Fox News Panel Uses Logical Fallacy to Slam Seattle Kayaktivists

Comments

1
Here's to The Five! They really hit some nerves, didn't they? This is good television.
2
They're right, you know. I have on on good authority that immediately upon returning to land they stacked the kayaks and burned them to roast some marshmallows.

3
Nothing to do with the fallacy, but on the topic of oil in our waters, oil from the Santa Barbara bumblefuck has arrived in Santa Monica Bay. A globule got smeared on my board during my morning surf. And a stretch of beach is closed in Hermosa. Great stuff.
4
It's The Five -- you're safe completely ignoring anything that happens on that show. The only people who watch it work for The Daily Show and they only do it because it's their job.
5
@4 - Plus its been said Kimberly Guifolyle's glam shots have a following. She has that chair for a reason.
6
@4: You forgot the really old people who want to live in the warm, comforting "your opinions are still relevant" bubble that Fox provides.
7
Completely off-topic, but ... to Stranger editors:

Why have comments been turned off on the Rich Smith interview with Shane McCrae about the Vanessa Place petition? I've opened the comments page in a couple of different browsers and it's empty: no "add a comment" box, no preview, nada, zilch.

I'm assuming it was done purposefully, but you should at least put a note at the bottom of the post - not wanting to assign someone to clean up offensive comments for half a day is one thing, but don't be cowardly about it. Admit that you either fear an avalanche of odious and offensive crap, or you don't actually care about feedback and dialogue on McCrae's stance.

If I am wrong and it is merely a technical glitch - please be advised, the comments section to the McCrae interview post is not working.
8
"Water actually powers Seattle."

Speaking of...am I the only one that actually reads the Drinking Water Quality Report that SPU mails out?
9
Fox doesn't understand or care what a logical fallacy is. Hell, they can't even tell the difference between manufacturing materials and fuel.

But hey, if global warming doesn't exist, then I guess the petrokayak industry can't really be causing it, can they?
10
"focusing on the acts of the person making the argument, instead of addressing the merits of the argument itself."

While it may be an act of derailing, it doesn't mean that they're not hypocrites.
11
@7,

That is weird. At the very least, in the old slog comment format, they'd at least display a message saying "comments for this piece have been disabled", or something along those lines. That's just a blank page though, nothing whatsoever.
12
Greg Gutfeld has his tongue firmly planted in his cheek every time he opens his mouth on air. i mean, he is the host of Red Eye. I'm amazed you'd even dedicate Slog space to anything he says. He is pretty entertaining though, and you'd love him if he was on anything but Fox News (and doing the same shtick, but for the other side).
13
@10, hypocrisy (noun): the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. A good example would be claiming to abhor sex between two men, and then being caught having sex with another man. It would have been an easy situation to avoid, but the hypocrite made an unusual effort (including hiding his actions) to behave in a way that was inconsistent with his words.

The protesters were not protesting every use of petrochemicals. They were protesting the specific actions of Shell to extract these resources in a globally dangerous manner. They were also protesting the "profit over all" corporate attitude that has made it nearly impossible to function in our society while eschewing fossil fuels entirely, which began long before any of them were born.

Let's review - vilifying gay men for having sex while surreptitiously arranging to have gay sex = hypocrisy. Protesting Arctic drilling while in a kayak made from a small amount of petrochemicals from non-Arctic sources when there are almost no non-petrochemical kayak alternatives ≠ hypocrisy. Good?
14
I didn't know that the manufacture of kayaks was releasing unsustainable levels of CO2 into the atmosphere every day. I'm so glad we have some scientifically literate people to enlighten us on this topic.
15
By their logic, we should be against targeted strikes on violent terrorists. If we're so against those terrorists killing people, why are we killing people in our response against them, right?
That is the illogical conclusion of their argument. Why does FOX News hate America?
16
Nutjobs never pay attention when you tell them we need cheap oil for more important stuff than to burn it. Dimwits.
17
when there are almost no non-petrochemical kayak alternatives


Nonsense. I have a wood kayak. Wood kayaks can be found anywhere. They are just more expensive.

For me the issue of these protests is less about the hypocrisy of the individual and more about the sacrifices necessary to make real change.

I agree drilling the arctic is an invitation to ecological catastrophe. But are we really prepared to get what we want. I'm not speaking of just protesting Shell to for using Seattle harbors. But in general I see no one - me included - willing to make the lifestyle changes necessary to stop climate change. Everybody merely wants OTHER people to make these changes. People still want those kayaks and their suburbs and cheap gas and everything else. And as long as they do, corporations will provide them. This idea that consumption does;t event policy or the environment is total bullshit.

Demand for cheap oil and products by oil is doing nothing but going up.

So. What are you willing to sacrifice? And shouldn't you start sacrificing now? What can't we ask that question, even of protestors and ourselves?
18
oops:
suburbs = Subaru
does;t event = "doesn't effect"
19
Absolutely correct about the logical fallacy, the way the Fox guys are arguing; however, there is a non-fallacious argument that is legit that goes beyond the fallacy at work here. Suppliers can't cover costs of supplying if customers choose other energy products or choose not to consume energy. You could choose, like the guy in Detroit did (for other reasons) to walk both ways to work and sleep four hours a night and not consume gasoline or diesel. Or you could choose to pay for an all electric car, at five times the cost, and charge it only with solar energy, at 3 times the cost, or some combination thereof. Shell, et. al. would be out of business or take huge losses as they switched to supplying other energy tomorrow. They exist only because of the choices we make. And then we blame them, not ourselves, for supplying our chosen energy consumption.
20
The Five rule. They told the truth. That's why some of you are talking shit. Because the truth hurts. The kayakivist are hypocrisy of the highest order.
21
@20,

You're a shit-brained fool. The charge of "hypocrisy" is ridiculous and reminiscent of liberals who rage about conservatives who they deem hypocritical for claiming the state shouldn't be in the business of funding education scholarships, but then accept them for themselves or their kids. Such charges are similarly ridiculous.

You're born into a society and it's governing economic and political systems. One can recognize and campaign against inherent problems and fallacies within those systems, even while taking advantage of their fruits and benefits. One can recognize that viable alternative options exist, even if they're not currently accessible to them directly. The ability to recognize this requires just a hint of critical thinking capacity and you obviously lack this in spades.

So to summarize, you're stupid as a pile of rocks and your profile picture is exceedingly freaking weird looking.
22
I bought one additional solar panel for each jerk host on Fox, to be put up in Seattle, where we can laugh at their lack of water.
23
@21, you don't like the way I look?
24
It's pretty obviously the least of my concerns with regard to your profile. Far more disconcerting is your utter inability to demonstrate any understanding of the concepts of critical thought or nuance.
27
@25:

Exactly. The fallacy cited doesn't exempt the protestors from being misguided idiots, it just clarifies that being a misguided idiot does not, in and of itself, make one wrong.
29
This article is maybe the dumbest thing I have read today. "They told the truth. The truth hurts. The kayakivist are hypocrisy of the highest order."
30
The same Fox "News" that went to court to get away with both libel and slander.