Savage Love Letter of the Day: Can't We All Porn Together?

Comments

1
I'd have just said, "No!" to the question before, "Thoughts?" but Mr Savage's response works too. I'm pleasantly surprised; I thought he'd turn his response into a pitch for HUMP.
2
The more dicks, the merrier, I say (as a straight woman)
3
"Whats with the stereotypes?"

For someone not concerned about what other people think of her she is extremely concerned about what other people think of her.
4
@3: Too true.

My gay ass has actually seen two or three girl/girl scenes in straight porn that did turn me on a bit. I wasn't interested in doing the girls (I hate when dudes walk in on girl/girl scenes and the girls decide they've had enough fun with each other and they can "get back to what they really want), but it was the rare scene where the girls were as close to truly bisexual as porn women get, and they were, y'know, kind of into each other, at least a little bit. Seeing two people who are really about fucking the liviing hell out of each other, regardless of gender tends to get my attention, but my interest still isn't as broad as the LW's, certainly not as a funciont of my individual sexual preference. I've seen way too much porn where I've found that M.F scene partners actually like each other off-set but have no chemistry at all when the cameras are on, as well as scene partners who can't muster any spark even when they're performing within their own preferences.
5
Sung to the tune of...
9
But what's with the mystery of lesbians watching M2M porn? Dan's system breaks down at that point.

something else is at play, I'm thinking, with lesbians who watch gay porn, even if I'm not sure what.


Any commenters have any insights?
10
What a silly letter. Ironically, with just a little extrapolation, we could probably place her pretty comfortably in the goofball right-winger "gays choose their sexual preference" camp.

That said, go easy on her. She's obviously a fierce LGBT ally who's just a bit overly enamored with her own enlightenment. She's good people.
11
As a bisexual human, I relate to easily forgetting that some people aren't just attracted to any ol' gender... It seems vastly weird and arbitrary and I have to remind myself all the time that other people's experiences differ greatly from mine and accept that I'll never get what it's like to be on one side of the spectrum or another. LW's gotta do the same.
12
When I was a child I just assumed I would be bisexual. It made sense to me, why would I want to limit myself? Then I grew up and had sex with a woman (actually I attempted it a few times with different women) and it turns out I'm disappointingly straight. Experiencing sex with a woman and having it not work because of the lack of male pheromones made me much more empathetic to gay people. I mean I was always a queer ally, but then I really viscerally got it.
13
I'm a long time reader and credit Savage Love for turning me from a self hating bisexual thirteen year old into the adventurous, GGG, open minded woman I am today. I have to say this is the first time I've ever disagreed with Dan's response! I think he focused on the wrong message in this letter. Gender identity and sexual attraction exist on a spectrum, and I don't think the writer was trying to come off as conceited. I also think that we should forgo the ideas of male or "masculine" tendencies, and those that are female or "feminine." I also enjoy gay porn (more than lesbsian porn,) but there are many other reasons I could give as to why the concept of assigning a specific trait (like enjoying porn that does not include a member of your gender) to a specific gender is just silly. I spent seven years in a homosexual relationship and was frequently asked/ told which of my characteristics made me more or less feminine than my partner. All of these were based on stereotypes; I was physically stronger, had the primary breadwinner role, can be intimidating to some, but work in a female dominated industry, I am very compassionate, and want to have children, ect. Now I am dating a man, and while my personality is the same, I am never told that I am masuline because of it: my partner is automatically the male because of his penis. He is never told that his love of dancing makes him feminine, but I imagine that if he were to date another man, he would be considered "the woman". I don't think there is a single characteristic of a human being that isn't shared by some men and some women... Including having a penis or a vagina, as the recent transition of Bruce/Caitlin Jenner has clearly illustrated. I am happy with the genitals I was born with, but believe that I would be equally as happy with a penis and still bisexual. I don't think this makes me better or more evolved than anyone else, but I do not understand the focus on "male" or "female." I am who I am, I like what I like, and I believe I would be the same person had I been born into a male body. Perhaps this is only an issue with bisexual people because we are judged differently on our perceived gender identity depending on our choice of partner?
14
Dan's remark about terrible F2F made for straight guys makes me want to give a plug here for the Crashpad Series from Pink&White Productions. One of the best and longest running F2F-ish queer porn sites out there. Although one seldom sees a dick made out of anything but silicone there are many genderqueer and trans performers, kink, etc. They are also scrupulous about using barriers and safewords.

