Savage Love Letters of the Day: Ramping Back Up


The answer to #3 seems a little over the top. Some people really are just not that comfortable talking about sex and don't have specific kinks. If their sex life is good why keep pestering the guy and refusing to move in until he "admits" his fetishes?
If she wants to see some porn he's into she should ask to watch some with him after a bit of foreplay when he's already turned on.
LW1. Just do as Dan suggested, find a sex worker. They know what they are doing, and by the sound of you two- you may need that to get you started spicing up the bedroom.
LW2: yes. Leave this jolly fellow at work, with his stuff, and wave bye bye.
@ - And what if he really turns out to be an all-out weirdo?

I'm with Dan.
"Horses"? I find that the overwhelming majority of single gay guys leap at the chance to have NSA sex with an established couple, assuming the couple is at least passably hot . . .
My recommendation to NCAT: Ask him point blank that if she were to take his laptop to the police, would they find evidence of criminal activity? As long as the answer to that is an honest no, it may be better to let sleeping dogs lie.

As Dan has pointed out in previous columns, there is often a mismatch between what women imagine their partner's fantasies would be (e.g. sex during the sunset on a private beach somewhere in the tropics) and what is revealed to them (edge/blood play). He may have had a reveal in previous relationships where his former partner's reaction was to dump him on the spot.
Consider the following scenario: Imagine he he had an incest fetish. From a posting years ago by Dan, that fetish is disturbingly common, but people with that fetish tend not to want sexual relations with their parents, siblings, etc. I.E. the idea of other people engaging in it turns them on but they have no sexual interest in their family members. Other fetishes/kinks I can think of that would a) freak people out but b) there is still legal porn of - scat, lactation, pregnant, drug use, blood, rape fantasies, snuff, cock-ball-torture, transgender. Some guys get off reading the advertisements posted by sex workers and think if their girlfriends would not accept that explanation and assume their boyfriend was hiring sex workers.
There are also mediums through which otherwise illegal acts can be depicted. Written stories, animation, hentai (Japanese pornographic comic books) have themes that are impossible to enact or if possible, would be illegal as hell if they were done in real life: loli/lolita, shota (the male equivalent of lolita), incest, guro (think porn where people are brutally murdered), bestiality, centaur fetish, tentacle rape, mind control, gender bender/swaps, science fiction, etc. He may have fantasies that HE WOULD NOT WANT to see done in real life but worries you would not accept his assurances to that effect.

Or it really could be that the oppressive sex negativity of his upbringing has left him incredibly shy about his otherwise vanilla kinks.

Bottom line: What is learned cannot be unlearned. If you want to see what is behind his privacy settings on his laptop, you may have to accept his assurances that he wants those kinks to remain purely in the realm of fantasy.
From L3: [How can I make him feel more comfortable opening up to me, telling me what he likes, and get more confidence sexually?]

The operative word, as Charles Nelson Reilly would have said, is *make*.


LW4 reminds me of the heroine of Catharine, or The Bower. When Catharine Percival surprisingly attends a ball accompanied by Edward Stanley, his sister Camilla asks if Catharine is not in love with him herself:

"'To be sure I am,' replied Kitty laughing, 'I am in love with every handsome man I see.'

'That is just like me - I am always in love with every handsome man in the world.'

'There you outdo me,' replied Catharine, for I am only in love with those I do see.'"
@5, I don't think I could trust the answer to "are there illegal photos on your laptop" from someone so uncomfortable talking about their fetishes. I guess it's just my price of admission: if I know you're turned on by something you won't reveal to me, I'm going to feel that we're not really partners in the relationship.
I wonder what letter writer #3 is most likely to find, statistically. Is there survey data to show the frequencies of the various options? My guess is she's most likely to find that the guy is bi.
@8 - I was thinking bi, too, which would be a tremendous relief if she's fearing something illegal like kiddie porn. But to piggy back off of @5, there could be fantasies that are hot as fantasies but not in reality. Many people have rape fantasies, but that doesn't mean that want to rape or be raped in real life. (My similar fantasy involves fraternity initiation and public nudity pranks, but that doesn't mean I would scream bloody murder if someone tried to force that on me.)
To NCAT, third letter: I don't know if this would work for you, but I think this kind of thing would help to settle me down.
Tell him that you would really like him to show you what's on the laptop now, but promise that when you see it, you will say nothing, and you will not make anything of it for, say, 24/48 hours. And then follow up, as much as you can. Keep a poker face while looking, and put it out of your mind for a day. For me - and perhaps for other men with secrets that they think are embarrassing - it's the dread of immediate reaction that plays on my mind. If you can ease him through that moment of revelation, he might find it easier to settle down and get used to you knowing his secret.
And, of course, remember that the fact that he looks at porn about X doesn't mean he wants to do X - or even play-act X - in the bedroom with you.
Uh ... if HTIT's wife is "too shy" to even make a profile and ad, then how on earth is she going to be able to let go when the other woman is in the room? I foresee ... difficulties and consequences afterwards.

