Caitlyn Jenner Debuts On the Cover of Vanity Fair

Comments

1
So she had the wealth and resources to transform herself into a passable lipstick lesbian and use the PR machine she helped build to foist her obnoxious step daughters on us to glamourize it. Why is this so laudable and brave?
I think the praise for real bravery should go to those men and women who cannot afford to completely surgically transform their face and body, and do their best to go through life as they are, as incongruous as their appearance may be with their gender conviction.
And she's a republican.
Sorry, no prize.
3
And Caitlyn spawned the lovely Kendall, who seems to have both the youth and intelligence that will keep America strong.
4
@1, I'm glad you pointed out she's a Republican. I seriously think that should be pointed out in every conversation about Caitlyn. She did the transformation: GREAT! Now reconcile how she can be part of a party that despises her very existence or is it really about money for conservatives at the end of the day.
5
@1,@2,@3

You bitches.
6
I'm with #1: Jenner has the resources and the fame to withstand the negative and difficult side of transitioning. But Jenner proudly and loudly supports the Republican Party - the party whose DNA is hard-coded to hate transgendered people (as well as gay people, minorities, brown people, poor people, etc.). Not one transgendered kid or youth in twenty will have the resources that Jenner has to overcome the difficulties he or she will face.
7
good makeup and hair work.
8
@6
I don't hate poor people, it's just difficult to be around them. Fr-instance, not one of my poor people friends have accepted my invitation to go dutch at Paseo. Hello?? It's not THAT spendy. On the verge of telling them to get a life, seriously, for real.
9
I'm looking forward to Caitlyn Jenner giving a keynote address during the GOP convention next summer. I mean she'd agree that the GOP is a "big tent" party with better diversity than the Democrats....right?
10
@6

So it doesn't count that she made the transition? You have nothing positive to say about that? And "not one person in twenty" could survive life under the celebrity microscope, let alone without the support of their own tribe.
11
It's a total false dichotomy to say that we either have to praise Jenner for bravery, or less well-off trans people.

I'm trans and have not yet started presenting full time. I find Jenner definitely very brave
12
@9
Keep dreaming, I'm a dreamer too. We gots to stick together amongst these reality show wanks.
13
Nicest rest room I've ever used was gender-neutral. Had little fully-enclosed water closets and a shared central sink area, and a little background music to help cover the sounds of people in the stalls. It was lovely. Don't see why some variation of this design couldn't be used just about everywhere.
14
@13 - it's a weird and, I think, uniquely American phenomenon to have bathroom stalls that provide as little privacy as possible. In other countries I've visited even otherwise cheap public bathrooms commonly had floor-to-ceiling doors and walls on the stalls, and some even had the washlet combo in each stall -- toilet, sink, hand dryer. There seems to be a presumption in the US that people will do bad things in bathroom stalls if you give them privacy.
16
#1 and #6, I happen to be one of "those men and women who cannot afford to completely surgically transform their face and body, and do their best to go through life as they are, as incongruous as their appearance may be with their gender conviction.". I have been struggling with that for 14 years. Caitlyn's bravery is one of the two stories that has given me the courage to transition to non-binary despite the lack of funds (the other was a report on the low number of out trans people in Gen X due to our witnessing extensive gay bashing in our childhoods) and the giving up of passing white male privilege.

It isn't about money. It isn't about politics. It is about bravery, courage, and showing other people they are not alone. She gets the prize. Not from you, but from the greater trans community. You see, they/we are the target. We are the judge. We award the ribbon.

Look to me and #11. We are the ones she was looking to inspire. She has. With all due respect, in this arena, our inspiration is more valuable than your skepticism and demand to politicize our struggle.
17
Yea! Good for you honey. Glad you are able to now be living as your authentic self. Now, please, all Kardashian and Kardashian associated people, please go away.
18
@15, If you asked any trans person or supporter they would tell you that gendered bathrooms are not a problem at all; trans people will just go ahead and use the bathroom they deem appropriate. The people freaking out which bathroom Caitlyn Jenner should use are the ones who are freaking out about Caitlyn Jenner existing in the first place.
19
She does look georgous, and on a great mag like Vanity Fair- one of my monthly treats.
She's 65, Jesus.

Re the flaming toilets. God almighty. The bloody earth is falling apart, ISIS is running mad all over the place and people worry about which fucking toilet someone is gonna use.
20
@18 - exactly. Well said.