Their membership structure is also friendly to those with limited budgets. $25 gets you access for a month, during which time you are free to download their catalog and keep the files after ending your subscription. I can't afford it on an ongoing basis but a month each year keeps me well supplied.
15
Thinking...
16
This is my, granted, farfetched hypothesis about lesbians watching M2M porn, and also the more general idea that women (and not men, unless they are into that sort of thing) get turned on even by watching animals have sex. Mother Nature is thrifty, and will make do with using body parts for purposes for which they weren't originally intended. Not only do men have nipples, I believe they also have the brain hardwiring that women have for breastfeeding. When a woman is nursing, she needs to visually focus on her baby to help with milk letdown, to help the milk flow into the breasts and be ready to come out. This can also be done with intense imaginary visualization of the baby, and can even happen when seeing cute baby things, like baby shoes. Of course this isn't sexual (although it is very biological, if that's the right word). I think this same wiring is used by male bodies to get the testicles full and ready to ejaculate. Men need to "see" the needy, sexy target of their bodily fluids to get them ready to come out.

Women's sexuality is much more in tune with basic triggers of sexytime vs. non-sexytime. So if sex being had in the vicinity, that's the sex gong. And the turn on is how turned on everyone is, if they really need to get off. It's the sexual desire itself that's sexy to women. Of course women have particular kinks and turn-ons and are also visual creatures, but I don't think it's the same switch-flipping that goes on with men (Man see Woman, Man fill Woman up with spunk).

I may be way off, having never been male. I'm just struck by the similarities. Also the lack of control. I remember hearing my baby crying and then seeing spots on the wall six feet away and realizing it was coming from me. In that sense I think it's much harder for men to keep control of their sex drive, and how much it helps to have regular "milking".
17
Yes, something else is at play, when lesbians look at gay porn.
Some Women's continuum more fluid. Maybe. Or we not so scared of our different erotic attractions, even if some of it is only expressed thru watching a DVD, cause we too came out of a woman and if we lucky, breast fed from one.
Still. There would be lots of lesbians who would never want to watch men fucking each other.
18
Confusing post. I feel some women's more fluid response to both sex porn, and that some of these women are lesbians, is because we came from ourselves. As in, we came from another woman.
The male was a step removed.
For the male homosexual, he always knows he came from the female, so there's an added bite to his rejection of the female form.
Sorry. I'm stoned. These thoughts are probably very incoherent.
I'll just go back to thinking.
19
Ms Dani - So, it doesn't count because LW wasn't trying?

I think there are unforeseen difficulties if you deliberately blur the differences between traits that are divided 50/50, 75/25, 90/10 and 99/1 (arbitrary splits). Also, a post-gay world will quickly become a non-gay world.
20
I've consumed a variety of porn over the years: M/F, F/F, M/M, M/M/F. I guess this is not surprising since I am a bi-identified man. As I found myself increasingly interested in sex with men, I began to consume gay porn. At another point in my life, I was stunned to realize that almost all the porn I consumed featured women, even though I was gay-identified. Now that I'm bi-identified (but living a basically hetero life), I find that I enjoy a lot of porn popular with mid-Kinsey guys: MMF, female domination, cuckolding, crossdressing, pegging. And since cunnilingus is my religion, I enjoy participating in its worship.
21
@16 I think you're on to something there, with the idea that "sexual desire" is what's sexiest to (at least some) women (myself included). I'm absolutely straight, but I find a lot of things sexy to watch. Leaving the mostly pathetic porn pickings aside for a moment, if I'm watching a good movie and there's well-acted sexual tension between 2 (or more characters) I will find it erotic, no matter what genders or sexual orientations.
22
@13 - your (and perhaps the LW's species of "true" bisexuality- which seems to include romantic feelings, sexual attraction, and gender identity - is really quite a rare phenomenon, especially in men. That's just the truth. In theory, we should all have the potential to be aroused by any consensual, enthusiastic sex between adult humans. In practice, it's just not the case for most of us. Or at least, not for most men. And I can assure you it's not just culture or prejudice.
23
how many bi people did I meet in college who needed this kind of snark. The "I can love more people than you" superiority game is tired.
24
Oh, and just an aside - but I'm hearing a lot of people, Dan included, knocking most lesbian porn as being fake. I don't know what you guys are watching, but I'd say at least 40-50% of the lesbian porn I come across (no pun intended) seems pretty enthusiastic to me. The women in it may be pretty femme, but for me, that's a plus, not a minus.
25
@22 -- I agree that such "true" bisexuality is rare. It does seem to be my reality, though. Even the romantic side is true for me. The most important relationship of my twenties was with a man (and it was arguably stronger emotionally and romantically than it was sexually). More recently, I've realized that I'm much more interested in sex with women than with men. But this is true now, but maybe not in the past.

