Comments

1
Lacey Walmart 630pm tonight
5110 Yelm Highway
Lacey, WA 98503
2
They're going to give this guy an entire weekend to concoct a story?
3
Holy fuck.
5
"unarmed"? "unarmed" in the I-want-the-world-to-be-just-like-I-see-it-in-the-TV-crime-drama sense? Or in the real world sense? If you assault someone with a skateboard, you've armed yourself in the real world sense. And if you assault someone in the real world, they may just fight back.
7
ATTENTION Olympia statist-progressives: Please do your best tonight not to burn down your community.
8
@5 The more information we get, the more it becomes clear that his use of force was excessive. "Once you arm yourself with a skateboard," oh please! Fight back with a gun, shooting both of them in the chest and into a second-story window? Did you even read the article you're commenting on? As for your other comment,
@7 Do you live in West Olympia? Are you actively involved here? Do you even have a stake in what's going on here, or are you just tired of the minor inconvenience of having other people care about issues that you don't care about? Not everyone who doesn't want trigger-happy police matches the fantasy you have in your head of the Evergreen freshman anarchist who will look for any excuse to burn down a building or smash a window.

You know who's burning down this community? It sure as hell isn't the people living in it. The people who poison this community are the ones who come through and shoot minor offenders and at the houses of civilians. The police have been wise to shut the fuck up and go away during these protests, whoever told them to keep their heads down for this was very smart. The last thing we need right now are more police causing trouble in our community, but next to last are smug chucklefucks, not even part of the community, who think that they have anything to say about incidents that they either A) have clearly not researched the facts of, or B) simply have sociopathic tendencies and just don't care. "B-but s-shoplifting!" Yeah, what a couple of hardened criminals, stealing a case of beer. Olympia really should fear these hooligans more than the cops, huh? Watch out, next they might try using expired coupons!
10
pew pew! when all you have is a hammer, every black shoplifter skateboarding is a nail.

this officer, even if he reacted within the protocols he'd been trained to follow, is too jumpy to be employed as such.
11
I tutored in the jail. My first GED student was a young man who is serving twelve years for shooting into a house. Am interested in how this goes.
12
@8, As a legal matter you get to resist deadly force with deadly force. The deadly force being brought against you could be a blunt force object, like a skateboard, or knife. Once you are threatened with deadly force and their is imminent risk of that being employed, you can respond with deadly force of your own from a gun, even if the deadly force offered by the person attacking you is only a 2 x 4. You aren't required to limit yourself to the same type or kind of deadly weapon used against you.

What makes a skateboard or baseball bat no longer innocent sports items but deadly weapons? Manner of use. "... a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used ..." RCW 9.94a.825.

Nor does someone have to be at risk of death from a skateboard that is no longer a skateboard (but a weapon). You can respond with deadly force if you are at risk of "great personal injury". RCW 9A.16.050

Here is a case from The Stranger where someone shot an unarmed man (singular) attacking them (plural) in broad daylight, on a crowded sidewalk, outside the King County Courthouse. It was ruled justified.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
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@12: a shove is deadly force if you fall back and hit your head. i've seen it in movies.

the cop may have a legal alibi, but that doesn't make it good policing. i'm going to go ahead say that he's a bad cop; he overreacted. but, they lived, so we'll have 3 stories to compare. should be illuminating.

skateboarding is not a crime.
14
911 Caller: "And tried to, uh, he stole a beer earlier and he tried to do it again. He threw the beer at me and hit my hand. He threw a case of beer at me—glass beer." (Turns out to be bullshit according to the video released today)

The cop who did this shooting has this background: "Officer Ryan Donald is out of the Academy finishing his last rotation with his PTO. Officer Ryan Donald was born in Frankfurt Germany in 1980. He grew up in a military family. He enlisted in the U.S. Army Military Police Corp. just after September 11, 2001. Officer Donald was stationed in Germany after receiving his basic training. He has completed two deployments to Iraq and one to Kosovo. After returning to the states he was stationed in Arizona where he worked with U.S. Customs and Border Patrol. Officer Donald left the military after eight years and was employed as a Loss Prevention Officer before being hired with the Olympia Police Department."

- SOURCE: OPD Chief Ronnie Roberts in 2012 when he introduced the new officer to the public.

Who wants to bet that the cop's military background has a LOT more to do with the outcome than the means of locomotion of these two young men?

15
At present, only the officer's account says he was attacked. And that's a problem. He radioed in that he had already shot someone.

Imagine a scenario.

"Hold it."

Kid does a kick on the back of board bringing it to his hands.