@14 - I think you're right about why American bathroom stalls afford so little privacy. And those fears are, of course, not entirely unjustified. But an occasional bathroom-stall sexytime or line-snorting or what have you is not a huge deal. In a really sketchy neighborhood, maybe go with the less private stalls. Otherwise, who cares? People gonna do what they're gonna do. 'swhat I think anyway.

21
@16 A-fucking-men
22
It's actually is good that Jenner is wealthy and a Republican. The bigots in the GOP can't say that only "The OTHER": those ungodly poor lazy unwashed people that the Dems support could be trans or gay or queer or whomever/whatever minority group the GOP goons cabal want to marginalize/demonize/persecute. I think the reason there has been so much acceptance of gay people in the last 8-10 years is because more gay people had the courage to come out, and everyone now know someone who is gay, and can see clearly that all the vile things said about gay people by the fundy bigots like Santorum are just crazy lies. Since Jenner was this great athlete, they can't even say that trans people are weaker physically. It IS brave of her, things could have gone a lot worse for her, even a couple of years ago, or maybe even last year, before Orange is the New Black and those other visible respected trans people like the professor who writes for the NYT occasionally became more prominent.
Ugh, the bloody American obsession over sex, bodily functions and nudity is just bizarre. Who cares about the stupid toilets, just do your thing and get out. I see boys who are almost teens going to the women's loo and locker rooms with their moms all the time. Where's the squawking over that? I'd feel much more discomfort over boys going through puberty seeing me in dishabille than with transgender people.

CCA
23
#22, you make an excellent point. The trans person in the bathroom or changing room is too terrified of being beaten, ostracized, or outed to be leering at people like a creeper.
24
Personally, I:

- am glad we can finally call her "she". The ambiguity was driving me crazy;
- find it telling that she chose a mag called Vanity Fair for her introduction to the world. Once a Kardashian...;
- am delighted that she's a Republican. That should mess with their head alright. Can't wait to read what SeattleBlues has to say about that, it should be hilarious;
- hope that she won't only inspire trans people, but that she'll also help transphobes get over it already.
25
Amazing what make up, lighting, Annie Liebowitz, and photoshop can do. Anyone who believes she looks like this in real life, raise your hand. And of course she's a Republican. She wants to keep the male white privilege she's had her entire life AND be a beautiful woman, too. Sadly, she can't have both.
26
Though I have vowed to myself that any mag cover related to Kandisians or whatever that name is, I won't buy.
Couldn't VF have given us a different Trans woman as a first.
27
@ 25 No one who appears on the cover of Vanity Fair looks like their VF photos in real life.
28
I'm a big old liberal and can appreciate the irony of Caitlyn's politics, but I think it's losing sight of what a big moment this is in the Trans community to just bash her for them and dust your hands.

Across the U.S. (and internationally), kids, teenagers and adults who are questioning themselves or want to make the transition but are fearful (and perhaps bullied) can look at this and say 'It's possible'. They can see the full transition Caitlyn made and apply the possibility to their own lives, and feel like there's a future for them (it gets better, kids, you heard it here first!). That's pretty damn phenomenal. Maybe we can wait on the Pub-bashing while we allow the tremendous good this will do to be appreciated and celebrated?
30
Yes Zoo. There is that. Still, there are so many gorgeous trans women out there, following the horrid caravan trail that is that mob of narcissistic morons, just puts a taint on it, for me.
31
As I said: it makes Republicans' heads implode @ 29.
32
Ah look Auntie Subhumanblues showed up for the party. Lovely to see you dear now shut up and go make me a sandwich bitch.
33
@29 Perhaps Jenner was a deeply disturbed man. Now, though, she is a fairly happy woman. I'd say that's a win. So, go away.
34
@29, Your first paragraph hits all the right notes but in your second paragraph you're trying waaaaaay too hard. You come across like a liberal caricature of conservative bedwetter whose head is so far up his own ass he doesn't even know what year it is.
35
Less than 25 minutes. Is that a record for Seattleblues?
36
@ 34 - He IS a caricature.
37
Ah geez. I didn't even get a chance to not read SB.
38
Yeah Republicans, she's one of yours. Find her a toilet.
39
@ 37 - That is the funniest comment about SB ever.
40
Oh fucking god.... I don't give a shit about how wonderful the corporate media thinks this is. SHE'S A FUCKING REPUBLICAN!! So if you're going to start talking about how brave Log Cabin Republicans are (who are just short of being Gay Hitler Youth) you need to shut up. Seriously, NO Republican gets a fucking pass on ANYTHING until they clean their fucking act up!!