You have no idea how freaky it is to realize that you have loved a man but that now all you can think about is sex with women.
27
Why would a lesbian watch gay male porn? Theory: They want to watch sex taking place, but they don't want to watch women being exploited.
(Not read the rest of the comments yet. I'm sure I will have more to say. Anyone surprised? heheh)
28
@27 ha ha ha. As a somewhat submissive male, if (in porn) I see a woman slap a man and tell him, "do as you're told, bitch!," I'm turned on. If the genders are flipped, my reaction is to want to punch the guy.
29
As a bi gal, I used to get huffy about the idea of straight men watching "lesbian" porn. Admittedly this was back when I was younger and couldn't pull a chick to save my life, so yeah, in part I was jealous that dudes got to enjoy FF action and I didn't. I never really understood what the attraction was in watching people have sex whose stated preference was that they wouldn't want you. Another admission, I'm not really into porn. I'm very picky and while I'm sure porn featuring the types of people I like fucking is out there, I'm not bothered enough about it to go search.

But then I asked myself, if I was going to watch porn, would I watch FF, FM, or MM porn? No hesitation, my answer was MM porn, because it's more taboo. At that moment it clicked in my head, and since then I've never borne any resentment towards straight guys who watch "lesbian" porn. My theory on which is they want to see sex happening, but they don't want to see the (huge) dicks in MF porn, which they (understandably) find intimidating. (Third admission: I find the huge tits in most porn involving women intimidating.)

So here's the bi girl's blessing for all you straight guys to continue to fap to FF porn :)
30
@9 - I have some thoughts based on my life experience as an anthropologist and a kinky person, and sexual enthusiast: I've thought a lot about this stuff. But I'm a dude, so probably not super relevant, or necessarily accurate.
31
@29 might also explain why some lesbians like M-M porn? The "lesbians" in most F-F porn rarely resemble the queer women I've known.
32
So, straight guys should feel bad about not enjoying gay porn? Sheesh.
33
@31: That's more of an explanation of why lesbians *don't like* FF porn aimed for men (there is FF porn aimed for women out there), not why they *do like* MM porn. But yes, good point. The male-aimed FF porn never appealed to me because it was so obviously a performance for the male gaze.
34
@33 - the Male Gaze! Boy, I haven't heard that one for years. Ever since learning about it, I have cherished my capacity to wield this laser-like weapon. Bzzt! Kapow! Mwa ha ha...

But I digress. I wonder - is the lesbian porn I like 'aimed for men'? I kind of don't think so - I prefer the stuff without heels, without an obsessive focus on toys, no men, lots of kissing... am I watching the right stuff? Or the wrong stuff but it feels right?

I think some focus-group research is called for.
35
@33 From my vague understanding, the closer a bi woman is to the straight end of the spectrum, the more likely she is to enjoy F-F porn that is aimed at men. I've seen plenty written by bi-curious women about how they love the stuff, but it appears that few lesbian-identified women are into it.

@34 Almost by definition, mainstream porn is aimed at men. Men are just much more into porn than women are. Sex toys are the other way around.