Blam, blam, blam.

"I was scared by the way he got off his board. Good enough."
16
@13, You can say all of those things until you are blue in the face, but the cop, or a citizen in these circumstances has every expectation that they can rely on the law in defense of their actions until we change those laws. And a cop or citizen in this circumstance will if they can.

So how would you re-word RCW 9A.16.050 so that you get the outcome you want toward this cop (or a citizen if they had acted as permitted by law - RCW 9A.16.020)? Now apply the re-worded statute to other facts and circumstances. Does it allow everyone to use deadly force in self-defense that should be allowed to? If you eliminate the somewhat broad current language of at imminent risk of "great personal injury" as a criteria for using deadly force to "receiving actual physical injury" you have made the criteria more objective. You have eliminated some of the "wiggle room" allowing somebody to kill another while claiming self-defense. But you have also eliminated a woman facing a rape's right to shoot her attacker before he actually strikes. Oops.

All I am suggesting is that it is very difficult to come up with criteria for justifiable self-defense or justifiable homicide without subjectivity and ambiguity. That favors acquittal of people claiming they killed in self-defense. Take away that subjectivity and ambiguity and you take away rights of people to protect themselves with deadly force from that which no one should ever have to endure for the greater good.

It is not easy and whatever we arrive at will always be unsatisfactory as it is applied to a large minority of cases.
17
@15, I listened to the 2+ minute excerpt of the radio traffic between the officer involved (unit 23 on the radio), dispatch and responding back of officers. What is here as it opens is the 23 declaring "Shots fired". That is standard protocol. That declaration gets all available back-up rolling, gets dispatch to notify senior commanders not just on-duty ones, gets them to start mobilizing the investigative teams that investigate any shooting, etc. It is standard cop short hand for "I am in danger, the suspects are in danger, the public is in danger, roll all assistance and response. He then describes how many suspects, which way they went, where he is, which is all critical information to get back-up there and try and restore the order that will keep him, the suspects, and the public safe. Again, standard operating procedure. Dispatch asks 23 about half-way in if the suspect are armed (a key piece of information needed by responding back-up that 23, likely because of the stress of a very dangerous and fluid situation has situation, he has inadvertently omitted up to that point). It is then that he says they are not armed but that they had swung at him with a skateboard and been highly aggressive toward him. I don't take it as an attempted justification for having shot one of the suspects just before calling, "shots fired". The officer is telling dispatch, for the benefit of responding back-up, the nature of the threat he had already faced to let back-up know the nature of the threat they will face as they respond.

What radio excerpt did you listen to draw the conclusion that the officer fired before he experienced having a skateboard at him and other physical, two against one, aggression? Or do you draw different conclusions from that radio traffic? Why?
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@12- The recurring narrative of black men attacking police that they know have guns seems very suspect.
21
Why is this being turned into a race thing ? Put yourselves in the officers place and tell me what you would have done. Two young men trying to beat the crap out of you with skateboards and you would do what ?
If you are looking for Heroes I wouldn't be looking at these two.
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Lol @ "unarmed." Google Demetri Andrews. Ask him how he feels about skateboards being legit weapons. Oh wait you can't ask him because he was murdered with a skateboard in Seattle and is dead.
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@21, 24, etc.: where are you police apologists getting the "they tried to beat the crap out of him with a skateboard"? seriously, i want to know where you heard it. oly police presser? on dori monson? in the seattle times?

was it one swing? did they knock the cop down and pummel him repeatedly?

& @21: who the fuck is trying to make them heroes?
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@24: maybe you should read up on that "murder" as well. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/skate…
28
Otto Zehm.
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@26: haha, good one.

actually it has plenty to do with this - in this thread there is the widespread opinion that a skateboard is a weapon that, when wielded by a black man, can easily murder a policeman who has multiple tours in a combat zone.

is skateboarding a sport? or is it just training for murdering police? i guess we'll just have to let old white men decide.
30
I think the word unarmed is used too often. They were armed, they have arms - they have skateboards. They were not complying with the law. They were swinging armaments at the officer, two on one - Cop was dong his job. Don't break the law, you won't get chased down and shot.
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@30 well stated. these kids also had no qualms over hurling a case of beer at an unarmed woman. hopefully next time they will think it over. probably just end up like tuba man's murderers though. In and out of jail for the rest of their lives.
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Oh and btw tuba man's murderers were unarmed.
34
Quit inflating the actions of these two men. They didn't 'hurl' beer. the case didn't even travel through the air. It dropped kinda ya know like gravity tends to do to things.

