You should have just walked out halfway through.

Most of them absolutely have to put up with it, to even be in the room.

I would never do that.

i'll tell ridley scott how to make a movie: don't make Prometheus.

Will there be a farewell post for Brendan Kiley now that he's gone from here?

Dan, you misremembered this. Donald Glover doesn't do this to Kristin Wiig. It was the OTHER black guy in the room, Chiwetel Ejiofor who clicks the pen against Wiig's head. http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015… For proof.

Also, (as a reader of the book) many little things are left in the film that without the books background/extra explination don't make any sense.

In the book, Wiig and Ejiofor's characters are quite chummy at NASA so this is not out of the blue at all.

Sounds like they didn't establish why these two characters would behave this way together and they probably should have cut it. Even the best films have a clunky moment or two. I'd probably get hung up processing that too, though.

I don't really buy that a guy with no social skills would be wearing that scarf....Honestly I was hoping that Danielle Brooks would get the part of the socially inept pushy scientist that doesn't just do the math but you know finds the orbital dynamics solution for the maneuver.

What is truly sad is this is the one scene that was made in the most ridiculous way possible. I don't know if it is a fault of Ridley* or the script, but this was shot in the most dumbest way possible so the common audience would understand it. In the book, Donald Glover's character isn't at that meeting, Ejiofor explains it. But they don't go into the "pen/ship-person/planet" description. They just talk about the flyby and Wiig's character understands it (even being press secretary, she does work at NASA.)

*This scene reminded me of Deckard's briefing in Blade Runner. Why wouldn't this Cop who is supposed to be the best know all about Nexus 6 units? That scene was terrible exposition written just for the audience.

Seems to me like the next step in manned flight would be to station a permanent orbiting base like the ISS around Mars (or the Moon).

Then you could outfit it with a number of LEM style landers for getting back and forth.

At that point, the base would always be in reach and have excellent scanning and telegraphic capabilities so it could easily spot anyone on the planet.

Dan, you also got this wrong: The pen he "rudely pulls out of Daniels pocket" doesn't get pulled until the Stapler (which is the space ship) reaches earth and the pen is the chinese supply rocket. Lets just get our facts straight here before you interject sexism into something that really isn't there.

Yes, Scott is a genius. He also did some racist bullshit when he cast Exodus, so...no surprise there.

Also wrong (wow Dan) Glover's character does not work for NASA. He works at JPL. And being the social outcast he is, of course he has no idea who the head of NASA is.

Ok, that one is my fault. Mis-read the line.

Matt Demon ruined The Martian with his asshole comments over the last few weeks about "diversity" and gay actors needing to stay in the closet. WTF??

Haven’t seen it, but if at no point do two women indicate a mutual interest in anything other than A Man, it fails the Bechdel–Wallace test. Doesn’t have to be romantically, the point is that women’s lives orbit around men’s.

If two women are discussing getting a man back from Mars, they’re talking about a man. Fails Bechdel–Wallace.

If in so doing they they take time to explain physics or mechanics to eachother or geek out over tools or complain about bad food or uncomfortable clothes, they aren’t talking about the man any more. Passes Bechdel–Wallace.

All films need to be cleared by Dan (a man by the way), to make sure that Women are treated how he thinks they should be treated in a wholly fictional Hollywood movie.

Thanks to Dan bringing this scene up, thousands of women in Seattle won't be poked with a pen.

Three Cherrs for Dan... Yeah, yea, ye...

Well, was Matt's performance detracted from because you knew he really is just some regular guy with oodles of daughters, or did you really feel his Martian adventure?
He is so boring, I won't be bothering..
Is his ability to pretend to be an astronaut iimpressive, or you know, You just can't forget he's a regular guy with many daughters?

It was symbolic , the pen incident, perhaps. Poke poke.

Hard to imagine Hollywood making this movie with a woman in the lead role.

Okay, Dan. Agreed there is a lot of gender bias across the board in our society. But shouldn't you look at the scientists as scientists, and not as men and women? If our role doesn't take precedence over our gender, then how will we ever achieve a gender balanced society? Being a male, I failed (I prefer the term 'chose' not) to sit in the boardroom, the lab, the newsroom, or pretty much anywhere else. But I do iron a mean shirt! Does that make me a failure to men or is it that we are to look through gender and accept each other for what we do and don't honestly achieve as individuals. Why am I obligated to stand up for men's or women's causes (or be shamed) just cuz I have a dick? You noticing there are too many men as the power scientist in the movie may be as bad as them portraying too few women in the roles. To wrap our head around the why in this movie, we'd have to ask ourselves who is the intended target audience. Did they (the movie making elite) succeed? After all, movie making is a capitalistic business. Now if you want to argue the ills of an overreaching private sector obligating us via their one side contracts and thereby basically wiping out our freedoms, then you've got me. However, I read the book (not a piece of art, but interesting fiction). I walked away from the book with the idea that this story is about only one person, and that person can have only one gender. Hmmm. What to do...