Her party affiliation sends a very strong message that she supports either directly or indirectly the hate being perpetrated against all LGBT individuals. She's nothing but a media whore like the rest of her brood.

And the Transgender community would have been better served by so many other people to represent, then a Kardashian bought their way to another magazine cover

41
@40: The republican party is in a lot of churn, if her presence in the party sparks debate and possible enlightenment, why isn't that a good thing? You are not gaining any more ground by increasing your pessimism.
42
@41, can you count how many LGBT people are dead because of the hate and indifference of the GOP? When you have that number please get back to us. The time for "debate" on this issues is so far past I'm shocked you'd even suggest it at this point.

43
@40 there's some of that famous Liberal Tolerance™ I've heard so much about.
44
#42, not many. Before that faction called itself part of the GOP it was Reagan's Religious Right or the Moral Majority. This is about religiosity, not politics. Those bodies lie at the feet of Falwell, not the GOP. We won't make much progress in trans rights until we realize that fact.
45
#1 and #40 have said it best.
46
I guess I don't quite understand. The article refers to Caitlin having completed gender transition, and yet the article also states that she hasn't had genital re-assignment surgery. How does one complete gender transition......without, you know, the knife? Is it that she sees sex (and genitals) as separate from gender identity? And if she is pleased with her new breasts (and I assume she is), wouldn't seeing her penis in the mirror kind of kill it for her?
48
#46, basically, yes. In an earlier time she would be considered a non-op transsexual (thankfully we have moved beyond the question of "Non-op, pre-op, or post-op?"). Many decide not to go under the knife and just stick with hormones. Transition is a personal affair, and each individual decides when they have finished transitioning. Hormones usually cause penile shrinkage, so she might not notice it all that much in a mirror.

To continue discussing your last sentence (specifically whether or not having a penis kills the look for her), that also varies widely. I for one desire a transition that gives me female breasts and keeps the full size of my penis. It is why I choose to call myself non-binary. But many trans women keep their penises and still desire to be thought of as women.
49
Cato, anyone who knows me knows of my complete disgust of the Republican Party and its membership. I mean really, how could anyone want to belong to a group that has such whack elements, right? There are moderate Republicans, but they affiliate themselves with some seriously demented people. I've often wondered how that could be. I've wondered how decent people could call themselves Catholic at times for the same reason. But you know, you're right. Anyone who can overlook what the party stands for and continue to support it in order to, say, pay less in taxes (which is a big driver for a lot of well-off people) is a pretty deplorable thing
51
@42: Polls now show support of same sex marriage is 56% (according to RealClearPolitics) and you'll find polls as to how people define themselves as democrat or republican favoring the democrats. Clearly, the country is becoming more socially liberal and a portion of those are republicans. Such things are not necessarily parallel - but ruminating in the past is not going to help us support better republican candidates in the future.
52
@48 - thanks for the clarification, libertine.
53
Apparently for Seattleblues, moderation is not enough. He appears to be pushing for a mandatory vacation or worse.
55
I would be tempted to ask SB about the unethical doctors who gave him a lobotomy, but my comment might get removed by the moderator, so I won't.
56
I congratulate her on becoming who she sees herself as. May we all be as brave and pursue being the best versions of ourselves.

Love my eldest's college. All facilities are considered available to all and say "Restroom with Urinal" and "Restroom without Urinal" on the door.
57
Man I really don't care about becomes woman I really don't care about. She passes pretty well for someone transitioning at her age, and now I do believe we can stop paying attention to her.
58
@ 5 1 their positions on LGBT people are not the only reason Republicans are wrong, and not the only way they hurt people - just try to get an abortion in Texas and get back to me. Even if they completely reversed their stance on LGBT issues, they'd still be everything a person with any human decency could not support.
59
@ 57 - Please don't stop caring about grammar, though.
61
@ SB - I've recently been told by another commenter that I was a contrarian and that most of my posts were negative. That's definitely not the definition of a yes man.

Poor SB, now he's a victim. Boo hoo.
62
#58, the Anti-abortion platform in the GOP was championed by The Moral Majority.

I'm not saying the GOP is awesome. It sucks. I hate it. But its most despicable actions can be directly tied to religious platforms and movements within the party as opposed to the party as a whole. I choose to blame the people who started the movement, and that's Falwell, not the GOP.
63
Does she want to be a woman? Or Rupaul? Frankly, it's rather hard to tell...
64
I don't think there's a finite amount of bravery in the world. That others have endured greater hardships with fewer resources shouldn't discount that what Caitlyn Jenner is going through under a mighty big magnifying lens is a pretty big fucking deal.