Second, yes a skateboard can be a weapon. I've had them swung at me. It was scary. I didn't at any point wish that I had a gun to retaliate with. Cops have other weapons.

What they are often lacking is a cool head. I know how to back up- does Ryan?? There's no way I'm gonna let myself get brained with a skateboard unless I don't see it coming or I'm incapacitated. And this cop has seen active combat on military tours.

If every cop that was justified by the law to use deadly force did so, we'd have a problem, and that problem would look a lot like the problem that we have with trigger happy police in America. We are upset that cops don't explore less lethal options very often.
35
@17 That's a lot of words, but it doesn't include any context. You're not helping people to understand the situation, you're just creating more confusion.

I live here, and every time I see someone pulled over for a traffic violation, there's at least two units, sometimes three. The call for back-up should have been automatic. NOT to be sent after "shots fired." That's just stupid. Why did only ONE cop respond to the call from Safeway, when running a red light will get you a donut shop full of them?

Because something like this sounded to the cops' ears as the call came in: "Some kids are lifting beer again. Send the low man on the totem pole to listen to the Safeway employees bitch and moan, write up a report, get the surveillance tapes and we'll deal with it tomorrow." Then before you know it, "Shots fired." "Oh shit oh shit oh shit!!!!" as the OPD (and the Lacey PD, Tumwater PD, and the Thurston Country Sheriff's office) collectively shits itself.

NOW that the cops are having to defend themselves, telling us that stealing beer and dropping the case in the general direction of the employee constitutes a heinous crime. If those guys had been allowed to get away, why, they might have done anything! Jaywalked! Rode their skateboards in the street! Going the wrong way, even! He HAD to chase after them!

Going over the evidence, it becomes pretty obvious what happened. It was a low-level, routine crime, the officer escalated the situation far beyond what was warranted, and created a shit storm for the OPD, the town, the state of WA, and the entire country. I know these guys. Some are assholes, but the OPD are not a raging well-spring of racism like in Ferguson, MO. But they're just like every other cop station in the country, they're living in fear.

In all your mansplaining, @17, you leave out that one, critical aspect: The cop escalated the situation. Period. End of story. The vicious cycle starts with that and then trying to cover it up behind the Blue Wall of Silence. They figure it's best to show a united front and then take care of it "on their own." Except it doesn't allay the public fears' (except the ammosexuals who get off on the idea of cops shooting people.) And the more the public fears the cops, the more the cops fear the public. The more the cops fear, the more likely they will escalate situations.

Cops don't want videos, they don't like the idea of people always looking over their shoulder while they work. Well, no one really does, but then few jobs allow the privilege of being able to murder without punishment. What they don't realize is that if every cop carried a camera, they would appear far more human and understandable, instead of a well-armed gang, interchangeable faces forming into a pitiless and hyper-violent Blue Wall.
41
@12 Whether or not he was attacked with a skateboard--which is something that only the police report itself has actually stated--there were other readily-available means of apprehending both of them that did not involve lethal force. The likelihood that these two are somehow magically Mortal Kombat-tier masters with skateboards is zero. Now, it is possible that they did attack him with their skateboards. It is also possible that the officer in question just saw them with skateboards, thought they made a 'threatening gesture,' ie, they turned to look at him while also being black males, or something equally terrifying to a cop, and decided that "they were coming right for him!" and fired on them. People who dismiss this as ludicrous have not been paying the slightest bit of attention to what we're seeing nationwide.

What is known, and is not merely possible but fact, is that he did fire on them, at least three shots including a civilian home, and that it happened at some point between them meeting and them being taken out of the woods. There's been some serious questions raised as to whether or not he shot them and then they ran, or they ran and then he shot them, but at the present time, we know that he shot them and they had only skateboards as potential weapons. He, on the other hand, should have at his disposal a number of ways to subdue them that don't involve shooting them, even if they were being threatening or coming at him with their skateboards, and there is little evidence that said assault even happened.

My point is this: At absolute best, taking the police report absolutely at its word, he still used an excessive amount of force relative to the danger he was in. In fact, the police report states that only one of the men attacked him at all, so even if he was justified in using his gun, he's either a really bad or trigger-happy shot (likely), or in the heat of the moment, while he was pissing his pants over a skateboard, he also shot at the other man who wasn't attacking him. I would rather take a pair of skateboarding shoplifters in West Olympia than a cop who freaks out when a skateboard is shown and proceeds to shoot enough that not only has he hit an assailant but also another non-threatening suspect and the second story of a house. How is it that someone who used to be in the military can be such a bad shot if he's not overreacting?
42
Outside of what's real in this case, let's note that you can royally fuck someone up with a skateboard. I've seen many ugly skateboard assaults, including a coma with one shot incident. People have been beaten to death with skateboards. We used to practice how to hit with a skateboard - if you know how you can whip one with incredible force.

