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Comments
And I don't read any hate towards white people in what she said @2 and what she said is true about power as well. She may hurt you individually or hurt your feelings personally but she has no power to oppress your race. She dodge the question a little but she's pointing out a very important fact about how it works.
I can understand rage, especially youthful rage. But stomping out other citizens' free speech is nothing but mischief. It wasn't any liberal racism that caused the anger of the crowd; it was the contempt shown for their efforts to practice the basics of democracy.
Why the Stranger and MSNBC are amplifying and legitimating this childish and dangerous political nihilism is beyond me. I thought Charles Mudede's critique was spot on.
WTF
I think some of these folks actually have forgotten who their enemies are and what they are like.
if non votes were votes, while would Republicans try to disenfranchise black people?
Will nobody address the issue of consent? The people in the audience did not consent to give up their afternoon to listen to these two stage-stormers. The people who organized the rally did not consent to give their time to organizing political theater. They had their efforts stolen from them, and what they feel is exactly the anger they should feel.
Oddly, people who are normally very much in favor of obtaining consent seem to have their values disappear in a poof when conflicted over white guilt. If you were in the audience and were happy to give your time to these two speakers, hats off to you. However, nobody asked the person sitting next to you if they were willing to give their time.
How come BLM gave HRC a free pass today?
Seriously, though, even though I thought my initial kneejerk anger through over the weekend and got the message she was trying to send, the more it becomes about her, the madder I get. I know that I don't have to like her. I also know that the anger is valid. I know that. But the more she talks, the less focused she is, and it's starting to really bug me.
"I don't give a fuck about the white gaze." Then why are you going on MSNBC?
Because she doesn't care about the white gaze, I feel like the things she's looking for, she's just not paying attention to whether they happen or not but continuing to accuse them of not happening.
This, from her Facebook: "Please note that white people have now demanded more explanations of me, a person who has no social or political power to affect their lives about confronting a rich old white man, than they have of politicians and police around the genocide, slavery, and disposability of Black lives in America."
She is a great speaker and could do amazing things if she bothered to offer solutions. But she seems absolutely nihilistic and narcissistic, and is enjoying the attention quite a bit. (Trait I'm suspecting of being Millennial in origin, tbh.) It's so fucking frustrating that she's throwing it all towards burning shit down.
My question is, since so many members of the Mt Calvary Christian Center, who ARE virulently anti-gay bigots, were part of her contingent - is she an anti-gay bigot? What are here other attitudes about social justice for every minority group like gays? And if she is a an anti-gay bigot would it be cool if Gay activists crashed her next BLM event and shut it down?
Some people may say well that's irrelevant. No. No. It's not. She has now successfully made her self the poster child of tactic - not a social justice moment - a tactic. The BLM stuff as far as the media and the left at large is concerned is totally secondary. So. What does she feel about gay marriage and marriage equality? And who else can use this tactic of shutting shit down to get attention just because there is a captive audience?
I think the young women WERE addressing the issue of consent. Black people are definitely (and loudly) withdrawing their consent to be dominated by a system that privileges light skinned people to the point that young black men are disposable, more or less.
The young black leaders Bernie marched with were assassinated under regimes run by Bernie's predecessors in power. Not much has changed, has it?
I see why people are screaming. Don't you?
And, yes, I'm curious how that evangelical christianity is working out in regards to her acceptance of others who make lifestyle choices her lord might not agree with.
http://www.thefalcononline.com/2010/11/b…
Your statement reveals exactly the hypocrisy of your privilege. Evidently it has escaped you that the core problem of structural racism is that it affects people who have not given their consent. Their whole lives. And the fact that you are OUTRAGED by a single event that didn't go the way that you wanted it to, that made you feel put out, is EXACTLY how victims of structural racism feel every single day of their lives. Can you put on your empathy hat for a minute and really think about that? Think about how desperately hopeless, how beat down, how disenfranchised you would feel when something like this happens to you every day of your life? I admit that when I saw it happen, I, too, was pissed off. It took me at least a day to realize that my anger and resentment of the 'interruption' were, in the grand scheme of things, a speck of sand compared to how this country has treated black people for over 200 years. This is not white guilt. This is a realization that I was not listening, and was not thinking about others as much as I was thinking about myself.