The movie SUCKED, unless you go in expecting a comedy. A "botanist" that barely knows how to plant a potato? Numerous days, weeks, months go by, and no single thing changes in the "earthlings" appearances... Aerial shots of Damon's vehicles moving on Mars, creating dust clouds behind them-- wouldn't happen.... ??? WTF.

I don't know, you can really pull a lot of these things out of thin air if you want it enough. E.g., *Racist* because it portrays a young black male stealing a pen from an upstanding white guy.*

Dan, I like you. And agree with most of what you say. But this is fucking ridiculous and a bit of a stretch. Nothing else to write about?

I'm an old broad, a feminist, and a woman who works in a male-dominated corporate, STEM industry. Like Dan, I also saw The Martian last night. Unlike Dan, the pen-click scene didn't remotely hit my finely tuned sense of institutionalized misogyny. (Also, unlike Dan, I don't love Wiig.)

I did, however, like The Martian very much and had only one glaring irritant. With so much realistic detail given to the sets and props, so much budget going into a truly A-list cast, and so much care going into Space Program propaganda, why oh why, then did the music director pick a series of songs that runs like the playlist of a second rate high-school reunion DJ? A soundtrack that didn't so much indicate one of the character's "terrible taste in music" as it did fill the theater with the lowest common musical denominator.

I thought that the interaction with the clicky pen had more to do with the relationship between Vincent and Annie; it was already apparent that the two of them were close enough to joke with each other, and in that scene Vincent seemed amused at Annie's mild displeasure at random-science-guy bursting into the room to give a demonstration. His clicky-pen thing seemed intended to poke fun at her suddenly representing Mars. Given that she was never undermined or insulted due to her gender, and given that this moment disnt undermine her, this didn't seem sexist to me.

I think we should all just count our blessings that nobody got raped.

Yes, I was annoyed by how toned down both Annie and Mindi's characters were compared to the badasses they are in the book. I was also annoyed by how Venkat Kapoor became Vincent and stopped being Indian.

@23/Bev...
Why not dust clouds? Mars has an atmosphere. It's not the Moon. Sorry for man'splaining.

The problem here is that many of y'all are under the mistaken impression The Martian was shot with the geeks who read the book in mind, when really it was shot precisely with people who wouldn't be caught dead reading the book in mind.

I think we are all forgetting the most important (and interesting) part of this entire story. It's about an (one) astronaut marooned on Mars and how that astronaut handles it. The other characters are subordinate and simply cardboard cutouts anyway. It's about "The Martian", period.

@21

Contact and Gravity had women as leads. Not sure if Gravity was a "Hollywood" film or an indie, but it had two A-Listers.

Do you get tired of being outraged over fucking everything Dan? Or is there an outrage potion that recharges your outrage mana pool in between each action?

I saw the movie, and the scene was more jarring that they used common knowledge about gravity assist that has been known since the 1960s, as some new discovery.

I can see your point Dan. It would be funnier if he click the pen off the head of NASA’s head.

I had a problem with lots of the science fiction in the movie, to basic outdoor safety skills. Like in any sandstorm or whiteout, one either follows a line, like nursery school kids on an outing, or the group is roped up. (What is the point of Mark Watney wearing a harness in the movie in the first place if he doesn’t use it?)

The Hab wouldn’t be out in the open like this, because Mark Watney would probably die of a sarcoma or leukemia in a year. Mars Atmosphere is 100 times less dense than the earth’s atmosphere, and there is not much to filter out gamma radiation. The Hab would most likely be in a cave.

My big pet peeve was totally ignoring how longer the astronauts were traveling to and from Mars, they were risking more getting hit by gamma rays in space.

I think the scene after this clip was the worst/most sexist part of the film. I think right after this part was when all the men in the room discussed how the plan was going to work while Wiig's character just asked a bunch of questions. It would have been nice if she contributed more to the conversation than "Why?", "How?", and "I don't understand?", while the men explained it to her. I understand it was a device to explain the plan to the audience, but it would have been refreshing to see a male character ask all the ditzy questions for once.

