A Little Something for the LGBT Students at Pennsylvania's McGuffey High School


I'm appalled at the equating of anti-gay sentiment with flannels. I'll never look at Grunge the same way again.
I understand the point you are making, but the methodology of measuring erections to indicate arousal is completely unproven. It's also used to really fucked up ends, especially in courtrooms.
It's really high time we got rid of the word homophobia. Phobia signifies fear. They aren't afraid of anything (except maybe their own homosexuality), they're just assholes.
Sorry but they ARE afraid. That fear may manifest as hatred, but it is still fear.

You don't go to such extremes to attack something you aren't afraid of. If they weren't afraid they wouldn't be bothered by it.

Be it homophobia, racism, misogyny, or pretty much any hatred of anything the root cause of all of it is some form of fear.

Maybe not fear of being attacked or physically harmed, but fear of something related to it.

Even Yoda knew that:

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
Dan, I think this advice is pretty horrible. The article already states that the dispute has gotten physical. There's a strong likelihood that further provoking these asshats coukd put the LGBT students (and their allies) in harm's way. Yeah these homophobes totally deserve it, but the kind of douche nozzle that will organize an anti-gay day, and throw around "faggot" and "dyke" loosely, won't exactly go "oh yeah, science!" and have a rational and reasoned change of heart.

Anyway, they need to be dealt with, but I'm just afraid that your advice, and the pressure cooker that is high school, will result in violence.
@2 - With men, there's no complicated point to prove. There's no significant "arousal" without an erection, and vice versa (with the possible exception of morning wood). Now, if you're saying that the equipment they use might be untrustworthy, I wouldn't know about that. But it doesn't seem like a hard thing to measure (yes, the pun).

@Dan - I know that pointing out the homophobes may be self-hate-projecting closet cases (SHPCC's) would be perceived as more implicitly anti-gay stuff by the kids, but it's just accurate, isn't it? What's negative here is not the homophobe's (stifled) same-sex attraction, but rather their hostility and hypocrisy. But again, I know that's a distinction probably lost on most high schoolers.

I understand your point, but the fact is, the violence is already occurring, and it wasn't the LGBT students or their allies who initiated it. While I agree violence is to be avoided whenever possible, sometimes you just have to stand up to it, confront it directly, because these asshats won't stop being violent, particularly if they think they can get away with it.
In other news, here's the Republican Party at work. Assholes one and all.


"In a five-page brief dated April 16 and submitted to the U.S. District Court of the Western District of Michigan, Snyder argues Michigan shouldn’t be required to recognize the marriage of Bruce Morgan, an East Grand Rapids, Mich., resident who’s suffering from brain cancer and married his partner, Brian Merucci in New York in 2013."

P.S. They've been together 7 years.
God Rick Snyder is an asshole. Makes me ashamed of my home state.
@3) Phobia can mean "fear" OR "dislike", so it does apply.

Apparently these assholes are unaware that flannel is totally gay:

@7 and I know what you're saying as well. Sometimes sticking up for yourself and provoking a fight (even a physical one) is better for your soul and your situation in the long run. I thought about that before my post. I think my ultimate concern here is that it's high school. That sort of confinement and proximity can lead to some really bad results, and I'm concerned that Dan's tactic may be too provoking (and I say this as someone that fucking loves to provoke).

I also do think these kids should fight back in some way. I just don't want to see any of them in the hospital...or worse.
Sounds like the administration and the district are doing the right thing by condemning this, but why aren't we seeing more? These people have threatened to murder their classmates. Why aren't we seeing a swarm of cops arresting these would-be mass murderers?
The 'day of silence' thing was stupid. No wonder there was a backlash. We can make progress without being obnoxious for harping on non-GLBT students to "feel our pain". I understand its intent, but it's starting to get annoying.
The world will never totally accept homosexuality, the nature of being a minority dictates that. Do what we need to do, of course. But leave the "forced" sentimentality and crying with candles in the wind aside.
I don't get the flannel connection to the anti-mo hate day. Hopefully, people don't start associating flannel with bigoted asshole, because I'm gay and I want to keep wearing mine.
@3: They are afraid of a world where their personal sexual choices are not seen as the "right way" to live. Look at Seattleblues' posts. They are heavy with fear and alarm that his nice, orderly world is being turned upside down because of what people do with their genitals.