As for the "horses" definition, I think "centaurs" makes much more sense. All-man on top and giant dick below the waist.
Re #12, also a mythical creature ... to keep definitions (and fantastic realms) symmetrical.
RE: NCAT - I would need to know. I do respect privacy, but this seems more like secrecy. He is kind of making a deal out of this (a separate log-in for the purpose of protecting his browser history is unusual to me) and he is uncomfortable talking about his desires in general. That combination would make me uncomfortable. It really could be anything - she has no clue at all what appeals to him. If he is unwilling to be open about his fantasies and desires, I would need to step back until more information was forthcoming.
@ 12 - The thing is, precisely, that gay men who are game for a threesome with a gay couple aren't in any way mythical or hard to find.

for #3 ... are you being unreasonably nosey in other aspects of his life? does he have financial worries or hidden fortunes he might be hiding/protecting? does his work have secure info he has to hide? So, if the answers are No, and assuming you're not a dupe or a doormat,and have reasonable street smarts, why not just ASK HIM what he's up to? Most guys would appreciate and respond to an unemotional, direct, objective question (sprinkled with a dash of humor, even better) . Omit the part about trying to understand his Catholic upbringing, blah blah blah part, and just ASK him about it, and let him know you're not moving in together if you don't get a full handle on this.

Also, if he doesn't answer you directly, he doesn't want to move in with you. And you can't 'make him' either. No matter how perfect you think he/you/we are.
@14, exactly. Nothing difficult or extraordinary in locating a horse. Unicorns are a different story.
they don't call bi women up for NSA sex with established/long-married opposite-sex couples "unicorns" for nothing.

I'm curious just how unicornish they are. I'd think that if an opposite-sex couple was patient and made attempt after attempt, they'd eventually find the kind of woman they're seeking. But, on average, how many attempts would it require? Ten? Fifty? One Hundred? One Thousand?
@11: A very good point. Any unicorn will get the sense (even if untrue, as in HTIT's case) that the man is pushing for the threesome and the (presumably straight, up to this point) woman is not so much into it.

Speaking as a bi female, I agree with HTIT and Dan that Mrs HTIT should place the ad. Casual dick is FAR easier for single ladies to find than casual pussy. Casual dick is on offer all over the internet; there's nothing special about HTIT. Except for his wife.

My advice: If Mrs HTIT really does want to experiment with another woman, and isn't just picking a common "let's spice up our sex life" fantasy she thinks her husband will like, she should place her own ad stating that she is married but looking for a woman for her. I would be much more likely to answer an ad offering casual pussy than a MF package deal. If I met the woman, and her husband was hot too, then hey, bonus. But if one-on-one play isn't permissible, Mrs HTIT should not imply that it is. And they should place the ad together on a site that allows "couple seeking" ads.
To clarify my first paragraph, I should have kept the pertinent information "If the woman is shy, any unicorn will get the sense..." from @11's comment.
LW2 should win some sort of award for figuring out just how goddam obvious the upcoming DTMFR (Dump the motherfucker retroactively) was. Wow.

I'm with Dan on LW3. He might just have hangups about something normal, but he's going to extraordinary lengths to hide something from her; that sounds sketchy. It's probably not a great idea to move in with someone who's still being sketchy.

LW4's "wandering eye" problem is summed up in the first sentence of his letter. Fortunately, there's a cure.

The thing about LW3/NCAT's letter that sticks out to me is - does he think she's just going to forget about this whole you-can't-look-at-my-laptop thing? Doesn't he realize that he's just created a Pandora (and no I don't mean the music app), and that she'll soon be living with him if they continue with their plans? And that his laptop is the box?

If he's as "brilliant" as she says he is, of COURSE he realizes this. Which means one of two things; 1) he knows that what he's into is really not that weird, and he's just psyching himself up to reveal that he's into... lesbian porn! Or something equally garden-variety normal. Or 2) he really IS into something deeply weird - in which case he's going to deliberately create a browser history and download folder of normal decoy porn, hide his history of the really weird stuff, and "accidentally" leave his laptop unsecured one day for her to find.