Get a grip and come to terms with the fact that if you believe that everyone must always be respectful of your time and your feelings, then you are truly the shiniest example of privilege in this city. Because most people don't. They can't even imagine what that would actually feel like if everyone actually was respectful of their time and their feelings. And that is fucking sad.
Let's face it, her 15 minutes ran out when she supported Palin.
However right their cause might be, I really hope they're embarrassed and ashamed by the comparison of their chosen methods.
2) You attitude towards Sanders displays your incredible naivete towards the political situation in America today. It shows you haven't been paying attention, and talk from people who just woke up and recently realized about this 'injustice' thing is damn cheap. Overly emotional shrieking and complete historical ignorance is the province of the right-wing blovosphere. Seriously, if you can't tell the difference between Sanders and any other politician, you're no different than people like O'Reilly & Limbaugh.
3) The big thing these two need to realize is how completely fucked up things are. BLM is important and vital. It's on a long list of other issues that are important and vital. The attitude that BLM somehow trumps all others is just immature egotism. What about women's access to healthcare? What about economic inequality? Your actions show that you don't care about anything else but yourself and your super-cool "uppitiness."
The real problem with liberalism is that they allow this kind of bullshit to take place.
Then, people show up to demand that single payer be on the table according to the bulk of medical opinion and the bulk of opinion among the American people - and they're arrested and thrown out.
These women are fake radicals. Hiding behind a big Christian bullshit cross and bullshit blackness. They go to an expensive school and have no concerns about real economic issues and real justice. They're just narcissistic, selfish egomaniacs.
It was horribly unfair what they did, but the attention this paper gives them - instead of social security and Medicare is just plain stupid.
15,000 people turned out to see Bernie Sanders -- and it would be 20,000 except for the fact that they destroyed a rally and destroyed 5,000 from the total count, plus, they destroyed an opportunity for the American people to hold a political candidate accountable on issues related to social security and Medicare.
These two programs are critical to ending poverty in the United States. They are conservatives exploiting issues related to racism. Stop handing them a damn mic.
It's social security's birthday this week. Where is the coverage?
I wasn't actually at the event, so it's no skin off my ass. But this did deliver a "teachable moment" to me. It taught me never to participate in an event where BLM will be allowed on stage. Similar to "Occupy"-- which collapsed with no real gain and had many of the early active members walk off in disappointment-- the lack of org structure makes it impossible for the group to deliver a message or work towards an achievable goal.
That's never going to happen at this rate. The subversion of the rally was heartbreaking. I'm sad that the organizers didn't have security on the stage to fend off the interlopers. This was disgraceful and extremely negligent treatment of your featured speaker.
"I helped launch a national conversation around race and electoral politics and respectability that still going strong two days later." -- Marissa Johnson
A tossup as to which one is more self-aggrandizing? Or is "demented" a better term?
You know what I see here? A lot of white peoples,e who can't wrap their head around that maybe black people are getting to the point where they don't give fuck what we think, and don't give fuck about our time table for their issues.
I don't think they're right wing plants, I think they're just right wing shits who love the idea of deeming one of the most progressive presidential candidates that we've ever had. They know very well that if the African American population sees Sanders as just another "old rich white guy" (while ignoring the presidence of potentially having our first Jewish president after our first black one) who they shouldn't get excited or hopeful about.
They're assholes. Homophobic, Sarah Palin loving ones at that. And of course they don't care what we think! They're conservatives! They hate the idea of freedom for everyone and will stoke the bullshit so that we can have a conservative in office in about a year and a half.
If you believe that they actually have these grievences and stopped Bernie's speech in the hope of creating real change, you're absolutely delusional.
