Offensive to Whom? What the Cuntz, Child Abuse, and Christeene Controversies Say About Seattle


The word cunt appears at least three times on Victory Lounge's bathroom wall.
Seen through the filter of fifth wave meta-feminism, the only bands worth booking are of course Childbirth, Tacoca-space-T, and Pony Time, though rumors have it that all three bands are forming a supergroup called Trigger Warning.
I'm going to hate this comment section: SHUT IT DOWN.
" I'm here to think about and consider what women are bringing to the conversation for a change. What are you doing? Are you just trying to do the same shit you're always doing?"

Right. So we're both doing absolutely nothing then?
I say cunt all the time. Mostly while driving. It's like calling someone a dick. I consider myself a feminist and I don't get why this is offensive. Someone please explain?
Marcus Wilson and many in the punk scene, whether gay or straight, have issues with inclusivity of women and people of color. Good conversation but they are not the ones to determine whether something is offensive or harmful to a community they know absolutely nothing of.
Tet Offensive speech should not be tolerated, e.g. “…You think we waste gooks for democracy? Don't kid yourself; this is a slaughter, and if I'm gonna get my balls shot off for a word I get to pick my own word and my word is poontang…"*

I find it interesting that the term Viet Cong is considered offensive, even in this particularly ham-fisted rock-n-roll context, to the same degree as Black Pussy. Or better, offensive in a similar manner.

I am sure many North Vietnamese and respective South Vietnamese – those who were sympathetic to the North and/or were VC members – might not take the same umbrage a southern Vietnamese would; most especially if they or loved ones suffered at the hands of the VC in that bloody and long war.

But then again, who suffered the most in that war, the Second Indochina War? As badly as US armed forces suffered, it was an order of magnitude less than the North Vietnamese alone. So, should we take offense at a band called JFK or LBJ? I guess it depends, as the linked Vice/Noisey article makes clear when citing the much beloved Joy Division.

So, is offense always simply offense? For example, in regard to BP, I do not find that name edgy, or ironic, or whatever. Juvenile, yes. However, many things are juvenile (such as myself), but are they worthy of dispute? In the case of BP, I would mumble yes - not so much a boycott as an agreed disappointment - in that they are harkening to a self-image, however mocking, that quite unwittingly holds speculum up to the this world as opposed to the world they imagine themselves in. Or, in their own words, a “...’sex-charged, 70s-influenced, hide-your-daughters-because-they’re-coming-to-town rock ‘n’ roll band’…”

Back to the linked Vice/Noisey article that ends with the line, “…but if you’re involving your art with anything to do with politics, history, sociology, ecology, the environment, or whatever then you have a responsibility to know your shit.”

I don’t know…this would seem to yield too much sway to the encyclopedists as simply knowing more about what you are talking about, while always advisable, does not necessarily equate to any particular morality. For example, there have always been very well educated racists, misogynists, colonialists, etc…products of the times, some might say, with or without apology. Perhaps that is all we will ever be.

*Full Metal Jacket

Honestly, these bands chose the names to get attention. It's fairly childish on their part but if you are offended, don't listen to them or go to their concerts.
I gotta go examine some of my life choices, because I have no clue how I wound up in bands that are playing both of these shows.

@9 from what I understand, Viet Cong had absolutely no idea what their name meant when they chose it. seeing how they're Canadian, that's a plausible excuse. you may take that comment however you'd like.
For one, I find the idea of a woman being forced to wear a veil, and mid-day no less, to be horribly misogynistic. So I hope we won't be seeing them anytime again soon. For another, I'm glad Chasity Belt cancelled their lo-fi show tonight, in anticipation of my protest of their light-hearted use of the name of a medieval torture device used to oppress women.
I could give a shit about these bands' names, but I'm pretty disgusted by how childish and defensive most of the seattle punk community's reaction has been to the slightest bit of pushback on these topics.With the Black Pussy debate, most of these 30, 40something white dudes first move was to tell black women what is and isn't racist and sexist.
Seriously, what the fuck?
@14 the most vehement defense of cancelling the show came from an admitted "cis gendered privileged white male" -- go figure.
This is at a weird intersection of cultures- so I'm all sorts of conflicted about it. Back when I was in college taking 'Womens Studies' classes, folks like Andrea Dworkin held sway, and it was hard to find a place as a feminist dude. Back when I was in art school I attended a conference on censorship and had a chance to spend some time with Avedon Carol. She explained it as 'first wave' Feminism being about opening doors, and how fun it was to break barriers and take on new roles. 'Second wave' Feminism was about closing doors, censoring, and excluding people. She pointed to what she saw as strong anti-gay, anti-trans, and racist sentiments in that movement. Certainly, like this argument, the truth lies somewhere in the middle- and I guess it falls to us to think about the implications, either way.
hey 16 you've got the waves wrong dude. Sounds like you're meaning to talk shit about third wave, not 2nd.

1st wave = Women's suffrage, women as more than chattel, Susan B. & Soujurner T. et al
2nd wave = Out of the house & into the workplace, Betty F. and Gloria G. et al
3rd wave = Riot grrls, intersectional feminism, LGBT inclusive, sex worker inclusive, etc. Luminaries TBD.

...but please continue to mansplain feminism to us based on that class you took.
Cuntz offends some people, and not others. No one has the authority to tell people what to be offended by. If a venue doesn't want to have a band play, that's their prerogative. But there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong about having an offensive band name, especially since everyone's mileage varies. And no, progressives shouldn't be allowed to define what is offensive anymore than right-wing Christians. I feel we're getting back to the PMRC/heavy metal and D&D hysteria/satanic panic days as the kids of yesterday become of the outraged parents of today, and I can't quite tell if it's funny or sad.
@17- I think this may be the issue as to why folks who are sympathetic feel like there is no place for them. I clearly stated that I was simply repeating what I'd been told, re-stated that I didn't have a dog in the hunt, and that I didn't feel one or the other was correct, and you feel the need to belittle, rather than offer a fuller or different explanation. I had, and have, no intent to talk shit about any wave.
I think in A. Carol's view, we were only chatting about post-war feminism, and the first wave would have been the start of what you describe as the early part of the second wave, with the later part being what she was describing as second. Obviously she has built an entire career pushing back against the anti-sex, censorship-enthused portion of the movement, so she has an agenda. I don't mean to foster that agenda, but she is the only 'name brand' feminist social critic I've ever personally interacted with, so I was and still am a bit starstruck.
I want art to be provocative, and some of that provocation is going to be offensive to someone. Being offended or upset is important. It causes you to think, react, discuss, and re-evaluate things. It disturbs me that the left is campaigning to ban shows because they feel offended. If you feel offended, write articles about how regressive the band is, but suggesting that they shouldn't be allowed to exist is a really conservative way of dealing with this issue.

And a name taken out of context doesn't hold a lot of meaning. What are these bands writing about? What was the intent behind the name? Those are the things that I'd form an opinion on.