I once had an on-line conversation with a hetero-curious gay-identified guy, whose interest had been prompted (in part) by a growing fascination with straight porn. I had to explain to him that asking a woman what porn she was into was not a good opener. I sent him a link to a story about the porn that men and women enjoyed, which made the following points: (1) Men are just much more into porn than women are, (2) Women are more likely to enjoy porn that shows cunnilingus (duh), (3) Women are more likely to enjoy porn that features attractive men (hence James Deen).
36
@24: More fun for you if you don't notice the difference, but if the viewer can't get past the awkwardness of g/g or even b/g staged enthusiasm, "they look like they're having fun" isn't much of a consolation :p

Then again, most studio porn is pretty terrible to me, no matter how cute the participants.
37
@34 - As Wm. Gibson said not very long ago at all... "Privilege doesn't feel like privilege. It feels like the way things are. No reason to be aware of it."
38
I recommend this (long, but worth reading) article, that brings a scientific perspective: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazi….
"While the subjects watched on a computer screen [the scientist] measured their arousal in two ways, objectively [swelling in men, genital blood flow in women] and subjectively [participants rated how aroused they felt. [...] Males who identified themselves as straight swelled while gazing at heterosexual or lesbian sex and while watching the masturbating and exercising women. They were mostly unmoved when the screen displayed only men. Gay males were aroused in the opposite categorical pattern. Any expectation that the animal sex would speak to something primitive within the men seemed to be mistaken; neither straights nor gays were stirred by the bonobos. And for the male participants, the subjective ratings on the keypad matched the readings of the plethysmograph. The men’s minds and genitals were in agreement. All was different with the women. No matter what their self-proclaimed sexual orientation, they showed, on the whole, strong and swift genital arousal when the screen offered men with men, women with women and women with men. They responded objectively much more to the exercising woman than to the strolling man, and their blood flow rose quickly — and markedly, though to a lesser degree than during all the human scenes except the footage of the ambling, strapping man — as they watched the apes. And with the women, especially the straight women, mind and genitals seemed scarcely to belong to the same person. The readings from the plethysmograph and the keypad weren’t in much accord. During shots of lesbian coupling, heterosexual women reported less excitement than their vaginas indicated; watching gay men, they reported a great deal less; and viewing heterosexual intercourse, they reported much more. Among the lesbian volunteers, the two readings converged when women appeared on the screen. But when the films featured only men, the lesbians reported less engagement than the plethysmograph recorded. Whether straight or gay, the women claimed almost no arousal whatsoever while staring at the bonobos."
39
@37 - I was not aware of that.

@38 - that's hot!
40
I don't agree with the logic here. I'm a lesbian. I am not attracted to men at all. I don't like their bodies or hair or .. pretty much anything. However, I still enjoy M2M porn. What I find is that there is less "story" and more fucking. Even though the parts aren't what I prefer, I still think it's hot that these guys appear to enjoy themselves. On the other hand, unless it's well made, I do not like F2F or M2F porn because many are very fake seeming and it doesn't appear that the women are actually enjoying themselves. The tag lines "tiny teens" and "MILF" make me want to barf.. opposite of cum. With M2M I feel like they might actually be enjoying it and can get off and worry less about 1 or both parities being victimized, coerced or otherwise disrespected. Maybe that's because I'm outside of the M2M scene and don't understand all the dynamics. Whatever. It still works for me. A gold star lesbian.
41
Hummusbrain @35, I'm a woman and I can't stand to watch cunnilingus. I put it in the same category as me going down on a woman -- both are unappealing.

Plural @38 what bugs me about that analysis is that it seems to prioritize the blood flow over the women's experience. If my genitals respond to something, that could just as easily be preparation for some expected unpleasant sexual event (ie rape). If I say I wouldn't want to fuck the ape, why do the scientists seem to be saying that I must be wrong, or at least that my genitals do want to fuck the ape? Maybe my genitals just worry about the ape wanting to fuck me.

Re bi/lesbian women liking MM porn, I wonder if it correlates with bi/lesbian women who enjoy dildos/strap-ons. Seems to me that if your sex life frequently involves non-bio-cock, then maybe you would find lots of bio-cock fun to watch. I know I like MM porn, though I haven't ever analyzed why.
42
And maybe straight men don't watch gay porn, cause they are worried they might find themselves aroused.
43
http://skepdic.com/penilep.html

The device isn't well-thought of for research, BTW.
44
@38 Actually, I can understand the way some bi women finding people attractive without regards to gender. I have my preferences and "types," but I've found myself attracted to a pretty wide spectrum of people across genders, ages, etc., often more because of their personalities than because of their appearances. I sometimes wonder if my sexuality has some "feminine" characteristics.

@40, Great to have an actual lesbian in the discussion! What would you consider to be "well-made" F2F or F2M porn? I agree that a woman who doesn't appear to be "into it" is a turn-off. And I don't understand the impulse of some men to see women degraded. Oh, and see @27.