Indeed, in her rhetoric we can hear a young person who seems to think that hers is the only conscience on the block regarding BLM. But, we didn’t need her self-aggrandizing guerilla tactic to teach us what we already know because – after all, Of Course, Black Lives Matter! No sane human being (regardless of color) disputes that. Frankly, we know and have known for decades that the sick, insidious, racial bigotry that can be found virtually everywhere in this so-called “land of the free” is a profound pathology from which the body politic has not yet been purged, let alone cured.
By their grandstanding, what Johnson and the others apparently failed to “get” is that BLM was not being disparaged by the fact that the issues at this rally were focused on social, economic and retirement security, all of which ALSO matter to most folks (regardless of color). So, in the end, what Johnson et al. succeeded in gratuitously sabotaging and precluding was a rally to support no less worthy causes also deserving the support of all.
Contrary to some comments here, however, I dispute that what Johnson and the others did in commandeering the stage and microphone reflected poorly or negatively on the BLM movement itself because the legitimacy and righteousness of the cause of Black Lives Matter stand by themselves, in no way diminished or done a disservice by what Johnson and her cohorts did in the name of BLM. In fact, that cause, among others, lies and remains at the heart of what American consciousness in the 21st century must face and process, and the sooner the better after centuries of delay.
What Johnson did was the deluded confused act of a wacko religious freak on a self-indulgent solipsistic ego trip fueled by a sense of racial ethnocentric entitlement. The Chinese have an expression for folks who are so full of themselves that you can't tell them anything: [so-and-so] is a full cup. Here we have a young woman who thinks hers is the only conscience on the block. Of Course, Black Lives Matter! No sane human being (regardless of color) disputes that. And that was never the issue at this rally, where social, economic and retirements security ALSO matter to folks (regardless of color).
I do give a fuck about racist cops gunning down black people.
Huh, I guess that's why Sanders spent the past three weeks literally courting a member of BLM to become his press secretary. Just shows that even when changes are made, they go completely unrecognized.
she's only black if you buy the (racist) one-drop rule. she's just as white as obama - more, considering that her parents raised her fundamentalist and conservative. obama's mom was a wild woman - a leftist radical, if you will.
As an example of a smart way to not give a fuck, I offer ACT UP's targeted actions at St. Patrick's and the like, or the Code Pink protesters: Know what you are doing, know your targets, and know what you are going to say. What they did was just a dumb mess, and trying to justify it is the sort of liberal condescension that conservatives talk about.
"dismantling the system that has never, ever, ever, ever done anything for black people and never will."
so, modern day Rosa Parks?
At the same time, I can also understand how those who desire social justice are concerned that this kind of action will play into the forces of the status quo and anti-progressive reactionaries. The political left was torn apart by identify politics in the 1960s and the radical right took advantage to install and then entrench their reactionary, anti-progressive regime. At the same time, the feminist movement, anti-war movement, civil rights movement, gay rights movement, etc. were necessary and have contributed a great deal to social progress in this country, despite the fact that much work remains to be done.
So, it seems the challenge is to build and strengthen a broad-based, progressive coalition that not only addresses ALL forms of social injustice and their structural components--whether based on race, gender, class, ethnicity, or sexual orientation--but that ALSO does so in a way that doesn't alienate potential allies so that it can actually play a role in shaping policies and decisions at all levels of the political system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLXzxqcZ…
http://www.blackagendareport.com/node/46…
And I don't like her one bit . . .
@36, Bravo to @36, sums it up the no Stranger staffer (or Seattle Weekly staffer) ever could!
what a wonderful false equivalency, really drives the point home how little she thinks of others. then again how dare those people being shouted at have feelings about being unfairly labeled by a young naive woman that has obviously lived a lifetime of inequality
"Even if I did hate white people, I don't have the political or social power to oppress white people. And it's verifiably false [that I hate white people]. So flip that. The question is actually, Do you love black people? To the extent that you are literally willing to sacrifice your life. Are you on some Underground Railroad type stuff, or are you not? Because that's the tip I'm on. So I think framing is really important."
yes. underground railroad type stuff. how oppressive can those aging liberal white supremacists on and soon to be on medicare and social security benefits be? super oppressive apparently, booing-ly oppressive. just leaving emotional scars that will never heal like a whip lashing at the backs of the poor and enslaved.
