to-s…
And if you want to talk about a bunch of cheating rich bastards, that would be the white upper class hipsters marching next to Sawant and Jess Spear tweeting "smash Capitalism" from their Iphone 7.
Tried to defend it for a day, admitted it was made up, but stuck by the message like some new age preacher man."
No, sir. Again, I don't blame you for your misunderstanding of both my opinion and any resultant propaganda about my actual statements. In a discussion replete with nothing but lies, distortions & misunderstandings, I don't blame you for your characterization of my actual statement and beliefs.
Just to clear it up -
Yes, I did write that.
No, there is not ONE "factual fabrications"
No, nothing was "made up". Thusly, I did not admit anything of the sort.
I do encourage you at any point though to ask to see the real numbers. Not only did Tom Douglas back up my numbers, but many, many small businesses have in the meantime.
Ivar's can handle raising their prices because they are in a much more high-profit environment than most small business. No, we cannot just raise our prices. We small businesses exist in an environment called 'Competitive Advantage/Disadvantage'. Most us small businesses cannot raise our prices or just make less income. We don't make much as it is, and our competitive disadvantage against larger businesses such as Ivar's makes it impossible to compete once we DO raise our prices. So, in order to exist, we will have to cut hours, cut services, cut quality. Many won't be able to compete, only to be replaced with a less-quality business or a larger one with a larger competitive advantage.
tike0vitz, I don't expect you to understand or accept this reality or these truths. Some of you will - but then, I think that those that are smarter are generally always smarter and behave as such. The others?
Status quo.
The point is from the consumer side it matters little whether there's tipping or prices rise and tipping goes away. We're paying either way.
Forced to live in a place you hate, working for a boss who trolls you constantly. Whispering in your ear how raising your pay, providing you with paid sick leave, and or overtime will force the business to close.
Sad poor little collectivism_sucks trapped in nightmare. His Libertarian Utopia always just a year beyond his grasp.
He readily admits he can't handle the heat in the kitchen!
This is something we want to be true. But it's not.
There are plenty of people with very unique skills that don't get paid shit. In fact the last thirty years of economic reality utterly defies this assumption. So called high-skilled jobs have seen steady decline in wages. Even high-demand skilled jobs in engineering. Wage suppression is nearly universal.
Except in the executive and Wall Street classes.
The average Fortune 500 executive possesses no real unique skill. They are a dime-a-dozen MBA's who barely do shit and in fact get rewarded even when they fail spectacularly.
No. The surest way to higher wages is to be born already wealthy and connected and be lucky enough to be an executive in a large public corporation.
The IRS treats them as mandatory wages, thereby making them vulnerable to people's largesse for their basic income. Which is bullshit.
And please take your condescending, myopic, untrustworthy charlatan self to Texas with Collectivism_Sucks.
Acting smarter is never drinking at Liberty and Good Citizen and telling others to do the same.
That's because everyone in Vegas wound up in Vegas by dropping their pants and losing their dignity. That's why they go the extra mile in the largest tourist town in the world.
@38 You are absolutely correct however, it is much harder to change what family you were born into than it is to develop a marketable skill set.
Excuse me while I let the invisible hand of the market correct this over time.
The only difference is that now, asshole servers can't stiff the back-of-house staff. Ivar's is splitting it between back of house and front of house for them.
Start here: http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.ht…
Diner: "This Spice-Rubbed Salmon with Herb-and-Pomegranate Raita looks delicious. Can you tell us where the salmon is from?"
Server: "Provo."
Diner's Companion: "Provo? Provo, Utah?"
Server: "Yes, that's right."
Diner: "Is it...is it a...Mormon salmon?"
Server: "Yes. And extremely fresh. You'll love it."
Diner: "Um, I'm sorry but we can't have it. We're both Mormon salmon-intolerant."
Server: "I'm sorry to hear that. You might be interested in the Chicken Fricassee. It's made with Mormon-free range chicken."
This is true. Most restaurants in Seattle don't have servers making $60K. They do at Liberty, but not at Denny's. There's little question that $15/hr. may help the lower-ticket-price restaurants. My take has always been not that some/many won't make more, but that it's going to harm many small restaurants/bars/retail. That's just a reality. And, when those businesses are hurt, that'll hurt the employees. If you really care about the people, AT LEAST ask all of those affected what they think, not just those from McD's or Denny's.
Past that, Doug @ 37 is cracking me up. Doug...have you done the math? I have.
Let's say that a server sells $1K/shift. That means that they'd normally have ~(for the sake of argument in a touristy place like Ivar's) $200. They'll tip back a bit, which will leave them with ~$160 walking.
So, how much now will they make? Let's see...
A six-hour shift (6 hours x ~$5/hr.) will mean an extra $30.