All the "barbarians at the gate" nonsense he revels in displays his deep fear of homosexuals and what they represent in his hysterical and uneducated brain.
@15 Do you even read what you type before hitting post comment?
@Dan, these flannel wearing kids have been brainwashed by bigots parents. Taping articles on their locker telling them they're aroused by same sex might put them in white hoods ambushing gay kids walking home from school. Really risky. They're not you and wherever this hellhole is, isn't Seattle. Psychopaths could burn down homes if their wobbly masculinity is threatened
Hmm, maybe rather than gay-baiting, use their own twisted logic against them? Plaster up some different bible verses: "John 13:34 - 'A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.' —Jesus"
@15, How is silence, or any form of non-violent / non-forceful protest for that matter, "obnoxious" and "harping"?
Just wear a "Jesus Loves Me,"
How very sad. How fucking mind blowing. Idiot, scared little people.
@3 next you're going to tell my hydrophobic materials aren't actually afraid of water.
@20 - They're not, as needed. But anniversaries upon anniversaries of these (not only for LGBT causes) loose their punch and become formalistic and tiresome (except for those whose dispositions love this sort of thing - I suppose it gives them a sense of empowerment year-after-year).
@6 So you are saying that men with erectile dysfunction are never aroused?
I don't think think these little fucks are interested in sexual politics so much as establishing and reinforcing a pecking order. They are picking on who they consider low-hanging fruit--a group who is in their community under-represented, under-appreciated, and therefore vulnerable to abuse. Mob mentality recruited the rest.
I had to interrupt measuring my erection to point out that there is no such thing as science in PA.
@15, Observances like these will disappear the moment they are no longer required.

But let's look at your twisted fucked up logic: homosexuality will never be accepted, therefore everyone should accept the abuse as a natural consequence. Basically, you're telling the fags to go back into the closet. Your statement, although oblique and cleverly worded, is actually a statement of support for the bullies.
@27. I said "totally accepted" dear, that means every single heterosexual. Hence, your twisting of what I said is disgustingly stupid.
Why are the faces of those little shits blurred out? Didn't they post it themselves? It's not like they are victims or something.
@23, When people respond harshly to non-violent protest, it reinforces their necessity.
IF this happened as reported those physically threatening or assaulting other students should be dealt with by the school and the law if their behavior crossed into the criminal. It should be crystal clear to them that such behavior is not going to be tolerated. Whatever their sexual confusions, students should feel safe from physical harm at school. While these boys have a right to their expressions, they do not have a right to act in violence on that basis.

And I write that with neither qualifier nor comment on the LGBTQRSTUVetc club.

Except the obvious qualifier that HuffPo is a laughable site. And Savage is not an honest source of anything. Well, nothing but his own bigotry and virulent hates and that paranoia he has that some vast conspiracy is abroad to rob him of his right to personal depravity. So, if it's all the same, I'd need an honest source to believe it as stated here.
See, everyone look closely at the last paragraph in #31. Look how much Seattleblues fears Dan Savage and the ideology he represents. He has to attempt to (laughably) attempt to discredit him even when it has nothing to do with anything. That is fear, it is just hard to see, and a fear that is apparently always bubbling at the surface.

If people like Seattleblues just hated Dan Savage or gays, they would just isolate themselves from it. But here he is, reading and commenting on Dan Savage EVERY DAY, reinforcing his own beliefs to himself. He is terrified.
@31, Are you new to the internet? HuffPo is a blog, not a news site; it aggregates information from multiple media outlets and embeds links to the sources in the post, so you can verify them for yourself.

Here is one from the story you just commented on -- you should read it lest you make yourself look stupid again:


And these cites to HuffPo and Joemygod and the other echo chambers and outrage mills your shabby little god Savage must constantly peruse to assuage his (real, and demonstrated by his vile hate filled language and lies) fear bubbling away? What of that, Ted?

You, and people like you, are in fact a threat to this country. Savage and his ilk are merely a symptom of the cancer. You were right. You and those like you are the barbarians at the gate. But fear? Of things like you? Please. Real Americans are more than capable of dealing with barbarians. We have cured ourselves of cancers before and will agsin. Remember how the anarchy and chaos of the 60's became the Reagan revolution?
I would say that Seattleblues has just given everyone a really good reason why protests and moments of silence in support of minority justice are still absolutely valid and necessary in our society.
@34: To paraphrase that exchange:
"Dude, you spend loads of time asserting your opinion to people who strongly disagree with you and are not at all swayed by your arguments. Why do you do that? Could it be that you struggle with doubt and are doing that to try and convince yourself of the things you say?"
"Oh yeah? Well, well, you guys spend lots of time citing news articles from sources that agree with you!"
dude what
No, no. It doesn't accept the premise as being true, only as being believed as true by the homophobes. Because if they were gay and not homophobic, they would be OK people.

Using people's beliefs, true or not, against them is another discussion entirely. But if you point out the increased likelihood that homophobes have same sex attraction (unfortunately the correlation wasn't actually that high, so you're kind of counting on them not being that great with statistics), you're opening them up to their own misconceptions. You aren't going to make fun of them or attack their (possible) gayness, they are going to do that themselves. It is their weapon, returned like a boomerang, not a new weapon produced by you.

I can provide in depth psychological justification for anything. It's my superpower.
Are studies using a Penile Strain Gauge still ethical? I thought they were about as scientifically valid as a lobotomy.
@6 I think you're dead wrong. If you're literate, and you've been reading Savage Love for any length of time, you'll know there is any number of things that can cause/depress an erection that have nothing to do with sexual thoughts/urges/feelings/desires.

For all you know, it could be that homophobia is linked to not being weirded out by a device attached to your penis that depresses erection frequency in non-homophobic men, or, you know into having your penis in a glorified heartrate monitor. The sample sizes are minuscule.
Huffington Post isn't a blog any more than most news sites are blogs these days. It does contain original journalism.