ACT-UP also completely disrupted the UNGASS (UN General Assembly Special Session) on AIDS in 2006 over the issue of access to meds. That is now widely regarded as fundamentally transforming access to care in the global south. And many veterans of that effort are panning hard for the upcoming UNGASS on global (illicit) drug policy.
ACT-UP, Fight Back! is indeed a good model for Black Lives Matter and I hope they do a shit ton more.
protests work to bring light to issues unseen and then the people democratically do the rest. police reform and the issue of police brutality is not as straight forward as denying medicine to sick people. not even as straight forward as drug reforms, which would be an ultimate start to ending racially driven policing and imprisonment tactics.
the power of voting will work incrementally but it will work peacefully. what would those interruptors have us do? start a new civil war? break people out of prison?
the idea is to change the criminal behavior of the powers that be without the use of criminal behaviors ourselves.
Look, everyone said we couldn't legalize MJ or gay marriage and I had to show people how, and embarrass the Powers That Be by using effective tactics. Racism is pretty much the same.
But you need effective tactics.
Which these aren't.
And you had fuck all to with the effort to legalize cannabis. You weren't involved in any way shape or form with either I-75 or 502 (except maybe by donating, and I doubt you even did that).
People keep asking why they did this at a Sanders rally. My take on it is that the women are from Seattle and Sanders was visiting Seattle. If it had been any other candidate they would have tried the same thing, although they wouldn't have been as successful. Their message was more about the racism that exist in progressive Seattle. They think that progressives talk a good game, but don't actually show up.
They could have done it at a Republican event, but no one be shocked to find out that they are racist. They are saying that they don't want to follow, but lead. Sure Sanders might be their best option, but that doesn't mean in their minds that it won't just be the same old same old.
If they had been successful doing this at a Republican rally they would have been cheered on by progressives. I have been greatly disturbed by the name calling that I read on progressive site. Using all kinds of nasty names. I read one comment of someone say that if they were there they would have punched them in the face. What's up with that?
I would also point out that disrupting conservative events has been a tactic used by progressives for decades. Why should this be viewed any differently?
I think that they have some legitimate concerns. People say that they are attacking the one candidate that is most concerned about racism in this country and that BLM should dialogue with Sanders, instead of attack him for being a racist. But like the saying goes the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
These women were not paid to do this by any candidate trying to tarnish Sanders.
Although, few people will change their minds when ordered to bow down before them. And her comment that if she called you a racist, and your first thought is about yourself then you're a white supremacist who does that when someone calls you an offensive name. If she is an evangelical Christian why is she throwing around the word fuck? I know that it carries weight, but don't they teach you in church not to use such language?
I am interested in learning their views on Obama's Presidency? .
@53 and @64 FTW. Act-Up is the best model for political theater that actually forces change.
Did they pay for the whole structure of advertising that rally? No.
Did they play ANY part in the effort to gather that rally? No.
So they had no right to disrupt it with their personal or class beef, no matter how morally right their cause is. They made it wrong just by stealing other people’s time and money. That’s the game as it currently stands. Period.
Next time they wish to speak to a rally, they are fully welcome to pay for their own microphone and PA, and go through all the whole damn effort it takes to make it happen, and good luck to them.
They all carried Mao's Little Red Book, and could quote it verbatim, without understanding what they were saying. They all slept under a poster of Che on the wall above their bed. They all knew the latest slogans, and it seemed like that was ALL they knew. They all were fans of the Symbionese Liberation Army. Whenever they grabbed the mike, they never gave it back, and they never spoke at anything less than a yell or a scream or a shout.
They're a big part of why Richard Nixon got elected, because people who REALLY wanted to bring about political change were so turned off by their tone-deaf drivel that we gave up political activism.
Be careful. You may not be doing yourselves any favors when you act up.