Men can definitely be coerced or disrespected by other men. I was once more-or-less sexually assaulted by another man.

@41 I assume you enjoy receiving cunnilingus?
45
EricaP @41: Nothing in the article prioritises the blood flow results, they are simply contrasted with the self-reported results, which is interesting in its own right. If you read the rest of the article you'll see them discussing the very hypothesis you present. Note however that your hypothesis does not explain the blood flow response to viewing FF sex or the exercising woman.

Anyway, my purpose was simply to point out that some of the analyses presented in the article can inform this discussion, not to advocate for any particular right or wrong interpretation.
46
Uh, hello, doesn't seem anyone caught the fact that TONS of straight identifying men watch gay porn. Sure, they mostly do it in secret because of the stigma/ shame still associated with it, but they still watch it. It may be the taboo aspect of it that turns them on, or just the fact that gay men give a damn fine BJ. But to dismiss it as though it doesn't happen is flat out false. They just tend to hide it, and no, they are not all bisexual. Many absolutely do not wish to experience it in real life.

Just had to put that out there.
47
FWIW, there are certainly plenty of gay-identified men who watch straight porn, or else there wouldn't be sites like this: http://sg4ge.com/

Although Dan is correct that such sites tend to focus on the men.

I once had an e-mail correspondence with a gay-identified man who had, by watching straight porn, become fascinated with cunnilingus. He really wanted to try it, and was looking for a MMF threesome. By his own description, he was basically a Kinsey 4 or 5 who hadn't had much experience with women.

48
I'm a straight man and the problem I have with pretty much all porn is that it's so fake it's over-the-top. Fake boobs, fake moaning, fake orgasms, fake lesbians, fake eyelashes, fake dicks, fake storylines, so much makeup it amounts to fake faces, just nothing real. It's a caricature of actual sex, an exercise in trying too hard. Is that what separates "pornography" from "erotica"?
And then there's the issue that I'm mostly interested in breasts, and so I really don't need a close-up of someone's balls, or of someone's butthole, or of someone's dick (seriously, the number of straight guys who presumably like porn where the penis is prominently displayed on the screen may relate to the straight guys watching guy-on-guy porn), and I really really really wish that whoever thought women covered in oil was sexy had thought something else instead. Seriously, who the hell thinks it's sexy to smear oil all over your skin?
49
It seems to me that when FAP asks "why are gay/bi men the only ones who are expected to enjoy M2M porn?" she wasn't saying "why aren't straight men expected to enjoy M2M porn?" but "why are only MEN (bi or gay) expected to enjoy it? Why are females expected not to, even when they are attracted to men?"

So I feel the answer was completely missing the question. And while many females do like M2M porn, it's true that we're apparently not supposed to. I get lots of comments and am expected to justify myself if I mention liking it. I always point out to the fact that straight men like F2F porn so why wouldn't I, a straight female, like M2M porn? But the answer is always "it's not the same!". Not sure how or why. Seems like the same to me.

So I think it really comes down to the idea that women aren't supposed to enjoy porn (or if they do it's with a male partner so why would it involve M2M porn?) and women aren't supposed to masturbate, or whatever. I mean, sure, society's getting a bit better about it. But it's still equating "woman who masturbates" with "woman go gets around". There is no such equation with men.
50
I have always heard about lesbians watching M2M porn. I am a lesbian who has never had even the slightest interest in it. I have found it perplexing (not judging it; just don't relate at all). I do look at a lot of porn that tends to just be solo women. I honestly am not crazy about W2M either. All that said, W2W is absolutely terrible generally, so I understand the unpopularity with lesbians.
51
Hummusbrain@44, I like receiving more than I did in my twenties, but I'd generally rather give a blow job. I can only come from cunnilingus if I get regular vibrator breaks and no one is policing which one tips me over the edge.

Plural @45, when one is called "objective" and the other is called "subjective," I think that sets a certain tone of dismissiveness towards the subjective response. Why isn't the woman's stated preference also considered "objective"? The observer-scientist's subjectivity isn't at play (as it would be if the observer-scientist were evaluating wines, for instance).
52
not for nuthin...

but i'm a 100% straight female into M2M gay porn, along with many other kinds, once in a while. its not all i watch but there is something super duper freaky (the good kind) and sometimes "entertaining" if not "funny"--think SatC when carrie got that gay porn video when she met the hot aussie guy) about male homoerotic video.

i hope that doesn't come off as insulting...don't mean it that way at all.
53
EricaP @41 First off, I love you. You're probably my favorite person posting here and maybe my favorite person who I don't know in the whole world.