I don't get the Republicanism, either -- but that would be true regardless of Jenner's gender identity. But Jenner became rich and famous at a very young age, and that can warp one's sense of other people's struggles. I've had a lot of gay friends who were Republicans when they first came out due to their family upbringings, and in time became Democrats -- quite liberal ones at that. I wouldn't be surprised if Caitlyn eventually transitions political parties, too. And yeah, it would be a little sad that it took experiencing right wing vitriol personally to do it, rather than empathy for others experiencing it. But I'm curious to see the political impact from this very public journey.
65
Wasn't she responsible for a death thru car accident, recently?
Bit tacky VF is showcasing her at this time.
66
@ 62 - "its most despicable actions can be directly tied to religious platforms and movements within the party as opposed to the party as a whole"

Unfortunately, by now, all of the Republican party's actions are "most despicable", and for all intents and purposes, there no longer is a "party as a whole" distinct from its religious extremists.
67
#65, Jenner was responsible in February for a car accident that caused the death of their neighbor, yes (pronoun switched to neutral on purpose to respect gender changes between the act and present). They were acquitted of criminal wrongdoing, and felt horrible for the situation. Jenner knew the person they killed. Despite initial media reports, Jenner was not texting and their SUV was not pulling a weight above its engine rating. After the police investigation, it was concluded that the only two things Jenner could be charged for was following too closely and driving at an unsafe speed, both at the citation level.

#66, I can point at a scant handful of Rand and Ron Paul positions I support, so I feel I can distinguish between the party line and the religious line. I understand if others do not share my sentiment, however. I have stated my opinion, that is all. I hope nobody considers that opinion a defense of the GOP's actions. I respect the differing opinions of others even as I disagree with them for the most part.

The preview of this document does not match the text. I apologize if this leads to formatting errors.
69
@46 In the Sawyer interview, Jenner said she is attracted to women, not men, so Caitlin is a lesbian.
Now, why would she have her dick cut off and then have to wear a strap on?
I guess it's a 'best of both worlds' kinda thing.
70
Libertine, of course it is a big plus for the trans community. Just wish VF had had the courage to do this a lot sooner, and not with this trans woman. She is so hard to LIKE.
71
#70, I'm not really disagreeing with that. But a lot of people today have been pointing at that specific car accident in February, claiming she murdered her neighbor in cold blood while texting in an overloaded SUV, and all kinds of crap that the police reports contradict. I support liking and disliking people for what they actually did, and that was really the point I was trying to make in my response.
If we are to dislike Caitlyn, let us do it for her politics, her ideas, who she is. Disliking her for the politics of the GOP or for actions hyped and twisted to death by the media just seems mean spirited to me (I am not accusing you of this, btw.).
72
I don't like Caitlyn for that mob of ratbags she's related too. Such an unholy mess.
Yet, I admire her for being brave and owning her truth.
73
I think a better name choice would have been Jennerfer.
74
Ms Kim - Nice restrooms. They would have saved me occasional grief in my time.

Mr Kevin - One never knows with athletes, but it takes what it takes. It would have been nice had Billie Jean King persuaded John McEnroe to support equal prize money, too.
75
holy photoshop, batman. or batwoman? what a world we live in...
76
Has anyone read Galileo's Middle Finger? A narcissist whose glory has faded into the distant (now considered non-existent) past, who has been living for the past twenty-three years in a highly sexualized domestic environment (ex-wife had multiple affairs in all her marriages, daughters preen and fondle themselves online, as previously mentioned the whole bunch are media whores, selling sex tapes, etc.) Are we really going to lionize this person just because their actions put them "on our side"? There's a reason the arms are tucked safely out of sight in the mag cover photo. Passing as a woman (without completing reassignment surgery) will be impossible because of notoriety and the fact that no one looks nearly as good as their magazine cover photo. So what exactly is being celebrated?
77
Maybe when people say she looks great, they mean that she looks happy. Maybe when they call her beautiful, they mean that seeing her as herself is beautiful.

See Laverne Cox's response to the public praising of Caitlyn's new look. She manages to offer her own praise while steering the conversation in a very thoughtful direction. She doesn't just evasively settle on some snarky observation about everyone ELSE's reaction.

Ahem.
78
@76, the only thing this matriarch of one of the most despicable reality TV families did that contributes to society is coming out as transgendered in an expensive and properly planned media extravaganza to get the best impact for "Keeping up with the Kardashians". Beyond that she exemplifies the same media whoredom her entire family and Sarah Palin demonstrate everyday.