Bern baby Bern, disco inferno. Gonna dance, gonna shout, gonna Bern this disco down.
There you have it. Narcissist, childish clown.
Go fuck yourself, elderly racist scum.
Uh .. was she even alive during the Rodney King riots or earlier, the Watts riots? We need police, but we do NOT need abusive police! We've gotten so "tough on crime" (which is bullshit), that we've hired men and women who, in the past, would NEVER have made it past the psych testing OR training necessary to be a GOOD cop! And, ALL OF US asked for that stupid "war on crime!" And that's just ONE thing she said that tipped me off to her youth, inexperience, lack of wisdom and a 'wish list' that IS being addressed.
I heard NO concrete "how to" either. Maybe people are sick of battling that and think that POVERTY is the underlying problem for ALL of the problems facing both minorities and soon, all classes except that top 1%!
Buck up, buttercup! We are almost ALL in the same damn boat!
Listening to their rhetoric, myself and those around me were amazed at how crazy they sounded. Most of it was a diatribe against white people and all the sins they have committed, as if any race has an angelic past. If they really believed that black lives matter, then they should have spent their few minutes on stage educating , not insulting the attendees who just tuned them out. Lastly, Westlake does not belong to them. They should have spoken their piece and left.
Everything she says and does is for effect. Nothing she says and wants will happen. It didn't happen under Obama. And it's not going to happen under our next President. Who is going to be white.
One can't say that they're starting a conversation when no ones listening.
The only ears that count are the upper echelon of the Congress and Senate. On the National and State level.
It's not going to matter until those who truly think that the BLM Movement actually matters vote with what they say in public. And not behind the curtain of the voting booth.
Me, I don't care about BLM. or their needs, concerns, wants. It doesn't affect me. And I'm not white either. Because I'm not concerned with those who don't care about others. If you want to hate on another race. Then FUCK YOU and anything about you. You want something, then give something.
How does a couple of right wing Evangelicals taking over an event mean the left doesn't do coalitions?
Ok, so I know the knee-jerk reaction from a lot of whites, even liberals, is disgust for how these activists interrupted someone who is "on their side." But you know what?
She definitely doesn't see things the way I do...but now I see things the way she does.
And I mean, "Wow!" She makes so many incredibly valid points. What a brilliant mind.
I think this article is worth reading twice. If something she's saying doesn't make sense, it's not because SHE's not making sense. I get her, though. She's looking at the big picture. On a deeper level.
It is hard to wrap my head around sometimes because I do not process things in the same way as she or other blacks do. I have not, after all, lived with almost CONSTANT oppression like many non-whites have.
Besides the effects of oppression--on an individual, a family, a town, a society, a country, a culture--having to deal with it constantly means they think about it almost ALLLL the time. Or, you know, a lot. Whereas whites, well, let's be honest: many of us give it just a little thought now and then. So many "good causes". We can't think about them all, all the time, Sigh. But they live it, day in and day out.
So okay, besides the fact that I'm not black, I guess since she has spent more time thinking and processing the subject, I will defer to her expertise....
...besides the fact that she sounds like a fricken genius!!!
In many ways, her intellectual process is on a higher or different level.
Then that phrase has no meaning anymore. If that's the barrier for being labeled a white supremacist, I have no issue with you calling me that. I might pour water over your head if you say it to my face, but that's as far as I'd take it.
To anyone uncomfortable with her saying this, remember she's a self-labeled extremest. She's delivering the message in a rough package, and once we get past our initial reflex to defend ourselves, we'll be able to try to understand what she actually means. What she's saying is that (black) lives matter more than (white) feelings, and if you think about your feelings before lives, you're part of the problem.
None of us are under any obligation to "try to understand what she really means". Most of us have busy lives with varying degrees of difficulties, be it economic or health related. These girls do not deserve any more respect or understanding than anyone else. So quit it with the White Knight bullshit. Both girls shit all over Sanders and the organizers of the event. As many have pointed out, an event specifically about Social Security and Medicare. Two programs that essential to many of us, regardless of race. Johnson and her screaming halfwit partner know nothing about Sanders' ideology or background. "Bow down"? Only a megalomaniac nut job would ever utter those words.