She's the PR head - her job is to ask why, how, and I don't understand so she can break down the science into a basic understanding that she can then present to a wider audience outside of NASA. She's supposed to be the middle person who has enough understanding of the science and enough understanding of the concerns of the lay people to translate between the two different audiences (exactly like this entire scene was meant to break it down barney style for your average movie viewer).

It's not sexism, it's literally her job title. If Commander Lewis or Johanssen were in the room, it's clear it wouldn't have needed explaining.

There's a bit of a counter point to this on Hermes when Vogel has to go get Johanssen's help because he wants to open a picture from his family, but doesn't understand computers at a level that allows him to see what is going on. So, Johanssen goes ahead and breaks it all down for him.

You have to try really hard to find ways to have your feelings hurt. Tiring for you. Tiring for us.

You raise a point about the Bechdel test that's always bothered me. When the test says the female characters must "talk about something other than a man" does that mean "talking about a man in a romantic/sexual context" or just "talking about any other human being who identifies as male"? Because if the conversation between the two women can't be about any male human being, that eliminates a ton of perfectly intelligent, non-sexist conversation topics. Like here. The plot of this movie kind of necessitates talking about a man. Should there be more female characters? Probably. Would it make sense for them to have a conversation that doesn't revolve around Matt Damon's character? Not really.

There's another point when Kapoor attempts a press release and it ends with Montrose stating that he will not be appearing on TV again. He doesn't have the knowledge or experience to handle the situation delicately. I think this shows that it's clearly Montrose's domain and she is the subject matter expert when it comes to public relations.

The character in the movie is portrayed as an unlikable individual who is not very bright and in over their head who is in a position of authority and responsibility despite being woefully unqualified. But because she is a woman, you, the audience, are not allowed to criticize her or feel vindication when her uppance finally comes because of #HashtagOUTRAGE!!!

Classic fucking Dan Savage material right there.

Dan, I agreed with you completely until I realized you weren't talking about the "Council of Elrond" scene. How was is that all those men in the room knew who Elrond was, but not the one woman? A woman working for NASA, surrounded by scientists and geeks and nerds who have all read or at least watched the Lord of the Rings, and somehow she has never even watched the movies. Completely "old boys club", with a dig on why girls don't belong.

The clicking of the pen didn't even register for me.

@Alison Cummins, #17

What a moron you are - or this pathetic rule is. Let's just sacrifice the plot entirely to abide by the rules. Better yet, let's have no female characters, then we surely can't fail. Think I'd prefer that just because it'd annoy you.

epsilon @44,

That’s nice, dear.

That scene pissed me off. I turned to my boyfriend and said that id have snatched that pen out of his hand so fast he'd have been lucky to still have a hand. No, don't touch a colleague at work. No, don't touch a woman uninvited. And NO, Don't touch a female colleague by whacking her in the forehead with an object. These are basic kindergarten rules : don't hit, don't touch. These boundaries are twice as important in a male dominated workplace where women have long had to strive for respect. That so many people don't see how disrespectful and problematic that is shows people have to keep making a stand. Thanks, Dan.

@42 During the" Council of Elrond" scene I couldn't get over the fact that they had An Actual Member of the Fellowship in the room talking about it. Sean Bean. Hilarious.

lol @46, and you think that THAT is appropriate workplace behavior? Not only would you be escalating but you would be assisting the intent of your coworker. At the very least you might expect to go it alone on future project (i.e., no help from your colleague) if you choose such a hardline reaction. The appropriate thing to do would be to keep your calm and talk it over with your boss... And that has nothing to do with gender, btw. What if a man grabbed a pen out of your hands cuz he decided you offended him? Just sayin'.

...but you would be 'accessing' the intent....

Female here, *pantomiming jerking my imaginary penis*, "pssshhh".

We won't ever send a (hu)manned mission to Mars. Any attempt by this current culture will result in endless battle about the diversity of the doomed participants, and the sheer number of indignant tweets and FB over some pilot's offhand joke during takeoff will cause a fatal lack of mission morale and group cohesion.

Biggest collection of whining bores on the internet, beating out some savage (lulz) competition in doing so. Well done.

"Now Ridley Scott is a genius and God rip off my fingers for presuming to tell Ridley Scott how to make a movie."

Apparently someone never saw Prometheus.

@52. Here to please.
The rule where women don't talk about men. I'm guessing they could be talking about something important, like, does this table really exist.
Or, how long was your first labour.
Or, aren't these lights harsh, does nothing for one's complexion.