8% of $1K is what, Doug? Yes, that's $80.
Doug, what's $80+$30? That's $110, Doug, right?
Before, they'd have walked with $160. Now, they walk with $110, before any extra tips, which they are assured to make, but lordy only knows how much now.
Doug, those numbers are really easy to understand.
That's a ~$40 hit every time that they work (before some amount of assumed extra tips).
So, yeah... AND! On top of that, did you read what the ACTUAL Ivar's servers were quoted as saying? "The numbers don’t totally add up,” an Ivar’s server who wished to remain anonymous and who averages considerably more than 8 percent in tips told me. “Even with $15 an hour, I’m sure I’m going to take a financial hit.”
Why'r you picking on me when I just have related to you the facts? Didn't you even read the whole story?
Listen, we all want people to earn more. All I've ever stated - over and over - is that there's a smart way to do it, and a dumb way.
I'll let you decide which is which.
"The Numbers don't totally add up." Sound's a lot like your M O.
I guarantee that when you walk through the door, the servers all fight about who is stuck taking you.
Waiting is "entry level work", since when, pray tell? There are plenty of people who've made long-term careers out of waiting tables. Many of the ladies at the old Dog House had been there for decades; I think at the time they closed, the "youngest" had been around for a mere 14 years or so. And a Maitre d' or head waiter at a high-end restaurant can easily pull in a salary in the high five-figures. The stereotype of the dour, been-here-seen-it-all, don't-take-shit-off-nobody middle-aged hash-slinger at a local mom-and-pop diner is a veritable icon of American pop-culture, and for good reason, because you can find them in just about every small town cafe, suburban chain restaurant, or interstate truck stop between here and Miami. Like plumbing, garbage collecting, or any other job many would consider beneath them, there are just some people who like it, are good at it, and stick with it for the long-haul. Just because it's not a job you personally would care to perform doesn't mean it's not a viable career option for many others.
If I choose to eat in Seattle restaurant, I will not be tipping. If the wait service is bad, Yelp will hear about it.
Yeah, that's the sort of empty threat we expect from cheapskates like you. Check very closely next time you order the Fettuccine Alfredo - might be a little extra "sauce" in there, just for you!
You are so wrong. Seattle is a city of servers, bartenders, and ACTORS, all on Capitol Hill. There may be some signs of life in Ballard, although that's just a rumor. We need to prioritize any impact on these groups when considering wages, tax preferences, "incentives," etc. They are the economic engine that keeps Seattle running!
Why would minorities make less money? I dunno, maybe because they're offering to work for lower wages in order to undercut white workers, allowing them to get hired and the market to punish employers who discriminate in their hiring.
What's that? I'm racist for suggesting such a despicable notion? Nah bro, that one was YOUR suggestion in your rant against the very idea of a minimum wage. So, to answer the question, why would minorities make less money? Because collectivism_sucks, in his black gay libertarian wisdom, thinks they should.
@28: "Been in the business 15 years, and NEVER have met anyone who was forced to tip out cooks. In fact, that is even already illegal most places:"
From the post to which you are replying: "Tacitly that is illegal, but there is zero enforcement of that law." Shit, son, read the stuff you're talking about before you go shooting your mouth off. It's like the time you made claims about the pay gap between women and men and then posted a link to an article that refuted those claims.
@31: "Seattle is known for having awful service, mostly because the servers are paid too much."
Whaaat? I thought that in accordance with market principles, offering a higher wage increases interest in the position, creating a larger applicant pool and thus allowing employers to select only the best. If all that stuff about the free market is true, offering a higher wage should lead to BETTER quality work, not WORSE! Have the free-market nutbars possibly lied to us all???
I'll certainly miss his self-important masturbation-of-the-keyboard when he moves to Texas to live in his low-minimum-wage fuckwits' paradise. Eventually. One of these days. Once his lease is up and his employer finally folds. It's gonna happen for sure. OP will deliver.
Cheat sheet:
Some restaurants will use this as an excuse to raise prices.
Some restaurants will use this as an excuse to help equalize wages between the front and back of the house at cost to either the servers or the customers, who either will or won't accept that and will either quit or stop going.
Seriously doubt that - I rarely salt my own food, let alone render infertile vast swaths of agricultural land...
The problem is that none of you proudly announce your plan not to tip in person, you will allow me to provide flawless service, cater to your needs and wants, and then passive aggressively let me know on the tip line that you're taking a stand against me being able to make rent and pay off my student loans.
If you don't want to tip me, don't. Just don't be a chickenshit, and let me know from the get go. I'll make sure to give you exactly what you're paying for. I'll take your order, drop your food, drop your check, and won't waste my time with personal interaction with you.