Second, yes. Exactly. I may be a straight man with all sorts of privilege and male-gaze superpowers, but I was pretty annoyed by the condescending implication that the women in that study were lying or didn't know what they wanted because their genitals were lubricating in response to stimulus that they said didn't turn them on. The article uses the word "excitement" for both, but they're not the same thing. Increased blood flow to the genitals presumably correlates well with lubrication, which can be a response to a desire to have sex, but is also a pretty good step to avoid injury if sex is likely, whether or not the female in question has any desire for that sex.

Better terminology might be to refer to whether the women reported arousal or desire and whether their vaginas lubricated.

Non-consensual sex is a real thing throughout much of the animal kingdom. It has apparently been a real thing for a lot longer than there have been humans. If a body has the ability to lubricate and doing so can reduce the risk of injury during sex, it would really be surprising if evolution didn't provide a mechanism for lubrication to occur in response to the potential for non-consensual sex.

So women presented with humans and non-human primates mating lubricate, even if the sex involved is not of a type M-M, F-F, ape-ape or whatever that they say they're not into. That's really about as surprising as hearing that water is often wet.
54
Lesbian here who gets down with MM porn. I like that it's easy, free, and plentiful. There's a large variety of content to choose from, the men tend to be more natural looking (i.e. no fake tans, fake boobs, fake nails, fake hair, shaved, etc), they're objectively hot, interesting, and interested in each other. Orgasms are real, attraction between partners also appears to be real. My feminist sensibilities aren't offended or being confronted with the possibility of the exploitation of the women involved.

Also dicks are fun, cocks going into holes are fun and visually arrousing. IRL, I also enjoy strap-on/penetrative sex as both a top and a bottom, and giving/receiving head with silicone cocks...this maybe taps into the same visual stimulation? There's definitely some layer of taboo at play, as well, as I have very little desire for real dicks in my life. Yes, there is quality queer porn out there, which I also consume to a lesser degree (the Crash Pad series as an example), but it's more expensive (rightly so, queer performers need to make a living, too!). It also generally takes more time to navigate, sift through to find what I like, and the content is longer, more involved, and takes its time getting to the point. Sometimes I want to take my time getting to the point, sometimes I want to tune in, turn on, and get off quickly cuz I got shit to do.

I'm always hearing that lesbians into MM porn is a common thing, and yet I've also experienced judgment from partners who don't get it, and apparently didn't get the memo that it's a thing. As Dan has often said, the things that turn us on in fantasy aren't always the things we're interested in acting on in reality.
55
I'm pretty sure there was a study that determined that men like porn featuring the genders they're into, while women get turned on by the sexual feelings rather than the genders involved. This was that study that found women getting turned on by videos of M/F sex, M/M sex, F/F sex, bonobo sex (or was it chimpanzees?), whatever. I believe they asked men and women to watch different kinds of porn, report how aroused they were by each video, and also hooked their genitals up to devices to detect physical arousal. If I weren't a couple beers into my evening, I'd be looking it up, but it was interesting. My personal experiences totally jive with the study's results, as I remember them.
56
dcp123 *blush*

Thanks for the kind words!
57
If you can open your mind to treat gender as nonbinary, the arguments all fall apart. It's not about genitalia.
58
@24: “The women in [the lesbian porn I watch] may be pretty femme, but for me, that's a plus, not a minus.” Exactly – male gaze.

@35: “Women are more likely to enjoy porn that features attractive men” – Well, another duh. We don’t want to fuck ugly men, why would we want to watch ugly men fucking?

@38: One theory behind this is not that women actually find monkey sex a turn-on, but that the vagina subconsciously lubricates as a pre-emptive response to the suggestion of sex of any kind, as a defense against rape. If a woman is wet, rape is less painful. (See also @41 and @53.) I have to say, my vagina lubricates at random intervals. If I feel myself getting wet while grocery shopping, that does not mean heads of cabbage turn me on.

@39: So, no, in that light, it’s not hot at all.