Yes, it is a liberally biased source. Doesn't make what they say untrue. Attacking sources in general isn't a particularly compelling argumentative strategy, Google "ad hominem." Also "guilt by association." If you want to argue that some fact is untrue, argue the fact and not the source, as even biased sources (sources that inject their opinion into their articles) can be trusted sources of information.
SB; So you accept this violence? Your creed is hate and violence? Like those boys in ISIS, you like them?
@34: Your image of Dan Savage as a false god spreading ruin and destruction like a cancer does not really convince me that you do not have a hysterical, insane fear of Dan Savage.

Weird, huh?

People in Australia do speak English don't they? I mean, apart from misspellings like theatre and colour?

I wrote exactly the opposite of what you seem to have read. Look at it again. I know you can get it with practice and repetition!

As for @42, I know English is the primary language here, so Teddy has no excuse. But here goes, buddy. Savage is a sad excuse for a god for people like you, who believe in nothing. Otherwise the fact that anyone but the patrons of gay bars and such places know his name is just a symptom of a societal illness. A false god? That? He's nowhere near that intelligent, moral, ethical or any way posessed of redeeming value,
@43: What a sorrowfully incomplete perception you have of the Divine to think that being a fan of an advice columnist is some sort of feeble substitute for worship.
I am a Jew, which means I believe in the God of Israel and the Covenant and the Messiah and those things that come with all of that. Completely unrelated to that, I think Dan Savage is a pretty cool guy who applies a sort of sexual/romantic realpolitik to people's relationships and furthers witty advocacy for LGBTQ people who (as is common knowledge) are frequently oppressed. Do you understand the difference between worship and simple admiration? You are a Christian and should understand the difference.
Of course, what this is really about is your belief that because you're a Christian, you automatically have the moral high ground over atheists. You can spare us your false piety, you disgrace to theists everywhere.
Does [accusing homophobes of being gay] mean you're accepting, for sake of argument...that there's something wrong with being gay? Yes it does.

I disagree. I think the jab of calling homophobes out--as being the thing they hate--is that it only hurts as long as they persist in bigotry and hypocrisy.

If they were to expand their understanding and acceptance of themselves and others, they would then see that it wasn't an accusation, but an invitation.
It's true that the science behind those penile studies is pretty shaky. But it's not like those closet fags know shit about science.
@43 Man you sure are probably going to have a bad May and June (here's hoping).

First, the entire nation of Ireland is going to vote to legalize marriage equality in May (the first nation to do so). Then the entire nation of the United States (#3 in world population) is going to do the same by order of the Supreme Court in June.

You should probably go on a long vacation and come back in July and pretend none of it ever happened.
Unfortunately this study seems to me to show that men are aroused by things that make them angry.
the real pics are gay enough - no penis gauge needed


faces not blurred.
SB; I don't read your slime! I just know what you saying.
Negative attention better than no attention, Eh?
Am I the only one who noticed that the research paper quoted here was published in 1996 and not "just published"?
#43: It is hilarious how angry and jealous you are that someone you deem as "inferior" is so much more successful and influential than you are. You just embarass yourself with this defense mechanism of reading and commenting on Dan savage EVERY DAY just so you can tell yourself over and over that you are better, despite being better by no discernable metric. Which of course, is why you are so angry and confused.

It is kind of sad, actually. I pity you.
Mr O - That's exactly the point. Let them work through the bad stuff and *then* invite them.

I think the unintended consequence here is that the message will get mixed up by the closeted nonphobes, who have a hard enough time already.
@39 - ok, the "if you're literate" thing is uncalled for. SB's trollhood doesn't need to become contagious. Calm down.

I didn't read the study. Yes, a tiny sample size is a real problem. But your competing hypothesis, while theoretically possible, still seems far less likely than the more obvious conclusion.
As for spelling (and I see that other people are starting to insert a second o into "lose"), there's a case against such words as "marginalised" with an ess instead of a zed (which was used in my favourite Morse case), but I think I'll stand by the honour of Centre Court every time.
Seattleblues, is it even within your capacity to imagine that one might believe in something, even something at least as intellectually defensible as anything you hold true, even if it's something to which you can't relate, or which you can't accept? I'm not easily perplexed, but I'm regularly downright baffled by the notion that someone who seems more or less capable of writing a coherent sentence, who claims to be gainfully employed and to be engaged in something other than trolling (at best) or hate speech (at worst--and I use that as a taxonomic definition, not a legally binding one; I do not believe in regulating either speech or motives), would be so insistent that moral findings outside his own (subjectively derived, without recourse to empiricism) framework amount to moral apathy.
Sign the petition
Wow that must have been one busy donkey....a whole lots of jacka$ses were spawned
Much as I loved Dan's advice (who doesn't want to call a bunch of assholes out as closeted dickheads?), I have to agree with those above who are urging caution. The level of hate and off-thinking that would allow multiple people to conceive of and execute this kind of hateful shit is pretty disturbing. Leave the rabid dogs well alone kids, sticking it to a couple of high school douchebags are not worth ending up in a body bag.