Since 2) is a distinct possibility, time is of the essence; she needs to see that stuff NOW, before he can cover his tracks. It might already be too late.
Not down with the answer to NCAT. People are into but ashamed of all sorts of porn that's not illegal or morally wrong. I agree with whoever it was who said ask if there's illegal content, if there's not, leave it alone.

Forcing someone to show you something they're ashamed of is only going to drive a wedge between you, and it will mostly likely just turn out to be something unusual (gay furry 3D rendered porn, e.g.) instead of something illegal.
@22 - There's two basic problems with that approach: human nature - or at least most people's human nature - simply won't allow her to "leave it alone." Curiosity about what's he hiding in there? will eat away at her and damage their relationship. Second - the very act of asking if there's "illegal content" on his laptop - which means, unavoidably, kiddie porn or BDSM whose voluntary nature is questionable - will suggest that she thinks he might be the kind of person that would even have that kind of stuff in the first place. Again, relationship poison. He needs to just show her, and soon.
I just can't with people who are sluts themselves (not that it's wrong) but who become all threatened when their SO might get some outside of the relationship action. It's the traditional OS male behavior, despicable. Never heard of the golden rule ?
I've been reading Dan for nearly 20 years and I've never commented until now: man, I'm sorry I got here late and missed letter #3!
What?? I've never seen a letter removed before. Can someone please give a quick breakdown of the question and answer with identifying details removed? If this letter was soooo special that it's the only one to be removed in the history of forever, it must be SO JUICY.
In response to WE-Marriage is a LOT more than most people will ever realize...until they actually go through it. Just enjoy your twenties!
HTIT, if there's a local freebie weekly that runs personals, they might run ads by couples looking for a third. Or there might be websites where you can do that. As someone else said, though, if she's too shy to run an ad, how is she going to deal with another woman in the room?

SFW, if you haven't already, DTMFA. Dude has serious issues in addition to his cheating on you. He can ride a fucking bike to work.

WE, 20 is way too young to get married, and four months is way too soon to be living with your significant other. And if you've got the wandering eye, you absolutely should not even THINK of getting married, especially if you don't want to extend the same privilege to him.
@1: "The answer to #3 seems a little over the top. Some people really are just not that comfortable talking about sex and don't have specific kinks. If their sex life is good why keep pestering the guy and refusing to move in until he "admits" his fetishes?"

Because it's better to know when moving in with a person whether you're completely incompatible versus after you get married.

Being embarrassed by your private turn-ons is fine, but admitting that you're hiding things from your partner that you refuse to share with them is not going to lead to trust or comfort.

Once there's some communication over what's going on, then the partner can go back to ignoring the rest. The solution is communication, not letting a person retreat further into whatever shame-pit they find themselves in.
@22: "People are into but ashamed of all sorts of porn that's not illegal or morally wrong. I agree with whoever it was who said ask if there's illegal content, if there's not, leave it alone."

You're not entitled to know every single thing that goes through their head, but you are entitled to know why you're getting the sloppy and quite obvious cover-up. Embarrassment is understood but not to be championed. She's attempting to be understanding, not to tear into him. There's plenty of give and take here.
@26: The third letter was from a woman whose boyfriend wouldn't share any fantasies with her, yet went to panicked great lengths to hide his browser history when she asked to borrow his laptop. LW, who was on the brink of moving in with the boyfriend, wanted to know if he was hiding something. Dan said of course he is, and while it may be harmless and he's just embarrassed, it may not be harmless, and LW should find out the general content of his porn preferences before they move in.
@31: Right, if it's harmless, it's a conversation they need to have so they can quickly get past it and he can have his privacy back.
I found the letter from Wondering eyes to be somewhat hilarious...Looking back on my 20's and trying to imagine a monogamous marriage just cracked me up... Imagine a little horn ball trying to have sex with just one person.. A wise old gay shaman once told me , " love as many guys as you can for as long as you can...".. In other words Wondering, you should be having fun, having as many relationships as you want, and loving as many men as you desire in your youthful 20's.. Wait till your in your 30's to start shacking up.. and bring your BF along the ride whenever he feels up to it.. You both deserve more than your letting yourself have.
WE, slutting around is something you fantasize about that you know for a fact you love and can do successfully. Marriage is something you fantasize about that may not be all you've built it up to be in your head. Romance is romanticized in our culture, and long-term relationships are considerably less dreamy than everyone pretends they are. Marriage is an adult responsibility, like a mortgage or a kid. May be nice to dream about, but having one too soon can blow up in your face, badly. You've got all the time in the world. Take it. You can eat your cake and have it, too...but not simultaneously. One thing at a time. Sow as many wild oats as you must before settling down. I promise, the wild and raging hormones will wear off with age.