The problem is falsely labelling people "white supremacists" for having a negative emotional reaction to someone screaming "RACIST!" in their faces. This speechjacking was nothing more than trigger-word hyperbole being taken way too far, and it is not racist to point that out.
A. Were you there or have you seen full video of what happened?
B. Did you listen to the full interview on TWIB?
Because I dont believe that you could have done both A and B, and then in any way justify their behavior.
A I was there, and B I listened to the interview as opposed to just reading the parts the stranger chose to print. I think a lot of people who want to say, "she makes a good point", are basing this off of headlines and clips. Why would you say its okay to act like a child when you dont get what you want? Stearns offered to let them speak after Bernie, and their reaction to that was to shake the podium and scream. Seriously? And then after their rant, it still wasnt good enough. They asked Bernie to come over like it was school yard fight. Nothing but a couple of narcissists. I cannot support any person or organization or movement that supports that kind of behavior. Not to mention most of her arguments make absolutely no sense. If you, "dont care about the white gaze", then why disrupt an event to scream about how white people arent doing enough? Also, you cant make threats at people (we will shut this event down) and then when they boo, call them racists and then use that as proof of their racism. Also, Sanders' campaign was already working on a social justice platform. Please stop trying to give these people credit. If you still think these people are so great then check out their real movement, Outside Agitators 206. In their four points of unity, 3. We don’t directly speak to corporate media, nor do we need them... I would like to point out that there is a link to her interview with MSNBC. I guess I missed the day that MSNBC stopped being corporate media. They both have public Twitter pages. If you look at them I think its pretty easy to see that these 2 were in it for their 15 minutes, they were not in it for positive change.
re "These girls do not deserve any more respect or understanding than anyone else." Agreed. The movement is about equal treatment, not preferential treatment.
re "shit all over Sanders and the organizers of the event." Sometimes that's the point of protests. It's unfortunate this happened at a good, important event. They obviously weren't protesting SS, Medicare, and Medicaid; they were there because of the access to Sanders. The discussions they've provoked needed to happen.
I'm certainly not saying it was a perfect protest, or that there aren't some weird things about the whole thing, or that I agree with all their language. The whole "Bow down" thing - I don't understand that; their suspect link with "official BLM Seattle" (whatever that is) still confuses me. But those details aren't very important and seem like a waste of energy at this point; these protestors aren't the ones running for office.
In the TWIB interview, Johnson asserted a problem is people valuing their own feelings over the lives of other people, which seems really hard to argue with.
Can you hep me understand why it's not okay for Johnson to have a negative emotional reaction from the threats of physical violence from multiple voices in the supposedly progressive crowd, and why it is okay for individuals in the crowd to have negative emotional reactions at simply the perception of subsequently being called racist?
So many of the commenters here sound like awful and unconsciously racist and petulant children, and I wanted to lend my voice in support of her political views, but also wanted to express my disdain for her evangelical Christianity and the possibility that she's anti-gay.
I don't think she needed to be polite because I don't think black people need to be polite. Direct, disruptive action like this DOES get noticed. I applaud her chutzpah and I hope she continues to agitate for many more years to come. Because it is going to be a very long time before America is close to being able to treat black people with respect and dignity. Such a long way to go still.
"but first learning about what you're talking before weighing-in leads to a much richer discussion. Saying you're too busy to even try to understand the intent of their action, though you do have time to read the Slog and comments, then post on the subject yourself multiple times - hopefully you can reprioritize."
I was at the rally. I've read the girls' subsequent interviews and social media posts. Does that qualify me to comment on the subject, Mr. Aribratator? Please englighen.
Like most, I have my own life and challenges. I know that you, Johnson and her ilk do not care or cannot imagine what those challenges may be, that we should all carve out more space in our lives to dedicate to someone that labels people "white supremist" without ever speaking to any of them. Yet it is me that should "learn what I'm talking about". Wow.