I feel like they treated the head of NASA with just as much nonchalance as Kristin Wiig's character - he didn't react much at all until the end, where he finally sent Donald Glover's character on his way. I did not at all read it as a sexist moment where the woman was expected to just accept that behavior - it was consistent with her character that she would allow that ridiculous situation to continue while they made their point. I did not at all get the sense that is Wiig had been a man, the situation would've played out any differently.

Pen to the forehead? The least of their problems: http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archi…. Would love to see you talk about this on the Lovecast.

Pen to the forehead = least of their problems: http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archi…
Would love to hear you talk about this on the lovecast.

ooops. thought the first one didn't go through ...

I haven't seen the film (and probably won't)--but that film clip where Donald Glover describes looping the ship around Mars for a "gravity boost," that's what NASA had Apollo 13 do, to gain enough velocity to return to earth. Instead of turning around, Apollo 13 continued around the moon.....Not to take anything away from Glover's character...but it's not like he was any kind of creative genius there.....

The pen gesture was rude and unprofessional - something you might get away with if you were close friends with a coworker - but sexist? The pen tap wasn't done because Montrose was a woman, and didn't in anyway demean her over her gender. The male head of NASA ("Teddy") was treated in a similarly dismissive fashion before Montrose.

Both Teddy and Montrose were the uptight targets of jokes based on their dignity and rank, not gender.

The pen gesture was rude and unprofessional - something you might get away with if you were close friends with a coworker - but sexist? The pen tap on the forehead wasn't done because Montrose was a woman, and didn't in anyway demean her over her gender. The male head of NASA ("Teddy") was treated in a similarly dismissive fashion before Montrose.

Both Teddy and Montrose were the uptight targets of jokes based on their dignity and rank, not gender.

Dan's often had kind of a blind spot with women. This post reeks of overcompensation. Like others, I really don't see sexism here--and I say this as someone with a PhD that focused on gender issues.

Definitely having major carnal interest in Donald Glover over everyone else. Matt who????

Hi Dan, I do like you. I also disagree with you, sometimes more than others. Here's a deeper view of my comments. Today I saw THE MARTIAN 3D at the Cinerama on 4th. That's after reading the books months ago and seeing the clip you referenced. Instead of looking at the single transaction and screaming sexism. Why don't we look at the context within the entire movie? Each person can be only one gender. And yes, each of us at different times are subordinates to others of differing gender. Even mocked for being subordinate at times. But when you look at the entire movie you will see the top dog is a white guy. AND he's nothing but a tired bureaucrat. He's obviously powerless. Nothing to envy. The second in command is a black guy. He is the one with power at NASA on earth. The Kristen Wiig character that you mentioned. Well, she's just a flunky. Maybe a high flying flunky, but a flunky none the less. Oh, she's female too. Does that make it sexist? Well, keep in mind that the commander of the Mars Mission on the ship is a woman. And not a wimpy barbie looking to a strong male for protection either. She's strong and tough, yet still a real woman and represents her individuality in her decisions. She's definitely in charge and we are never confused on that. There are a lot of other characters. How about the Asian scientist that is the voice of reason. Even the Chinese government that offers to help NASA succeed? There is a white guy that is also a flunky holding a clip board and another white woman on board the ship (what was her role?) but she accomplished something meaningful to the team. What about the african american male who actually comes up with the solution at NASA? So you see, each person has their role and each person has a gender. Nobody has all roles and nobody, or few, cross both genders. Although it's not within the text, I see no reason some were not gay and/or transgender. What exactly are we all supposed to look like to make a movie socially representative? So please, reassess your belief that the scene was sexist in context with the entire movie. You can identify with whom you choose, but I saw a variety of people with power and knowledge across the gender and race scale. And a variety of people contributing to the project. My final comment is that the movie won't make as much sense to people that don't read the book first. It seems to be a synopsis of the situation. And it's about the astronaut. A.K.A. THE MARTIAN.

I've worked in Corporate PR my entire career, specifically in the Aerospace industry. That was my favorite scene in the whole movie. As a non-science professional constantly having to learn just enough about technical things to be dangerous and at all times trying to get engineers to speak plain English, the real point of that scene was that all of the science guys in the room were geeking out of Lord of the Rings and she was sick of always having to be the layperson - I found the pen thing to just be an underscoring of her annoyance with them putting her in the positive of always having to translate everything from nerd into English. I've been in that exact situation dozens of times in the past 16 years, and her dialogue, and reading of it, was spot on.

So as you go on and on about how the scene was degrading to this particular role and roles for women in general.. but the advertisements on this site in between your paragraphs of ranting, have women half naked in skanky lingerie, how hypocritical can you and your people be. Pff!

Oh and you should really chill out ... it's just a movie!