@48: Thank you! I agree. And thanks for providing evidence against the “100% of men like porn” stereotype.
59
I'm a lesbian, who, as you mentioned, enjoys straight porn and occasionally m2m porn. I've asked around because it fascinates me, and almost without exception, no lesbian watches girl on girl porn. But most of us enjoy penetrating ladies and/or being penetrated, a lot of us love strapping it on, I've been with several women who like to pretend they have a real cock, and sometimes I like to pretend they do too...I think it may be fair to say that most of us like dick and everything it stands for, we just aren't attracted to men. We grew up in the same society everyone else did, and penises inarguably have power. Maybe that's part of it.
60
Straight woman here who was surprised by my own love of M2M porn. Gorgeous men, lovely cocks but mostly I get off on THE SOUNDS MEN make. In M2F porn the woman is so loud and so fake I can barely hear the guy. Men encouraging each other and talking dirty. Oh yeah.
61
@38 (and the continuing discussion) - the difference in self-reported arousal and biological arousal doesn't seem troubling to me. Men tend to be very visual in their arousal; that is, what they see is what causes the physiological and mental response. Women tend to not rely so much on the visual; the arousal is more derived from imagination. So for a straight man watching a M-M scene or a gay man watching a F-F scene, there is visually nothing to promote mental arousal, thus no physiological arousal. For women, the disconnect seems to be in the questions being asked rather than a problem with the findings. The woman seeing a sexual encounter, regardless of whether or not it is within their preference, are spurred to imagine their own scenes which are congruent with their preferences, and thus physiological arousal. But when asked how exciting the scene was, the reports are consistent with the actual interest in the women in that scene, not in the fantasy derived from it.

It would be interesting to follow up on that disconnect, or at least ask more relevant questions to the participants. Personally, as a very straight girl (who also doesn't enjoy porn, but does enjoy watching sexual encounters between various gender pairings outside of porn), this is what it feels like to me. I don't get anything directly out of a lesbian encounter, though I do find myself personally invested in the characters and watching their enjoyment reminds me of what it feels like to enjoy someone like that, and that's hot.
62
Why is it that men love F2F porn but only gay/bi guys are supposed to be turned on by M2M porn? M2M porn turns me on even though I know I will never be in a M2M situation.

While it's possible that the percentage of straight women into M2M porn is as high as (or even higher than) the percentage of men into F2F porn, my guess is that that's not the case.

I've never been with a woman who was into (or at least admitted to being into) M2M porn but then only one of the women I've been with was into porn at all (she was bi and liked both M2F and F2F porn.) If I was with a woman who was into M2M porn, I'd watch it with her even though it's something I wouldn't watch by myself. I'd watch it with her because I'd get turned on by seeing her get turned on.
63
@ 58 - What about carrots? Cucumbers? Eggplants? (Just joking)
64
Erica P, were you actually on the swim team? Can't get that one fantasy of yours out of my head.*
Re porn, as soon as I found amateur stuff in the 90's, I find pretty much everything else unwatchable.
I remember finding Dana DeArmond on Burning Angel in the early Oughts, when it was all still photos, and though the Bettie Page thing has been done so much it's starting to come out the other side, she pulled it off. I dumped my membership after a month, but later, hearing that not only was there actual video, but of Ms D and that perfect ass being seen to, I signed back up so fast I'm pretty sure my keyboard smoked.
Well. I could stand about 15 seconds of the caterwauling and staring at the camera, then had to log off, a broken husk of a man... Their other videos were much the same. I get it that the director or whomever is coaching this, but no thanks. These days, it's women who have always wanted to try porn, don't think doing it's a big deal, and who genuinely enjoy getting fucked.
Hey, there's a lot of crappy literature on the shelves out there (my local library has not one but Two copies of the latest John Ringo, god), but we don't say 'books suck.'
Tell me you think 80%+ of published literature is not much good, I can't argue.

*All participants willing, and 18 or over. Proof of age on file.
65
@64, I liked the swim coach more than the coach of my actual sport, so I switch them around in my head. Re your asterisk, it's hot for me to picture myself underage (but post-puberty), with an older man taking advantage of me. I might feel differently if my fantasies centered on being the older initiator rather than the younger victim.
66
#65 - Fair enough.
That assistant, brown hair, about 5'7?
67
Sorry, the assistant is completely imaginary, Cat Brother; just a bit player brought on to fill a hole.