Not saying shooting was justified or not racially motivated, just that as a weapon a skateboard is no joke.
43
The lengths people go to make excuses for criminality to justify done baseless theory of mass racist policing.

Yes. Two more young black men were shot.
Yes. The shooter was a white cop.

But what an astounding coincidence the cops discriminate randomly, yet magically only hit violent criminals (and moreso -- often in the process or immediately following the commission of their first crime!) Because naturally, they were such good boys. Never in trouble. Headed to college. Put their troubles behind them. Blahditty blah....
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@43 You haven't been paying attention, have you? Find me someone outside of the family who denies that they stole beer. The video evidence is clear, yeah, they were trying to shoplift. that's not the issue at all. Yeah, they magically only hit "violent criminals," like the member of the two who didn't assault him, what a violent criminal. Also that second-story window, what a menace to society that house is. Cops are such heroes, shooting skateboarders in West Olympia. Never overreact, just enforcing the law. Blahditty blah...
45
what a cesspool this website has become.
46
Did the cop not have a billy club? Firing that many shots (with what could easily be construed as terrible aim) against a kid swinging a skateboard is excessive.
47
Okay, so those guys getting shot made sense because of a botched shoplifting?! You guys almost got a case of bud, thus you deserve to die?!
49
"Olympia Officer Ryan Donald fired a shot into the second-story window of a nearby home." Doubtful. More likely a ricochet.
50
I wonder how many other racist cops came here to troll the story? Hey officers, whats your stormfront handle? You can tell me, its just the two of us here!

http://rt.com/usa/260041-chicago-police-… White chicago officer punches pregnant black woman in the stomach and calls her a 'black bitch' on camera. Similar to what SPD officers were shown to have done in the DOJ report.

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive… Seattle police officer who assaulted and arrested a 70 year old black man caught in a racist rant online.

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-nypd-m… NYPD cop message board springs to life with racist rants about blacks from white officers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-nypd-m… Florida veteran cops fired after their longtime membership in the KuKlux Klan was revealed to the public.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010… Fired cops admit that the KuKluxKlan has several other members in police departments around the nation.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010… Nebraska cop who was a member of the KKK fired, then sued state to be reinstated. The Police Union guild supported his claims (but the courts did not).

http://gawker.com/the-horrible-bigoted-t… - SFPD caught in a PR disaster when racist text by white officers are revealed. Included charms such as "White Power" and "Mixed race children are an abomination/should be killed".

Hmm, see where Im going with this?

Now....see this story. Two unarmed black men shot by a white cop. White cop is given half a week to come up with a story. White cops white boss says "No indication that race was a factor" (Similar to the white bosses of the officers in the stories linked above).

Hmm...

51
@50, WOW.
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@49, Richochet or not, it is not criminally culpable. It is the expected outcome of firing a handgun given the limitations of the technology and the limits of the best trained human shooters under stress RCW 9a.16.030 states:

"Homicide is excusable when committed by accident or misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means, without criminal negligence, or without any unlawful intent."

Nor is Washington's law unique. Here are three cases, from three other states, where by-standers were hit (two killed) and the officers are not criminally culpable.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/…
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/…
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/showbiz/co…

This also appears to be an upper story window. Unless the road is behind the trees and the grade is higher, this could be evidence that the cop fired from the ground with suspects standing over him.

53
@35, Did this cop escalate matters?

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=vide…

The fact is, cops have a right to detain you if there is "reasonable suspicion" of a civil traffic infraction, much less a criminal misdemeanor or felony.

So the cop tries to detain these two. It could have been as simple as "Come here and talk to me". If they aren't free to leave they are detained. In the case of the video supplied, the speeding suspect escalated with a firearm. In the case in Olympia, the suspect or suspects allegedly escalated with a skateboard. As other posters have noted, its also a deadly weapon because of the alleged manner of use. Even putting that aside, if they had escalated with fists, its two on one, and the officer has no assurance that he will last long enough for them not to get his gun. Cops carry guns to defend themselves against that escalation. Don't want a cop to kill you, don't escalate to the point that you open the door for him/her to lawfully kill you. Don't create circumstances where an officer (or citizen) could reasonably conclude they are at risk of "great personal injury". Don't become culpable in your own demise and your killer legally walking free.

Please wait...

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