Though I'm sure she'll put out an inspiring It Gets Better video for the transgendered youth who face endless persecution from her own political party can watch and take away a lesson of what NOT to become. Then they can watch someone inspiring like Laverne Cox or Chaz Bono and learn how to live with true dignity.
79
Good that it helps transgenders. But I'm with everybody who find Caitlyn Jenner hard to like. She threw a hissy fit at her oldest children (the ones she was an absentee parent to) when they refused to be part of her docuseries about her transition. She is indifferent to her youngest children's lack of privacy and pimping. She's still on the path of being Kris's enabler or Kris's competitor.
80
Just 2 words :
Plastic surgery.
Millions and millions of dollars of plastic surgery.
Heavy emphasis on "plastic".
81
Has SB really been expelled from SL? Wow.
If Caitlin helps to normalise transgender people, because she is who she is, then really we could say this tribe of jellyfish she belongs to, have finally done good.
82
@76, What is this "highly sexualized domestic environment" you speak of and why does it deserve our scorn? Same question for her arms -- what is the appropriate response to a 65 year-old Olympic athlete transitioning when his arms give away his former gender?
84
@83: Your world is slipping away Seattleblues. You could go pout in your "home in Italy" but then you'd have to deal with all those people who love, how did you put it? "Soccer the wannabe sport that's kind of like football, only mind numbingly dull"?
Sooo you'd still be a pariah there as well.
Poor you. :)
86
Your world in which bigotry was accepted in polite company and public life.
I'm glad you are young and healthy. It means that you have a long life in which to watch everything you shake your fist against come true.
:)
87
Anyone that states this cover image is that of a beautiful woman has clearly never developed any skills in Photoshop. Let's see her in florescent lights, with no makeup, and without the touch of a professional photographer - THAT is a true test of beauty.

Seriously, at this point in the digital age, how can people be so naive?

88
@85: "I'm neither so ignorant nor willfully obtuse"
That's a laugh.
89
@88: For real. SB is the definition of ignorant and willfully obtuse.
91
@ 90 - Really? Smarter than us lot? Ma dai, stronzo, che cosa dici ?!?

Intelligence, as I've said before here, has been defined as the capacity to adapt. You have none.

You're a joke. You're a caricature. You're Archie fucking Bunker.

You're just a moron we all like to laugh at, and you're not even bright enough to understand that, since you constantly come back for more.

And you dare call yourself smart? That's your best joke yet.

92
Mr Ricardo - If Mr Blues is Bunker, A, will you be casting other roles?
93
@ 92 - I thought you were the casting agent around here lol

Besides, the only thing I really remember about AITF is how offensively reactionary Archie Bunker was... 40 years ago. Which says a lot about SB, doesn't it?
96
@ 94 - I strongly recommend that you read MiscKitty's comment @ 28 in the SL Letter of the Day: A Question About Caitlyn Jenner.

And, once you've read that and have realized that you are wrong about who is male and who is female - because all those studies done by scientists do prove you wrong - you should try to demonstrate that you have a brain and admit that you were wrong. Because that's what people with a minimal amount of intelligence do when they are proven wrong: they admit it and they do their best to learn what is right.

But as you've shown time and again, when you are proven wrong (by statistics, scientific studies or logical arguments, i.e. arguments that are not based on mere prejudice like yours), you simply change the subject. And that, as a universal rule, is what stupid people do.

Finally, just so you know: You are not even worthy of my disdain. The only thing you are worthy of is ridicule.
97
@19,
You say "people" as if you believe that generic people care where other people pee. No, it's simply just uber conservatives who are looking for more avenues to attack trans people. The reason we progressives care who pees where is in order to protect trans people from thee right-wing attacks.
98
RE Party Affiliation

Srsly? I’m registered as a Republican voter, and my party affiliation is solely because I want to vote in Republican primaries. Living in a red state, the general election inevitably goes to the Republican candidate. Voting in the Republican primaries gives me some say in who actually ends up in office. Forgive me for being pragmatic instead of paranoid about the dreaded party-that-must-not-be-named.

Keep in mind, I haven’t signed my name in blood to always (or ever) vote for Republican candidates in the general election, or to support every (or any) aspect of the Republican party platform. I still support, e.g., reproductive rights and vote for candidates in positions to affect them who do the same, despite that nasty “R” stamped on my voter registration card. So what, exactly, is my horrific sin? How am I “affiliating with” the likes of Santorum? Please, explain this to me so that I may see the error in my ways.